HeHeHe.

Sex would be nice, but really all I need is attention and your input. So, I had to retitle my thread. However, feel free to discuss needing sex. I have no intention, BTW, of revirginizing. 7 years! Even 7 months seems long.

Please read on.

Over the river and through the woods,
It's back to counseling we go.

Some of you may recall that in late August I agreed to go to marraige conseling with my estranged husband provided he make the arrangements and pay for it since I was back at school.

I'm not surprised you don't remember. It's been over four months!

about once a month, I'd ask if he'd done anything about it, and for various reasons, he hadn't. Now, we have an appointment on Thursday.

I'm not particularly happy about it. I'd much rather just get divorced at this point. **

Anyway, I developed a plan of attack with Cerri's help.In my first session, I'm going to hand the MC a short of list of what I need to have happen before I can consider staying married to B. I added deadlines.
1. The first phase in Situation X has to be resolved by March 1, and I need to be given documentation.
2. The rest of the inventory needs to be removed from my home by April 15.

(B. will say that's not enough time. However, he's had over three years, so yes, it is enough time.)

3. Become fiscally responsible. Run his business like a business, take a salary and make a profit, or get a job working for someone else and keep business as hobby.

4. Address verbal abuse pattern. I'm bowing here to public opinion that my h. was verbally abusive. His way of getting what he wants is to shout down the other party. If I left an arguement, he'd follow me around even unlocking the bathroom door to continue the argument. Recently, when we were arguing, B. told our older daughter "We're not fighting. If we were fighting, your mommy would be hitting me." I've never hit him! I later told OD she was right: Mommy and daddy were fighting.

5. No working out of the home. None, nada, zilch.

6. Openess and honesty about the escort services, porn and possible OW 2001 and previous.

So, am I totally nuts? I'd also like to add for discussion in the session that I'm only there because I feel I owe it to my girls and to God. I don't want to be there, and I feel a great deal of anxiety about the siutation. What do you think?

**NOTE TO NEWBIES: I've been working to save my marriage for a long time, even before my registration date. I've been separated since April 2003. I spent years talking to Steve Harley alone. When my H finally agreed to counseling, we've been to three different counselors including Steve Harley. It became evident in the last attempt, that I was there to get straightened out so that I could be happily married to Bill without B. modifying even one of his behaviors. Deadlines came and went, and no change. It's been over a year since I quit Marriage Counseling and filed for divorce.

<small>[ January 15, 2005, 09:06 PM: Message edited by: greengables ]</small>

Ow. Where to start. . .
If possible, appear open to the counselor. I know this will be hard. Perhaps the counselor will shortly come to the same conclusion as you, or B is an excellent manipulator. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

BTW, we're going out in N Hope tonight. Call if you want to meet up. I still haven't reprogrammed my cell phone.

Oh, shoot! I'd love to go. But I have a speech to work on, I'm priming the "new" family room, siezed from the girls after I moved all their toys to the newly painted basement, I've got tons of ironing to do and I'm going to meet my sister in town tomorrow to watch the Eagles and celebrate her birthday.
E-A-G-L-E-S! GO Eagles!

The only bummer is, I can't wear my awesome new purple sweater -- enemy colors.

Have a great time. Tell the girls I said hello.

Bumping my own thread so someone will notice my hot new subject line.

Yep. I've nothing better to do. Yep. I'm desperate.

Hi GG,

I did read your thread BEFORE you re-titled it (honest!!!)

I'm wondering a couple of things - firstly, why are you going?
Have you really given up completely, or does maybe part of you hope that the MC works but you don't want to admit it even to yourself?

I'm not sure it's right to go into councelling with a list of "demands" maybe that's the outcome you want, but is it really right to be so confrontational from the start?

GG

I'm from Philly! I'll be relocating there with the kiddies at some point this year, so we should hook up. We'll be in Montgomery County near Chestnut Hill.

G-O
E-A-G-L-E-S
G-O

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

As far as sex, I've got a LONG time to wait now that I've filed. 6 months of no sex with the Fogman. I'm having dreams already, which are freaking me out.

Now, as far as your sitch, which I don't know a whole lot about, but just looking at your list...it seems like a LOT OF WORK needs to be done! You don't sound too enthused about working on the M at this point, but that is just my take on it.

You two will need to do the EN's questionnaires again, right? He sounds like he has issues and is Love Busting so much that you are not interested in him right now.

I think he needs to take more of the initiative at this point. Your Love Bank sounds pretty empty, otherwise, you'd be jumping at the chance to talk about things. Are you still hopeful about your R? If he is genuine and actually does the work that he needs to do, maybe you will begin to feel for him again. Can you two discuss this openly?

You have boundaries now, walls that have made things easier to live with. Reopening all of this up is bound to stir up confusing feelings for you. You might not even want to go there.

Either way, take things VERY SLOW.

Hi gg. My first question is why have you waited to get D?

When you talk about your H you don't sound angry so much as you sound like you simply don't like him let alone love him.

My second question is are you going through the motions with counceling, not expecting it to work, or hoping it won't work so you can D?

I'm not being critical but my H did not go into counceling to save or marriage & during our "recovery" he was not participating. It was more like he was biding his time, going to counceling only to say he went to counceling & it didn't work. It's my belief that H was willing to wait for love for me to jump back into his heart but not willing to change his behavior or open his heart to me so that it might.

Before anyone jumps on me for a DJ H said this: "I think the counceling did more harm than good." But he was unwilling to see someone else who might be better.

It's not wrong to not want to go but to go knowing you won't participate is a waste of time & money. Please know I'm not criticizing you, I know what you've been through with your H & that your love bank is empty. But if you really don't love him & don't want a future with him why not move on now or participate in the counceling with an open heart.

Got my attention <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

You missed an eventful night last night. Had a great time out, and the live music was great. First time in 3 years I ran into X, out to dinner with his friends and I finally met the girlfriend. And we had a short conversation about the kids.
She seems very sweet, said she understands X is a different man now and that he's Mr. Mom. Hmmm, he had alot to learn. I'm guessing she's more on his level. Best part, I looked HOT!

Oh, BTW, my clock is no longer ticking away the years - but that's a phone conversation. Hehehe!

Thanks everyone.

Nam, one thing I did promise to B was that if he made the appointment, I would do my best in the counseling. I know how your h. and many spouses are so far go that they are like bumbs on the log during counseling. Heck, I was on the receiving end of that many times myself.

I think the reason I haven't gotten divorced is because I strongly disapprove of divorce! My gut is against divorce. I know it is the only peaceable resolution in many circs. But, I also know I promised B and God, 'til death do us part. Unfortunately, if nothing changed that death might have been coming a lot sooner than most expected. I'm only partially joking here. In addition, in getting divorced, I'll be admitting I made a major mistake in my life that affected three people besides myself.

Graeme, You've got a good point. However, I think demands are needed at this point. If I went in with my usual non-confrontational stance, I'd be falling right into the trap Nam pointed out. I couldn't open myself up, reopen old wounds, etc if there was no point. There would be no point if Situation X still isn't being addressed. Situation X could explode and ruin H's life and make my children's lives and mine very uncomfortable.

What Am I Doing, B can't do the ENQ again because that would necessitate doing it a FIRST time. I waited 5 months for him to do it while we checked in with Steve Harley on a regular basis. It was at that point, I moved out.

Here's the real kicker. I feel more like me, more like who I want to be, and on the right path good relations, and my H. likes me less and less every day. Considering our past, where he didn't really like me unless I was an utter doormat and let him live his life without complaint about how it negatively affected me, I'm surprised he can like me less and less.

Personally, I think he just wants to live in my home, have me do his wash, pick up his shoes, wake him up in the morning, cook dinner, pay all the bills, and subsidize his business by relieving him of most of the family's finances.

If we divorce, he'll have to find a home more suitable than his parents' deteriorating farmhouse. (Boy, I could tell you stories! Plywood over the whole in the kitchen floor. Crumbling plaster from the walls and ceilings. And DIRT!) He'd also have to pay child support. He'd have to be responsible.

A total DJ, but one many people have said. My H. is not responsible to the extent normally expected of grown adult men, let alone 54 year olds with a young family to feed.

Wow. I'm totally bitter. I guess it's the thought that this is only something Bill could get around to in five months since broaching the subject. That we're still dealing with the same issues. I know I can't live with certain behaviors, I know because I've tried. I just don't know if B. can change. I doubt it.

GG It's been a long time since youve been to MC with B. You never know how he's going to treat it this time.

I agree that starting off confrontational would be counter productive.

I reccommend that you try starting off with an open mind and see where things start heading. If you present a list of demands that he has not and may not meet, your only dissappointing yourself. You are also pushing him into a possition that he make prommisses that he can't keep and, again, only dissappoint you.

Take it slow and see what happens.

And remember, you got lots of us in your corner!

Now, as for the sex thing <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Been out of the house almost a year and a half. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" />

Went out with 2 beatiful women but struck out <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

WIWH

#1...Hi, newly!! Hi, WIWH!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

#2--GG, I know the whole, long, convoluted story (w/o knowing the exact nature of "the crime") and here's my take on this sudden turn of events.

At this late date, it seems unlikely that there has been a true "come to Jesus" moment. Remember, men (and women) like this are usually NOTHING if not consistent, and he has been EXTREMELY consistent since day one: promise everything, do nothing, and see if she'll re-engage with more empty promises. My dear, GG, I have to tell you, my gut says that this is more of the same.

Thus, I think your plan of attack is actually pretty much on the money. My IC once told me that if they promise to do something, then don't follow through...what they meant was "no", they just didn't have the guts to say so. I think that sums up your B in one sentence. I might suggest narrowing down your list/plan of attack to three "core issues" like:

1) Business is to be conducted like a business--professionally, ethically and morally beginning immediately. That includes inventory, location, criminal activity, and fiscal accountability so other's SEE where the finances go. Your boundary is that you can no longer be in a relationship with someone who conducts criminal business, period.

2) Personal responsibility for: personal finances, personal issues, personal sexuality, personal morality. No more blaming GG for B's choices!! Your boundary is that you can no longer be in a relationship with someone who can not face their own personal responsibility and consequences for affairs, indecency, and criminality, period.

3) Admitting, facing and addressing the issues of criminal behavior, sexual inappropriateness, and verbal abuse. This can be done in ways that are appropriate and comfortable with B that the two of you agree on--but you must agree to his "plan". Your boundary is that you can no longer be in a relationship with someone who will not admit and address their issues, or who will place the blame on YOU for their issues, period.

See, GG, by narrowing it down and stating what your boundary is, you are not attacking per se...you are stating what you are and are not willing to accept. This is not being "b!tchy"--it is merely stating fact. Furthermore, these are facts that B knows well and has refused to budge on for years.

My friend, I would not hold out too much hope that this is a real attempt at reconciling. I believe this is more likely an attempt on B's part to re-engage you in the old cycle and the old pattern, and see if he can once again promise the moon and not have to do anything.

Let us know how it goes!


CJ

I've read alot of what Cerri had to say to alot of Mb'ers and she is pretty cool. Wish I had known her during the heat of the affairs and during the "life support" phase of my former marriage...

Give it a try. You have nothing to lose but he does. And I commend you for trying yet once again. I agree. He must do those things if love can ever be restored and the marriage beginning to mend. He cannot waffle around anymore.

Now as to the subject line...Yea, it stinks...but I have kissed a bit..well alot...and that's ok..but it's not the deed. Do I wanna? Sure. Am I gonna? Probably. When I have no idea. There's nothing like a job change/loss to suddenly become like a reverse-viagra effect on this girl. I've been sooooo well how can you put it...waiting for the right time...and whammo! You lose your mojo b/c of the job thing.

Darn. I need to get my mojo back.

Let us know if you have decided to get yours back ok?

GG

I agree with CJ, his promises are really only a "No", with no backbone.

I too believed in the "til death do we part". No one in my whole family had ever been divorced. My father was a fundamental minister, many ministers and missionaries in my family. I couldnt believe that I had made such a huge mistake and I had no where to turn.

I thought thats what his family also believed in, til recently I found out that on our wedding day his mother's advice as they walked out the door headed for the church was "if it doesnt work out you can always get divorced"

For 26 years I struggled with this pain of failure (I could never let my family know the things he had been doing to me) always the hope that he would change, grow up, mature, stop the drugs, stop the drinking, stop the affair, stop the illegal activities,stop the abuse, become the Godly man he pretended to be in front of other people.

He kept enough bait on the line for me to hope he would change. His promises to me, the minister, marriage counselor were empty. finally the counselor told me. I have to stop the dance, change the record.

I realized that the "til death do us part" was me dying an early death.

My health was not good. I was so depressed and emotionally beaten. If my X didnt beat me to death, or if he didnt kill me in a drunken car accident, I would have killed myself from either heart problems or suicide.

It took me a long time to hold my head up and say enough is enough. God knows that I did my best, I turned it all over to God and now I have my peace and health back. X is still not happy, but I am

Like you said, you are liking yourself now, you feel like yourself again and that should tell you where to go from here.

I will be praying for you, I have been there

BTW, where near Philly do you live. I live in SJ. 15 min from Walt Whitman

<small>[ January 18, 2005, 09:08 PM: Message edited by: sunrise1 ]</small>

OK As for the "Till death do we part!

I also feel that way. In fact I mentioned that to X and she said " Those are only words that don't really mean anything anymore"

As she goes off to teach her sunday school class. Go figure !