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Whaler Offline OP
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So these are some questions that reflect my feelings of being short-changed by my wife. I just intend to ask these questions, when my wife gets a little too intense. My intent is to level the intensity, with the ideas of Love and Marriage.

If you want to throw something of mine away, let's agree on a location for those items for me to review.

You don't seem intersted in marital relations, so I am not sure why you want to stay married?

You don't seem interested in family chores like dishes, shopping, Laundry or taking out the trash, so why do you want to stay married?

Does not seem like ther ismuch love going on right now. Are you soure you are interested in remaining married?

You feel POJA does not apply to money you want to spend, but it applies to money I want to spend. Marriage just makes conflicts.

You want to rescue our college age son, rather than build responsibility, so how is our marriage helping our son build resonsibility?

I am not feeling Love from you, and it seems that Love is of no interest to you, so why stay married?

It does not seem that you are concerned with the boundaries of my posessions, which is a major element of trust in a marriage, as ownership is joint in a marriage.

Since we do not agree on how to handle your input on my interests in retaining certain posessions, our marriage has a maor dysfunction, because joint ownsership is the basic law of all marriages.

Perhaps we can have a contest to see who can spend more money outside of POJA?

How does being a fuss budget build responsibility for our callege age son?

Which of your bad habits do you see in our son?

Ideas?

<small>[ August 18, 2004, 08:52 PM: Message edited by: Whaler ]</small>

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W FAILS TO RELIABLY SUPPORT MY FRIENDSHIPS

My wife is sometimes overly giving, propitiation, and extending the implication of close friendship that is beyond what I think is apporopriate,

Then sometimes my wife refuses to accompany me on invitations to friends houses or occasions, to which her presence would be appropriate and suportive.

I am hesitant to keep up, maintain or make new friends, because W is unrealiable, W is further unreliable in the idea of being unfaithful to me, in situations where the couple is a swingining couple, or the man has freedom to have affairs, or the marirage is otherwise partly open.

My idea of marriage, was that the wife should be a vehicle through which social realtions with old and new friends would be enhanced.

Now, I just try to have as few numbers of guys in the picture who I have to watch, to avoid W cheating, or otherwise making me look or feel like a fool.

My wife often stays out late, without telling me where she is going. 11 PM or 12 AM are not uncommon arrival times home. Usually I believe she is visting her mother, her brother, or niece or church people. I don't really thing aloty is going on. Just nonetheless, it would be nice of her to just let me know what she is doing. She could just leave me a quick messageof her iteinerary for the evening.

Ideas? Sympathy? Been there?

<small>[ August 21, 2004, 06:04 PM: Message edited by: Whaler ]</small>

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So I asked W to go out to lunch, so we could talk ab out some issues.

W replied that we should try to save money. Well I had not asked for an expensive restaurant, and W is unable to really discuss problems except in a very few settings. So I don't know of any other reliable forum for solving problems.

I am just trying to think out some effective phrasing, yet not overly sarcastic responses:

Your decision about not going to lunch is putting stress on the relationship.

So you would prefer to abandon work on the relationship, in order to save a little money?

So you feel that ther is some gift you can give me, later, that will make up for the neglect you are dishing out now?

W refuses to give timetabales of what plans she has coming up, and prefers secrecy and surprise, perhaps to avoid my input.

"What events are you planning, that affect me, or the household atmosphere, for which you have not told me all the details?

I am looking for phrases to fully inform W that her actions really are pushing me away. Most marriages end with one partner having an affair. I am trying to put my disatisfaction in clear terms, because I really don't see that W cares. This places me at serous risk, and I am trying to be responsible.

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</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">- You don't seem intersted in marital relations, so I am not sure why you want to stay married?
- You don't seem interested in family chores like dishes, shopping, Laundry or taking out the trash, so why do you want to stay married?
- Does not seem like ther ismuch love going on right now. Are you soure you are interested in remaining married?
- So you would prefer to abandon work on the relationship, in order to save a little money?
- So you feel that ther is some gift you can give me, later, that will make up for the neglect you are dishing out now?
- "What events are you planning, that affect me, or the household atmosphere, for which you have not told me all the details?
- I am not feeling Love from you, and it seems that Love is of no interest to you, so why stay married?
- It does not seem that you are concerned with the boundaries of my posessions, which is a major element of trust in a marriage, as ownership is joint in a marriage.
- Since we do not agree on how to handle your input on my interests in retaining certain posessions, our marriage has a maor dysfunction, because joint ownsership is the basic law of all marriages.
- Perhaps we can have a contest to see who can spend more money outside of POJA?
- Which of your bad habits do you see in our son?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why not just divorce her right now and save time? With comments like these, it’ll happen sooner or later.
If you want a divorce/separation, then talk about it. If you don’t want one, then don’t talk about it.

You feel POJA does not apply to money you want to spend, but it applies to money I want to spend. Marriage just makes conflicts.
No, marriage does not cause conflicts. People not knowing how to POJA cause conflicts.

You want to rescue our college age son, rather than build responsibility, so how is our marriage helping our son build resonsibility?
You are talking about your son, not the marriage.

How does being a fuss budget build responsibility for our callege age son?
Um, it doesn’t. Why do you think she is being a "fussbudget"? Shouldn't we be concerned with where our money goes?

My wife is sometimes overly giving, propitiation, and extending the implication of close friendship that is beyond what I think is apporopriate,
What? Does this mean you think she has male friendships, which you think are inappropriate because she gets too close to them?

I am hesitant to keep up, maintain or make new friends, because W is unrealiable, W is further unreliable in the idea of being unfaithful to me, in situations where the couple is a swingining couple, or the man has freedom to have affairs, or the marirage is otherwise partly open.
Why do you try to maintain friendships with people who think this is okay?

Now, I just try to have as few numbers of guys in the picture who I have to watch,
Why would you have ANY guys in the picture, who you feel you would have to watch?

My wife often stays out late, without telling me where she is going. 11 PM or 12 AM are not uncommon arrival times home. Usually I believe she is visting her mother, her brother, or niece or church people. I don't really thing aloty is going on. Just nonetheless, it would be nice of her to just let me know what she is doing. She could just leave me a quick messageof her iteinerary for the evening.
She could but she doesn’t.

Your decision about not going to lunch is putting stress on the relationship.
Why? You can’t talk anywhere else except at lunch?

<small>[ October 12, 2004, 03:13 PM: Message edited by: Chris -CA123 ]</small>

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Dear Chris,

Thanks for the responses.

My wife and I went to lunch today, and discussed a number of issues. I have not found a better format for discussing problems and updating attempts at solutions, than taking my wife to lunch. What situations do you suggest for problem-solving dicussions?

It seems that I need to put my wife's back against the wall, to get her to respond. So I need to create the impression that I am ready to divorce W, for her to listen to what I desire, or what problems are affecting me. The several quations I raised in terms of divorce, seem to be the only format that can catch my wife's attention. What other motivating factors or limits might you suggest as creating a sense of urgency?

The phrases I used tday, were, "What are you willing to do about my feeling unappreciated? About my feeling disrespected?"

To create some interest for W to consider going out to lunch today, I slept in the basement last night, until about 6 AM. When I got into bed, I was a little reserved, but respectful and asked her if she could go to lunch today. W had refused last week. She said for me to call her.

Our college age son is living at home, and I felt he was less than respectgful to me recently. Sinch my Wive often undercuts what I might say to my son, I told her that she was in charge of my son, and that I would prefer he moved out. But that I was leaving that up to her. I really don't feel like listening to my son's lip in my house any longer. If he wants to talk about things, he can invite me out someplace. But in the house, i am just being reservedly friendly. W agreed that she was being excessively kind to Son, and that he did not have good roomate habits.

I gave her some vacant stares when W said she was feeling shortchanged. The stares were meant to say, "If you want a divorce, you are welcome to a divorce."

W backed down, and seemed to say that she wanted to stay together. So it seems I have an approach for getting the attention of W, for the time being.

Blessings

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What situations do you suggest for problem-solving dicussions?
You could use life as a problem solving discussion. You don't have to set up a specific time to do it.
You need to learn how to negotiate BEFORE things become a problem that needs to be solved.

You kow how to push your wife's buttons and she knows how to push yours.
When you see something coming up that will be a "problem", do whatever you can to NOT make it a problem.

So I need to create the impression that I am ready to divorce W, for her to listen to what I desire, or what problems are affecting me.
So you are an firm advocate of the statement, "If you really loved me you would (insert action here)"?

What are you willing to do about my feeling unappreciated? About my feeling disrespected?"
Maybe she's not willing to do anything about it. I suggest you simply state the problem (I feel underappreciated because I do x and you don't say thank you) or (I feel you do not respect me when I do x and that hurts my feelings), then leave it at that.

I gave her some vacant stares when W said she was feeling shortchanged.
Yowzaa! An opening the size of the G R A N D C A N Y O N and you completely missed it.!
This would have been the PERFECT opportunity for you to say, "Wow! I didn't know you were feeling shortchanged. This is something I will have to pay much more attention to.
How did you feel shortchanged and what specifically can I do to keep you from feeling this way again?"

W backed down, and seemed to say that she wanted to stay together. So it seems I have an approach for getting the attention of W, for the time being.
Until she realizes that she does not like or is tired of being challenged & threatened.


Have you read anything on this site?
I can't see much of what you have done is respectful at all of your wife or her feelings, regardless of what she has done or how she acts towards you. Your post screams ,"What can I get out of this without considering any of my wife's feelings?"

A good book I will suggest to you is, "We Can Work It Out: How to Solve Co... and Strengthen Your Love for Each Other" by Clifford Notarius

The title is big but it teaches you how to talk to each other and get a firm understanding of what the other person is truly saying. I think it also fits in very well with Marriage Builders ideas.

Also, read the links in my signature.

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??? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

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Chris:

I must agree with your last post. Just in reading Whaler's post here and in Emotional Needs forum, I see a lot of disrespect for his W as well. From this thread I see even more that I find hard to sympathize with him.

Whaler:

Have you told the entire story. I seems to me that your post is terribly one-sided. And it seems to me, from the read of it, that you appear to be demanding of your W to act in certain roles that you assign to her, not roles that she desires to play.

I also read your last post wherein you said that you must get your W's back against the wall and </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I gave her some vacant stares when W said she was feeling shortchanged....W backed down, and seemed to say that she wanted to stay together. So it seems I have an approach for getting the attention of W, for the time being. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It seems to me that this approach is outlined and filled with intimidation. Why do you feel you need to intimidate her in order to get her attention? Does she not have a right to her feelings without feeling as though she should be threatened into compliance? Why should your W back down from stating how she feels? She said she feels shortchanged. Is that not a valid feeling by her. Why did you feel the need to stare at her blankly and then go on to say that "she backed down" -- in what I perceive to be a somewhat triumphant tone.

I do not think I can support/sympathize with you here Whaler. I read your other thread as well and from what I am reading, it appears that you are missing some key ENs for your W and you are making disprespectful judgments and demands of her to get your needs met, regardless of what you are or are not doing for her. And it seems you are only interested in discussing what YOU want and how SHE is going to make YOU feel better. What if she doesn't want to do it? Why not initiate divorce? Have you considered the fact that you may not be meeting her ENs? She stated she was shortchanged and you just stared at her. Why? Did you hope she would return the conversation back to how she can meet your needs and forget about her own? So if she's feeling shortchanged and needs something from you, your solution is divorce? I am only reiterating what I am reading on your post.

Chris:

I think you hit on some very valid points. It seems Whaler has disappeared from view for now. I agree with what you wrote Chris. As stated before, Whaler's other post reads similar to this one, but is more specific about his wife hosting his social gatherings at his house. Nothing is said about his behaviour, or lack thereof, has or may have contributed to the current state of the marriage.

My posts are usually not this harsh, but I agree with you Chris that this screams "what can I get out of this without considering my W's feelings?"

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<img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> Whaler,
got any comments?

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Dear Chris,

I feel that I do quite a bit to make deposits in the Love Bank, and avoid Love Busters. I have identified some of my wife's needs, such as Admiration and Touch, and, and I make an effort to follow the Love Diet, giving frequent sweet nothings. There is passion in the marriage.

One difficulty is that passion can be positve or negative and W has not found much control on the negatative passions, as she expresses her ideas and threatens adverse decisions.

Dear Diamonds J,

It is true that I do not iusually post the full feelings of my wife's Love Busters.

I do not deny my wife's right to express her feelings, and I listen politely with understanding. My wife has not learned to disagree witout being disagreeable. However, when W decides to act outside POJA, then I feel shortchanged, as I try keep myslef within POJA.

My wife is not so very unreasonable in some of her ideas and decisions, and maybe I should abonadon POJA, as an ideal, and just do what I feel is reasonable and just expect W to do things within reason, rather than stick to POJA.

Backing my wife down through intimidation was one of your observations. I don't threaten my wife with adverse consequences, as we are arguing about issues. I do assert my option of withdrawal of my presence when W uses too many Love Busters, insults and threats to me. I feel that I am simply asking for a civil tone. I have not previously explained fully that my wife expresses her ideas in a threatenting, insulting manner, and it is not her ideas that I have a problem with, but rather with the vitriolic manner in which she expresses her ideas in disdain for my opinions. Disagreeing agreeably is a skill which my wife has not yet developed. My wife is a Scorpio, and fits some of the Scorpio traits, for anyone that might be familiar with the Scorpio approach,

Thanks for posting your ideas. I am still working on getting a better aproach and understanding of my marriage. I hope to create a better atmosphere in the home.

Blkessings

<small>[ November 01, 2004, 10:19 AM: Message edited by: Whaler ]</small>


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