My ex called me Thursday night as I was walking in the door from work. Just wanted to ask me why DD now has my cell phone (he'd tried to get me on that initially, but ended up talking to his daughter instead). And wanted to tell me all about his trip to Paris with OW.

Okay, I admit I was strangely curious what Paris is like. But we talked probably 20 minutes and I finally had to cut him off because I had a Bunco date with my neighborhood ladies.

While I think he had an informative and much-too-expensive vacation that he probably enjoyed, the more interesting part is this...

He called me from the phone at the shop where he works because he says it's the only way he can get a chance to talk to me. And during our conversation, a car drove up and he thought it was OW and he uttered an expletive and briefly left the phone, then came back and said, "Whew! Never mind, it was just a customer."

So....he's sneaking around behind OW's back to call the ex-wife???

I asked him if he proposed to her in Paris. His answer. "F.. no!!"

I'm not getting all happy and thinking "Yay, maybe I'll get him back!" because I don't want him back in his current state. I know he still drinks. He was telling me how expensive the drinks were in Paris. And he is by no means repentent for what he is doing.

I just find it funny that OW tries SO hard to keep ex and me from seeing or talking to each other, tries to make all communication run through herself, and leads the world to believe all is sunny and rosy in affairworld.

LL

<small>[ December 13, 2004, 01:13 PM: Message edited by: lordslady ]</small>

Hi lordslady!

This doesn't surprise me. So often, what begins in deception ends in deception. So, the question then arises. If he came back, do you want him? You've said no. At some point, you may need to make that plain to him.

I expect the same outcome (deception to deception) with my STBXH and the OW. I expect he'll be back at my doorstep when it does. Like you, I'm dealing with a probable alcoholic. In my case, his bi-polar syndrome is worsening....so I'm also dealing with compulsive spending and compulsive internet trolling. Like you, I know I CANNOT take him back the way he is now.

It's so sad when the people we love disappear into either substance abuse or mental illness and we remember and love the person they once were.

Hi lordslady!

This doesn't surprise me. So often, what begins in deception ends in deception. So, the question then arises. If he came back, do you want him? You've said no. At some point, you may need to make that plain to him.

I expect the same outcome (deception to deception) with my STBXH and the OW. I expect he'll be back at my doorstep when it does. Like you, I'm dealing with a probable alcoholic. In my case, his bi-polar syndrome is worsening....so I'm also dealing with compulsive spending and compulsive internet trolling. Like you, I know I CANNOT take him back the way he is now.

It's so sad when the people we love disappear into either substance abuse or mental illness and we remember and love the person they once were.

My ex also wants to keep in contact with me, though she apparently is still madly in love with the OM. I expect they will be married next year.

Why, she thinks we can be friends and talk and chat like nothing ever happened is beyond me. She has never faced up to the fact that her behavior was cruel, deceitful and in defiance of her religious beliefs. Maybe, if we are friends, she will feel better about her behavior. But, I don't want to be friends with her. It hurts to much to see her and to talk to her since she still posses the body of the wonderful woman I married over 20 years ago.

The less I see of her and talk to her the better. It's a shame it has to be that way, but the reality is, that was her choice. I was forced to go along for the ride.

My stx never calls just to chat. We do have contact because of our kids and we get together on occassion because my S and DIL live with stbx. My stbx seems uncomfortable with me when we are all together. I even questioned him about it but like everything else, he denies it. We only talk surface stuff and have not had any emotional talks for about a year.

I would not put myself in the place of letting stbx chit chat about his OW and he knows it. I do need to know about some areas of his life like worker comp case and not going back to work things cause he pays me maintenance that I sorely need. If I could find a way to break that bond, I would cause I no longer want to rely on him for anything. He, too, is alcoholic and makes awful decisions. He confuses me greatly and he seems so normal from a distance.

so we have no deep emotional ties anymore.

TW

NOPE. She knows she can't get anything ELSE from me, coz I've given her all I am able to. She's BLEEDING someone else (her new hubby) dry financially now... And our kids are grown up and moved out of the house.. no more Child Support checks for her..
SDLOTR

Too soon to tell (I don't move out until the end of this week) but my H wants to maintain contact with me. He has asked if he will ever get to see my new house, and if it is alright if he calls me. I don't ever know how to respond - I just say, "this is a bad time to be asking me that when I'm feeling so conflicted and really need some recovery time to get my feelings sorted out."

I don't want to close the doors... but to be honest, as time passes I am feeling less and less like holding that door open. Maybe I won't lock it, but I'm gonna quit standing there holding it open.

Some of my female friends have opened up to tell me more about their choices of singleness, and I'm beginning to believe it will be a better life for me. I've always heard that married men are the happiest, followed by single women, followed by single men, followed by married women (last on the list.) There may be something to that. One of my friends confided in me that she wishes she could just walk away from her life and start over like I'm doing. Of course, I didn't choose this - it's not like I just decided to run away from home.

Anyway, this is relevant for me because whether I want or am willing to have contact with my H will have a lot to do with whether I've emotionally moved on or not. If I'm still hoping for a reconciliation, I don't think it will work for me, but if I no longer want a relationship with him, I may enjoy his company from time to time, who knows?

I doubt if I will ever be friends with my ex wife because of her betrayal of her marriage vows. If it had simply been a case of us not getting along, or being bored with each other, I think I could eventually warm up to her. But, the betrayal is another thing.

I know people who are decent towards their ex, some who actually are friendly with their ex, and a few who still have SF with their ex (both parties still unmarried). As one lady said "What other man can I sleep with, wake up in the morning with, and not have to worry about what the kids will think?" <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I know people who are decent towards their ex, some who actually are friendly with their ex, and a few who still have SF with their ex </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">#1 - okay, I am decent to mine (when I don't end up crying on the phone).

#2 - friendly, yes, even that on occasion (though not sure why)

#3 - SF? The thought just about makes me wretch! (Though I did have a coworker who right after her DV was final, did that with her ex a few times).

If my mind ever wanders enough that I think of my ex in that way, the vivid mental picture he described once of OW screaming and crawling across the floor (which in itself just sounds screwed up to me!)is enough to shock me right back to my senses!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" />

I doubt ex calls again for a while. I spoke with him tonight about issues related to the kids and ended up making quite the donkey out of myself crying on the phone.

I am realizing tonight that there is a LOT of anger and a LOT of hurt and a LOT of resentment stuffed away in me just dying to come out--mainly toward the ex and the OW, but somewhat toward my daughter (and yes, I know that sounds cold) and somewhat toward myself.

Thoughts for a different post though...

LL

deja vu said it about not holding the door open any more. Is there some way I can just leave it open without having to stand there and hold it and invite him in?
I'm moving out next week as well-- or two weeks from now, we'll see, but sometime before the new year.
He set aside a day to help me move, and for some reason, I don't want his help.
But I AM going to need help, and it's appropriate that my H help me move, but I don't want him to. It's like I don't want him to come over just yet, or know where I live?
Silly, huh? I don't have a reason to hide from him. I don't understand my feelings, but I guess it's just something I have to do on my own.
I think for Christmas I'll buy him a nice pen and I'll give him a card with my new address on it and a note that says "Write me!"
I don't wan tto email with him, and I would like some time of no phone calls for a while. Just to get my groove on in my new surroundings.
Also, I don't think I'll wear my rings when I'm there, but we'll see. Maybe the absense will make me want the wife identity.
I don't know. I don't know if we're going to be married people seperated because of logistics (I"m moving anyway for a certain academic program anyway), or if we're going to be "Seperated", or predivorce, or WHAT?!
The grey areas are a little nauseating at times.
We decided not to divorce, at least not right away. He said he doesn't want to rush into any major decisions.
I said "Well, I don't want a divorce anyway, so I'm Ok wit that."
But now the freedom I was looking forward to about the new town and my own place is gone, and in it's place is the thought that I'm going to be a wife without a husband, missing him, wishing I was home, etc.
Funny how the emotional component changes with the role I have. I wish my feelings were stronger than that and not based on a role, but based on what I feel at my core.
At my core, I am no longer worried about us. I have the feeling, for once, that whatever is supposed to come of us, will and I'm at peace with that.
And I trust that. I have no agenda for us, no plan, no wish... I'd love it if we some how worked out-- that would be a ballsy story to tell later and it would validate a lot for me if we did somehow make it work.
But at this point, we are seperating for the second time in a year, and have only been married for 2 years. What kind of marriage starts out like that and lives to laugh about it?

Anyway, if we do end up divorcing.... I'm with you on that one too Deja-- if I dont care about him then it might be OK to hang out with him. But if I still love him, being around him is not going to be something I CAN do, especially with him being a "good friend" like I already know he will be-- the kind of friend who happens to call when something big happens in my life, or the kind of friend who gets me great gifts, or cares about my emotional state. I can't stand the thought that I might one day be talking to my H about the new man in my life and hearing him talk about the new woman in his. that's just so backwards and disfunctional in my mind. Especailly since we don't have kids and would have no reason to talk if we got a divorce. We'd only be doing it as some sort of weird mooching of gleaning as much learning as we can from each other, and parasiting some sort of praise from each other for little ego boosts here and there-- in short, it feels phony and like some sort of contrived "feel good" vibe scene for me to even take seriously.
I am trying to be clear in what I do-- when i'm married, I will be married and act that way until I'm no longer married. If I'm not, I will disolve the emotions and keep a safe distance away so we can move on with our lives. I don't want to talk to him about his new life and be chums or friends. I can't be part of his support network and be there to help him through hard times. that is not what I want. I want to be his BEST friend, his lover, his main support person, his favorite playmate, and his legal and spiritual partner and I want all of that to be understood by anyone and everyone who can see the rings on our fingers and see our names in the phone book together.
But then again, I hear myself say I can't be his friend and I think "then how can I think I can be his wife?"
Dumb.
LC

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lucycakes:
<strong>I'm moving out next week as well-- or two weeks from now, we'll see, but sometime before the new year.

He set aside a day to help me move, and for some reason, I don't want his help.

But I AM going to need help, and it's appropriate that my H help me move, but I don't want him to. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Boy, could I have written this! My H went to Texas last weekend, and I rounded up a few friends to help me. I rented a truck and they helped me with the things I could do alone. I had told H I wanted him OUT OF THE HOUSE when I did this, and Texas was many states away!

I've also been moving for over a month - I found a place that had rental storage units and the initial month was $1 for any size. I only need a month! There is no lease beyond the first month, so I got two lockers and they are now full. I drop stuff off on my way to work each day.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
It's like I don't want him to come over just yet, or know where I live?

Silly, huh? I don't have a reason to hide from him. I don't understand my feelings, but I guess it's just something I have to do on my own.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Ditto for me. I feel exactly the same way. My H keeps asking why the secrecy - I don't really know, but I think it has more to do with learning to do things without him, to have a life I don't share with him because that's where we are headed. This new place is MY house. I am not interested in his opinion of it, and feel like I want some privacy from him until my feelings heal and I can rest from all this emotional stress. I don't know if this is an answer that works for you - but I think it explains my feelings on the issue.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
I think for Christmas I'll buy him a nice pen and I'll give him a card with my new address on it and a note that says "Write me!"</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I got a PO Box and think I'll give him THAT address. Also caller ID so I can see who is calling before I answer the phone.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We decided not to divorce, at least not right away. He said he doesn't want to rush into any major decisions.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">This is good advice - until one or both of you knows for sure what you want. (In my case, H wants the D - I am now coming around to feel that way too, oddly enough.)

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">But now the freedom I was looking forward to about the new town and my own place is gone, and in it's place is the thought that I'm going to be a wife without a husband, missing him, wishing I was home, etc.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have gone through that too - and expect I still will from time to time. It comes and goes like waves washing over me, sending me into the pits for days. Then I climb back out, and feel OK again.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Funny how the emotional component changes with the role I have. I wish my feelings were stronger than that and not based on a role, but based on what I feel at my core.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So, if you know you have to adjust to being alone, visualize yourself in the new role, find all the GOOD things about that new role and move on. There are many situations we can experience in life - and some are mutually exclusive so they have to be done sequentially. Your new role is one you can't play while you live with your H. So, whether you get back together or not, this is a role you have to play alone and you will get something wonderful out of it.

<strong> </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Anyway, if we do end up divorcing.... I'm with you on that one too Deja-- if I dont care about him then it might be OK to hang out with him....

I can't stand the thought that I might one day be talking to my H about the new man in my life and hearing him talk about the new woman in his...

We'd only be doing it as some sort of weird mooching of gleaning as much learning as we can from each other, and parasiting some sort of praise from each other for little ego boosts here and there-- in short, it feels phony and like some sort of contrived "feel good" vibe scene for me to even take seriously...

I don't want to talk to him about his new life and be chums or friends. I can't be part of his support network and be there to help him through hard times. that is not what I want. I want to be his BEST friend, his lover, his main support person, his favorite playmate, and his legal and spiritual partner ...
</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Wow, can I relate to all of this. I could have written this post. I really believe our emotions will remain on a roller coaster until we can get physically out of our "togetherness" lives and sort things out. For me that happens this week - officially when I leave Friday AM I will not be going back. Now that I'm starting to detach from him more, I'm thinking I might be able to see him as a friend. However, some of my requirements for "friends" include reliability and honesty - and those have not been present in my relationship with him ever - and especially not in recent months. So, I have to ask - is this someone I would choose as a friend? Maybe a more casual friend, but probably not a very close intimate friend. Hmmmm - interesting thoughts that will probably make more sense in the coming months than they do now.

Good luck to you with your move. Please stay in touch!

I read an interesting thought last night from the latest wonderfully funny Sweet Potato Queens book (now, those of you who are not from the American South may not know the Sweet Potato Queens....but, suffice it to say, they are every slightly wild, more than slightly crazy girlfriend that every woman has ever been lucky enough to have. The kind who buy you wax lips for fun, wear tiaras for the hell of it, and make you laugh so hard you blow milk through your nose.) Anyway, Jill Conner Browne, THE Sweet Potato Queen had this to say about relationships (gentlemen, just change the gender....the truth is the same for all of us):

"If you're currently in an unhappy, destructive relationship with a man, try this little exercise: Whatever bad behavior the guy is manifesting - anything from drinking, lying, cheating, stealing, or using you for a punching bag to merely taking you for granted and being constantly critical or inattentive - write it all down, all the infractions, big and small. Then ask yourself, 'Would I accept this kind of treatment from a female friend?'"

She goes on to add:

"The real truth is you are enough - just the way you are, just who you are. You are a complete entity, a whole person, right there in the skin you're in.....Admit it: you have more fun with a gang of girlfriends than you've had on the absolute best date of your life. If somebody comes along who treats you right and makes you happy and you can do the same for him, well, that's just dandy. But I'm telling you, the only way that I know to get and keep a happy, healthy relationship is to create a happy and healthy life for yourself without one. This is your life to live."

Thanks Jill. I needed that.

Lords lady-
My son's dad lft me for another woman many years ago, and it was always weird. He moved out of state, and I had an 800 number at my job. He didn't have a phone at home, so he'd call from his desk job to my 800 number, and we'd talk-- at least for 2 hours a week. SOmetimes less, sometimes more. We talked about our son, his parents, friends, etc. I'd ask him how life with OW was, and he was vauge in his responses, and I was OK with that-- didn't really want to know anyway.
Sometimes tho, we'd talk on a bad day and I'd just vent about how screwed up I still felt about everything. He handled me well, at least on the outside.
Sometimes it was like it was all still so fresh, and other times, we were more like brother and sister-- two poeple with a strong bond whomaybe didn't get along well, but appreciated each other all the same.
When he died, I found out He DID have a phone at home, but didn't want me to know because OW would have had a fit if I called him there! I was really saddened by this because our son never got to talk to him as a result of only talking during work.
(He did call sometimes in the PM, claiming to be at a pay phone).
She denies that she would have freaked out if I called, or she knew we were talking, but I can see his point. She had started sending me the child support payments-- they were LESS than what he and I agreed on (WTF?) and she'd write little notes like "Sorry, thisis all we can afford this month" with a happy face or some such crud on it. I was like "You filthy homewrecker!" I had no compassion for her-- still don't.
I CAN'T. It's awful, I know, she's his widow, bt all I can think is "that's what you get" and feel worse for my son and myself than for her.
It's maybe partially because of how he and I were after our split that I don't want any contact with my H if we D now. I just know how it goes talking to the X.... can be nice, but not necessary, and when it comes right down to it, it didn't help me move on. I didn't find my H for 4 years after I split up with my son's dad, and even then, I felt he had sent my H to me...
NOw I wonder if he knew it would turn out this way!
LOL
LC