There are over 100 forms of good birth control out there, did you forget to use it?

Here is what i get from your post.

Your husband did not want children but you went ahead, as unstable as your marriage was, and got pregnant. Twice.

He was not happy the first time. He was more unhappy the second time.

(This man did not learn to use condoms with you even if you told him you were on the pill, perhaps he trusted you with the birth control)

Now, he will end up paying around 150K in child support. He is not happy about it.

What is worse, the kids won't have a dad around to raise them. It will be hard on the kids.

Why did you do this? He was having an affair!!!! (which is terrible and causes you a lot of pain)

He told you he wanted a divorce! So, you get pregnant????? That seems so selfish to me.

<small>[ September 19, 2004, 06:12 PM: Message edited by: baba2 ]</small>

************It does make me laugh though that OW does not yet know about the baby. He had nerve to say to me what good would that do. I guess love does protect. I can't wait until she finds out. I guess it wasn't over with me like she was told. He had no problem having SF with me in Aug.
*************** I was so unsuccessful at plan b that I got pregnant. *******************If I let him continue to waste my life, I may never find that prince charming I know that I deserve.*****

With all this being said by you, I agree with Baba2 and I think you are very immature. You H had an A, yes but you got pregnant and can't wait for the OW to find out. Why? Just because you want to hurt her or your H? Why not think of a solution to this mess that you helped create(getting pregnant) instead of playing games. And your "boundaries" as you call them, are ultimatums, not boundaries.

If you think he is wasting your life and he is not "the prince charming that you deserve" then maybe the D is right. I feel bad for the children though.

baba2,
Before you open you mouth perhaps you should ask for more info. I am an extremely intelligent woman that would never do something stupid. First, I was on the pill, which for your information is only 99% effective. The dr said it can and does happen. It probably didn't help that I was extremely sick with stress and probably threw up a few pills and didn't realize it. Second, we had sex twice during the month that I conceived and he initiated both. So I must be some master planner.
Perhaps the selfish person was the one that wanted the D and then wanted to take me and my DD out for my birthday and decided to stay the night. So selfish that he never asked if I was still on the pill, which I was.
My children will never suffer. A baby is a miracle and perhaps God was really thinking this one out.


As for everyone else,
I am sticking to my guns for the NC phone call. We talked about it today. I think he may go for it, but I am not holding my breath. I am giving him until Tuesday. Hopefully he will make the right decision, but either way I know I will be moving on and I will be fine. I would like to think that he has finally got out of the fog and will give us a chance. I think his children deserve it.
I know that the phone call can always be reversed and yes that is a fear that I live with. But at least it is a start. I've asked for it before. Also I think it has to make OW think. Right??? I know that Cherished thinks I should quit and part of me agrees, but i have fought so hard for this and if he really is coming around shouldn't I at least wait and see?? D is my only other option. One that I know I will do if I don't see actions this time.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by coolduck:
<strong> baba2,
Before you open you mouth perhaps you should ask for more info. I am an extremely intelligent woman that would never do something stupid. First, I was on the pill, which for your information is only 99% effective. The dr said it can and does happen. It probably didn't help that I was extremely sick with stress and probably threw up a few pills and didn't realize it. Second, we had sex twice during the month that I conceived and he initiated both. So I must be some master planner.
Perhaps the selfish person was the one that wanted the D and then wanted to take me and my DD out for my birthday and decided to stay the night. So selfish that he never asked if I was still on the pill, which I was.
My children will never suffer. A baby is a miracle and perhaps God was really thinking this one out.


As for everyone else,
I am sticking to my guns for the NC phone call. We talked about it today. I think he may go for it, but I am not holding my breath. I am giving him until Tuesday. Hopefully he will make the right decision, but either way I know I will be moving on and I will be fine. I would like to think that he has finally got out of the fog and will give us a chance. I think his children deserve it.
I know that the phone call can always be reversed and yes that is a fear that I live with. But at least it is a start. I've asked for it before. Also I think it has to make OW think. Right??? I know that Cherished thinks I should quit and part of me agrees, but i have fought so hard for this and if he really is coming around shouldn't I at least wait and see?? D is my only other option. One that I know I will do if I don't see actions this time. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Coolduck ~ From San Francisco tonight!! The walk by the bay was tremendously beautiful!!! The world seems sooooo OK, when viewed from afar & casually.

Then we all come back down to the reality of our sin condition we find ourselves entangled in like quick sand. Slowly, but surely sucking us down, down, down.....Thanks be to God there is a way out!!!! His name is Jesus!

Well, here's my take for what it's worth:

1) I'm going to take your explanation of the birth control measures at face value. I'm going to believe you for what you said happened.

2) What does God want you to do? Seriously! He knows far more than we do. Have you placed this before Him in serious, very serious prayer. A marriage is at stake. The children's future is at stake. And in a way you cannot know right now, but those of us who've been divorced fully understand this -- your own psychological well-being is at stake. You gotta go about this death of a marriage business the right way as much as possible.

3) I'm a firm believer in boundaries. I'm also a firm believer in following the Harley suggestions of shining the light in on an affair in progress.

4) You have no guarantees how this is going to work out one way or the other. Because the free-will choice of your WH is in play here. And also the OW's choice. So whatever you decide, just realize it may or may not work to redeem your marriage.

5) In these extremely difficult decisions, if in doubt, err on the side of being too merciful vs being too strict. Long-suffering, patient, these are Divine virtues extended to our entire world. We do well to emulate them in our families with God's help!

6) You might consider sitting WH down & asking him what he thinks you should do if he were in your situation. He's a professional business person. He understands hardball negotiations. Insist on it here! Negotiate a POJA on how this situation should go forward. Set specific date deadlines that are mutually agreable. Then move forward. Enforce your boundaries when / if the time comes.

A case in point. My WW moved out on 1-8-04. We set 3-9-04 as a deadline to decide what to do about the marriage. The date came & went. I went into "long-suffering like God mode". I then gently approached her & suggested a hard, non-negotiable final decision date concept. She listened, said she would think about it.

That decision never had to be enforced by me. I was praying like crazy along with many others. Suddenly, before I had to do anything within 10 days or so she stated she was filing for divorce. So ultimately she pulled the trigger.

That may or may not happen here with you too. Be ready for anything, but proceed with this like God would want you to.

My sincere & very heart-felt empathetic prayers are with you.

High Flight

I didn't say you should quit. I said you shouldn't tolerate. There's a big difference.

I haven't quit, and I'm not tolerating. What I am suggesting is that you determine what it means to not tolerate. I told my story to let you know that I don't think a phone call is effective because my H did it. What do you think about calling Harley on his radio show? He might have some ideas.

Cherished

<small>[ September 20, 2004, 08:15 AM: Message edited by: Cherished ]</small>

Thinking about how I have been acting I see that I have given ultimatums instead of boundries. However I am so tired of allowing myself to be walked on that I just wanted to stand on something. It is important to me that for once I hear him say to her that it is over. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that he will.

HighFlight-
I liked the idea of sitting down and setting dates. I guess that up to this point WH has always done what he wanted. I just wanted to feel that I had something to say.WH was the one that asked for the D. It hurt so much that I barely got out of bed. I cried and fell apart and then I found out I was pregnant. Suddenly it hit me that I had to be strong for 2 children. It's like when I get strong I seem to scare my WH. He pulls me back and then pushes me back out. I'm so lost and I can't take much more. I have sat down and had a good talk with God, but I am still struggling for answers.

Cherished,
Sorry for the misunderstanding. You are right. I need to quit tolerating. It just seems that when I quit tolerating I become a "bi@@@" in WH eyes. I need to find a happy medium. I don't know how to behave or what to do anymore. I am just so tired of being M, but not really. If there isn't a M and can't be one, shouldn't I move on?? D scares me, but so does wasting my life on something that hasn't changed in the last two years. Somehow I don't know how to take all the cards out of WH hands. I have allowed him to take time and figure out what he wants for 2 years. Each time he comes back just as uncertain as ever.

I am so lost. I am asking for God's help. Living life in limbo is slowly killing me.

I am currently going through the same thing, my husband doesn't want to give up other women and has publicly told our children (13 year old twins) and his parents. Our other children know they are older and won't talk to him. I finally laid down the same ultimatium and haven't heard from him in 2 days. He is now refusing to pay anything to assist with the children or household expenses. He has been living in an apartment since June when I told him to leave. He was abusive physically right before I kicked him out. The house is peaceful. I don't believe one word of in anything he says anymore. God bless you and I wish you the best.

Coolduck,

"Somehow I don't know how to take all the cards out of WH hands."

From my perspective, which is based on my situation and not yours, I think that what needs to happen is that you put all of the cards in WH hands.

Right now, what you are doing is telling him what to do. That is a demand, and he can come up with reasons why it is not a good idea, and he can tell you that you are too controlling and too paranoid and on and on and on. How do you know what he is doing while at work? You have no idea.

What you can focus on, convey, and be 100% confident of is HOW YOU FEEL. If he doesn't care how you feel and want to talk with you until you each can feel comfortable, then it is time to move on.

With Harley's program, that we've been in for 6 months, I finally gave up on demanding that we spend 15 hours per week together. I am not telling him what to do or what not to do. What I am doing is telling him how I feel. Results are mixed, but the truth of whether he is willing to care for me will not come of my being 100% certain of what he is doing 24 hours per day or whether he was willing to make one phone call. It will come of consistently and considerately understanding and working with me on addressing my feelings -- and my being willing to do the same with him.

I think you're on the wrong path now in insisting on a phone call being made, but that doesn't mean give up on the M.

Cherished

WH refused to make the phone call. He said that if he wanted to be there that he would of moved in with OW and he would be spending time there. I don't believe him. He doesn't get it. I could tell by our discussion that their e-mails have continued and he said he hadn't talked to her in a few days. Well he asked if we could try over two weeks ago and you haven't talked to her "in a few days". I told him that I found it unacceptable that he have a girlfriend and still want me that I was unable to give him time to sort it out. If he needed time to work on us, without OW in the picture he could have it.
Long story short -- I got nothing other than he does not want to lose me and he does not want a D.

I filed today. I feel very empty and sad tonight, but I feel I did the only thing I could do. I prayed to God for guidance and everytime I thought of my decision I did it with peace. In fact at the attorney's office, I almost walked out. I prayed, felt calm and stayed. Not sure if it was God or me brainwashing myself.I still have hope that he will wake up and stop it before it is too late, but i realize that he still isn't putting me or my feelings first. Praying that I made the right choice. Haven't cried a whole lot. Not sure why. Hasn't it sunk in yet???

Coolduck --
It's never too late. Re-marriage is as easy as marriage. It's divorce that's difficult. By filing for divorce, you are letting him know that marriage is for two people, not three.

You deserve to be cherished. Your feelings deserve to be respected. He may realize that, now, or after the divorce is final, or many years in the future. You are honoring the institution of marriage by what you are doing.
Cherished

Thank you so much Cherished.
I know that you are so right with all that you said. It justs hurts so much. I think what is getting me thru each day is the possiblities. I don't want to have false hope so I am trying to be realistic. I just can't imagine him living without me. He has always needed me and I know that he loves his DD. I'm hoping that he stops the D, or like you said the hope for remarriage down the road. And I guess if it is not to happen I will get strong along the way and it may not matter. Thanks for taking the time to care.

Coolduck,
It can just plain be hard to believe, but people have different outlooks than others. What is important is that he isn't showing care for you, and that's what you and your children need.

Cherished

D papers will be delivered tomorrow and H has basicly told me that he will do nothing to stop the D. I feel very sad and hurt, but not surprised. WH came over tonight to visit DD and fell asleep on the couch for the entire evening. he never ceases to amaze me. I am the pregnant tired one. He always complains how he never sees DD. It is all about him.

I am just very confused on how I could still want this man. He told me tonight that I ruined his life yet again by getting pregnant and he believes that I did it on purpose. And he is so cold and uncaring with his words. He said he never sees us getting along. Why is there a part of me that still wants to fight for him??? Why can't I just move on??? A major part of me knows that I am better off without him and yet I still want him. Is any of this normal??

You have a young child and another child on the way. Your children need him, and so do you. It is normal to want to do what you can to rebuild your relationship.

It is hard but appropriate to realize that only he can decide to do his part to rebuild your relationship. Without his commitment, your relationship is doomed. Is there a way to file for legal separation so that he is the one to make it a divorce?

Cherished