I am packing for my trip to Vt. Wife comes home and is fairly nice to me a few problems but not much. She then leaves in a hurry and calls back later and tells me that she cannot tell me what is going on. I understand why she can't say what it is ( she does not trust me). She told me later on that the people she had been staying with had told her to leave and she had nowhere to go. I told her that she could come back here tonight. Somewhere in the talk she told me that there is no more us just her and me seperate. How serious does this seem? I may not be able to respond for a long time but I will try to check in as soon as I can. thanks in advance,john

Take it with a grain of salt. These are confusing times - feelings come and go and are reflected in what we all say. At any point in time they may or may not mean anything. Be careful of analysis paralysis. Sometimes we will not get answers and sometimes we will - but if and when we get them is out of our control. Take care, and enjoy VT. I hope the trip is good for you.

Well I am in Vt. now and finally getting a little rest. The night that I wrote this post I was unable to reply but here is the rest of the story. I am more confused now than ever........
After the post was written and sent my wife shows up at the house in tears because of the trouble with the people she was staying with. She asks me if I would mind "company in bed tonight". I said not at all and told her that I would be delighted to have her company. I got done with all of the things that I had to do to get ready to go and went to bed. Shortly after she came to bed and laid down. At first she kept her distance but after a while she fell asleep and I had to move a little. I disturbed her just a little bit and she very quickly rolled over into my arms and went back to sleep as I finnished the movie I was watching. I went to sleep rather unwillingly only to wake up in the morning rested for the first time since she left. As I was getting ready to leave she told me that "last night hurt me alot" and that my trip was not going to change her mind at all about the divorce. I told her that I was expecting nothing from her because of the trip (I did not tell her that I really am hoping that she will come around after this!). I left that morning at 8:00am and wasted no time at all on the road. I was running away as fast as my car would take me (130+ mph!) and having a good time doing it. Not long before I got to my final destination my wife called to ask "how I was doing" I told her that I was fine but had to go because I was on roam. We said the goodbyes and I resumed the insanity of my drive. I finally got to where I was going and settled in and slept. Thes next day at around 3:00 she called me and left a message for me to call her. I called her and noticed that she really sounded pretty bad on the phone. She had worked a long double shift at her job and she was tired but she sounded more like she was crying. So far today I have not gotten any messages form her. Before I left we acually had a talk about how we were felling. For the first time I can remember we just talked openly about how we felt at that moment. I have no idea what is going on anymore and I am trying to keep my mind off of it for now. I really want this to work out just as much now as before I just hope she will come around. I have done so much for her through all of these years we have been together, all I ask now is for her to give me another chance to prove I can be better. I don't know why I love her the way I do I just know that the idea of losing her just tears me apart. I was too young to get married when I did she was too young as well. All we can do now is try to make the best of this situation. I don't know if she understands that she will not be able to pay for all of the things that she is used to having with me (bills,car payments, etc). I really hope she is thinking this all through because there is no way she is ever going to find a roommate that will allow her to move in all of her stuff. Our lives are built around the idea of "us" not her and me. I dont think she understands how hard it really will be to get all of this seperated out and dealt with. Finally last but not least the house- we have been there for less than 2 years I think she is forgetting a little thing called -capitol gains tax-.... I think she is also forgetting the penalties involved with the mortgage if you sell out before 4 years. Add all of this together and all of the profits form the house very quickle go away and leave us with very little to work with. Oh, I should mention SHE GETS A FREE LAWYER FOR ALL OF THIS!!!!! no wonder all of the people she works with are getting divorced! It is so easy for them to do it why not! I just dont know what to think anymore...... Again any help you might have would be great! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

My wife called me again today. I just can't understand how she can be so petty and unreasonable sometimes. I wish she could just stop attacking me for doing what I need to do to get myself set up and ready for anything that may come. She just wont stop getting angry at me for things that I have no control over. I really do not know where I am going to go but I just don't think I will ever go home again. I want to work all of this out but I do not think she is capable of doing anything but attacking me. All she had to do was pick up my paycheck from work. They would not give it to her like they did last time. She left and called me ands told me to get it fixed which I did. I then called her back and she just attacked me about me going out of town at a bad time. What right does she have to attack me for this!? she is the one who asked for the divorce!! Sorry guys, I just needed to vent some. Any advice will help me a great deal!

Questions for you:
1. Do you feel you have to take her calls while you are in VT? What if you didn't answer the phone?
2. Is her anger something new? Sometimes anger is a good thing because it gets people feeling / thinking and in touch with what's happening. There may still be caring left. I would worry more about a total lack of emotion than some anger.

Sounds like she needs someone to blame and is directing it your way. If she is the one who left you, why does it bother her that you left for VT? Maybe she sees that as a challenge. Maybe SHE wants to be the only one who can leave. OTOH, maybe she's just hurting and reaching out in her own way expecting you to fix her hurt. Who knows?

I really don't know what to say. You sound conflicted and I can relate as I was in that spot not long ago. I have since decided to move on now, and let go of whatever I was trying to hang onto - I know that any change in our status has to be initiated by him or it will NOT work. Therefore I have "given up" that approach and am giving him what he has asked for. What I did may not be the right thing for you, but I would suggest you ask yourself some tough questions to see where you really stand. And if you keep getting the same answers several days in a row, you might be starting to recognize your true feelings. You have to decide whether to hang on or move on, and I surely don't know which is best for you.

((((((hugs)))))))

I really don't have any advice, but I've read your posts and feel for you. My husband is the one leaving and every now and then he goes off on me. I don't know why. I just learned that I can't conrol him or change the situation -- so I've detached emotionally and just will not engage in any fights. His word, attacks, whatever just hang in the air, so even he can't ignore them.

I have been thinking about my true feelings and I have dicovered that I am truly still in love with my wife. Her anger this time from her end may seem to be juustified but from my end I had little control over what happened. My job paid me today and she had to pick up my check and deposit it into my account. The person in charge of the checks at my job would not give my check to her. Not long ago I was sick and the same person had no trouble giving the check to my wife then. Not long after that I am guessing that a policy changed somewhere and the person could no longer give the check to my wife without my permission. My wife thinks that I knew about this change but I really did not. I only decided to come up to Vt. about 12 hours before I left so I could not check and see what would be involved with her getting my check. I incorrectly assumed that she could pick it up as before without trouble. Istead she had a little trouble and instead of being understanding of our total situation she siply left this message on my voicemail "John, you irresponsible a**hole!!!". Now I can understand a little anger with the situation but I have NEVER left any messages like that for her and I do not think it is unreasonable to expect a little control over what she leaves for me on the voicemail. The absolute disrespect that she is showing really hurts me alot but she seems to not care at all. I really try to take her slings and arrows calmly but she is really pushing her luck now. Something seems to be so contrived abouthis whole thing that I just can't shake the feeling that somebody is pulling the strings from backstage (HER SISTER!). I feel so stupid for ever trusting in her sister for any of this. I have been friends with her sister fo a long time but I think this may be it for that. What is worse is that my wife said it was fine with her if I talked to her sister. I never would have done so much talking without her permission on it. For her sister to turn everything I said around though was unthinkable. She made it seem to my wife that I never said a goo thing to her but in reality I never spent too much time on the complaints I usually went straight to the what do I do now? part of the conversation. I know that I cannot talk to her sister again about anything like this. I am now talking to my own family so I know what I say is in confidence and will not be sent straight back to my wife. Even though I do not want to give up I am beginnig to think that maybe I really should consider it to save myself from her wrath. Hopefully I will not have to go that far to help my self because I really want to work through this. After the first message I would not expect another but she did leave another later. She was nice and friendly in this one not at all insulting. Maybe when I hung up on her while she was yelling at me she got the message! From now on she will have to leave a message and if I feel like it I will return the call. We both just need our space but she will not let herself have it. On a side not she has not really eaten in 2 weeks now. She can't say that this is not bothering her now can she? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

I can't belive it! I just read an article linked from another post and have realized that both my wife and I are "losers". Acording to the article just about everythig that she is doing now is intended to hurt me and hopefully get me to give in to her demands. I hate to tell her this but what are her real demands? Maybe they are not so unreasonable. Why won't she just tell me what is going on? In my life I have been though many very hard times but I have always come out fine. Is she expecting me to just give up? I don't know if she has noticed yet or not but I do not give up on anything. I may delay it or put it on hold but never give up. Sorry about the long posts but there is just so much to be said right now.

Sad John,

First I'd like to say I'm sorry that you need to be here and I'm also sorry that I don't know more about your story other than whats in this thread.

There are a few things about you that bring back some memories for me though.

First thing I want to understand is this. I believe your W left and also works. Why does she need to pick up your check? Did she need some of your money?(I made the mistake of keeping my direct deposit available to her, now I fight for money)

Second! If you both need your space but she will not take hers, then give her hers! Try not to just give in so much to everything she wants and needs. She needed someplace to go and you did a good thing for her. But you don't have to pay for it.

You had a trip planned and something came up for her! well you were decent enough to help her out but that does not have to change your plans.

Also you mentioned not being sure where you were going to go. Why don't you want to go home again? That is your home. Is she the one that wanted to leave and now she needs to come back, so you want to leave. GO HOME! if she wants out, she should leave. (By the way, my STBX wanted out but I left)

So you can see I am giving advice from my own wrong choices.

You want to prove to her that you can change then that is exactly what you need to do. Wether it helps your M or not, it is going to make you a better, stronger person.

You need to work on the best plan A ever imagined! No LB's at all. In fact, learn to steer clear of her LB's. Let them roll right off of you.

Learn and meet her most important EN's. If you're not sure what her most important ones are, then work on meeting ALL of them. But you have to mean it. It has to be real. She has to see it as the real you!

Have you read HNHN yet! if not, read it today, THE WHOLE THING! Trust me, you won't be able to put it down once you see the reality of it.

I wish you the best of luck
Be there for yourself as well as her

WIWH

I need to find out what her needs are and soon! I agree but she will not let me know what her needs are. All I can do for now is meet her obvious needs (roof,heat,water,food,etc). I just don't want to be accused of "using" her again. I am sure that she does not want to use me as well so I will have to be VERY careful with everything I do. I also need to stop making the same mistakes over and over again. What is HNHN? Where do I find HNHN?

Even with all of this I can't belive I still miss her so much I almost want to go back home early just to see her again. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> What is HNHN? Where do I find HNHN?</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">His Needs Her Needs

You can find it here!
His Needs, Her Needs:

Or at Barnes and Nobel.

Here is a good start for you!

The Most Important Emotional Needs

In fact! make sure you know all the basic concept!

Basic Concepts

The needs you are refering to kind of fall in between financial and domestic support. You need to look more toward Affection, conversation, etc...

Most importantly, avoid Love Busters

Love Busters

Another book you may want to look into is Divorce Busters. It has a lot of the same concepts and con be pretty motivational as well.

You need to be the best person that you can. You don't want to suck your wife back in, you want to be who and what she wants. You can only do that by being the person that she fell in love with to begin with.

What kind of things did you do when you met"
What attracted her to you?
What attracted you to her?

Do your best to be desireable to her!

WIWH

When were you supposed to be returning home, and how do you think she will react if you come home early?

My Opinion is that if you go home now, it will show her that she is in control.

From what I've read, this has been her choice and you do not want to be her door mat. If you do go home early, give it a little time. show her that, although you care for her, you need to be a person as well.

If I returned early it would most likely be seen as desperation on my part (and it would be). I am supposed to be home next sunday and I know that I am going to need all of this time to get myself fixed up. The reason she need to get my check is that there are bills that must be paid and she is the one that does all of that (I forget to many things for now to deal with that yet). If she does get the papers sent to me I will be taking her name off of my accounts and completely cutting her off form my help. For the last few weeks she has been going everywhere and doing everything she has always wanted (I doubt all of that but this is what she tells me). The problem is that the money has run out. I do not make enough money to support her travels and to get to and from work. She wasted all of her B-day and Cristmas money on gas and other stuff just so she would not have to come home.
One of the major problems is that she was 15 years old when she "fell in love" and her needs have naturally changed. At the time she liked that I was "hated" by her family. I in fact was never hated by her family despite me being 19 and her being 15/16. I guess I need to find out what her new needs are but she has never really shared them with me. I need to figure out what they are but I cannot ask her or anyone else that we know. She has completely seperated herself from me socially even our mutual friends are off limits just to talk to. She seems to be trying to find herself in all of her friends and that scares me. Her friends are addicts and dropouts (not all but alot of the ones I am aware of). She ahs told me that she does not want or need me to meet her needs she has found others to do that for her. She just seems to really be totaly against working on this and I just do not get how she would want to throw away the past seven years. I know we have had hard times but we have had many more good times. I think she is depressed about something deeper than all of this and because of that all she can see is the bad. I promised her that I would stick by her through all of the bad times but now she seems to be trying to make it worse and worse. I can't tell if she is trying to test my resolve or trying to get me to give up. I promised her that I would not give up no matter what and that promise I intend to keep.I( just hope when I get back she has put some thought into our relationship instead of just stewing hte whole time. She has diven almost all of my friends away and left me with almost nobody but her and now she wants to leave because I am to "clingy?". We worked together for years to make me into what I am and now she wants to leave? She has a right to be happy but this goes beyond rights. She just has no idea what she wants and as such nobody will be able to meet her needs for now. Sorry for the ranting but she has left me without any options.

Just another note: From the bay window in the house that I am staying I can see the Presidential mountain range very well. The view has to be one of the most incredible views you can have and be in the USA. At night I can see the lights on top of mount Washinton through my night vision scope. Oh, one more thing maybe she is tired of being on the D.O.D. watch list due to certain items which have come into my posession <img border="0" title="" alt="[Razz]" src="images/icons/tongue.gif" />

Got tired of "Sadjohn"! Not really descriptive of me anymore. Changed to"-ConfusedinWv-" Much better! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

It is hard to meet someones needs when you don't know what ones are the most important. However, that doesn't mean that you can't meet them. Work at being attentive to all of them.

Conversation, Admiration, affection..... These can all be met in little bits to help build up that love bank. As you meet her EN's you will be able to see what ones tend to affect her the most. You can then adjust your behavior to continue filling up that love bank until she can't stand to be away from you.

It takes time and effort but with time the effort comes natural.

Don't do anything that would seem desperate. That doesn't make you seem very desireable. Be confident, caring, understanding. Not desperate,lost, meaningless.

WIWH

WIWH