Just thinking about you -

You didn't reply to my last post - wondering if there is any change to your situation....

We're here..

ItHurts

Sorry about not responding to your last post. It seemed like no one else was interacting with us so that maybe it would be better to just email.

I posted something in General Questions asking for BS's who've forgiven their WS to share some of their story for my wife. I printed out what was written and gave it to her. Whether she will really read it or not, I don't know. Nothing has really changed. Yesterday we had a very emotional talk and she agreed to go to counseling before divorcing if I would move out. That would be a difficult but, I think, positive move. But I don't know if she will really follow through with it.

Almost every day is a roller coaster for me. I don't think a day has gone by that I haven't cried a bit. Yet, different times in the same day, I'll feel really strong. I'm grateful to have positive times almost every day but the swings are maddening. In a very similar way (and maybe related), my commitment to recovery wavers. At times, I'm rock solid to stay sober and keep focused on growing in my inner self. Other times, often in the same day, I am overcome with resentment and hurt and want to just say 'the hell with it' and go find another woman or at least some sexual release. It's probably my program connections more than anything that have kept me from caving. I realize that this internal struggle with duplicity doesn't make me the best candidate for my wife to reattach to but often I just think it's a lost cause and I am so tired of hurting.

How about your situation? Any changes? In hubby? In yourself? I know this would probably run contrary to your feelings, but have you ever thought about making sexual advances toward hubby with a view toward 'rocking his world' and showing him what he's missing? I don't think sex can change deep-rooted issues but it is such a powerful experience that it could move things out of 'stuck.'

I'm still trying to figure out how I can keep myself from having cynical thoughts when someone says "happy new year" to me! But I know that indicates the extent to which I have let this situation (well it is my 20 year marriage) to overshadow the rest of my life. Somehow I've got to stay in the day and not live in the looming uncertainties of the future.

XS- Has your wife made the appt. w/the councelor?

Did she read your post and the replies? If so, what were her thoughts positive/negative?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">At times, I'm rock solid to stay sober and keep focused on growing in my inner self. Other times, often in the same day, I am overcome with resentment and hurt and want to just say 'the hell with it' and go find another woman or at least some sexual release. It's probably my program connections more than anything that have kept me from caving. I realize that this internal struggle with duplicity doesn't make me the best candidate for my wife to reattach to but often I just think it's a lost cause and I am so tired of hurting.

The other reason you may not be caving is that you STILL love your wife you still want to show her the type of solid man you can be - even though you stumbled - you got up and realized your mistake - faced it and want to go forward positively with yourself and your marriage - Give yourself a pat for that..YOU DIDN'T STAY DOWN..


</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How about your situation? Any changes? In hubby? In yourself? I know this would probably run contrary to your feelings, but have you ever thought about making sexual advances toward hubby with a view toward 'rocking his world' and showing him what he's missing? I don't think sex can change deep-rooted issues but it is such a powerful experience that it could move things out of 'stuck.'

WH has not changed a bit - probably alittle more blatant. 2 months ago - I would have made a sexual advance - I still wanted him..I hate to tell you - but, I have given up hope on my WH and our marriage.
As much as I wanted things to get better - I have accepted that they won't, he won't. He will not face his demons/addictions..I am now getting prepared mentally and financially to file for D..It will take awhile to get everything in order and I will ask him to file to save me more pain but I just can't do this anymore..I can't live alone in a house w/2 people in it..I can't spend another Xmas, New Years, etc. ALONE..
Not that I want to meet someone - I don't - but, knowing your spouse is w/someone else or out looking for someone else and you remain celibate, true to your vows you get to a point where enough is enough. I'd rather truly be w/o a partner than living w/someone that doesn't want me, respect me, love me..Noone can love someone and continue to treat them this way.

As I told you b-4 - your wife does have a reason to be thankful - you have worked on change, healing yourself and your marriage. I still have hopes for you that she comes around - doesn't follow thru w/the divorce, doesn't throw 20 years away..All those memories..

I tried on NYD to ask WH why he bought me a card and present - he said "He felt like it"..I wanted to talk, I told him I needed to talk to him, that it's been months since we spoke - he wanted to take a nap..So again, I was shut out. He will not allow me to step into his space/mind/heat. I think deep inside he knows he's lost - he just doesn't want to find himself or us.
I did not buy a card, gift, I couldn't do it..for someone who is so mentally mean to me. I still have my pride, that he won't take from me.

I still have memories of the good times we had, apparently he has choosen to block those times out..and b-4 he destroys what is left - I must move forward w/o him..

Hugs to you...

XS - Here's my current situation..Not Pretty..

ItHurts,

Thank you for bringing this to my attention as I hadn't caught this post. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> Has your wife made the appt. w/the councelor?

Did she read your post and the replies? If so, what were her thoughts positive/negative? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She has not made any appointments with any counselors to my knowledge nor even spoken of it. Our interaction has been for the most part pleasant. I feel like she just wants me to keep on the other side of the emotional wall she has put up. She's probably somewhat surprised that I'm not on the cranky side because in the past I sometimes got that way when going long periods without sex. Truth is that I hate sitting on that unfulfilled longing but I am accepting it best I can. I realize that it's almost impossible for me to distinguish between healthy EN for SF and my addictive craving to medicate with sex.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The other reason you may not be caving is that you STILL love your wife you still want to show her the type of solid man you can be - even though you stumbled - you got up and realized your mistake - faced it and want to go forward positively with yourself and your marriage - Give yourself a pat for that..YOU DIDN'T STAY DOWN..
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your words here bring tears to my eyes. It means so much to me for you to say this. As you know, it's so difficult to try so hard and for it to be ignored if not despised. Your words here give me encouragement to stay on course.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I'd rather truly be w/o a partner than living w/someone that doesn't want me, respect me, love me.. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I admire the strength of your statement...and I'm also challenged by it. Because this is what my wife has SAID to me: she doesn't want me, respect me, or love me. What I understood my therapist to be saying yesterday is that she means it and it is something that comes out of her illness and it will probably never change. I am still processing what he said and what I should do with what he said. His clear message was that divorce is in my best interest for my own well-being. Funny thing is, today I've been thinking about the vows I broke and have been trying to repair which include "in sickness, in health." Of course, her choice could take any choice away from me.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> told him I needed to talk to him, that it's been months since we spoke - he wanted to take a nap..So again, I was shut out. He will not allow me to step into his space/mind/heat. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Shut out is a terrible feeling, a wound to the soul. Whether he realizes it or not, you wh not only wounds you by doing that but also wounds himself and puts himself even more deeply in the pain he is seeking to flee.

Our situations are different in that I was the WS and my wife the BS but I have felt some of what it must be like to be a BS. Through my wife's actions I have felt like my whole future will be dramatically impacted by something I now have no choice about. I know I took away from my wife by my actions and choices that she could ever look at me and know that the father of her children would never cheat on her. Whatever her part in the problems of our marriage, NO ONE deserves to be treated like that. I should've been a person with more integrity to make better choices but I wasn't. I still pass my wife in the house and long to reach out and hold her and comfort her....I long to feel a connection with her. But that is not an option for me right now and may never be again. I'm trying to come to terms with that.

Thanks again for your encouragement and hugs! I need both!

XS - So for 3 years now you have not strayed..You have been basically been in Plan A..Trying to be the best XWH and to repair the damage..Yet, 3 years later your wife decides to file for D..Seems odd. Did it take her that long to realize that she will never get over this?
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">my wife has SAID to me: she doesn't want me, respect me, or love me. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How long ago did she say this? Remember your prior actions hurt her very deeply. I'm sure many, every, BS has said this to their WS. It's our only defense mechanism to TRY to hurt you back. We feel you couldn't have loved, respected, or wanted us - if you treated us w/lies and OP.
I feel this way about my WH..I only started feeling this way when he choose to continue his many A's.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">What I understood my therapist to be saying yesterday is that she means it and it is something that comes out of her illness and it will probably never change. I am still processing what he said and what I should do with what he said. His clear message was that divorce is in my best interest for my own well-being. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I still wonder how your therapist w/only talking w/your BW a few times could come to this conclusion. I don't think they should weight heavly on what we tell them..We are biased and can exploite a condition/situation about our spouse.
Since he is aware of your sexual "issues" does he have any concerns that once you have total freedom - you could dive very deep into the addiction again. That you are holding yourself and sexual needs under control because in part you want your marriage to survive. That you will harbour the same feeling of
QUOTE] [/QUOTE]
I realize that it's almost impossible for me to distinguish between healthy EN for SF and my addictive craving to medicate with sex.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Shut out is a terrible feeling, a wound to the soul. Whether he realizes it or not, you wh not only wounds you by doing that but also wounds himself and puts himself even more deeply in the pain he is seeking to flee.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You and I both know this - because we are looking for answers - my WH only answer is to stay deep within himself. I have found out so much about feeling/relationships/addictions/ etc. yet he's done nothing..But find new MOW or SOW to run with - to fill his sexual love bank. I truly don't believe he knows any other way of life.
Yet, I finally opened my Xmas present from him yesterday - an $800.00 watch...WHY....What I want he cannot give..Why buy me anything????

We were argueing a bit today about business..I did not confide in him something that is very important and had to be handled very secretively -He was floored that I did this behind his back that I did not tell him..I explained calmly that I do not trust him with anything. I've had to hold this in and go to others for help in solving the issue. Since he lies so much - I could not not confide in him because I feared he would lie again.
I also said - We no longer have a M but we do have a business - I have let go of the M months ago..it no longer matters to me..What matters is business now. That's it..He showed no emotion to this statement..I think he realizes that I am as far gone now as he is..and he will block that too..He will never morn the loss of me or the M..He can't...and I pity him for that..to not feel or to suppress feelings.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I still pass my wife in the house and long to reach out and hold her and comfort her....I long to feel a connection with her.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">If she is still pleasant to be around - why can you not reach out? Just for a second..How do you know that deep down she's not wanting and needing the same thing you are???? Just because she has that wall doesn't mean you can't chip away at it.

I want so much for you - I cry as I write this..I want your M and the two of you to heal..Yet, I don't know either of you personally, I just feel in my heart there is something left within the two of you to become one again..Maybe I feel this connection because you have CHANGED..and I want that so bad in my spouse and I know in my heart it won't happen..so I have to see it happen for someone else..

CYBER HUGS...to you and your wife..

Bumping up for XS...

ItHurts

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> If she is still pleasant to be around - why can you not reach out? Just for a second..How do you know that deep down she's not wanting and needing the same thing you are???? Just because she has that wall doesn't mean you can't chip away at it.</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have reached out and caressed her hair and I hugged her after our daughter returned to college and she was crying. But she tenses up when I do that as if she is afraid that I will take it further or get the wrong idea that she is receptive to it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I want so much for you - I cry as I write this..I want your M and the two of you to heal..Yet, I don't know either of you personally, I just feel in my heart there is something left within the two of you to become one again..Maybe I feel this connection because you have CHANGED..and I want that so bad in my spouse and I know in my heart it won't happen..so I have to see it happen for someone else.. </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Saturday I tried to talk to her about going for counseling again and brought up what my therapist had said about her having borderline traits. She flipped out and attacked me physically. I had to literally hold her arms to protect myself and still came away with gouges and scratches on my neck, face, and chest. That left me on the verge of despair as it triggers associations with being physically abused by my parents. After thinking it over since then I called and told her that I will not talk to her any more about counseling, that she knows that I don't want a divorce but since she seems determined to get it that I will cooperate and try to make it as easy and inexpensive as possible. At least in this moment, I have totally given up. It's NOT what I want but neither do I want to keep fighting what seems inevitable as that seems counterproductive to healing and potentially adding even more damage to our kids. I WISH IT COULD BE DIFFERENT. But so far such wishing seems just to cause more pain. I appreciate so much your support and concern. I'm sorry that we're not going to be a couple that makes it. There are lots of such couples here on MB though. And lot of others that don't. The tragic truth is that sometimes we just don't have any choice about which category we fall into. But with all truths, nothing is to be gained by trying to deny or escape the truth. Healing and freedom come from embracing truth...even the tragic truths. May God help us.

XS- </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Saturday I tried to talk to her about going for counseling again and brought up what my therapist had said about her having borderline traits. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">OUCH - Major LB here...I'd probably be raving mad too if my WH told me "his IC" thinks I have BPD...even though she has seen him a couple of times (quite awhile ago)..No matter how nice you try and say it..it's a not a good thing to say to a BS....Even if it's true it would taken the wrong way...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">She flipped out and attacked me physically. I had to literally hold her arms to protect myself and still came away with gouges and scratches on my neck, face, and chest. That left me on the verge of despair as it triggers associations with being physically abused by my parents. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That was way out of line...My WH has ticked me off bad and yes, I've wanted to lash out but can't for whatever reason..THough, I am pretty good at throwing shoes at walls..haha

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">After thinking it over since then I called and told her that I will not talk to her any more about counseling, that she knows that I don't want a divorce but since she seems determined to get it that I will cooperate and try to make it as easy and inexpensive as possible. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I think it was good that you let her know again - that a divorce is not what you want - but, you will be man and deal with her discision. Like it or not you will accept it...

I'm sorry things don't' seem to be getting any better for you..Your right about the truth and facing it..I have finally done that and now I know that I must file for D..Even though I don't want too I know for myself I must do this. WH behaviour is very destructive and he is effecting all facets of our lives. This isn't just about him..He's actions are effecting our business too and THAT scares the crap out of me..and again he's in denial that this whole mess that has following into our business is relevant to his A"s...It is...and there is NO doubt in my mind..

I know that you gave me credit on prior posts for trying to save my M and understanding his addictions - but you get to a point that nothing you do can save them from themselves..and it's time to let go of the rope..and I must.

Hugs...