You know, posting about this, I feel very guilty.....I don't have children, I don't have custody issues, I don't even have a stupid house to worry about.....all I've got are my emotions.....I don't know if that's better or worse....

Tonight has been awful. Today has been awful. Triggers all over the place about M and H. Gas stations, hotels, grocery stores, pictures, EVERYTHING. On top of that, I've had to address the trigger that's been my nemesis since we've separated. College Football.

May seem trivial to some, but for the past 10 years, I've watched our college religiously with my H. It was the one thing in our M which never degraded to cruelty or pain. I have not watched at all this season. It was too painful. Today, I had an invitation from some friends (whom I had not spoken to since they heard of my A) to watch our game.....I think they were trying to make amends with me. I tried to go.....was exhausted from a neuro symposium I presented at this morning, and just couldn't emotionally or physically do it. So I cancelled.

I came home and napped - then turned on the TV, and guess what was on - our game. It turned off, and just completely triggered. I wanted to die - to sleep for at least a few years until this feeling was over. I felt/feel so overwhelmed by sadness, the memory, the hope, the dream. I miss sleeping with my H, I miss having someone to cuddle with. I miss falling asleep on the couch, and having someone move me to the bed. God bless, I miss being held.

I know (cognitively) that it is better this way. My H did not respect me - even before my A. He has said that he would never have changed had I not had the A. But he also said he will never be able to forgive me or respect me again because of my A. I'm not sure what to think about that, but I guess it just means that we would have been miserable anyway.......

I know it is better with us getting a divorce. I know he is happier, and I love him, so let him go, right? I have fought for him for years.....particularly after the A, I plan A'd like H*LL. I love who I think he can be. But he does not want to be that person. And usually I can accept that.

But I am triggering tonight, and hate life. I want to just sleep until I can't feel anything anymore. I hate times like this. I hope these feelings part soon because I don't want to remain paralyzed with my sadness. I am paying the ultimate consequence for my sins, and I accept that. I have to - I made the choice. But I am learning, and I am changing myself so that those same patterns will not be repeated.

But just having a real struggle with the pain tonight. I would give anything just to have a person who wanted to hold me while I cried. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

L.I.T,

No need to feel guilty. Emotions are emotions. It will get better with time.

LIT, I hope it does get a little better for you soon!

This is what I call a "survival" night. The goal is simply to remain alive remembering that tomorrow won't be as bad.

Try a funny book. I like A Confederacy of Dunces for just about any kind of emotional pain. It's funny wihout triggers. Unless LSU or Tulane happen to be your college. It's set in NOLA.

I'm sending you hugs and a shoulder. Female, which is admittedly second best. But, hey. You can cry on my shoulder and I won't expect you to do anything in return.

John,

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> I think I will feel guilty no matter what. My probems are really so minimal compared to others. And then again, there is the guilt that I feel from having the A. Honestly, that is the price I will always pay for the choice I made. I have to pay that price. And I will honor that debt. Regardless. I will try not to live in it's shadow, but the day I forget about this debt, will be the day that I forget about who I want to be.....

Don't know if that makes sense.....horribly emotional tonight.

GG - <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> Female or not, that is the best offer, I have had in many months - maybe even years. Thank you for being a shoulder. Just needed to cry and mourn tonight, I guess. I suppose it happens. Just hurts, ya know? Thank you. Really. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />

PS - GG - Tulane and LSU not it.....Texas A&M Aggies instead. Sad, because with the exception of Baylor, we had been doing quite well this year. Haven't seen the score from tonight's game yet. When I turned it on and then off (within the 1/2 second) we were tied, 28-28.....haven't had the heart yet to see whether we won or lost. Not really important anyway, I guess.

<small>[ November 06, 2004, 09:54 PM: Message edited by: L.I.T ]</small>

You shouldnt try to compae your problems to other people. You had a long history with your H. Its going to take an emotional toll. In some ways NOT having the rest makes it even harder. I have my 2 boys to keep my mind off whats going on.

Thanks, John. I tell my patients the same thing everyday. But at the same time, I can see that I at least only have my feelings to worry about.....bittersweet I suppose. I just know how much more difficult it has to be with children involved. Knowing that most people not only feel what I feel, but also having to cope with their children's pain.....I can't even fathom....

I have the utmost respect. I guess that's why I feel guilty - knowing that I only have 1/2 the issues. The other part of it is my Catholic upbringing....Catholic guilt can be very overwhelming at times <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

Thank you and GG for being here tonight. Just one of those times, and I can't be more appreciative. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />

<small>[ November 06, 2004, 10:04 PM: Message edited by: L.I.T ]</small>

Well, maybe 1/2 the issues, but you also dont have the emotiuonal support from a child hugging you saying it will be ok.

I dont know if Im helping at all. But trust me, it gets better.

John,

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" /> You are helping more than you know. Just by being here tonight. I don't break down very often, but when I do, it's a doozy (pouty face - they don't have that emoticon).

I am very glad that H and I don't have children for the express reason that they won't get hurt. But I do hope that I find someone in time to have children. It's one "desire" that has increased since the D. I think my M was so toxic, that I (subconsciously) did not want to bring them into that situation.

But I do know that on a whole (in spite of tonight's feelings) I love life, and want to share the wonders of existence with the next generation. Just a dream right now, but hopefully I will find the right person in the future.

Really, thank you for being here tonight. It really means a lot to know someone is listening. (need a thank you - I'm in great gratitude to you - icon here <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> )

Children are a great addition to life under the right conditions. I am sure you will find someone in time. I dont know if this is good or bad, but my mom didnt have me till she was 45. ( and had tubes tied 5 years prior )

On a personal note, you said you had a neuro symposium today. What do you do for a living? If I may ask.

You said you did plan A, how long did that last?

Have you tried plan B?

I am a neurophysiologist - I monitor the brain and spinal cord during surgery, and then also do diagnostic tests such as EEG and evoked potentials for seizures, multiple sclerosis, and other neuro disorders.

Plan A I did for 1 year and 2 months. Plan B I have done, but it has not been responsive. I had separated from H in August b/c he had a closer "connection" to a female friend than he did me. And he said he could trust her and could not trust me, so he would not give up their friendship. I separated b/c I told him that if we were going to work on our M, we could not have his relationship with another female be more important and significant that his and mine.

He maintained that they were 'only friends' until I found e-mails on his computer. They were pretty graphic about what he wanted with her. Most of it was emotional - but an EA clearly. At that point, I started plan B, but it might have been too late. He said he wanted a D ASAP, and has not backed down on that desire. Our D should be final by the end of the month (or year) if we both get our paperwork in.

Last I heard from him (we still speak regarding business issues - $$ and titles, etc), he had stopped speaking much to her, but still did not wish to reconcile with me.

We had a lot of issues in our M such as possible alcohol abuse (on his part), his controlling nature, his anger, and my infidelity - to mention just the primary issues. I realize that we were codependent on each other, and he is unable to recover with me. I respect that, and would rather him recover period - even if it is not with me. But unfortunately I still grieve what I think we could have had.

Thank you for the confidence regarding children. I am 29, so I know I have a little while. But it's that magic age of 35 that you worry about with regards to defects, etc. Although my aunt also had a child at 42, so you are right - entirely possible.

Thank you for being here tonight.

Interesting line of work. Beats mine. lol

With time you may be able to overcome the problems and work it out. Its a good sign if he isnt talking to her much. When did you split up?

I know it doesnt seem like it now, but time can work wonders.

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> It's not as flattering as it seems. OR hours can be gruelling, and the on-call schedule is less than desired. But I love what I do, and it is usually worth it!

I agree with you that time can help. I just can't bank on it at this moment. I must proceed with the notion that he does not want this M. And honestly, with his controlling and emotionally derrogatory nature, I doubt that he would be able to trust me again. I realized a while back that I was actually similar to the "OW" from his previous relationship. How his last relationship ended, and how we got together was remarkably similar (OK, identical <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ) to his EA now.

He says he does not talk to her much now, but he still does not feel any remorse for wanting to spend the rest of his life with her, and wanting her to move in with him. Nor is he willing to give up their friendship. Time may yield different results, and if they do, I will consider. But I at least know now (which I did not during my M) my own boundaries - and that I should fight for intimacy and love in the M. That was my half of the damage. I did not believe that I deserved emotional intimacy or to be treated in a "loving" manner during the M....I wanted it, but did not know how to stand up for myself.

I have learned a lot from this situation - as horrible as it has been. And whether my future R be with H or with another man, I hope to be able to implement these findings. I know one thing for sure. Having had the experience of an A - NOTHING - I repeat - NOTHING is worth the pain that it causes. I was vulnerable, I was ignorant, I was naive. I gave in. I will never be ignorant or naive again. I am vulnerable now, but it is not the road I choose.

It's been hard to learn this, but I am much more secure in myself without H. And I also know what is healthy and what isn't. Our M was in no way healthy - if he were able to show by actions that he wanted to work on us - great. But I'm no longer holding hope <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> . I will mourn and move on. He is not a bad person - he just can't recover with me - by his own admission. I can't deny him his recovery. I still love him too much. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I think I'm headed off to bed.....been a long emotional night (thanks for talking....helped a lot), and I have a STAT EEG at 7:30am. Not at all looking forward to the alarm! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

This line bothered me a little; " I did not believe that I deserved emotional intimacy or to be treated in a "loving" manner during the M....I wanted it, but did not know how to stand up for myself. " What caused you to feel that way?

Hi John....

One of my big faults in the M was that I took on too much responsibility. Basically the responsibility for my H being happy. It actually started about 2 years into our R (we have been married only 5, but together for 10).

At the 2 year mark in our R, H had an EA (maybe PA, but not sure). At the time, neither H nor I knew what an EA was, and although he had put up the "wall" toward me, and let this OW fill his life (he was in a different city doing an internship), he kept saying he was "doing nothing wrong." My gut knew otherwise, though. I would wake up vomitting in the mornings, I would cry knowing he forgot (or chose not) to call. He stopped asking me to visit. When I did visit, he would forget that I was coming and be 3 hrs late b/c he went to dinner with her and another friend. Etc. Etc. I knew something was wrong, but since he said he never touched her, couldn't figure out what it was. I thought I was just 'overreacting' or 'being jealous' just like H would tell me. <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" />

So I took responsibility for it. I figured that if he is interested in this OW, then I must not have been meeting his needs. When he returned, he went through what I now know is withdrawal - moodiness, sadness, anger, introversion. But during that time, I felt I had to make him happy again. So I changed myself to be everything that I thought he wanted. I lost myself, and became a 'puppet' of what he wanted. Our R/M then degraded into anger, control, derrogatory remarks by him, and general unhappiness. He was unhappy - I thought it was my fault - and so I was unhappy. And I tried to 'fix' it by doing anything he wanted.

This continued up until about the past February when I finally realized that I needed to find myself. And even though I have been the WS, I still deserve respect and intimacy. I have screwed up in the M also by having my A - big time. And I will always take full responsibility for that. But I am changing, and I am taking steps to ensure that I don't make the same choice again. And even though I have been the WS, it doesn't mean I should stay in a horrible M either.

Anyhow, by taking more responsibility than was mine (thinking I could make H happy - thinking I had to, otherwise he would have another EA - which he did anyway), I didn't think I deserved any emotional intimacy or love. I couldn't make him happy, so if I wasn't doing my job, then why did I deserve to be loved?

I realize now the horrible flaws and inherent danger in this thinking. His not being happy was something he needed to cope with. It is still something he needs to address. But I can no longer take that on my shoulders. I can only control myself..... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />

Long answer, huh?

Hey, LIT, I started my college career at SMU... when they had a team! In fact, I was there for the fiasco when they violated probation.

Texas was just too far from my east coast home, so I transfered to a small all girls' college.

GG - <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> I actually grew up in that neighborhood where SMU is. Live about 15 miles north of there now. Dallas has really expanded! Speaking of expansion, they did recently build a new stadium for SMU....

My college is Texas A&M....good ole Aggies (Gig 'em). I was at A&M when we had a good team too! LOL Heard rumors we may be on the comeback this year (as I said....haven't had the heart or the strength to watch the games <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> ).

Where is your home on the east coast? H and I lived in Fairfax for about a year - next to DC. Too expensive, though, and had to move back....

Thanks for being there last night. It really means a lot.

Small world,LIT. I'm in Lancaster County PA. Amish country. Though I'm not Amish.

L.I.T.

Just wondering how you are doing today.

John,

Thank you for asking. I am holding. I feel like a plane that began falling into an uncontrolled descent last night. I have recovered control, but am in a holding pattern......just trying to maintain at this point.

I kind of felt like I lost my sanity at one point last night. Almost like everything was surreal, and it couldn't really be my life. Very similar to how I felt before my A. But today, I tried to keep my spirits up, and at least get out of the house (aside from getting paged to the hospital this morning).

Thanks for talking last night. I think it helped me to remember why H and I are where we are. And that helps me to remember that I don't want the old M - that I was very unhappy in that M.

Hope you and GG have a good night! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />