Welcome to the
Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum

This is a community where people come in search of marriage related support, answers, or encouragement. Also, information about the Marriage Builders principles can be found in the books available for sale in the Marriage Builders® Bookstore.
If you would like to join our discussion forum, please read the Announcement Forum for instructions, rules, & guidelines.
The members of this community are peers and not professionals. Professional coaching is available by clicking on the link titled Coaching Center at the top of this page.
We trust that you will find the Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum to be a helpful resource for you. We look forward to your participation.
Once you have reviewed all the FAQ, tech support and announcement information, if you still have problems that are not addressed, please e-mail the administrators at mbrestored@gmail.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 862
E
Member
OP Offline
Member
E
Joined: Jun 2000
Posts: 862
The parenting agreement that we haven't even begun to hammer out addresses the issue of "joint decision making" as major. I found out from my son tonite that dad is already talking about his new girlfriend, to the older one (boy 14) and how he wants them to come and stay with him ASAP. Litte one, girl 10, he is just saying he wants her to come stay with him 50% of the time ASAP.

Wait a minute - shouldn't he be talking to me about this stuff first? We haven't even agreed to a parenting plan yet, and he is moving ahead with "conditioning" the kids into it.

Worse than that, I had to ask them tonite whats going on with daddy, and thats when I found out about this! Worse than that, when I asked them how they felt about it, they both said they are OK with it, they really want to see daddy more, and if he is living with his girlfriend/roommate, thats OK with them, as long as they can spend more time with daddy.

Now everyone, my counselors, my attorney, my MB buddies and my friends, have predicted, "they will be so mad at him for walking out on us, and hate OW. Guess what....they seem to be fine with it after only one week! What the heck is this - the Stepford family? 14 years of a happy marriage, they see affection up to two weeks ago, and now they are blindly ready to agree to daddy's new plan to introduce the new girl friend and move in with them?

I really had a hard time tonite biting my tongue.

"Are you OK with this?" "Does this bother you at all?" What do you think about daddy having a new girlfriend so soon?" "do you remember her from last time?" (the A 5 years ago, when they met her) - (he told them her name, and I thought for sure they would remember her from their exposure to her before - they were 10 and 6 respectively when they had the first A, and she was in the picture, trying to be so nice to them at company picnics, etc.)

What is going on here? The kids are blindly accepting OW as daddy's girlfriend after hearing that our happy family is breaking up only a week ago? I guess they miss hime so much already, are so unhappy about him not being here, that they are willing to accept him and his new girlfriend already, as long as they can see him!

These are intelligent, sensitive kids. Of course, I don't want to rant and rave about "how could you - don't you see what daddy has done! He walked out on us because of her, and you guys don't even care? You are not mad at him and don't have a problem about her?" What the heck!!!

I don't get it. How can they be so passive and accepting of this situation that is breaking up our family after only two weeks, and is causing mom so much distress. Do I need to cry more, or stop being so stoic? What is this? My kids don't care that their family is breaking up after all these years of happiness, no apparent problems, only a loving and happy and secure home, and they don't even blink an eye about moving in with daddy and the new girlfriend?

I do not want to make them take sides, but please, I have to say to myself, where is their loyalty? Where are their hearts? Doesn't this bother them at all? Are they going to go blindly into this new living arrangement without any qualms, as long as this is what daddy wants? Are they not resentful of OW, they are already saying "whatever makes daddy happy?"

Oh my God, this is too much. I know I am not suppose to do anything to make them take sides, but I cannot believe they have no problem with this arrangement that daddy is trying to talk them into.

What the heck is going on here?

<small>[ October 19, 2004, 11:47 PM: Message edited by: Everhopeful ]</small>

Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 3,830
F
Member
Offline
Member
F
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 3,830
I posted this on your other thread about running into H & OW.

Let me just add this. Your kids are CHILDREN. They are not fully conscious, fully aware, mature adults, and thus they do not fully comprehend what a marriage is or what commitment is or what an intimate relationship is. They have seen parts/some of it modeled by you and your H, but they do not KNOW deep down inside. Thus, they may not be okay with the moral implications of their dad shacking up with a (disrespectful name here) OW--they just don't know what else to do.

My kids were not safe telling their father that they disapproved. He retaliated against them and behaved selfishly and childishly--DUH! Thus, they were not safe telling him so they didn't. Some parts of them wanted him to want them, and he just DIDN'T, so in their child-like way they thought if they didn't make him mad, he would love them again. See??

Your kids are not "okay" that their own father dumped them to move in with a GF. They know that the GF means more to him than they do! But what can they do about it? They are not adults of equal standing, so they can not talk to him. In their heads it's rather easy: swallow the bitter pill and be able to spend some time with dad...or speak up and dad picks the GF over me.

If you were in that spot and a child, which would you pick???

I wrote:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Everhopeful,

I know that at first it APPEARS as if the WS is "getting away with it" because from the outside view, they have an exciting new lovenest with an exciting new love, and the children do not confront their parent and get all upset.

HOWEVER...

...no matter how it may appear from the outside, on the inside they are not "getting away with it." The relationship with their soulmate can not possibly prosper and thrive because it is based on lying and cheating and dishonesty. If your WS was lied and cheated and was dishonest with YOU--he will lie and cheat and be dishonest with HER too. Pretty soon he will start to realize that he has an obligation to you and his children even if he chooses to be with lovergirl, and pretty soon he will start to realize that when lovergirl doesn't get her way, that she complains and b1tches too.

(Amazing, isn't it? WS's tell BS's "...well THEY understand me and THEY doesn't yell at me..." but of course WS's forget that if they treated the OP with emotional abuse and neglect, cheated on OP, and then lied about it--the OP would yell too!! DUH!!! )

Meanwhile, the WS becomes spiritually void because they can not face that what they are doing is just plain wrong--the WS becomes emotionally and mentally abusive to their former S and neglectful of their children--the WS becomes emotionally and mentally injured themself because the OP can not possibly supply all their emotional needs--the WS becomes financially damaged because they have to support two households--and life is going downhill. It doesn't happen overnight (or in one week) but it does happen.

Simultaneously, the BS CAN become spiritually mature because they face the ways that they contributed and learn and grow from it--the BS CAN become emotionally and mentally mature toward their former S and the foundation of security for their children--the BS CAN become emotionally and mentally stronger themself because they realize that they are personally responsible for their own choices and the BS can get their needs met on their own--the BS CAN become financially self-reliant and increase financially because they have the opportunity to better themself, re-enter the career world, and depend upon themself. It doesn't happen overnight (or in one week) but it does happen.

Sooooo...that is why people say that the WS doesn't get away with it. It takes TIME, and at first it APPEARS from the outside as if the WS is "getting away with it" but it is an appearance only. It is not deep, true intimacy.

*****

Now, let me give you a real-life example.

My exH left us for one of his OW in 1999. From 1999-2002, I tried to save the M and follow MB principles, and he tried to continue to be unfaithful with other women and hide it from me. Thanksgiving 2002 I found yet another OW (the one with whom he is still sometimes in touch), and he moved out. At first, he lived in a hotel and was on a one night stand (ONS) binge, but within about a couple months he had half the household furniture and stuff, a new townhome, a good job with a good paycheck, and FREEDOM! I had two kids to feed and care for by myself, a mortgage and all his bills, only half a household of furniture and stuff, a big house I couldn't take care of, no job or way to pay any of it, and what felt like a millstone of responsibility.

The last OW that he left us for, is still messing around with him, but she's also still married and won't leave her H. Her H is so sick of it all that he doesn't care. She has 4 kids from 2yo to 14yo, and my exH DISLIKES kids and has to watch them. He can't take her to all those romantic places and buy her gifts and little "just becauses" anymore because he now (after fighting it and refusing) has to pay child support...and she doesn't like that. They are "just friends" now and he's mad at her because she just blows him off. He lost his great office job due to his raging and anger, and now works 80-90 hrs/wk. in a restaurant standing all day doing hard work that is slowing killing him. He has AGED, lost weight in a bad way, and does not look good.

Simultaneously, it was rough at first and there were lots of nights I cried myself to sleep, but gradually I got it together. I started off with foodstamps and workfare, and with some help creating a resume etc., I did eventually find a pretty good job. About then, I also started to get child support, so I was doing okay (not fabulous, but okay). Then the kids and I found a townhome that we all liked and agreed on, and we moved (monthly payment went WAY down!). We all decided to dedicate our home to serenity and respect, and in fact we even did a housewarm dedication! I started to grow spiritually and in faith, so I prayed for a better job that would be where I'm supposed to be. Lo and behold, I went into a little shop called For Heaven's Sake that sells angels and heavenly stuff, and they needed some help...so I prayed about it and decided to work there. Just two weeks ago, I got promoted to store manager; I'm on a salary with no ceiling (as the store's sales increase, so does my salary); and I'm in a supportive, encouraging environment where they are HELPING me grow in my career and spiritually. I have aged too, but I look more like myself than ever before, and I am FINALLY comfortable in my own skin!

And finally...my kids. My kids love their own dad and want to have a relationship with him. My kids felt angry with him for just leaving them, and they held most of it in (it's not safe to tell him how they feel). My kids wanted him to want them, and he didn't, and that hurt them A LOT--irrepairable damage. My kids make the effort to have a relationship with their father, but he doesn't put them ahead of his work or his OW and they know it. It just hurts them to have to say that out loud. My kids see that their dad can not be with them for more than a few days (or else he explodes), so they have short visits and one-night overnights to see him. My kids do not "embrace" the OW but they have learned to deal with her fairly civilly and they have also learned to like her kids (after all, the kids are "innocent"). Since their dad left, he has just blown them off, not shown up, or picked a fight with them enough times that they are growing sick of it and know that he is not someone they can depend on...he'll promise "if you do this I'll do that" and then he won't deliver. They SEE it for themselves.

It just all takes TIME, Everhopeful.


CJ</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

<small>[ October 20, 2004, 12:15 AM: Message edited by: FaithfulNewCJ ]</small>

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,173
W
Member
Offline
Member
W
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,173
EH - I seem to follow you all over the board. I guess you remind me so much of my own situation, and all I went through last year at this time.

When I predicted that your children would not like the OW I forgot that there is generally a small amount of time when they seem to accept it, and seem to be anxious to spend time with daddy even if she is with him. It won't last.

Right now they still have not seen her, they don't understand the reality of the situation. They have not seen what it really looks like to see daddy with another woman, who isn't their mom. Here again, you do not need to tell them - they are going to see it all too soon.

Yes - they want to spend more time with daddy. First of all - they miss him, just like you do. Second, your WH has probably said things like "OW is SO EXCITED! about meeting you guys!!! She wants to take you to a movie - she likes to watch Sponge Bob - she loves watching sports" whatever he needs to say to make her appear acceptable. It won't last that way.

little by little they will realize that OW is going to tag along every single time. They will see OW get irritated when they come over and they make noise, or they make a mess, or do some other child type thing that interupts her "romantic" new life.

Hang in there EH - you will likely have 2 - 4 weeks of your kdis "accepting" OW and then slowly things will start to fall apart. Remember to be the classy one in all this.

Here is my similar example - the day my WxH walked out he told our boys "I am happier than I have ever been in my life, I tried to love your mom but I just can't love her like I do OW, and surely you guys wouldn't deprive me this chance at happiness."

So my younger son - age 12 at the time - said to me "mom, I want my Dad to be happy - and if this makes him happy then it is ok with me."
I thought "oh my gosh! What is he learning?" That it is ok to abandon your wife and children if you find someone new who makes you happier???
I freaked out - what was this man teaching my little boy!!
But I decided to keep quiet for awhile. Frankly, I just didn't know what to do - or what to expect - and did not want to react until I had time to think about it.
For the next couple of weeks WxH and OW would show up constantly to take the boys out to pizza (which I couldn't even afford) or to the movies (I could not sit through a movie without having a panic attack) and I thought "I'm losing them.

Then one day the older boy said "no more". He said he wanted to see dad, but not with OW around. I told him that he would need to tell his dad that. He did. Dad said "you will have to accept her and see us both - or you won't see me at all".
Younger son continued to accept the offers for movies, dinner, etc. After a couple more weeks he had a complete melt down. Said that he didn't like OW - didn't like what his dad was doing - that this was all horrible.

In the long run - the younger son suffered the most. I think it was because he was the one who was so quick to accept her - he was the one who said he wnated to see his dad happy. The reality of the situation hit him the hardest. BTW - I did get him into counseling - which helped a lot. WxH used to say "he doesn't need counseling - he just needs you to tell him that everything is Ok". That was one thing I could NOT do. I did not talk bad about WH or his OW - but I never said that it was ok either. It wasn't.

I KNOW how you are feeling right now. I truly do. I was there. My SIL kept telling me "don't panic - your boys love you, they will not like her better, the R won't last, you need to be the classy one." and she was right. So am I.

Sounds like all your friends and family are saying the same stuff to you.


My ex also said he wanted the kids 50% of the time in the beginning. That freaked me out too. But I told him I would not go for it - and would fight him becuase it was not good for the boys to bounce back and forth so much. Told him that I would fight to the end on that - so he may as well get used to the every other weekend deal.
Guess what happened? After the boys spent a couple of weekends with him and OW he dropped the idea of 50% time. The boys would get into a fight - or they would make a mess - whatever. OW would want to go out to the bars and party - but WxH wanted to stay home with the boys - so she would get pissed. Finally, he just quit talking about the 50% deal.

I think the typical WS just figures everything will be just fine. They will move in with OP, the kids will spend time there - it will all be just fine (they all like to say "kids adjsut"). But the reality is that it feels weird to them. The kids are not comfortable in this strange apartment, with this strange woman who won't go away. And the WS sees his kids trying to relate to this woman, but its not their mom, and he starts to think "crap - this is too weird - the kids should be with their mom".
In my case-
At this point he doesn't even take them every other weekend. He loves them, and wants to be with them, but having them for a weekend gets in the way of his dating. Plus, he realizes that when they are with me they are in a home, with a loving mom. I fix meals for them, help them with homework, watch Sponge Bob with them - you name it.

Now that I am on the other side - WxH and OW have been apart for about 6 months now - I said to him "I want you to tell younger son that what you did was wrong - that M is supposed to be forever - and its not ok to leave your family". He said "ok, I will"

Hang in there sweetie.

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,076
L
Member
Offline
Member
L
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 2,076
EH,

A quote from WOF that I believe is true:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> When I predicted that your children would not like the OW I forgot that there is generally a small amount of time when they seem to accept it, and seem to be anxious to spend time with daddy even if she is with him. It won't last. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This has happened with my teenage daughter. At first she was fine with her dad being with OW. He was happy and I was happier in her eyes, so what was the problem?

She met OW. She decided OW was "cool". She wanted to spend time with OW and her dad.

But then she actually DID spend an afternoon with them. She cried the entire time and talked to me on the phone. She said it was "overwhelming".

She was supposed to do it again a week ago. She cancelled on them. STBXH was very angry. OW called me and wanted to know what was up.

I told them what I believe is the reason, that although my daughter may accept OW as a "friend" when it's just her and OW (long story--OW helps pick up my daughter from school in STBXH's place a few times/week), when my daughter is in a setting where her dad and the OW are together playing house, she becomes very, VERY upset and doesn't want to be there because that's when she can no longer deny that "dad and mom aren't together".

Also, as OW tries to become closer with my daugher, my daughter has backed away and was last week referring to her as the "sl*t".

On the other hand, her relationship with me has improved over this same period of time.

I've said very few bad things about my kids' father since he moved out (though I have agreed with a few things they've said <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ). I try to remind them both frequently that although he and I aren't together, he is still their father and they shouldn't lose the relationship with him.

My son, 18, refuses to even see his father. But I was very worried that my daughter who was always closer to STBXH, would want to go live with him. Instead, she's pulling away because she's seeing things more and more in their true light.

So stay strong. Your kids will eventually come around and see things for what they really are.

LL

Joined: May 2004
Posts: 27
K
Member
Offline
Member
K
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 27
I wanted my kids to hate her. They got along with her.

But I feel the other side of that now too. I don't want them to hate my boyfriend.

And a lawyer said I can get in trouble if my ex can prove I tried to turn the kids against him and her.

Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,885
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 1,885
I had to reply to this....my neices are 15 and 16 and when their dad started living with the girlfriend they were ok with at first but now they can't stand her because they see that she is taking their dad away from them and only wants to spend time with him and not all of them. They have finally told their dad that they won't visit him if she's there.
Hope that helps

Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 490
M
Member
Offline
Member
M
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 490
I've been lurking around here for quite a while but this thread really got to me so I thought I'd better post.

I'm in similar situation except the male/female roles a reversed (my W had an A and soon after moved in with OM). I however have fought really hard with her to prevent my kids being exposed to OM right away. Its been almost 4 months since we've been separated (and a couple of months since she's moved in with OM). I'm not sure I can hold them off much longer, but I'm hoping the relationship implodes before I have to deal with this.

You are just barely separated and he wants to throw the OW at the kids? I cannot believe the selfishness of some people. Your kids are not even adjusted to the separation let alone ready to deal with this. Has he talked to anyone (like a shrink) about the possible implications or reactions of the kids? Does he have any idea what he is getting himself into?

If its going to happen and you can't do anything about it... If I were you I would make sure the kids understood that she was not going to replace you as their mother and that she was just another adult (in your mind). Tell them to treat her with respect like any other adult but no more, no less. Tell them she is not your mother nor will she ever be and if they ever feel uncomfortable around her to tell you. I would protect your role as their mother as much as possible, but leave it up to them to figure out what bunch of immoral losers your H and OW are. I'm sure they will...

Kids are smart, they'll figure it out and its not you that they will hate.

There's my 2 cents worth... but I am definitely a bit jaded on the topic.

Take care and hang in there... your kids need you!

Miker

Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,173
W
Member
Offline
Member
W
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 1,173
I am going to add another story here. Yeah, I talk/type too much!!

A friend of mine is going through this right now as well. Her D-day was in July. Her WH lives with OW. OW has 2 small children. My friend and her H have 4 kids - twins, boy and girl, age 16, girl age 14 and boy age 13. They live just down the street, and spend lots of time at my house these days.
In the beginning the 16 year girl was "fine" with dads GF. She actually said to me "my dad looks so happy now - I want my dad to be happy." The OW took her shopping, bought her stuff, called her cell phone a lot and left messages. My friend, the BS, actually listened to some of the messages left on her daughters phone by the OW - that woman actually said things like "your dad and I love you baby girl! We want you to go to the beach with us this weekend! Love you lots!" Yes - she actually claimed to love this girl.
None of the kids even knew this woman before Their dad moved in with her - so how this woamn suddenly came to love this girl is beyond me. And of course OW only said these things to this D because she was the only one who seemed to "accept" the adulterous witch. Here were 3 other kids also suffering, but the OW did not invite them to go to the beach, did not buy them gifts.

Anyway, my friend,the BS, would cry and cry and say to me "I am losing my D - how can this happen, what will I do" and I said "hang in there - this daughter is headed for a HUGE crash." Sure enough - the crash came about a week later. Daughter began to realize what was really going on - that her Dad had actually abandoned her mom. That is a very difficult realization for kids. When they realize their mom (or dad) has been abandoned. She started to see the reality of the situation. That when she went to the beach with her dad and the OW her own mother was home with the other 3 kdis - running the boys to football practice, taking the younger daughter to baby sit. Her mom could not afford a trip to the beach - barely had enough gas money to get to work. But her dad and OW were partyign all the time. At first this daughter was attracted to the "fun Dad". But after about 3 weeks she realized that he was "fun dad" at moms expense.

The best thing any of us can do for our kids is be available for them. Be there when they get home from visiting the other parent, and open to talking, but not grilling them for details. Be the rock that they need - because their other parent is not.

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 849
F
Member
Offline
Member
F
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 849
Awesome post Womanoffaith, I hope Everhopeful is able to take that advice to heart. The other parent definitely isn't being any kind of a support system for the children.

I'd also be willing to bet the OW is to blame for a majority of the pushing things along faster in this situation. He has to jump at her every whim right now, wonder how long until that gets old? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />


Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Search
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 140 guests, and 97 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Overcomer4513, caraduke, Convict20, GTNY, Avianna
71,737 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums67
Topics133,550
Posts2,322,810
Members71,737
Most Online3,185
Jan 27th, 2020
Building Marriages That Last A Lifetime
Copyright © 1995-2020, Marriage Builders®. All Rights Reserved.  |  Web Development by SunStar Media.
Site Navigation
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5