I've tried to be the ultimate in civil and helpful in this DV process (including many, many conversations with OW because it's the only way I can get answers). There are a number of issues that need to be resolved before the final decree can be written up and I'm having a devil of a time pinning down STBXH to get them resolved.

So...I sent STBXH a text msg a couple days ago (because he won't pick up my calls or return my voice messages):

"Flu all gone? Need to talk to you about lots of stuff. Farm specifics, attny fees for 401k split, fee to get you off my parents' life estate, satellite receiver, son's college $, son's dental bills, son's car, pool table in our garage, your mail that has come to the house, and Christmas. Think those are the main ones. When can we get together-phone or in person?"

Okay...I admit it was a little overwhelming, but these are issues that have been building, so I thought I'd just give him all of them and then he'd be prepared and we could take care of them all at once.

His first response back:

"We can talk in person but you have to come over here. Do you have the signed, dated letter OW gave you?"

(That msg seemed strange coming from STBXH. Found out just minutes ago from OW that SHE wrote it on his phone because she wants to be involved in all our discussions.)

When I got the message, I text'd back that I would come over there, but that OW needed to go on a drive or something because I felt these issues were between the two of us. I asked if we could get together today or tomorrow.

I got STBXH's response today:

"What is your f***ing rush? D*MN"

Well, apparently I'm a little tense, because my patience flew out the window at that one. Here I am trying my best to keep everything happy and calm and flowing smoothly, and then that's what I get from him.

(First, I admit I wondered if it was a sign that I should stall the DV after all, but then I decided the attitude was all hateful and I just got p*ssed!)

So I fired back at him...

Msg #1: "Guess it's your call on the 401k. I won't have attny start paperwork until I have a guarantee you're paying for it. The rush in son's dental is because I need the $. Also need daughter's orthy $. College-need a commitment from you on what to expect because you said you'd pay and you haven't."

Msg #2: "Christmas-I want kids from 5pm Christmas eve to 1pm or so Christmas day. (There, one item off list already!)"

Msg #3: Son's car-don't worry about it. Now that I have my car back, no one will need his til December. I can take part of your xmas bonus I get for child support and fix his car. (Two items resolved. Can you tell I'm angry?)"

Msg #4: "Satellite receiver-keep it. Card has been inactivated in my records. Only paying for service for one now and don't miss tv in bdrm."

Msg #5: "Pool table needs to be out of garage B4 snow flies. Lets say gone by mid-November or I will look for a buyer."

Msg #6: "Mail-you have several things at the house including one from Com Fed that looks like a bank card. I will get it to you tomorrow."

Then I proceeded to leave him a voice message telling him that I was trying to make things run smoothly and didn't appreciate his angry tone.

Then I called OW and went over everything with her as well. Told her that I was trying to keep things rolling and he seemed to be dragging his feet.

She says he's frustrated because they just paid off the remainder of their upcoming Paris trip and now they don't have any extra $. (Oh boo hoo...no more fun $ left from the proceeds from his truck accident.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )

So....now I'm just frustrated in general. Wish I had a partner to lean on. Don't. Wish I had answers for college funding. Don't. OW is going to send me 1/2 of what they owe on son's dental bill so that's progress.

On one hand, I'm really sad about the whole DV and all. On the other hand, I'm ready for it all to just be over.

LL

<small>[ November 07, 2004, 02:04 AM: Message edited by: lordslady ]</small>

What would I do?
If I were you, I would not ask "When can we get together to discuss these matters?" In other words, I would skip your step one and just proceed to your step 2 and start resolving the issues. By adding the additional requirement agreeing on a meeting, you giving him more opportunities to frustrate you. If you had just started in on the solutions, you would have the same results, without the extra frustration.
My 2 cents.

What I did:
WxW got hateful and stupid about business matters, wanted everything handled through attorneys. So thats what we did, piddly stuff that we easily could have handled ourselves went through 2 attorneys. It cost her $$$, it cost me $$$ and attorneys made $$$$. The upside to it was that there was little stress, I didn't have to talk or listen to the crazy B. OM wasn't involved, if he had been I wouldn't have discussed anything with him. If you can stand talking to OW you are bending over backwards to be cooperative and a way bigger person than I could ever be.

STBXH doesn't have an attny. He wanted to keep costs down. I'm okay with that because if he doesn't have an attorney, my attny fees are less, too (because they're not bickering back and forth on things at $200/hour!).

I don't like talking to OW, but I feel sometimes there's no choice. If I want something handled and that is the only way it will get done, so be it.

Yes, in hindsight Curious is correct...I should have just handled some of those things up front the way I did today via text messaging and not asked him at all.

But there are still unresolved issues that I'm not sure how to get resolved:

1) He gets 1/2 of my 401K (or some equitable split, and I've settled on half just because I choose not to fight) per Iowa law in a no-fault DV. It's a hefty chunk-o-change. My attny said it should be his attny who prepares the QDRO that has to do be done to split the thing. Since he doesn't have an attny, mine will do it, but I do not feel I should pay the fee to hand him half of my retirement. I'm waiting on a guarantee (or better yet, the $ in hand) before I have the paperwork started.

2) College funding for son (and possibly for daughter, though that's highly doubtful given her current situation in the alternative school). I need an amount committed to. Perhaps the solution here is to pick an amount, have my attny put it in the final decree, and then see if STBXH agrees and signs the decree or not.

Other than that, the items we need to agree on are all piddly. Of course this afternoon he fired back couple of texts to me. He wants his arrowheads, his cowboy books, and some pictures or something. I almost asked if he'd like me to have the attorney add his nitpicky items to the decree as well, but I was kind and just sent a message saying I'd gather them together for him.

So...you guys don't think I'm being a bad STBXW for not wanting to have OW sitting in and adding her 2 cents when WH and I discuss things? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> (My opinion--she's scared to let him out of her sight because their relationship isn't nearly as solid and trusting and happy as she'd like me to think it is.)

I think I may be getting sick. I'm feeling rather tired and achy. I'm generally not this testy.

LL

you guys don't think I'm being a bad STBXW for not wanting to have OW sitting in and adding her 2 cents when WH and I discuss things?

Uh...NO! You are not bad at all. It sounds like you are right on track.

My D went in a similar fashion. I would say "after 18 years of marriage, if you are determined to throw me away so quickly, I expect you to sit down with me, in the same room, and give me at least 1 hour of your time to discuss this."
Each time he would agree that we "should"talk, but not now, not today, not this weekend. His excuse was always "I'm too busy right now" or "I have things I have to do this weekend" (most of the time, the "things he had to do" involved babysitting OW's children)

So I started doing what you are doing right now. I would say "I am going to have my atty write up the paper work to reflect XYZ....If you have a problem, let me know right away. he would have some small thing (like---his high school yearbooks). I would pack up anything he asked for, and drop them off at his moms. Next day, I would say "ok, is this what you want?"
Went on like that for about a month before he finally said "yes, that is fine. I have everything I want." My atty drew up the papers - he stopped by her office to sign - I signed - the papers were filed.
It was a shame that he could not drag himself away from OW for 1 hour to talk to me. After 18 years of M I deserved that - but he was never going to do it.

If your WH or the OW think for 1 minute that she should somehow be involved in the final negotiations of the destruction of your family - they are friggin nuts. Next time either one of them suggests that she should be involved, remind your WH that she has had quite enough involvement in the destruction of your family, thank you very much.

Dear Lordslady,

Are you or were you farmers? You mentioned farm specifics. Just wondering. I can't imagine how much chaos would be involved in a DV on a farm.

My best yo you!
Danneill

WOF5,

he would have some small thing (like---his high school yearbooks)

Yep, my STBXH actually mentioned those as one of the requests in his text today!

Next time either one of them suggests that she should be involved, remind your WH that she has had quite enough involvement in the destruction of your family,

And why can I never think of things like this when I'm actually talking to her!?!

Danniell,

Are you or were you farmers?

No, not farmers. Live in the city now, but I grew up on a farm and the "farm" referred to is actually just an acreage at this point. When my grandmother died several years ago, I asked my dad to sell me a few acres that included her house and some acres around it before he sold the actual farmable land. The property was just down the road from my original home and I spent a lot of time with that grandmother growing up.

So, we've had 6.78 acres in rural Iowa for years and have done nothing with it. The house which sat vacant for the years grandma was in the nursing home and for the years that we've owned the property would take thousands of $ to make livable. It would be better to have it torn down. It has little value. I have the property more for the memories.

However, in order to make the split of our assets equitable and in order for me not to have to pay STBXH a bunch of equity out of our current house (because we did have a decent amount of equity when I refinanced), I have agreed to hand over the acreage to him in leiu of handing over $$ from the refinancing. But...I want written into the decree that if he ever decides to sell the acreage, I have first shot at purchasing it back.

I agree..I would hate to have to split a farm or any other business in a DV!

LL

I hope you get that land back someday. Those memories will never be forgotten. My best childhood memories are of my dear Grandmother & Grandfather. They were very special.

With first rights of refusal on your property I hope you have the option of buying it back at it's current value rather than in the future. Not sure about Iowa but here ( father east in the midwest)land values are really climbing. Considered a "mini farm" is in big demand.

Danneill

Lords Lady,

I wish I could be there for you to lean on. I wouldn't say I would be a "partner" but I know what you mean and how it feels. In fact I could have used someone to lean on last night myself.

Everytime I talk ti STBX it's like I'm talking to a wall and nothing is getting done. I too am trying to move things along as smoothly as possible but sometimes you have to just say "commom already" Regardless of anything, there is no reason for him to be rude or disrespectfull to you.

We try to make the decissions mutual, but thats not possible when the other is incapable of making a mature decission. Time to just stand up and say "this is how it is"

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Since he doesn't have an attny, mine will do it, but I do not feel I should pay the fee to hand him half of my retirement </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Then don't! If he's not willing to do something about it then it must not mean enough to him!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> College funding for son (and possibly for daughter, though that's highly doubtful given her current situation in the alternative school). </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Can you have his share of the 401k cover this. I know I can take loans against mine. Have your lawyer write it up that way!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So...you guys don't think I'm being a bad STBXW for not wanting to have OW sitting in and adding her 2 cents when WH and I discuss things? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It doesn't sound to me like any of this involves her so there is no reason for her to be there. It is personal and private between you and X. If he feels the need to share it with her, he can on his time, not yours!

WIWH

Totally not the topic of my last posts...but since the title does say "venting", and I'm having a "negative-attitude" day, I feel the need to share with any of you reading this what an upstanding, classy woman STBXH's "babe" is!

My daughter (who dresses in really STRANGE clothes and currently has blue hair) shared this vision of OW that she was graced with on Monday.

OW picks up my daughter from school on MWF and I do T/TH. Apparently my daughter didn't come out right away so OW went in to get her.

This woman who has more than once insinuated that I am not a good mother to my daughter, came prancing in the school, greasy hair, in a wife-beater tank top, chopped off into a short crop top. She was, as always, braless, with her ta-ta's nearly hanging out the bottom of the shirt because they're apparently good and saggy. As my daughter said, her flabby belly was hanging out--I'm sure to show off the everpresent belly button ring.

My daughter, who is difficult to embarrass, said the woman at the office desk just rolled her eyes when she walked in.

Granted--at 39 with 2 kids, I don't have the toned figure of a model. And I don't have any ta-ta's to flaunt! But even if I did, I can't see myself going out in public like that all the time. And it's a regular occurrance for her.

(Of course this is also the woman who told me she wished my son would get out and really enjoy his college days...experience the parties and stuff...instead of just hanging out in his dorm. Gosh, that'd be a shame if he actually DIDN'T become a partying alcoholic like his father is, wouldn't it!?)

Okay, I need to simmer down now! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

LL

I've followed you here from GQII but not posted because I don't have much experience in the D/D (yet).

BUT, I want to point something out to you that has bothered me about this last string of posts. Like the M, you seem to be doing more than your share of the work, STOP IT! If he is so gung-ho about leaving the M, make him do it.

Just a suggestion, but what I would do is have your lawyer write up a D decree with much of what you have said (and yes, include in there that he will receive the cowboy books, and arrowheads). I would NOT include a split of your 401K AT ALL. Send him the decree and then he'll sign it or not, he'll get angry about what is in it and what is not, and will feel pressure from OW to sign it so they can get M <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />


The burden of what HE gets out of the M is up to HIM, not from the great mother (you) to give to him. If he is not happy with the D decree, THEN he can change it. Include in it what YOU want. I repeat, I would NOT include in the decree ANYTHING aobut your 401K plan....yes, according to Iowa law he would be entiteld to it...if he contested it...and if you went before a judge...those are some BIG IF's. Don't just rollover in this mess.

Remember, you are looking out for the welfare of 3 people in all this...not 4. He can take care of himself.

Echoing SHMI's post!

Tell your lawyer "Write it all up, be generous to me."

Your H (and OW) will probably make greedy whining noises but I doubt they'll ever really *do* much. The most they'll do is manoeuver for some quick cash for some short-term gratification.

Your attorney will present something legal and reasonable. They can agree to it or not.

Dear LL:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> ) He gets 1/2 of my 401K (or some equitable split, and I've settled on half just because I choose not to fight) per Iowa law in a no-fault DV. It's a hefty chunk-o-change. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Why no-fault DV? Didn't your H abandon you? Yes, you filed, but for a reason. What does your state law say about adultery? In NJ here that is a reason for DV, you need OW address and proof etc. And then you keep your $$$... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

All the best,

Yes, he did abandon the kids and I. And he is actively involved in an adulterous relationship. So in my eyes he IS at fault!

But here in this state, and I understand in the majority of states, it really doesn't matter who did what. You can get DV for any and all reasons--all you have to say is your M is beyond repair and that's it. Doesn't matter if your spouse committed adultry, left you, took all your money, or burnt the house down (well, that last one might get them thrown in jail)...all assets acquired during the marriage are still split "equitably".

That could mean 55/45, I suppose, or if you have a really sympathetic judge, even 60/40. But you take your chances. And if we agree on everything, we don't even go before a judge. We just sign the final decree, the attorney files it with the court, and it's done.

Strange...

LL

LL,

It is amazing at what can be a reason for D these days isn't it!

There is no reason for you to have to drag it out to being before a judge to decide, but whats to say that he won't agree to what the others have said to have your lawyer present to him.

I agree that if OW is so involved, she may put pressure on him to get it over.

Basically, make him an offer! If he accepts, great!

Worse case is he freaks again or counter offers.

If he doesn't even have a lawyer, you're not going to a judge on an initial proposition.

Do you think that he is looking to get 1/2 of everything or are you just being nice?

My opinion is that if you are already having trouble getting him to commit to costs related to your kids, you will always have problems with this type of thing. Try to cover you and your kids future now.

Keep YOUR 401k. Give him the things he asked for!

If I had A greasy haired woman, braless in a wife-beater cut off shirt putting a paper down in front of me saying "Just sign the damn thing"

I would feel pretty intimidated regardless of what the paper said <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Especialy after I saw that she had the Ba!!s to get the flabby belly pierced <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

WIWH

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Do you think that he is looking to get 1/2 of everything or are you just being nice?
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yes, and in a way, yes.

He's gone so far as to tell me he wants things like the antique lamp in our basement (WRONG! It belonged to my grandmother and I'm sure she would have wanted ME to have it!). He frequently tells me he's been kind and hasn't removed 1/2 of everything from the house. Yes, he (with OW's constant prodding, I'm sure), wants 1/2 of everything--or more if he can get it.

Am I being nice? Yes. While I'm angry about what he has done, I am beyond being tired of fighting. I have no fight left. I just want things to be peaceful and for us to end up on civil terms, even if it means I give up some of the things I want.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Especialy after I saw that she had the Ba!!s to get the flabby belly pierced </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Yeah, some things are just plain wrong! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

LL

Ask your lawyer to write up a nice decree that gives you all of your 401K and offers them a nice settlement of INSTANT cash (sell things if you have to). Perhaps make an offer of NO CS payments and no college $ (that's got to be worth big bucks). That serves 2 purposes, he'll see a big chunk of money burden off his back every month (and so will OW) and you won't have to deal with him to pay this or that. Give him the land, and tell him you want to do it this way so you have no more to deal with each other... And you want to do it fast in case he and OW have plans (OW will like that).

Hi LL:

I looked it up in Google: you live "unfortunately" in a strictly "no-fault" state. Here is a link to a listing for all states and what grounds for DV are accepted:

Fault-No Fault DV by State

Ugh! Anger! Bad words! Frustration! Wish I weren't the only one home right now. Really could use someone here to help me cool my jets.

It's amazing how tiny little things sometimes are the worst. What's the issue? STBXH changed his cell # and failed to inform me. I found out by accident, because I left both he and OW a message asking to have him call his father (poor guy actually called ME today to find out if his own son was still among the living).

OW called me to ask what # I was leaving messages on for STBXH. That's when I found out he has a new freakin' "secret" number. He called me earlier today from the phone at the shop where he works--I thought that was odd. But he said his cell was on the fritz and that he wasn't getting voice messages on a timely basis.

Big FREAKIN' LIER! He didn't have the balls to tell me that he changed his number. And why? Not sure. OW says it's because he can't stand to hear my voice. Uh...I don't call him. He calls me. I do send a few texts, but they are not threatening or angry unless he provokes me first.

Okay, now I'm REALLY provoked! Why would a dad refuse to give his phone number to the mother of his children? OW says to me, "You have a way to get ahold of him. You can call me."

Forget that! I'm done. I flew off the handle at her. Told her if he doesn't have the guts to tell me he changed the number, don't expect me to make this DV an easy process. She claims I haven't already. Uh...how's that? I'm giving him almost everything he asks for, right down to 50% of my 401K.

But now, perhaps not. I called her a bar wh**e. She told me I was a dead f**k in bed. It got much uglier than that. I am very afraid--there is a particular video tape from many years ago that I allowed him to make of us (while under the influence of much wine) because he wanted to. We were getting along great at the time and I thought why not...we're husband and wife. It's just for us.

Well he took that tape with him--found it missing after he moved out. Found out tonight he's shown it to her. I told her that if it ever gets out, I will KILL HIM! She said, "so you want me to pass that along?" Yep!!

She slammed the size of my chest (or lack thereof). I slammed her for being saggy. She accused me of having an A with STBXH's freaky friend from south of here. That thought nearly makes me gag, but apparently they both think something happened down there one night (and have probably passed that assumption around to his family and friends.)

Then I told her, that "equitable" splitting of assets doesn't have to mean 50/50. Told her that I think 60/40 sounds better on the retirement plan, and if he doesn't like it, perhaps he doesn't have to sign the divorce decree. Told her that I WILL have the financing of college written into the decree and again, he can choose whether or not to sign. Told her that perhaps I just won't have the final decree prepared at all--that perhaps I'll just sit on all this. Why do I need to be DV? Why do I need to play nice? It's HIM who wants out, right?

I let very bad words fly. I said awful things about what they do together (and even sicker, she said, "Yes, he does do that with me.") I took the Lord's name in vain a couple times in extreme anger.

I feel very un-Christian. I also know that deep down I still love this man who I am making all the threats against, and that now with these horrific LB's that will be even more spun out of proportion by OW, I have blown not only all chances for any future reconciliation should he pull his head out of the dark place, but I have blown away the chance of anything civil.

I also know that he is vindictive enough to withhold payment for our son's college (because he's already angry at our son for not communicating with him) and that our son will most likely blame me for it happening (because after all, I didn't need to get all immature and blow up).

I am SO hurting and SO angry and just SO wanting to talk to STBXH personally right now. But I can't. I don't have his #. I only have OW's!

UG!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

LL

LL,

Boy, do I know how you feel. Fortunately, we didn't have any kids in the mix, so that was a lot easier. But even after the divorce was final, I was dealing with issues like this.

Although we each kept a vehicle in the divorce, when the divorce was final, both vehicles were still in both of our names. This was because XH had bought a truck for OW (before I even knew about affair, and took out 5 year loan to do it!), and just didn't put insurance on it for over a year. This meant that he racked up huge fines at the MVA, and MVA absolutely refused to do anything with anything that had his name on it until the fines were taken care of, or at least until a payment plan was in place and he had paid at least 20% of the fines (including interest on the fines for not being paid for so long.)

I still had some things of his that he wanted back desperately, and I refused to give them to him until the car issue was straightened out. Why? Because I was still paying the insurance on his car. At the beginning, he was paying me for the insurance - mainly because it was next to nothing because the care was not drivable. He finally managed to get the money to fix the car (and pay for a horse for OW's daughter, but I digress...) but not to take care of these fines so I could be completely finished with him. That meant the insurance went up, so he claimed he had gotten his own insurance, and refused to pay me for the insurance anymore. Problem is, given his track record, I didn't trust him not to drop the insurance once I had no longer had control over it. If he did that, I would have racked up huge fines with MVA (not to mention possible litigation liability if he'd been in an accident) because I couldn't get my name off his freaking car because he didn't feel the need to take care of his issues.

Can you tell this one still riles me up?

We finally set a date to go to the MVA together. I told him I didn't want OW there. He promised he wouldn't bring her. And of course, he did.

I spent the day with loud-mouthed trailer trash screaming in my face how I was breaking the law (?!?) by not giving him his stuff, and they were going to drag me to court. And they both got really loud and obnoxious when I told her she needed to stay out of it, that it was absolutely none of her business. They informed me that it WAS her business because she was MAKING it her business. (Again WTF!!??!?!??!?)

The thing is - I signed papers with HIM, not with HER. Her name did not appear on anything I agreed to, and, despite the fact that they both liked to tell me frequently that they practically WERE married, they weren't. None of her freaking business whatsoever!

Unfortunately, all I really wanted to do was get them both out of my life forever. I think the biggest part of it is that she is finally realizing who in our family was the one with the money sense that kept the bills paid and still managed to be able to get a lot of the things we wanted, and it wasn't him. On top of it, I was pissed after realizing that I spent all those years really scraping to pay for everything, while he was claiming being broke, making quite a bit more money than I realized (everytime I tried to get an answer on how much money he made, he was very vague, and I could never get a straight answer), and evidently spending most of what he made and going into debt besides spending on... well, to tell the truth, I still don't really know, other than the last couple of year of our marriage, it was OW.

Anyway, I swallowed it, cried most of the way through the day (which I'm sure tickled both of them to no end) and got through it. I still refused to deal with her though, no matter how much she shoved herself in my face. And in the end, he had to pay over $500 in fines that day, with a lot more to come on a payment plan, and I finally got myself completely free of him. Gave him the rest of his stuff (except for a few things which I hadn't put in the storage unit where I had moved his stuff, because it was stuff like records that I was afraid would be ruined by the heat.)

And to top it off, they started screaming at me about "where were his records." I'd had enough being screamed at and treated like crap for one day. I had originally planned to go to the house with him and give them to him once the car was taken care of, but not with her in tow, and not after I'd already put up with a full day of being treated like that. I told him he had everything that was written on a piece of paper saying I would give it to him (which was true) and left.

Whew...sorry about that. It got a lot longer than I'd planned. Funny how something like that can turn into a good vent, huh?

Anyway, the point is... I held my ground. I never agreed to have her involved in my life or my financial affairs in any way, shape, or form. I never agreed to have to deal with her. Since we have no kids, there is no reason I SHOULD ever have to deal with her. But somehow, they think that because they interfered with the marriage, they can get involved in all kinds of other stuff too. But I didn't agree to that, so I wasn't going to put up with it.

I'm actually glad to see you starting to get kind of mad about this LL. I thought previously that giving him half your 401K was overly generous. Didn't he work? Didn't he have any kind of retirement? Maybe I'm assuming too much here... was the 401K a joint account for you, or did you each have your own retirement accounts set up? Or was this your account, and he just didn't have one, and if so, why not? And why should he get so much of the land you inherited?

I know you may not have much choice about a lot of that, that if it goes to court he may just get half of everything regardless. But me - I realized I was the one who made all the effort to have the things we had, while he spent money he made elsewhere (he didn't give me as much money a month as a ROOMATE would have!) And the thought of him taking my hard work and just giving it to the trailer trash he walked out on me for was more than I could take. So I didn't give up anything without getting something first. Everytime he needed something (and he'd gotten himself into a lot of debt, so he needed stuff) I would give up something insignificant to me, and make sure I got him to sign off on something important to me. We settled out of court, and I kept the condo, he really only wanted "his" stuff out of the condo for the most part, so I kept the furniture and all the stuff I would have had to buy again if he had taken it. We each kept our own retirement. We each kept our own vehicle. And, as described above, I held his feet over the fire to live up to his obligations so I could be free and clear of him. Now, he can do what he wants; it won't affect me.

I know many posters here advocate making him do everything with the hopes of saving the marriage. But only you know whether or not there's a marriage to save. And I believe once they've lost their minds this way, it leaves it up to you to protect your family as best you can. To me, that means NOT letting him just have whatever he wants so he can go off and waste it. Even though the family left was just me, I felt it was right to protect myself against his harmful actions. I feel it is even more so that way for you, since you have kids to protect too.

You may have to give more than is fair, simply because the law isn't fair. And it probably is going to be better (both emotionally and financially) in the long run to get less if it means not having a judge split things, and you can settle out of court. But I wouldn't give up any more than I had to if I were you. And the suggestions about buying him out of things, if necessary, are great. Look at what's worth more in the long term.

The one thing you do need to do though is try to go back to being civil. I understand how hard that is, and I slipped on more than one occasion myself. But... he is refusing to deal with you? Refuse to deal with her. State it like I did - my business is not with you. I did not agree to anything or sign any papers with you, and you have no business in this matter. I guarantee your lawyer will tell you you don't have to negotiate with HER on these things. Just tell her that your lawyer will be contacting HIM. And believe me, that's the only person your lawyer will deal with - him or his lawyer, not the fling of the moment.