Just a quick background story

and then a question....

My husband has been having One Night Stands for 6 years. It started after the birth of my second child. We had a third child 2 years ago.

My husband became addicted to cocaine three years ago and ran up $16,000 in secret debt.

He claims he was an alcoholic and thats why he did the ONS. I never saw him drink at home except maybe a beer in the evening. Never saw him drunk. NEVER even crossed my mind about him being into drugs. Never saw any sign of that. But that is when I started feeling very unhappy in my marraige(when he claims the drugs started 3 years ago). So I must of picked up on something. Mainly his total withdrawal from me and the kids.

Six years ago when the sex started, I was happy. I thought he was, too. He says he was lonely on his work trips. Like I wasn't being home alone with two kids and pregnant!

Anyway, he is going to AA all the time now, and started Rehab, too. We have done marriage counseling and individual counseling. He is trying very hard. He wants to stay married. He has offered to sign a contract giving me everything if he hurts me again or leaves us(because I have a huge fear of him going back to drugs, not caring what happens to me and the kids and really trying to screw us financially.)

My question, can I ever be happy in this marriage, again? Is there any hope of ME getting over this (assuming he continues his recovery)? Part of me doesn't even believe any of the excuses he uses (drugs and alcohol). I mean, I think he may be just a bad person to start with and that allow him to be open to the other stuff. I was unhappy and had issues, too. I just think I'm a good person not willing to risk my beautiful family.

I do love him. But I think I cannot put myself through this again. Will I ever be able to relax and trust again or will I always hold back part of me and always fear being hurt again? If I do hold back forever I don't think I will enjoy this marriage. I feel marriage should be the one place you can be yourself and truly be happy.

Please help me if you have had a similiar situation or have any insight into this. Marriage Builders doesn't really address this situation. How I wish he had a normal affair!

Welcome.
It sounds like this isn't the first time you've been through this with this man. Each time makes it harder and harder to trust again. Trust, contrary to many people's beliefs, is not something you can force yourself to do. Trust is not the same as giving someone the benefit of the doubt.

If your husband stays clean and if he refrains from ONS and using sex as a substitute for drugs, I think you will eventually trust him again. Possibly not trust him with a bag of coke, or on a long weekend in Vegas, but basically trust him.

The question is a good one: Should you trust him? Should you risk the family on him? I can't answer that. I do suggest you get to a lawyer and figure out a way to protect your assets. Maybe get your husband to deed the house over to you alone and legally reliquish any claim on it. Sign up for that credit reporting stuff so you know exactly what he's doing with credit cards, loans etc.

I'd also suggest your husband find a new job that doesn't require traveling since that seems to be a trigger for ONS. My guess is he never really believed they counted as cheating.

Those are my thoughts, for what they're worth. Not much, I guess.

Alcoholism and Drug addiction are cunning, baffling and powerful diseases. There is not justification or exception for his behavior while he was actively using, however you can come to the understanding that he was living a life of insanity without having to power or knowledge to live life.

I am curious why you question whether or not he was an addict?

“””But that is when I started feeling very unhappy in my marriage(when he claims the drugs started 3 years ago). So I must of picked up on something. Mainly his total withdrawal from me and the kids.”””

Many addicts totally withdrawal not only from their loved ones but from life because they can’t face it and can’t deal with emotions.

”””Anyway, he is going to AA all the time now, and started Rehab, too.”””

That he’s going to “AA” all the time is a good thing. Is he in inpatient or outpatient rehab?

“””We have done marriage counseling and individual counseling.”””

Did you do these while he was actively in addiction and insane or have you done them since he’s cleaned up?

“””My question, can I ever be happy in this marriage, again?”””

If you allow yourself too and shed your attitude of indifference, there is a chance of happiness. It’s my guess that your husband, as a clean man, will become a totally different person. He will begin to grow emotionally and spiritually in directions you’ve never seen before. If you share this time with him, encourage him, and grow in understanding with him it could be a rewarding experience.

“””Is there any hope of ME getting over this (assuming he continues his recovery)?”””

As his recovery is reliant on Him, your recovery from the devastation that you’ve encountered is on You.

“””Part of me doesn't even believe any of the excuses he uses (drugs and alcohol).”””

Why? An addict is neither a bad nor a good person. They are simply people who’ve lost the ability to cope with life on life’s terms. Through programs such a AA and NA they can gain the tools and knowledge required for them to become the productive members of society that God had intended them to be.

“””I do love him.”””

Why?

“””Will I ever be able to relax and trust again or will I always hold back part of me and always fear being hurt again?”””

That’s totally dependent upon you. As humans, “fear” is a primary function that drives our emotions. In recovery I’ve learned two definitions of FEAR: 1. F*^% Everything And Run or 2. Face Everything And Recover. That applies to non-addictive people as well as addicts.

“””How I wish he had a normal affair!”””

Really? I wouldn’t wish that. That your husband is now working towards “life” recovery opens up the possibility or marital recovery and I don’t think a lot of “normal” affairs will open up the door to that idea.

So can your husband change? There’s no guarantee’s but it appears he’s on the right path, so I ask you, can you change?

Hugs, Thoughts, & Prayers

Thank your both for your input! I guess I have more faith in him recovering than I do in myself. It just all seemed to be directed at me and our kids. He never hurt/betrayed his friends or sisters,brothers, parents. All the hurt has been ours. He says he loves us but I can't imagine someone doing all this to the people he loves. He seems so obvious to me.

Rehab is outpatient because thats all he qualified for. The counseling and AA all started after I busted him on the ONS.

I would feel better if he started this all on his own instead of starting after I found out and freaked out.

So, you are an addict. Help me to understand why he couldn't come to me with his problems/issues? A lot of this hurt on my part is because I feel that if he loved me he could and should of felt safe coming to me to resolve whatever it was that drove him to drugs/alcohol. I would beg him to open up to me and he would just walk away, leaving me in tears.

I question not if he is an addict but that the addiction had anything to do with his cheating. I mean, what if he is just a cheater that happened to become an addict? Would the recovery of the addiction change the fact he is a man capable of devestating the 4 people in his life that love him most?

As for loving him...I guess I mean I thought I loved him up until all this came out. The person I thought I knew and loved wouldn't go to such lengths to destoy everything. So I guess I'm not sure I really love him. Maybe it was just a fantasy man image I projected on him.

I have never been so scared and hurt in all my life. I'm worried about myself. I don't understand why I'm still struggling with this 4 months later. I think I should know what to do but none of my choices seem right. I want my kids and me to be happy and safe.

Have you looked into attending “Alnon” meetings? That would help you relate to people who have lived through the insanity.

“””It just all seemed to be directed at me and our kids…………. All the hurt has been ours. He says he loves us but I can't imagine someone doing all this to the people he loves.”””

This is another typical addict behavior, hurting those who mean the most.

“””I would feel better if he started this all on his own instead of starting after I found out and freaked out.”””

The important thing is that he is taking the steps to recover.


“””Help me to understand why he couldn't come to me with his problems/issues?”””

The plain and simple of it is that he didn’t have the ability to express them to you. He!! he didn’t have the ability to be honest with himself, how could he be open and honest with anyone else?

“””A lot of this hurt on my part is because I feel that if he loved me he could and should of felt safe coming to me to resolve whatever it was that drove him to drugs/alcohol.”””

Again, he didn’t have the ability or coping skills to do that. It’s nothing against you, he simply couldn’t.

“””I would beg him to open up to me and he would just walk away, leaving me in tears.”””

As I’ve said, emotional problems are what addicts hide from. Therefore that was just fanning the fire, so to speak.

”””I question not if he is an addict but that the addiction had anything to do with his cheating. I mean, what if he is just a cheater that happened to become an addict?”””

I can’t answer that.

“””Would the recovery of the addiction change the fact he is a man capable of devastating the 4 people in his life that love him most?”””

I can’t answer that either. I can say that AA/NA are programs based in spirituality and answering to a higher power. If he chooses the God of my understanding as his Higher Power then many faucets of his character and life will change for the positive.

”””The person I thought I knew and loved wouldn't go to such lengths to destroy everything.”””

Do you believe that addiction is a disease? I do! In my mind, nothing justifies the affair, but your husband is not responsible for the disease of addiction. However he is responsible for the cure.

“””I don't understand why I'm still struggling with this 4 months later.”””

If you weren’t struggling at this for 4 months, I wouldn’t be able to understand. This didn’t get to this point overnight and it won’t end nor be fixed overnight.

Bill,
Can you move in our house with us? LOL. I can believe what you say more than I believe what he says. Probably because you have never lied to me and he has lied for years. He has told me the same things you have said but I have a hard time with it coming from him. I'm glad he he recovering so well but I have my doubts whether it will help our marriage. Its like its still all about him and what he needs. He practically killed me and now he has all the support and understanding and I have no one! No one understands me, no one can tell me "these are your steps, follow this and you'll be better, you'll feel better".

AA almost gives him an excuse. He keeps saying "that wasn't me". Who the h@ll was it than? Who have I been married to? Who are you now? Who will you be?

I went to one Alnon meeting, cried the whole time and never went back. The speaker was talking about how we have to accept our responsibilty for the addiction. I just do not feel that way. I didn't raise him, I never hurt him, I'll I did was try my best to get him to participate in our family lives. I didn't even know about the drugs or alcohol so I wasn't enabling him. I would never of put up with it if I had known. I realize I enabled him without knowing it but geez...he hid it so well. I just thought he didn't love us. I accepted all the blame for our failing marriage, thinking I wasn't good enough. I can't believe he let me go on for years feeling so badly about myself. I struggle everyday with feeling lousy about myself. I do not know how to overcome that.

People at Alnon all knew what was going on, at least knew the reason their loved one was hurting them, they realized that it wasn't about them.

Also the Alnon booklets they gave me said I have to be willing to let him ruin us financially etc. I have three little children. I cannot accept that on their behalf. I need some guarantees and I know that I can't get them. I know people fall on hard times but usually thats not a CHOICE they make.

Someone just shoot me and put me out of my misery! Obviously I'm the weakest person in the world. But for the life of me, I do not understand how people ever get over this. I do not have anything I can grab on to and say "Ok, at least I know he loved us because he...
never cheated
only cheated once
only cheated for a year
didn't steal money from us
never lied
treated us well
was clearly making an effort
came clean on his own

Couldn't he have spared me one little thing?

AHHHHH....I'm so whiney!!! I hate it.

((((((((((((((((((( Doin ))))))))))))))

“””Probably because you have never lied to me and he has lied for years.”””


“””I'm glad he recovering so well but I have my doubts whether it will help our marriage.”””

I have no idea, that depends both of your attitudes and desires.

“””It’s like its still all about him and what he needs.”””

Yes it is. AA/NA are very selfish programs, as they should be. He needs to stay clean and that requires a lot. But what is the reward for his sobriety?

“””He practically killed me and now he has all the support and understanding and I have no one!”””

That’s your choice….. Plus what am I, chopped liver?

“””No one understands me, no one can tell me "these are your steps, follow this and you'll be better, you'll feel better".”””

Well 1st you have to be willing to accept what they have to say with an open mind.

”””AA almost gives him an excuse. He keeps saying "that wasn't me".”””

It was him, however he was insane at the time. Would you feel better if he acted crazy because he had a brain tumor and now it’s in remission?

“””Who are you now? Who will you be?”””



”””I went to one Alnon meeting, cried the whole time and never went back.”””

Are you in a larger city where you have the ability to try other groups?

“””The speaker was talking about how we have to accept our responsibilty for the addiction. I just do not feel that way.”””

I have no idea.

“””I just thought he didn't love us.”””

Now do you know that he loves you?

“””I can't believe he let me go on for years feeling so badly about myself.”””

I wish no one had to feel that. I will say that he felt terrible about himself and that’s why he did what he did.

“””I struggle everyday with feeling lousy about myself. I do not know how to overcome that.”””

Why do you feel lousy about yourself?

”””People at Alnon all knew what was going on, at least knew the reason their loved one was hurting them, they realized that it wasn't about them.”””

They didn’t come to that understanding overnight. Many of them blamed themselves for their partners problems.

”””Also the Alnon booklets they gave me said I have to be willing to let him ruin us financially etc. I have three little children. I cannot accept that on their behalf.”””

I do believe that there are certain things you can do to protect yourself financially during his recovery.

“’””Someone just shoot me and put me out of my misery! Obviously I'm the weakest person in the world.”””

Now why would you say that?

“””AHHHHH....I'm so whiney!!! I hate it.”””

Whiney wasn’t the word I was thinking. I was thinking more like hurt, betrayed, and resentful.

The book Emotional Unavailability has a chapeter on addicts. Dr. Bryn Collins the author makes a clear distinction between physical addiction like alcohol and destructive bad habits. That's important because her next premise is that Active addicts are emotionally unavailable. Their primary relationship is to their drug of choice. You and others are just vehicles used to maintain that relationship.

You were fighting a losing battle when you tried to get your husband to connect with you on an emotional level while he was using drugs.

The good news is that there is hope as long as he stays in recovery. Freed of the relationship with coke and alcohol, he can form a relationship with you.

LH, I do disagree at little with you. Doin's recovery is not solely her responsibility. It is her husband's as well. There can be no recovery if he continues to harm her. The harm has to stop and have been stopped for a long time before her trust will return.

On the other hand, she can follow all kinds of behaviors which make it unlikely the harm will continue, and at the same time improve her marriage.

Wow. You all are being so helpful. Bill, you are definitely not chopped liver. I could take up all your time asking you questions. I am fascinated in hearing from you anything that would shed some light on this.

Greengables, you are definitely right about him not being emotionally available while he was using. There has been such a huge change, so quick and so drastic. I have a hard time with the speed in which he is moving. It scares me to think either he was not really addicted and was just being a butt then or he's faking it now.

There are so many issues here and thats why I want to quit and run. If I could seperate some of the things out and protect myself that would really help.

Any suggestions on what I can do to protect myself and kids financially if I decide to stay and work things out? My divorce attorney said what I'm asking for is a pre-nup and I couldn't do a pre-nup since I'm already married. I want something in writing saying that I will stay and work on us but he has to give me and the kids the house and I don't want any of his drug related debts if things don't work (like relapses). I know it doesn't sound fair but I do not want to be one of those B movie dumb wives that stay despite all signs that its stupid. I am waiting to get a call back from my attorney on this because I can't believe I'm the only one who has ever thought along these lines.

Yes, I'm definitely hurt, betrayed and resentful. I like that better than whiney, although I'm not sure why? LOL

Ok, back to the issue...Bill and Greengables, what kind of things can I do that will help draw some a line in the sand? I mean, if I accept this all now, will he think I will again in the future? How can I make it clear (if I stay) that I will NEVER put up with any of these behaviors again? How can I protect myself emotionally? What behaviors are you talking about? What if he has a small slip -up? I'm afraid I'll either totally overact or bury my head in the sand AGAIN and look the other way when I shouldn't.

He asks me all the time what he can do to help me but I have no clue. He does not to do something to make me feel safe and wanted. I do not want to be in a marriage I do not feel safe or wanted in. I asked him not to travel for work anymore and he has agreed. He has been taking an active role as a father, which I am thrilled with. I really do not want to be his jailer, but I have to have some peace.

Bill, you are divorced, right? Did you recover from your addiction before the divorce? Did you love your wife and kids even when you were using? Was it really about you or do you think it had something to do with how you felt about your wife (like she wasn't who you wanted)? How does/did your mind work?

I'm not trying to make you feel badly. Obviously you are a kind person for helping me out. Just trying to understand.

Thank you!

Hey doing the best - Just wanted to say that you will probably get all you are asking for anyway. I just went through mediation for divorce, and it seems like they err on the side of the women anyway - just ask all the devastated men on the board. And especially considering his substance abuse, you should have no problem getting the kids if things don't work out.
I'm sorry for what you're going through.

“””There has been such a huge change, so quick and so drastic. I have a hard time with the speed in which he is moving. It scares me to think either he was not really addicted and was just being a butt then or he's faking it now.”””

I wish I could put into words the transformation that I went through. I hid from people and anyone who really knew me should of hated me. Then BAM!!!!!!! I can feel again. I no longer need to run from emotion. I can love. I can hurt. I can feel. Something I didn’t do for a long time and yes it was a drastic change.

”””I asked him not to travel for work anymore and he has agreed. He has been taking an active role as a father, which I am thrilled with.”””

AWESOME.

”””Bill, you are divorced, right?”””

Yes I am…

“””Did you recover from your addiction before the divorce?”””

My addiction really didn’t surface until after my divorce.

“””Did you love your wife and kids even when you were using?”””

Of course, I’ve always loved my kids. BTW I hid it from my kids well. I think my oldest seen me drunk once. But I also suffered from great shame and remorse that I’m sure caused me to pull away from them some.

“””Was it really about you or do you think it had something to do with how you felt about your wife (like she wasn't who you wanted)?”””

I don’t understand what you’re asking here.

“””How does/did your mind work?”””

It didn’t work very well for a while and now it works better. If I was happy, I needed to use to be happier. If I was sad, I had to use to feel better. If I was angry, I had to use. Addict’s, in general, cannot process emotion. Then it got to a point where I had to use to feel “normal”, all along not knowing what normal was…

”””I'm not trying to make you feel badly.”””

I know. But I must say that you can spend a lifetime trying to understand and you won’t be able too. You are not crazy and haven’t lived through the madness of what my mind is like. But one thing you will find about people who are solidly in recovery is that we are here to help in any way possible. For we can only keep the gift of sobriety by giving it away and sharing with others….

All that being said, anonymity is a basic tradition of our program. Though this site offers that too a point, I’m not comfortable going into the horrific details of certain aspects of my life for all to see. However, if at any point you’d like to discuss more specifics, my e-mail address is below….

Hugs, Thoughts, & Prayers

To Bill,
Thanks. I'm sure I will have some more questions concerning addiction. I really appreciate your help and your wish for privacy. I hope you don't mind if I take you up on your offer.

Faithhopelove04,
Yes, my divorce attorney said I would get the kids (even my husband now sees that is the best for the kids). But I'm concerned if about losing my house. I've read that kids are better off after a divorce if you keep as much the same as possible. So I prefer not to move for their sakes. I however, hate this house now. He did drugs in the basement while I was asleep. He met women on this very computer. Ugh...

Anyway, how did you go about doing mediation? Thats different then both getting attorneys and fighting it out, right? Since he is sober now, I think we could do this peacefully. Another reason I'm reluctant to stay and try to work things out...I'm afraid if he relapses things would get ugly. At least now he says he sees whats best for us and wants to do the right thing.

Sigh...I can't wait til I figure out whats best for all of us.

Doin, you asked Bill about how he felt about his wife when he was drinking. I read it almost as if you were asking if you somehow contributed to the addiciton.

No, you didn't. So scrap any thought that goes there.

And, if I were you, I'd tried to think about your husband when he was using as if he were possessed by a demon only you didn't know it. How he felt about you then, what he thought about you, has little relevancy NOW that he's clean. I think actions are a different matter, because actions follow the laws of physics and have reactions, and actions affect people and effect feelings.

More to the point will be the question, how do you feel about me now that you've been sober for 30 days? 90 days? a year? Am I meeting your needs? Am I doing any harm to you?

Practical matters. You are looking for a post-nupt, not a pre-nupt. It probably doesn't matter too much. One thing you could do besides getting a credit monitoring service, is to squirrel away some hard cash in a safety deposit box at a bank you don't otherwise use. Obviously, you don't want $100M sitting there not earning interest. You do want enough to see you through some hard times.

Since your husband isn't using now, I'd suggest you just get a savings account in your own name. If you have reason to suspect he's doing drugs again, you can cancel credit cards and take other very drastic measures then.

Now is a good time to give him as much the benefit of the doubt as possible.

My last bit of advice is subject to alanon and Bill. my experience is limited.

dtbic, Please, please, please try another Al-Anon meeting, in fact, try several. Usually it's recommended that you try six meetings before making up your mind about it. Al-Anon can help you with all your questions. Another suggestion is to look up posts by BrambleRose - she's one who recovered her marriage even while her H was still drinking by pursuing her own recovery through Al-Anon and MB - and she's very eloquent on the subject.

I totally relate to all your questions because I married an alcoholic addict, too. We dated, I broke it off because of the substance abuse and his verbally abusive behavior, he got sober and we got back together and married after two years of sobriety because I thought after that much time I could trust him. Yes, he returned to drinking, drugs, and verbal abuse, but I had also stopped focusing on my own recovery in Al-Anon soon after he got sober. I've been back in Al-Anon for over 3 years and wouldn't have made it without it.

Bill is right. You are responsible for your own recovery, just as your H is responsible for his. That doesn't mean you're responsible single-handedly for the recovery of your marriage, that takes BOTH of you. Yes, your H has the addiction and yes, he had the A's, but to recover the marriage, it still takes both of you. You will hear this in Al-Anon as well as in the MB literature.

Unfortunately there are no guarantees in life, whether you divorce or stay. I know this all too well having had breast cancer 6 years ago (mastectomy, chemotherapy, radiation, and reconstructive surgery) followed a year later by my H's return to drugs and alcohol and a year after that by his leaving me for the MOW who's 28 years younger than I am. He left me to run our business alone and to take care of his sister's two kids for whom we were legal guardians while supporting him and MOW (because of his 1/2 ownership of the business). Then almost 4 months ago, my 23 year old stepson, who I helped raise since he was less than a year old, shot himself to death under the influence of alcohol. Each experience has been emotionally devastating in a different way and each has caught me completely by surprise.

It's important to make plans and do what you can to protect your kids and your and their futures. I believe the best thing you can do for them, as well as for yourself, is to pursue your own recovery in Al-Anon and don't make any longterm decisions about your marriage while you take care of yourself.

Dear All,

Thanks for being there for me. Its truly amazing how perfect strangers can make a difference in someone's life. I do not know where I would be without the people on this site.
Greengables, you are so sweet. I can tell from your posts. Sweet but not dumb. Thats how I want to be.

My husband is acting like he should be, doing everything he can. I wouldn't even be considering staying if he wasn't going so all out to make this right.

I'm just looking at myself and not liking what I see. I have real concerns about my ability to LET myself love him again. The fact he had sex with so many other women over such a long period of time...if it was a "normal" affair I could put to use all these wonderful Marriage Builder books I've been reading. We actually went through "Lovebusters" together. I just gave up because I kept thinking to myself "ok, you didn't meet this or that need...you were in conflict etc" but everything he did was such a HUGE over reaction. Its not like doing 20 women once over 6 years helped him to meet any of those needs I wasn't. He didn't even have relationships with them. Plus I'm mad that I would try to ask him what he needed from me and he wouldn't EVER tell me. He says he didn't know himself. Its so hard.

Letstry, I am considering going back to Alnon again. I haven't really decided yet. I felt like it was such a brainwashing thing last time. I would like to decide on how I feel about trying to work this out before I go gain. I don't know. At this rate I may never decide.

My next step is looking up BrambleRose.

Thanks for the tip!.

Are you still having your affair?

YES

TOOMUCHCOFFEEMAN,

I'M IN THE DIVORCING/DIVORCED SECTION NOW SO GET A GRIP!

I HAVE NO IDEA WHAT YOUR PROBLEM IS...OTHER THAN BEING SELF-RIGHTEOUS.

Ummmm, doing the best i can, if you are having an affair, that's probably pertinent information, and people like Lost Husband, who are trying to help you could probably help more if they knew all the facts. Maybe Toomuchcoffeman was just trying to point this out and get all the facts straight.
If you are, and you are still considering working things out with your husband, than this is an important detail.

I'm sorry if my question offended you and I promise not to post to your thread again, but if you truly want people to give you good advice, then you must come totally clean with them about your situation.

God bless.