Hello MB'ers,
This is my first post on this board, so here goes. I found out about 3 mo. ago my W wants out. I believe the reasons are the EN were not met by me (I do take the blame for this). I had not recognized the EN's and things corroded away to the state they are in today. I also discovered there was an A, and a PA. I believe the A is over (called of by OM). WS told me she "needs some time alone" and wants to move out. Has a place rented already. Only wants to do a separation, nothing legal-like, just move away from each other. To me it is so scary to read others' stories about this and see the similarities in words used, excuses given and behavior patterns. This site is really an amazing resource and does give some hope in the matter. I have given myself a deadline as to some action. I am dying inside and don't want to continue living in limbo, perhaps waiting for the other shoe to drop. Here are some observations so far:
1. WS has told more of my family than hers? What is the mentality behind this?
2. WS has never mentioned reconcilliation, but more than one occassion mentioned "What if we get D?"
3. WS has mentioned only reason for seperation is that she promised some family members.
4. Refuses any type of MC. "Its too soon". Too soon for what?
5. Two children under age 7.
6. No admission of the A yet..

I am struggling between a Sep. and a D. For those of you haven gone through this, do you see a pattern here? Given it has only been three months is a D premature or am I just being a fool and not accepting the enevitable? Sorry about my poor grammar and spelling.

I share others' pain and continue to pray for all of us.

vaaka,
welcome to MB, and sorry you're here, in some ways that is.

I'm the furthest from any expert, all i can share is my thoughts or opinions.

i do knwo that some times a seperation is in order, and has a lot of potential.

as for your questions about what ws has said, i don't know her motive, nor do you,, it's possible maybe she don't.

This is about you though, what you do, can and will affect your chances.

It's ok to let her know you love her, would rather work things out, together, but this needs to be her decision, so in the meantime, give her her space.

don't talk about too much with her, it only pushes her further away, and quicker.

Apparently you have been doing your homwework here, but it never stops. You will need to continue learning/educating you.

always be sure to post here, and ask the questions you need.

I'm sure some of these MB'ers who have the more experience will be dropping in soon, they'll help you better than i probably could,,,

stever

<small>[ December 10, 2004, 05:37 PM: Message edited by: Stephan ]</small>

i wanted to add this, in response to your header,
'is the writing on the wall?"

It can be, "if" that's what you're looking for.


I'm wondering, are there any children?

I'm also wondering, do the two of you talk? If so, how does that go? Is she willing to talk with you, regards to your M?

You mentioned about a MC. In my opinion, if you want a Dv, then lean towards the MC. Your chances for Dv do increase. Most "do" contribute to Dv. Most use their own personal life experiences, values,,, into their therapy. Most are not trained proper for marital couples issues.
Mine was a divorced lady, and she was in my face saying,
"there is nothing wrong with Dv,,,,,!!!"

If she were to ask me, i would have said, "lady, it hurt like he!!- and it was to the most inner core." along with my children,,,

What about calling the Harley's? here at MB?

take care of yourself, first.
There are no guarantees, but what you do, can only increase your chances, of saving your marriage.

stephan

Stever,
Thanks for your reply. Yes, we have two children, 6 and 4. I really like this site and am encouraged about some of the stories I read here. I hear what you are saying about MC. You know, I could have gone along with this trial Sep. to "give some space", but until the facts about the A come out, I see no resolution. The truth must come out, by her own admission, and not by my suggestions. I am trying hard to keep a positive outlook on this experience, but when the lies keep coming, it gets harder and harder to keep an open mind. I try and reach out the olive branch, offering to talk, but the offer never gets taken. She shuts down and gets a funny look on her face when the subject comes up, so I don't push it. I'll check back in on Monday with an update.

Vaaka,
hoping to help your mind to be more at ease, from waht i'm about to share--

when my w became involved, the first thing i did, was made the announcement, even before i found MB, and before i even had all the facts.

the writing was on the wall, but i was being to blind to not only accept it, but refused to see it, in hopes maybe???

shortly after she left, she filed for, and served a bogus PPO on me. She abused the system, and filled the judge with lies.

her lies, as time would continue, included, following her, stalking her, attempting to popison her, and even raping her. according to her, i was even hiding behind bushes, and or buildings. In the meantime, while i was hiding behind these places, i had a 3 and 5 year old at home. I never could figure out how i was actually managing to do these .

her lies, a very deep part of me, a large part of me, was actually devasted, at times i even took them personal. i couldn't figure out, this lady that i placed all my wants. needs, fears, and trust into,was doing such a thing. a person who i thought was a friend, a mother to our children, and even a wife,,,

the world revolved around this lady, this was my world, the way i knew my world anyhow,, i so would have died for this lady, you know.

eventually, W ame back and had an ex-parte order, giving her custody of our children,, along with this, she also gave custody to 3 other people, on her list of people, to have such.

eventually, something was said, about me abusing our children, sexually,, this not only set in the devastation to mor e depths, depths that i thougth i was already at,, now, i was becoming very scared.

I began talking to a counselor,, his advice, based on his 38 years of experience, and mentioning he had seen this type of lady before, about 7 times prior in his profession/career,, to be prepared to do some jail time.

what really hurt me the most, was the lies. her affair(s) hurt, just not as much as the lies.



Her lies also consisted of me being very abusive, bith physical and verbal. How i also belittled her, and not sure anynore what that second one was on the dv papers was, but they usually go hand in hand, with the belittlement,,

these type of lies, i probably could have handled, at least better than i was, if not for the fact, of the other lies. the character attacks, the assisinations.


I've been pretty much accused of a lot of things, and i've been labeled,,, the majority, are only natural and normal,, its as they say around here at MB,, "it's in the script." it's the fog talk.


I tried to absorb as much possible from others here, and the reading i was doing then,, the thing was, i wasn't absorbing nuch. i wanted to keep my family, and such, in my own hands. You know, stay in the drivers seat,, i thougth that those here, their situation was different, and mine was unigue,, silly now, but the truth.

i was convinced, that all i needed to do, was convince her, that my love is, for real.That was the first wrong thing to do, it only pushed her further away, and quicker.

the second thing i did, was atempted to use a situation, regards to our children. Our daughter is was with a brain tumor, and i began mentioning how she, of all children, really needed/wanted her mom and dad, to fix us,,,she deserved this.

I was that staraight and narrow minded 'husband."

it's all the same, just different people,different circumstances, faces, names, different places, and the pain is the same. it hurts, and it hurts right to the most inner core,, i never could mask that pain.

To this day, when w excersises her visitation rights, it's still a reminder, of past days gone by. remembering i mentioned about the ex-parte, giving her custody, 3 months later, FOC gave me physical custody. i'm not bragging neither, i'm really not proud,

what works for one, doesn't always work for all, you can increase your chances, from what you do, for you, and it starts today.

try to ask for info, or answers here from some of the more experienced veterans, who will have better advice for you, before you attempt to do, or say much to your WW.

There still is hope, just no gaurantees..

hang in there,

stever

W finally did file to stop the Dv.

standing in the gap

Wow. Welcome and again, wish you were here under different circumstances.

It is good that you're here, learning and that you can recognize that you did not do so great in the en department...but you can change that.

You think her A is over. You may not know what is going on. I think firmly that one must know what is going on. Hire a PI for maybe 2 evenings at best. On the nights when she steps out or when she has time for the fling. I found out within four hours that my xh was cheating. But by that time it had been going on a while. I wish I was like you, at the beginning b/c now you have more time to work on things from your end. Her words and actions dont match. She claims she is done with A or that you are led to believe that. But her actions and classic ws behavior says otherwise. Remember...they lie when they're affair addicted. Stephan is right.

The last thing your ww wants to do is tell the truth to you because it is part of cake eaters period. Until the WS decides what they want to do, they will string the spouse and the OP along. That's why MB says to expose an affair. Bust up the little love triangle early I say. And yea, she will act like her brain has been scrambled by aliens. She will react wierd. She will do strange things. And sad part, my xh still does it. He never came back from the mothership. Once a loving dad to our son as a toddler, he is now him first, neglectful, and basically is on paper married to this ow, but is anything but a husband or a father in the traditional sense. Still goes out alot and never wears his wedding ring despite being remarried now 11 months. I say this 1)find out 2)once you get the goods, call and talk to Harleys 3)do divorcebusting 180 tips ...you can find them here and implement them immediately 4)learn from OUR lives and remember to line your legal ducks up if things seem to be going south and headed towards the divorce...even if you don't want to. You have 2 small kids who need a stable environment. And the end of the day, you are their dad and you want them safe and healthy despite the situation.
Stephan, you are a MB hero to me. Sometimes I can't even post to you because I get a huge lump in my throat. You fought the good fight for your kids and your M. YOu went thru hell and you achieved in getting your kids. I pray for you alot btw my brother. You are a champion among men!

Hi Stever and J.P,
Thanks for sharing your personal fights with me. I would never wish this situation upon anyone and I do hear your pain in your words but I do find strength in them as well. I would like to call the Harley's or even attend the seminar in florida together, but if my WS doesn't subscribe to it, does that really help? I think some of the lies continue. I keep hoping for the miracle of Christmas and the power of God to snap her out of this. Stephen, what is your status today, you posted that "W finally did file to stop the Dv"?
Thanks again to both of you for your words and advise. I will keep you both in my prayers.

Vaaka

Greetings,

my situation today, we're still seperated.

catch up with you at a later time,,

stever

Here is one more thing I am contemplating:

Obviously my WS has broken one of the convenants of marriage - Adultry. I was listening to another pro-marriage internet broadcast, whose theme is "God helps broken marriages".

I am really struggling wondering if I am letting God down by divorcing and not giving him (and her) time to work this out. I know for sure she has broken the vows with the A, but am I also breaking the "In good times and in bad...." vow by bowing out early?

Just some more of my sitch to contemplate and comment on.......

vaaka,

i must say, i sure can understand where your coming from.

One of my struggles involved my promise to God. Knowing what scripture does say about marriage and dv.

God does say He hates divorce. he also tells us that infidelity can be grounds for forgiveness, and that all marriages shall reconcile, that none shall parish. and on and on,,,

My point is, this is some of what God does tell us, and His word is good. Our worldly ways, have been that divorce is ok, and that all we have to do is ask for forgiveness, and we shall recieve.

Adultry can be grounds for Dv, as well as uneven yoke,,,

this is my struggle, what exactly is He telling me to do, "Stand in the gap, with arms stretched upward" so that my marriage can reconcile???

I know often i'll hear the statement that God has somebody else in mind and better for him/her,, whichever may apply.

i can't agree with this thought, just mepersonally maybe???

My values,, are all about saving marriages, i too hate divorce. My children hate divorce.

Divorce is the work of satan, he wants the pain, not our loving God.

Some of my prayers consisted and demanded that God cast out divorce from my home, and to place that caot of armor around my W,, then i began praying for her demise if you will, for her to fail at her new job,, funny thing was,, she did end up costing the company several thousands diollars.

I can't and don't have all the answers, and i never will,,,

maybe someone more knowledgeable will drop in,,
and offer better advice, or more stronger advice, where the faith steps in,,,

God is a loving God, and He does help marriages,, everything you need, is in the bible, this is the POWER. the MC,s they only have the experience and wisdom, of life's ways of the flesh,,,

you can't change your w, or anything about her,, it's wrong to try to change her mind, this will only create resentment,, ok-more resentment, in my case it did. I tryed to even encourage her,, wrong. You can't try to educate her,, nothing.

what your W isd doing, is wrong, you and I know this,, maybe one day she will realizer, maybe not.

there never is any excuse for infidelity-none.

I'm wondering, what role do you play, in helping to lead to where your current situation is?

what responsibility do you feel you have with all of this? I'm not blaming you, nor am i saying this is your fault, she made the decision,, but why? What was she missing? anything?

Right now, your w is getting ehr fix, the chemicals are being released, and thats all she's caring, and liking,, it feels good.

you can't get a drinker to stop, you can't get an individual involved in drugs to stop, only they can, and as long as they're getting their fix, they can not, and will not, see their errors.

They are justifying theirself.

sory for the book,, obviously i'm a wordy person, with a lot to say,

just trying/hoping to help,,
i'm no expert. i only share,,

stever

educate you, and think about you! pray that one day your W will come along,,,
if this is what "you"want

Hey Stever,
As always, thanks for your insight and sharing your experience. To answer your questions from earlier, I believe that I did a poor job in meeting her E.N. Like some young couples, we had a lot of aspirations. New house, kids, careers, etc. What I failed to recognize was the crying out for help and attention my wife wanted. Frankly, I think i bit off more than I could chew (work, grad. school, being a husband and dad, remodeling.) It's quite easy to look back and see where I could have improved. Marriage is extremely hard work and for those who have loving marriages, I applaude you. So yes, I take some responsibility in ending up where we are today.
What baffles me is that she believes we are at the point of no return and that "you can't fall back in love". This seems to be contrary to the MB concepts. I am also saddended that she doesn't seem to have too much concern about our kids in this matter either? I do want to preserve this family but it seems like I am dealing with multiple personalities right now and I do have to be careful with things.

Talk again,
Vaaka