I investigated this message board long ago, so apparently I still have an ID here. But essentially I'm a brand new member.

People, I covet your prayers, as today I was told by my husband that he filed for divorce on December 15. Why he waited to tell me until today, I don't know. It has been a 20-year marriage, never great, but not terrible until about five years ago. We have a 12 year old. We have been physically separated since August 2003, but just started counseling (which was helping a lot with communication) this past November. Then this.

Of course, there's a whole lot that goes in between, which I will not go into now. Suffice it to say, my husband never showed any effort to work at our marriage and has been the most passive person I've ever known until he hit a midlife crisis, and now he acts, sure enough, but in destructive ways.

I have been unemployed for two years (worked part-time for 12 years, full-time before that), and we homeschool. I have no family of origin and dread losing my in-laws, whom I love but they live at a fair distance.

Like just about everyone else, probably, I never thought I'd face divorce. I need support and advice (something besides "ah, forget the jerk, dust yourself off, and don't look back"). I'm concerned about my soon-to-be ex's ultimate future because he's on a bad track (hangs out with low lifes now and is totally self-absorbed), and I don't know how my kid and I will maintain financial stability since I haven't been able to find work, and now we want to continue homeschooling, as it has been wonderfully successful.

Once again, I covet your prayers.

~MDOA

Are you and cascadeofwater one and the same?


quote:
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Originally posted by cascadeofwater:
Help, folks.

I don't have time to list details, but need to say in brief that the love I have found with the OM in my life is truly remarkable. It meets every one of my top 5 emotional needs and is unconditional (despite many circumstances that have revealed our weaknesses to each other). We are so much alike and so mutually crazy about each other we feel like "clones." However, obviously I'm already married (the marriage has two MAJOR flaws, one of which there truly doesn't appear to be any hope for, though I should add there are great pluses on my H's side...he's a very good/reliable man and a wonderful father). I'd like us to be in Plan A, but my husband isn't up to speed on this yet, though I've been encouraging him to read the book.

Is this love I've found the ultimate deception? (It's been six months now, and I truly can't see any way in which it isn't the real thing--the OM is SO open, authentic, expressive, sincere and proves his loyalty to me over and over daily). I feel like I'm holding the winning lottery ticket, only I'm reluctant/guilty about cashing it in because it's stolen. I need to either make a resolution to give up the only person who has ever really understood, respected and cherished me (OM), or try to make something work (with H) that never really did very well.

I am 100% honest and sincere (and have been toward my H about this since it first started, unlike most WS's), so please...no snap judgments or sassy language...I'm looking for real, careful insight and wisdom. BTW, my H is having a hard time deciding whether to work on our marriage, which makes it doubly hard for me to resolve to do the "right" thing, against the powerful force of the other love I've come to know (i.e., I'm not able to picture right now what we might have to look forward to even if we worked hard on the marriage).

To those with helpful, loving responses (especially other WS's who might understand my situation), I thank you in advance for your posts....

~PB
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Then:


quote:
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Originally posted by cascadeofwater:
Hello, everyone....

I'm new to this discussion site. I've been married 17 years and have an eight-year-old daughter. My husband and I had, I believe, mostly garden-variety marital problems that increased over time. But, having recently taken the "Needs" test, he apparently wasn't meeting any of my top five needs, and I was only meeting one of his. My parents and only sibling cut me off (long story) three years ago, so suffice it to say I had been emotionally needy for quite a while, though I know I didn't realize how vulnerable I was until....

Last December I fell head-over-heels in love with someone I had started innocently associating with in an educational setting a few months earlier. It was exactly like the whole Cupid thing...shot through the heart, walking on air, couldn't eat (I lost 15 lb. in the first few weeks) or sleep, couldn't think about anything else but him, etc. It was involuntary--I did not seek someone out, and the feelings were completey overpowering. What attracted me was his intellect, his openness and expressiveness, his kindness, his love for the kids he worked with, and many other things. Objectively speaking, he isn't particularly attractive, but he was to me (very tall, expressive eyes, deep/rich voice and extraordinarily beautiful hands). I knew I was in trouble, and at the next opportunity (in January, after Christmas vacation) I moved to remove myself from associating with him. In the process, not wanting him to misunderstand my reasons, I mentioned in the e-mail that I had started caring for him more than I should. Not a smart thing to do, if I had thought things through, but it didn't occur to me, with my very low self-esteem, that he could possibly reciprocate. Well, he was very gentlemanly and kind and offered me his friendship. I couldn't refuse (I had never met anyone like him and he was exactly the kind of person I had always wanted to meet). Well, things progressed quickly over the next few weeks...soon he was telling me HE was in love with ME!

I told my husband immediately. He was terribly hurt. We made some attempts at counseling and spoke with a church elder (a total disaster), but neither of us were in a position to want to work on the marriage (I was way far out on cloud 9, and my husband was so hurt).

In answer to prayer, I found this web site a few weeks ago. I was beginning to think no one cared about marriages being saved anymore (especially when a third party exists). Part of me always sensed my head would have to eventually clear, and I do see things much better now (that I want to work on my marriage), but the OM is wonderful...he meets my top five needs easily and has taught me more about unconditional love (as a verb) than any other human being. However, there are concerns with him (he has ADHD that manifests itself as irregular sleep cycles, chronic tardiness and a lot of trouble managing money). He thinks God brought us together, but I say "God doesn't break His own rules." Things are very tough regarding my marriage, but I feel it would be wrong to divorce without working on it, and I finally am ready to really work on it (though, in cutting off from the OM, I know I will go through MAJOR withdrawals and will need support). My husband, however, has hardened. He wants to sell the house, separate and divorce, though he hasn't filed yet, and there does seem to be some very NARROW wiggle room in his thinking. The core issue is that when we started really talking about our problems, it finally came out that I've never been at all attracted to my husband (I don't want to overemphasize this, but this is a critical issue--I had always known this would badly hurt him, so I had never specifically pointed it out before, though I did not deceive him either)--I have a background of some sexual abuse and so I married my best friend, perhaps subconsciously so that I'd have a husband who didn't have too much power over me that way, or something. I also had bought the conventional wisdom that I would "grow/learn to love him" (didn't happen for me).

Anyway, so that was a definite direct hit for my husband, as I knew it would be--I never wanted to hurt him that way, which is why I hadn't said this directly before, though I had tried at many times in many ways over the years to work on our marriage, such as giving him major hints about how we could improve things, etc., but he poo-pooed the notion of any kind of marriage enrichment work. Now he says he wants a chance to find someone who will love him the way he wants to be loved. I guess it's a normal human response.

The other two major problems we have are differing intellectual levels (and interests), and more importantly total lack of leadership on his part (i.e., nothing gets done with us unless I plan, initiate and drag us through the process, etc.--he is very passive, and it's extremely hard work for me). These things are a lot to overcome, I know, but I still want to work on it because I believe it's the right thing to do, and most importantly (to me) for my daughter's sake (having the best possible environment for her, as well as the most options for her future are more important to me than any of my own needs). One time a few years ago when my husband and I had had a loud disagreement in front of our daughter (didn't happen very often), she expressed concern that we would divorce. I PROMISED her we never would (didn't think so at the time!). Well, that kid never forgets, and she knows about the problems lately, and has said "...but you promised...!" Indeed--ouch!!

In sum, neither my husband nor I know if we have enough to build on. The two critical problems are my lack of attraction to him, and the OM. There's a lot of other work that would have to be done too, and it would be an uphill battle.

So, anyway, this is pretty much my story. I've been hanging on to Marriage Builders like a lifeline these days, but haven't had a chance to post until now. If anyone has any encouragement, I'd be most grateful. To me, this is one of the best possible uses of the Internet. God bless the Harleys, and all of you as well!

Peace to all,

~PB
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And you only want ENCOURAGING replies? So, what are we to encourage?

<small>[ January 01, 2005, 11:54 PM: Message edited by: cinderella ]</small>

Something similar happened to me - my husband filed papers in November, but couldn't bring himself to tell me about it right away. He was afraid I'd try to talk him out of it.

Sometimes people just do seem to want to go on, and it doesn't matter what we want them to do. One thing I can tell you is that there is no need to lose contact with your in-laws. You're divorcing from your husband, not from him. I spoke to my in-laws about this, and said that I wanted to stay in touch and stay part of their lives. They've been very supportive. I don't complain about my STBXH to them - they don't need to be dragged into our problems, and no one should have to take sides against a family member. It's between you and them, and if there is genuine warmth, you can keep them as friends and family.

Life is big, and we all need all the connections to love we can find. Good luck to you.

IF you are the same person as cascadeofwater AND haven't ended your relationship with OM, that is the first step. As a fws, I can say from experience that no one thinks right/well about their marriage when in the throes of a powerful emotional/physical involvement with someone outside their marriage. If you already have ended that involvement, then the most important thing for you to do (for yourself, regardless of what happens to your marriage) is to find out what IN YOU (not in your marriage) moved you into that marriage and integrity destroying involvement. NOT what in your husband or your marriage but what IN YOU. Dealing with that, both the wounds you brought into your marriage and your character defects are the most important thing you have to offer yourself, your husband, and your daughter. May God give much grace to you and your husband during this very difficult time.

Dear Cascade,
My first and most important question is: is OM still in the picture? If he is, and you don't want to go to NC, I have little hope for your M.
If he isn't and you are sincere about wanting to rebuild your M, I would suggest plan A. And that also means meeting your H's EN's.

<small>[ January 02, 2005, 07:14 AM: Message edited by: brownhair ]</small>

Yes I am curious too.After reading all your previous posts marriagedoa,are you still involved with the married OM you talked so emphatically about in 2001?

You never thought you'd face divorce??? Do you really believe that statement after all that has transpired?

Sounds like your life,and that of your H,is one big mess and no one has done anything positive to change that all these years.

O

Lots of good points to Cascade. To that I might add that it is easy to believe the OM is the answer because you are soo unhappy in your marriage but it seems to me you are about to make the same mistakes. You already pointed out that the OM has ADHD and problems managing money. Are you serious? THIS IS MAJOR STUFF, don't just gloss over it because you want a way out.

Any idea of what hell it will be to live with and try to build a life with a person like that on a day to day basis. You need to get out of fantasy land and realize you are just trading one bad relationship for another. If you cannot work on what you have do not think that the grass is greener, your decision-making is obviously impaired at this point and there are big red flags waving in your facing concerning the OM.

I suggest you seek therapy and try to work on your past issues and make yourself whole. You stated you chose your H and was not attracted to him, you also state that the OM is not that attractive but has great eyes, voice and hands. Helloooo!!! Can you not see you are doing the same thing. When it is just you and the OM and reality hits you will probably be worse off.

You need some alone time and therapy to heal before jumping into another relationship. You are carrying around a lot of emotional baggage and until you heal yourself you are doomed to continue making the same mistakes. There is a reason we are attracted to the same type of people and until YOU change yourself you will continue to bring the same type of men into your life. Your child deserves better and so do you. God bless and good luck.

[Stupidity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting differnet results]

Yep...the affair is in full swing...read the thread on GQII..

He writes a lovely foggy letter.

Now CoW:

I wrote back to you over on GQII.

What are you going to do?

You can either choose to do nothing or do something...What you're doing now is THE REASON WHY YOUR H HAS FILED.

I love the sig line that lady lawyer has...it's taken from a quote by Einstein...my favorite thinker btw...the real quote is "the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting the results to be different." You are now shocked and awed that your BS would dare file for divorce. He has no longer decided he wants more of the same ok? Now, do you want to keep doing the same thing(having the torrid affair) and do you want the same outcome (divorce) or do you want one chance to turn the tides?

It will take alot of gut to do it. You'll have to fire OM, go cold turkey and into withdrawal, and at same time Plan A your H and get some serious coaching and marriage counseling...and yea, follow MB principles to a T.

You have a choice.

I know what it's like to not get written back to you what you want to hear. But this is just plain wrong ok? Your child will be hurt. Your H is hurting. You are hurting. Only guy feeling good here is the foggy OM...and you...yes, you. The A is "paying you off" somehow.

Please let us know what you are going to do. No more long sweet agonizing letters showing how "wonderful OM is" and how he "meets all five of your EN's." How charming. Ya know...I would bet if I went out to a bar in midtown tonight and sat down by some lonely married guy, that he'd have to certainly do some sweet talking to get me to see him...It's not hard to meet EN's when you're handing out FALSE realities along with them.

Ex: You and I will be so happy together. We will move away and you can start working on that advanced degree you say you'd like to pursue. I love you and want to see you grow...I am the one who wants you to truly be happy.

Now the above is fog talk. It is made up and could be from any OM to an OW...or vice versa. It's pure fantasy. And you can buy into that. It's more fun to hear of what "could happen" than to see the same guy day after day who goes to work, comes home, reads the paper, washes the dishes, and goes to sleep.

If you're ready to go to MB work, roll up your sleeves and get down to business. We will help, but only if you are 100 percent willing to help and end your affair now.

Love is tough. Ripping apart a family is toughest..Choose love. Real love and not lies.

Mdoa,

So how can we help you? It is very hard to know without more details. Here is what I think I know of your situation, please correct my errors.

1. You have NOT lived with your H since August 2003.

2. You told him that you did not love him and that you just married him for comfort.

3. You think you being proactive in things is better than his way of looking at life, yet you live off of his income, his efforts, his WORK.

4. OM was/is? the best man you have ever met and you have told your H these things as well.

5. You think because your H has given up on the marriage and decided to make a life of his own that he is in midlife crisis.

6. You don't approve of his choices, but your choices to both betray him, and hurt him should be over looked by him, although you have not seen fit to live with him for 1.5 years.

So do I have this about right? Let me ask you something has it ever occured to you that his inaction was a way of dealing and responding to you so that you two did not fight. If you are so "proactive" in things, it is not surprising that he backed off. Further, his new level of activity suggests that he has indeed given up on you and decided to make a life for himself.

If I were to pray for you, what exactly is it you want me to pray?? You never say. You don't see the obvious that he very likely waited until New Year to tell you because he did not want to ruin Christmas, assuming that you two in fact had Christmas together.

Your situation is not hopeless, but you described it far differently a few years ago when I posted to you. Now you say </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">It has been a 20-year marriage, never great, but not terrible until about five years ago. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My guess is that when communication opened up he realized what he was hearing strongly suggested that he had NO CHANCE TO BE HAPPY and he is moving on. Since you two have been separated so long, it really does NOT change anything for him. I am sure he got little out of the marriage other than bills to pay.

So on the off chance that you may want to save the marriage, perhaps you should read my words carefully for in them is the way back, but it relies on YOU doing what you always said he never did, give him a reason to stay in the marriage.

You have not done that for many years now.

Please think about this and let us know how we can help and what it is you need help with.

God Bless,

JL

MDOA, it's easy to meet all the EN's when you don't have to live in a real life. Meeting them when you share a home, pay the bills, raise the kids, etc, is a lot harder. The OP always has an advantage since when they are around, meeting ENs is almost always the only task.