My WH has had an A off and on for 2 years. I have done everything to try to save the M. I am 6 weeks pregnant and have a 18month DD. When I told my WH about the baby, he immediately flipped out, called me every name in the book, said terrible things about me,started throwing things and insisted on an abortion. It ended with a call to the police.

That is when I started to see my WH for what he is. I think I have tried to see him the way I want to see him, the way a H should be. Now I am seeing him for all the hurt he has caused me, for all the terrible things he has said to me, and for wanting to kill our beautiful baby. He is selfish and immature. I went to an attorney and have started the proceedings for a D. I just need to sign the papers and i am scared.

In my heart, I know I will be better off without him, but I still think I love him. He has stated that he wants out for at least 6 months, but has never filed. I am tired of the waiting and the hurt that has went with it. I know that I need to move on with my life. I have will have two children that I need to be strong for.

I guess my question is --do you ever know when it is right? Am I wrong for being unsure at times?? I always thought it would be him that filed, but he isn't the one hurting. He will openly discuss the D and tell me it is what he wants. He doesn't see us ever working and doesn't want to try. How often do I need to hear that??

Please i am looking for friends that are living or have lived what I am. I need a support system that will understand my feelings and help me. I have a wonderful family and great friends, but none of them have ever had a D, so no one really understands what I am feeling. Please talk to me

Coolduck

I'm here, too...

I have reached the end of my roope, as well. Fogman has been moved out almost 5 months with no end in sight. The only difference is that he doesn't want a D (which boggles my mind to no end). I am ready, or nearly so. I hate the man WH has become. He thinks exposure killed off any chances of him coming back. I am numb and don't really care too much anymore.

I was preggo too when he started his A. He actually blames the baby (what a freakin jerk) for much of my treatment of him. I admit, I went ballistic at times, and felt like crap every single day of that pregnancy. But I look at my DD and see nothing but God's glory and perfection in her.

I think your own fog has lifted, Coolduck. The M you miss is gone and will never be back (good riddance, I say). But is there still a chance at a new and improved version?? I'm thinking Plan A/B to the max here.

Some say that love must be dead to file, but I'm not convinced. On the other hand, a Dis not necassarily the answer to your dreams either. You will always have to deal with him b/c of the kids.

I'm appalled at his reaction to your new baby. Totally heartless and foggified! PUKE!

I've talked to some of my D friends and they all took about a year to really be sure of the decision. A D takes awhile to go through, it is not a quick fix. I'm still wavering after about one month. We are even going to MC with SH now, so who knows what will happen?????

Sometimes we wake up and can picture ourselves better off, but then those pesky feelings of love and longing for this A sh*t to just end already come creeping in.

I hope more opinions will be coming from some vets because there are several newbies here on the verge of this decision.

Thank you so much for the response. It helps to know that you are not alone. Perhaps misery does love company.

I have lived this for almost 2 years. I plan A to death. I was so unsuccessful at plan b that I got pregnant. I know that a D doesn't take away the pain or make things different/perfect. WH is now saying that OW has nothing to do with this. It is the fact that are not right together. That I bring out the worse in him (an explosive side). He doesn't ever see things being right they never were. i am so tired of hearing this.

It does make me laugh though that OW does not yet know about the baby. He had nerve to say to me what good would that do. I guess love does protect. I can't wait until she finds out. I guess it wasn't over with me like she was told. He had no problem having SF with me in Aug.

If I wait until I no longer love him, which if all of this keeps up it will happen, then I will watch more of my life go by. I am 31 with an 18mon DD and a new baby on the way. I am not necessarily prime meat for the market, but I am smart, have a good job and I have looks. If I let him continue to waste my life, I may never find that prince charming I know that I deserve. I feel that if he hasn't woke up in those 2 years and saw what a wonderful person I am. He never will. I was willing to forgive and i gave the M everything I had. I may have showed anger and did some things that weren't necessarily right, but I can still hold my head with respect. something that he can't say.

Dear Cool Duck,
I am so, so sorry about what you're having to go through. I cannot imagine going through all this with a baby and one on the way. I pray that God will give you strength.
I knew it was time to D when I just could not emotionally take the betrayal anymore. XWH would not give up the other woman. Like you, I saw him for what he was, even though I still loved him for what he had been when we married.
He is remarried, and my 3 kids go to visit him at least once a month. They like going there, and as far as I know he is happy with the OW, now his wife. It has been a year and a half since the D, and I am doing much better.
I will keep you in my prayers, and please reach out to God...Find a good support group and lean on your friends. Time helps....
Blessings,
KK

coolduck -

You are perfectly normal. You will get through this. If my husband ever wanted me to abort my child, that would be the end of him.

I think it is best that you avoid husband right now.

Coolduck-

You will know divorce is right when you have done everything you possibly can and it hasn't changed anything. I believe it is at this point when you truly believe that this has happened that you can finally start to let go and be at peace with your decision. Reaching this point however is an individual decision and can be filled with waves of uncertainty. You are very normal in your feelings.

In her book The Language of Letting Go, which deals with codependency, which I definately was, Melodie Beattie (spelling?) talks about the difference in the difficulty of letting go of the actual person versus the dream of what the person and your relationship with them can be. I know that's where I was and it sounds like you are too. That too is perfectly normal as most of us don't marry just anyone. We marry someone we love and put all our hopes and dreams into the relationship. When we are faced with the harsh reality of things it seems our true inner being holds on to the dreams we have invested in this person and that is the hardest thing to let go.

I can truly relate to where you are at. I got pregnant with our fourth child when my XH and I were at a very rocky period in our marriage. When I told him he reacted the same way as your WH. It made me absolutely ill to think he could feel this way about a child of ours and request the things he was requesting. Of course I refused to abort and he was forced to deal with it.

At the time I was completely unaware of his affair. He left when I was three months pregnant to pursue his affair and spent the next six months denouncing the pregnancy claiming the baby wasn't his, etc. I have never been unfaithful a day in my life. It was the worst time of my life. What should have been a joyous time had turned into a living hell. Anyway, I kept holding on to the dream that he would prove to be someone other than the man he was showing himself to be.

When our daughter was born he announced he was filing for divorce, to publicly be with the OW, but I would have to wait until he could afford it. He simply wanted me to know as he was done sneaking around and felt that if his intentions were out in the open there was nothing wrong. At this point I broke and filed for divorce, but even then I wasn't sure I was doing the right thing.

It took six months for our divorce to be finalized and although I became more and more sure I was doing the right thing, I still had moments of doubt right up to the day. In my head I knew I was doing the right thing, but my heart kept hoping.

Well, the divorce was finalized two and three quarters years ago and I can honestly say that I definately did the right thing. My XH is still the same person. About the only thing that has changed is that he is an alcoholic who is currently not drinking. He married the OW this June and as far as I am concerned she can have him. He actually is a far better parent however then he ever was when we were married, not what I'd like him to be still, but far better. As for myself, I am so much happier. I have learned that I deserve far better than my XH ever gave me and life is good.

I wish you the best of luck. Take care of yourself and those babies. It isn't always easy, but you are capable of doing this on your own. You will have moments of doubt, but things will get better. I am hear to listen if you need me.

Take care and God bless!
K

I am presently in a similar postition. I believe it does come down to doing your best and praying for clarity, then deciding and taking one step at a time. My H has been in denial about our difficulties until one day the thought occurred to him that I might be having an affair. (his refusal to accept responsibility). this was not true. however, he then decided that I wanted a D and made every effort to comply...we have only been together 4 years, married for 2. His whole thing has been basically superficial; as he put it, it wasn't enough to simply adore me (!)...no, sorry, it takes effort and the desire to see things the way they really are and not just how we wnt them to be. He does not have what it takes to make a marriage great. No matter how much I want him to be that person, he is who he is. I am accepting this, feeling the pain and the anger and keeping moving forward.
Please don't look at yourself as damaged goods. Its heartbreaking. Be kind to yourself. I am sick and tired of this attitude in society. Everyone has the potential for beauty in being who they are. I am 43 years old and I refuse to be put out to pasture because some man, one man is rejecting me. We must keep on track in making our own life. Keep your vision of the life you want and then work toward that.

As I was driving home tonight I think perhaps the reason I'm questioning my D decision so much hit me:

Through all our bad times, I've always had hope that "someday" things would be better and that he'd have is life together. I worry about him, his future here, and his eternity.

I knew as long as there was a new day, there was always hope, no matter how bad things may have been when I went to bed at night.

By filing for D, I feel like I've given up hope, not just in my M, but in him as well and that just feels sort of wrong.

LL

Accidentally posted in the wrong thread. sorry.

<small>[ September 13, 2004, 08:29 PM: Message edited by: greengables ]</small>

As you can tell I have been very confused about the D. Well I finally got everything in order, saw an attorney and felt I was as ready as I would ever be to move on.

Guess who calls? WH wants to know what went wrong with us. He's missed me. He wants me to put off filing and would like to start "dating" and taking things slow. He said he will make the phone call to OW telling her it is over. WH is not a letter person and I really want to hear for myself how she responds.

Problem -- I am scared to death to take the plunge again. WH has been back and forth so much. How do I know what's real? WH is still very nervous about the baby, which is what helped led to the A in the first place when I was pregnant with DD. I will not have him decide to leave for b**** OW again when I am 6 months preg. When I said this to him, he said that OW doesn't want him back if he comes back to me.

Next problem -- OW doesn't know about baby. I am afraid that he thinks she will dump him when she finds out about the baby because then she will know that we were still together. I concerned that he might lose her so he wants me back.

Overall I'm just scared. I started to feel ok moving on, looking for a new house, talking about D, ect. when he suddenly wants to try. where was he for all the months I was trying? How do I know that I am not setting myself up yet again?
And as much as friends and family love me, they will not be supportive of me giving him another chance, because they have seen all the hurt I have lived.

Hmmmm. I think it is about time to tell the OW that you are now carrying your husband's child. Expose, expose, expose.

Whatever you choose to do, base your decisions on your husband's actions, not just his words. It's a lot easier to talk the talk then to walk the walk. Protect yourself and make him prove himself.

Take care and God bless!
K

Oh my!!! Where to begin. Coolduck & all you other hurting dear ones...especially each of you awesome, protective, loving, MOTHERS! I'm saying a prayer for you right here, right now....

Dear Father in Heaven, holy is Your Name! These are your daughters here who are so seriously hurting!

Father! Wrap them up in your eternally protective loving arms. Do NOT let evil come over them, Please Lord!

Many of them are carrying Your own little ones within them. Give them courage to protect these lives with their very own!

And lastly our Father, they need supernatural wisdom to deal with these crises. You have that wisdom Lord, and you promised if any of us lack wisdom let him ask of God who gives to all men liberally. We're claiming that promise for wisdom in what to do in each of their situations. We pray all of this in the loving, protecting, and saving name of Jesus, AMEN!!!

Folks, I fly jets for a living. I have hundreds of lives who depend upon me to make the right decisions to keep them all alive. God has gifted me with the ability to be cool in crisis, to think logically during trauma & times of Emergency. If you will, please allow me to apply some of this right here, OK?

Many of you are in the biggest Emergency your life has ever been in...so let's just cut to the chase on some of this. Here's the facts I'm looking at:

1. If you're pregnant, you have a life gift from God within you. You are to protect it with your very life! Do NOT let anyone talk you into something you don't want to do. Your WH's are running scared. They now feel trapped into staying in the marriage without a choice due to the kid. That is a ridiculous notion. Take the pressure away. Tell them you aren't sure you even want them to stay at this point, unless decided changes take place. Take CHARGE of this OK?

2. Next fact = EVERYONE goes back & forth during the breakup / divorce process wondering if they're doing the right thing or not. It's NORMAL as others have well said here.

3. Shed the bright sunlight on the Affairs, the cruel words & decisions your WS is/has been making. Don't let anything stay secret any longer from anyone that "counts" in these situations - like OW, crucial family etc. If a man is far enough off of the deep end to attack & threaten his wife when he finds out she's PG, then he's far enough off the deep end for you to take justified EMERGENCY actions to #1) protect yourself and your emotions and children and finances. #2) Seriously question whether you want to remain married to him.

4) God HATES divorce (Malachi 2:16) You know why? Because He HIMSELF IS DIVORCED!!! And there's more divorces for God in the future! (He lost His covering angel Lucifer->Satan in Heaven along with 1/3 of the angels who rebelled. He lost Israel to their choices to divorce Him. He will lose each one who choses to reject His salvation in the end.)

So, God hates it because He knows all too well the rejection, the extreme pain, the utter heartbreak divorce brings. And He doesn't want any of us to experience it if at all possible. But hear this. Divorce is a Biblically legitimate move when certain conditions are met. Namely an unrepented lifestyle of adultery. And an unbelieving spouse who refuses to accept God & then abandons you. Finally in the cases of life-threatening abuse both emotionally and physically.

5) What to do? Enforce your God-given Boundaries! God is not going to be happy with you if you become an emotional doormat here. You've got children both born and unborn to protect. Rise up as a godly Mother and protect them!!! Set limits! Call the shots!! Take charge. If the H won't come around, there's your answer. God will provide better for you - BELIEVE IT! For first of all He will become YOUR HUSBAND!!! That is one of the finest of all Bible promises!

Isaiah 54:
5. For thy Maker is thine husband; the Lord of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called. 6. For the Lord hath called thee as a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit, and a wife of youth, when thou wast refused, saith thy God.

6) Turn your WH over to the Lord God! Let HIM deal with him. God says, "Vengeance is mine, I will repay saith the Lord." God has His awesome ways of getting folks attention BIG TIME! You don't need to fight this battle. Let Him do it for you.

7) You concentrate on doing what's right for you & your kids right now.

My prayers will be with you each one. If you need more of my help, let me know. I'm here for you. I'm in my own rejection pain from my WW, but we're going to make it together folks. God is willing!

My thoughts & Prayers,
High Flight

<small>[ September 15, 2004, 12:53 AM: Message edited by: High Flight ]</small>

Coolduck,
Ten months after our 4th child was born, I had a hysterectomy with repair to bladder, rectum and small intenstine due to childbirth related injury, and I was in the hospital 5 days. One week after coming home, we were arguing about his telling me this woman was calling him, and he punched me and broke my ulna in seven pieces. It was the week before Christmas. I had 1 1/2 hour surgery under general anasthesia three days after Christmas, while still with the catheter bag from the first surgery, and was in a cast or splint until after Christmas. I was still going to hand therapy in April when I called the woman's husband and then he got the truth that they had been having an affair out of her.

Why am I telling you this? People can change. My H's behavior was outrageous. He is working on changing.

There is blather out there that you need to love people as they are because they don't change. Well, we've both needed to change a lot due to this experience, and we both have. It sounds to me like your H hasn't woken up to the fact that he needs to change if he wants to stay married, since you see his behavior as unacceptable. That isn't your fault. Someone once posted the "three Cs" from al-anon: you didn't cause, you can't control, and you can't cure. It's up to your H to decide to be a good H and father. There is nothing you can do about behavior that is outrageous. If he is going to have visitation rights, you might want to try forcing attendance at an anger management group as part of the divorce proceedings. I've read that up to 70 percent of abusive Hs abuse their children.
Cherished

<small>[ September 17, 2004, 04:51 AM: Message edited by: Cherished ]</small>

Thank you so much for all the replys. I am so exhausted after teaching all day and then coming home to an 18MonthDD. Sometimes when I get her to bed, I go too.

WH is a piece of work. I've been looking for the actions to go along with the words and I have seen none. He believes that I am being demanding and bit@hy. Here were the boundries that I finally put down:
1. WH had to call OW with me listening and tell her that it was over. We never even got into the actuals that I wanted him to say.
2. We would start MC and he not move back in until things were better and looking like they were going somewhere. Just taking things slow.

That was it. WH and even my MIL (who I love dearly and has been very supportive) thinks the phone call idea is immature and rude. I don't see how it is. All I want is for OW to know that it is over, that I am pregnant, and that WH really wants to work things out and recognizes that she can no longer be any part of his life. That there will be no more emails, phone calls or even speaking at work. She doesn't even need to know that I am on the phone. Guess who won't do it?? He told me that it is over with OW, which I have heard all the other times when I allowed him back without any boundries. I know Dr. Harley suggests a letter, but my WH is not a letter writer and I thought a phone call would be so much easier. What I am asking isn't crazy is it?????

WH watched DD yesterday while I worked and asked if he could stay for dinner. Since I thought we were supposed to be working on "US' I agreed and while I was cooking we starting talking. That is when it came out that he didn't want to make the phone call. I simply told him to go (no dinner) that we had nothing to talk about. It was either OW or me and I would never share him again. Since he was unable to make the phone call I was assuming that he was chosing her, which was fine, but to get out and expect D papers soon. He was so mad. He said he didn't want a D, but I was being demanding and it would get me no where. He left and I haven't heard from him at all today. Somehow I am calm. I guess I didn't really expect anything this time, so I never allowed myself to get caught up in it.

I need to stick to my guns don't I????? If he can't show this little commitment and sacrifice for me then I am not really losing anything. Right??? Why can't for once he see something in me worth fighting for???

I agree that people can change, but they must really want to. Apperently my DD, baby to come, and I just arn't a strong enough reason.

HighFlight,
Thank you so much for the prayer. I know that there are a lot of Mothers on this board going thru simular situations and it is nice to have a prayer said for us. You did it so beautiful.
As I said before, You're quite a special person

My H called OW in the afternoon on the day he broke my arm to say that he broke my arm when we were arguing about her and "for the sake of our marriage, I can no longer have contact with you."

It wasn't over. He met her for coffee 36 hours later to tell her how "humiliated" he felt for breaking my arm, and she was very sympathetic. Guess what? I wasn't. I was very upset.

I think you are barking up the wrong tree. What you need are actions, not words. Look into extraordinary precautions as described by Harley in Surviving an Affair.

You are making a demand that he make a phone call in your presence. Unless he is committed to no contact, it won't matter. Do you think your being pregnant will matter? I don't think so. I thought his breaking my arm would matter, and it didn't. Maybe there is a way that it can be ended that would be satisfactory to both of you.
The key is that he is committed to it being done and then you work out the details for it being ended. Harley calls an affair an addiction. What matters is accountability, not words.
Cherished

Cherished,
I am so trying to look for actions. I have read Harley's books. First WH can't quit his job. He's the top manager. She is a secretary in on of their offices accross the street. I know it sounds crazy, but jobs are hard to find where we live and he makes great money (that I want if we do D <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" /> )He sees getting her fired or relocated messing with someone's life. Like they didn't mess with mine.

I know another phone call can be made to try to correct the damage, but at least it might cause some damage and at least it would be show of committment. WH won't even do it. WH said to me this last time that he moved out that OW wanted nothing to do with him if he came back to me. Again true-not true. How do you ever really know?

I just feel like nothing that I want or is important to me matters to him. Even when he sees me willing to move on. He will let me go because he won't make a phone call. That doesn't sound like a man that wants me a whole lot, does it?

What would you suggest that I expect??? How do you think things could/should be handled?? I am open to suggestions as long as he has to show commitment
I have fought for 2 years to make this M work. I have allowed him back, believed me, and got hurt. I can't do it anymore.

Don't.

Don't keep doing it anymore.

What you are saying is a sign of personal recovery. Personal dignity should never be sacrificed at the expense of the M.

That said, I was in the same boat as you. He made the call, but she was still across the street in a different building working for the same company. You might consider calling her husband, parents, anybody close to her to tell them that she has been having an affair. That's what I did that finally ended the A because OWH got her to quit.

I would recommend that you call Harley's radio show and ask him. He told me on April 22, 2002 to call the H and that's what I did. Sad but true, he told me the same thing on September 24, 2001, two weeks after the first kiss. I played the tape of the radio show to my H, he got upset and invoked the Policy of Joint Agreement, saying he wouldn't have contact with OW if I didn't call her H.

Harley's radio show on broadcasts in the Twin Cities metro area. Dr. Harley and his wife take calls as a priority but often have time for e-mails because not enough calls come in.

Honestly, I don't know how you could stand so many false starts. When the A came out, my H said he made a commitment to not talk with her again. He did, once, and told me six months later. Please don't tolerate what is intolerable.
Cherished

<small>[ September 19, 2004, 08:21 AM: Message edited by: Cherished ]</small>

coolduck -

Stick to your guns. That is how you can tell if they are serious about working on the marriage. If he refuses to write or call OW and tell her NC, then he is just not ready to give you what you need.

So don't give in now. Your requests are very reasonable.