I know that, eventually, I'll have to forgive TBXWW for what she did to me with her years of deceit and betrayal. I know that, when I'm ready, I'll have to do it for ME, so that I can say I don't like the past but it's far enough behind me that I'm at peace with it. I'm not there yet.

The difficulty, it seems to me, is that, when couples are reconciling after infidelity, if the WS is doing everything they can to help the BS to heal, forgiveness can happen much more easily -- the WS is doing things that make the BS want to forgive and helping to take some of the pain. They're suffering through the aftereffects together.

I never got that, except for two months in which I tried to keep TBXWW interested in reconciliation but was met with efforts that were halfhearted at best. So, when we split last November, I was left to deal with things on my own. I didn't have her working with me to heal or displaying any interest in rebuilding. So, in addition to resenting her for the deceit and betrayal, I also resent her for that. That led me to do some things I'm not sure I would have done otherwise, like tell my family and friends about her cheating -- from my perspective, since I couldn't talk to her about my feelings because she wanted out of the marriage, I had no choice but to talk to others who cared about me.

Dr. Harley talks about the WS "compensating" the BS for their forgiveness by working hard to meet emotional needs, breaking of contact with the OP, eliminating behaviour that led to the cheating, etc. But the BS doesn't get any of that compensation if the WS just wants out of marriage. And yet, the WS still often expects to be forgiven. By doing so in such circumstances, it seems like the BS is getting shortchanged. What is the BS who got cheated on getting as compensation for their forgiveness from the WS who wanted out of the marriage?

So, what this all boils down to: does forgiveness take longer, and is it harder to give, when there's divorce than where there is reconciliation?

<small>[ October 21, 2004, 04:06 PM: Message edited by: reservoirdog1 ]</small>

I think you are correct. Forgiveness is a process and I believe takes much longer unless the person truly wants to be forgiven and asks you for it. This never happened in my case.

I have forgiven myself, but not her, and I believe I never will forgive her....I know my heart and intentions were in the right place during our supposed "recovery" but I was duped by a lying, deceiptful person....and there never was a formal recovery plan since she obviously did not want the M.

So, I personally want to forget the entire 10 year M/13 year R but realize that is not possible..so I want to focus on me and MY future which is now at stake in the D. I am after every penny and hope to get it.

'Dog,

It depends on how YOU define forgiveness. If forgiveness for you is dependent on the offender's actions then it is going to take a long, long, time [if ever] to be able to grant it. But, if your definition of forgiveness is basically letting go of the anger, bitterness and overwhelming need for retribution, then forgiveness can be achieved relatively quick. For me, forgiveness was not dependent on my multiple affair XWW remorseful/non-remorseful behavior for I wanted my personal recovery to have nothing to do with her. I feel that this viewpoint of forgiveness allowed me to leave the anger and bitterness behind and move on with my life. Now I am remarried to a wonderful woman who I would have never met if I was still waiting for my XWW to show me her remorse for her cruel behavior.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> So, what this all boils down to: does forgiveness take longer, and is it harder to give, when there's divorce than where there is reconciliation? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ouch! That's a loaded question for a BS. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Be forwarned <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> I am speaking from a Bibical prespective here.

What keeps us from Forgiving?

We want to place blame and feel that in order to forgive, all wrongdoings have to be assigned to someone else.

We want perfect resolution and withhold our forgiveness because of this script we have in our minds. I remember telling my former wife that at the very mininum I expected an I'm sorry. Here we are 2 years later and it had still not happened. I expected her to come to me and ask forgiveness but I finally realized that I had to forgive if I ever wanted happiness and peace in my life. Once that forgiveness process began I understood that forgiveness is a gift for me and not really for her.

We want acknowledgement of our innocence, expically when it comes to affairs and abuse.

Last but not least we want to protect ourselves from futher pain but feel that by granting forgiveness we are really saying "I approve of what you did". God makes it quite clear that forgiving DOES NOT mean condoning their actions.

Jesus prayed, "Father, forgive them; they don't know what they're doing." Dividing up his clothes, they threw dice for them. (Luke 23:34 MSG)

If our WW's helped us, yes we could ofer that forgiveness a lot easier. It appears that a lot of BS's will not be entitled to that as like you stated, all they want to do is get out of the marriage.

So you beging that trip by yourself.

Hurt: Some think we should take all of this in stride. No! We still hurt and it is part of the process. Somewhere we go confused but the Bible never tells us that if we are hurt that we are not supposed to feel it. We do FEEL it.

Hate: Is it Godly to hate? Nope. But it's there anyway. That memory of how much we are hurt just never seems to leave us. Sometimes we rehears scripts in our minds of what we will say or what we could do to make them hurt just as we do. So go ahead and hate, it too is part of the process.

Healing: As the process of forgiveness continues we come to a point where we see this person in a new light. Our memory heals and we begin to turn back the flow of pain. I heard a song on the radio the other day and the I remembered when my former sang it as a solo in Church years ago. My "magic eyes" now see her in a different light.

Reconciling: This if the FIRST STEP that actually requires 2 people. You invite them back into your life. If repentance has taken place then honesty and love can move the two into a new relationship. But...if there was no repentance on either part of the two this may never take place. Sometimes they never come back and we have to heal alone. but we do get healed as the forgiveness settles into our hearts and minds.

So back to your question of does it take longer?

That depends on you. How long do you want the bitterness and hurt to stay with you. Forgiveness only requires the effort of one person, it's the effort of two that's needed for reconciliation.

My therapist told me this when I was meeting with her during the affair:

Let others be wrong.

I don't know that this is about forgiveness so much as it is about not allowing offenses against you to destroy your life but to be able to move on.

Cherished

Cherished... I hear what you're saying. I won't allow TBXWW's actions to destroy my life (although, like every other BS out there, in the early days it certainly felt like that had happened). I've picked up the pieces of the desecrated marriage and am well into rebuilding my own life. I have great friends, a great family, two wonderful kids, I'm at the beginning of a fulfilling career, and there's lots to look forward to.

I know that, by not being able to forgive TBXWW for myself, there is some part of me, however small, that's being held back in the past. I don't envy her, because by comparison she has the weight of massive guilt, shame, antipathy, and a damaged reputation dragging behind her. I just feel that, in order to forgive, I'm going to need to be more at peace with what happened and further along in my rebuilding, which is going well but is still a work in progress.

Either that, or I'll one day realize that I genuinely don't give a damn about the past anymore and forgiveness is something that can be given easily.

But my question still stands: for those that have been there, is it easier to forgive during reconciliation than during divorce?

<small>[ October 23, 2004, 09:09 PM: Message edited by: reservoirdog1 ]</small>