Jan 2 my husband moved in with his sister. I asked him to leave since he really hurt me by choosing to go hunting over the New Year's holiday instead of spending it with our son and me. Each time we speak we end up in an argument. I am ok with him coming home and working on resolving our issues. We even agreed to attend the seminar in March since we cannot afford the seminar this month. When I share my feelings with him he blows them off and calls my crying whining. I cannot make him understand that it is hurt, it is pain – I cannot control it – I cannot stop crying. Today it has been an all day thing. He wants to kick back and talk about nothing when I feel that we should grab the bull by the horns and deal with the issues so that we can heal our marriage and be happy. He says I am being pushy. This makes me feel that he wants to taste freedom for a while and then come back to me. The wife waiting in the wings. This is not me. We cannot communicate and I make him hate me by being “pushy”. I do not know how to be any other way since we need to deal with it and I am sick of hurting. I try to hide from hurt – it was my friend as a child and I need to deal with that. I explained to my husband that I realized I have been selfish and controlling. His response, “I told you that you were that way.” It was a horrible day. He says each time that I speak to him and push as well as whine it takes us back to step 1. I am trying not to but doing it his way is really causing me harm – he doesn’t care. Just 10 minutes ago he screamed at me and told me that he wants OFF the phone – I talk too long and it is frustrating him. I am trying to get him to understand – he does not care. He says he cares when I cry and that he hurts the same way I do but he does not show it. Going to concerts, drinks with his sister, laughing – how is that hurting????? I was crying and told him you can get off the phone – he told me to hang up – I could not so I told him to – he did – each time he does this it shocks me – how can he not care that his wife is breaking? I am close to losing it.

Also forgot to say that he says he is not ready for a counselor and he needs time. If he says he wants to work it out, he loves me, he cares - that doesn't sound like someone who needs time. He cannot tell me why he does not want to see a counselor. I said there is a reason for every feeling - it is sad if he does not know the answer and even sadder if he does and will not share it. I feel I am his wife and owed an explanation - I need to understand. He says no reason - yes - there is a reason for every feeling. He is driving me nuts and away.

Ok - you can see I am losing it. Something else to add - we met in junior high, had our son at 16, married at 18 - in April 05 we will be married for 12 years. How can I convince him that counseling is the only way to fix this? We do not have the skills - both grew up in broken, dysfunctional homes - he does not know his father. He says he does not want to be attacked - I told him that is not what this is about - it is about fixing our marriage. He said that we will go - OK when? Can't answer that.

Pooki,

First, you have to settle down! I am the queen of "let's talk this out", and my XH was the classic avoider. We had our share of difficulties during our 19 years of M, and the more I pushed, the more he backed off. The more I begged and cried, the angrier he got and the more he'd tell me to "suck it up" and quit crying.

Point is, you have to change how you are acting, because your current state is not an attractive alternative. Would you rather be with someone who is crying and begging and angry, or with your sister kicking back and relaxing and having fun?

I totally understand your frustration and your pain. Lived it. But from what I learned (too late), I'm telling you I think you need to back off on the talking and trying to keep him on the phone, or forcing him to spend a day talking. My XH would hang up on me, too. I hated it, but it means they're done talking. You can't beat "understanding" into anyone--believe me, I've tried! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" />

I do agree that you two need counseling!! I believe had my XH and I gone years ago when we were having issues, our M might not have fallen apart (though my XH is an alcoholic, and I didn't see anything about addiction in your post, so I think you're on far better ground to start with).

But how to get him there. Ask him. If he commits, great. And it sounds like he has--to the seminar in March. Mark the date on the calendar. And in your last post, it even sounds like he might consider MC before that. Great! But in the mean time, if he doesn't want to talk about "issues", or if he says he's done, let it drop. As hard as it is (and I KNOW how hard it is!!), just say okay and quit talking about it for now.

And as for his feeling like he was being attacked...my XH mentioned that many times. I didn't see it as attacking, but he felt I was being judgemental and controlling--trying to make him someone he was not.

Also, have you guys filled out the EN survey? I'm betting a big thing for him is to be respected and admired, and he's not feeling that when you're crying or begging him to talk to you about your issues, and demanding answers from him.

(I stress again, I do understand how you feel and the frustration you are going through because I am a very verbal person and I want to talk things out!! But sometimes we have to back off.)

And finally, have you been assessed for depression? You might do well to go to the Dr. if you haven't already and talk to him about that. Sounds like your emotions are really on a rollercoaster. The doctor might be able to help you get them leveled out so that you can think more clearly as you work through your marriage issues.

In my opinion, unless something is going on behind the scenes with him (and perhaps I'm blind, but from what you posted, I wouldn't get that idea), I think you have a lot to work with. You have a long history together. Read up on the MB concepts. Go check out the book "His Needs/Her Needs".

LL

Pooki, I'm sorry you are hurting so much. There will be an end to your suffering, I promise.

LL has excellent advice. Stop crying to your husband. That's what girlfriends are for. Also, stop letting your imagination run away with you. The whole "taste of freedom" arguement is a fallacy.

First, he's living with his sister, for heaven's sake! Unless she's a single swinger, he's not living la vida loca.

Second, this was not his idea originally. You asked him to leave.

Third, a spouse who comes home after a taste of freedom is often MORE invested in making the marriage work. Freedom, even for 30 year old men, is not what it's cracked up to be. Freedom is lonely. Remember that Janis Joplin line "Freedom's just another word for nothing left to lose"?

So, now you want him back. Good. Given he's not ready, your current job until March is to make you and your home the most attractive spot in the world to HIM. This is Plan A. Please read up on Plan A on this site and in Dr. Harley's books.

You know your spouse better than anyone. You two grew up together and have been partners and parents since 16. Therefore, you know exactly what he likes and doesn't like. Give him what he likes, and eliminate what he doesn't like.

I also think you should read up on the Policy of Joint Agreement. I suspect the New Year's fiasco started with him wanting to do something you didn't, and you wanting him to do something he didn't. Instead of protected, productive negotiating, you both probably succumbed to Selfish Demands, a big LoveBuster.

In fact, forcing your husband to continue talking to you on the phone when he'd rather not, is a selfish demand.

You need to eliminate them and all other LoveBusters starting... let's see... this exact second.

The rationale behind that is your H. won't allow you to make deposits in the LoveBank right now. Therefore, any little LoveBuster decreases his love for you dramatically.

If you follow, Plan A between now and whenever you start counseling, you will have created an environment in which your spouse feels safe to invest in the marriage.

So, relax. Breathe. Read this site and Dr. Harley's books, especially LoveBusters and Emotional Needs.

Sorry for the long post. I need to print the advice out and keep it with me ALL the time. I do not understand men - they are untalkative and unemotional. Yesterday I sent him an IM that told him I do not want to make him hate me but every time I open my mouth - he does. I also told him that I am sorry that he does. His reply, "i dont hate u, just chill out. luv u." This is on IM because we scream - ok - I scream at him on the phone. I threw the Basic Concepts paperwork in his truck. Last week I threw my phone against the wall. I never knew I had this much anger. Fortunately, I put my phone back together and it works.

By going to his sisters (she is single but in a relationship) he has proven that he wants to work it out. He could go to any one of his *single* friends - this is an issue as well.

I go up and down. I am a totally emotional creature. I explain, over explain, share my feelings - I tell him why I feel the way I do and he thinks that is crazy - I know I do this because this is what I need. I explained this to him - I believe he heard me but he was at a point that he just wanted to get away from me. Can ANYONE please explain why men are like this? My need to understand consumes me and I only want him to tell me or someone to tell me how someone can love another and NOT care they are crying - or want to comfort them - or want to explain to them "why"???

Can I also explain that I am 110% jealous? We went through a lot growing up together. He cheated, I cheated - we are both monogamous but I have these fears deep down. Pornography has also been an issue in our home – guess it is a house right now? He explains that it has nothing to do with me – it is visual – guess what – I am right here – visualize me. BUT maybe I am the source of the stress? Anyway – he told me that he can never look at pornography again but me telling him that he cannot look at a man’s magazine (Maxim) is not going to work. He enjoys reading them – or to me looking at the scantily clad women? Which is true – I have no clue. He tells me that I should not feel insecure – I am the most beautiful woman he has ever seen and he cannot understand it. He says my childhood should stay there – over all it does but I have residual issues. Pornography is a HUGE one. My sisters and I were….I pause because I am afraid to share everything but then if I do not how can all the issues come to light, be taken into consideration, and heal my marriage? We were involved (best word I can think of) in a child pornography ring. I was 5, my sisters 10 & 11. Unfortunately, this was not all. Each of use share this abuser but then we each have abusers we can call our own. Can you ever heal from that? I don’t dwell on it but it affects me. I’m just screwed up.

Thank you for your help and it IS helping. Please keep it coming because I am up and down and anything helps. I had the phone last night and was about to call a suicide hotline. It seems easier to try once you already have but I am in a different place now. It comes into my head but I know I cannot do it. I love my son. Before I convinced myself that he would be better off without me. I was almost gone but my stepmother found me. I was in ICU for four or so days then in Charter Hospital of Kingwood for another 2-3 weeks. I know I am not there now and will be calling a counselor Monday.

After reading Plan A & Plan B - I have a few questions. The plans are for couples who are going through infidelity. Although we experienced infidelity (both sides) it has been at least 7 or 8 years. Although, after further reading - it seems that this can relate to my relationship. I back off - speak to him when he wants to speak but without pushing and only about topics not related to my relationship. I work on my own issues while outwardly conveying a sense of togetherness. I feel together today BUT only because of the words of encouragement.

Do I have this concept correct?

Hi Pooki,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pooki_Marie_Freeman:
<strong> Can ANYONE please explain why men are like this? My need to understand consumes me and I only want him to tell me or someone to tell me how someone can love another and NOT care they are crying - or want to comfort them - or want to explain to them "why"???</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I'm a guy, and the same thing happens to my wife, so maybe I can help a little with that.

You ask "why are men like this?".

My question is, "what other way should they be?"

Men are men. They are not women. They are wired differently from women. One of the falacies that we get into with all our gender-equality stuff is the idea that people are just people and incidentally are either male or female. I used to believe that too - but it's simply not true.

It is unreasonable to expect your H to respond to things in the same way you respond. As long as you hold on to that expectation, you will be frustrated - 'cause it ain't gonna happen.

I believe that your H probably does care very much about you. Why do you think he doesn't care? I suspect that you think he doesn't care because you expect him to react to you in a way which is simply unnatural for him - and when he doesn't react that way, you conclude that he doesn't care.

I'll try to explain...

Men are all about action - about doing something. If you give your H something to do - some action that he can take that will produce some desirable (for him) result - he is likely to do it. But if you expect him to sit with you and be miserable just because you are miserable, that's not going to work for him. If you want to talk about problems, without talking about solutions, that's not going to work for him.

... because he wants to do something.

You sit and cry. There is nothing he can do about it. That makes him feel powerless and useless. He's going to get bored and frustrated with that.

I remember one time leaving my wife sitting in the middle of the kitchen floor crying, and just walking outside to do some yard work, because everything I said made her cry more - and there was nothing there for me to do - so I went out and sprayed the roses - which I knew she wanted me to do sometime.

If you give a man a problem to which there is no solution, he will be bored with it. If you sit around and cry about things that cannot be changed, he will be bored by it.

If you ask your H questions, but don't listen to the answers, he'll be frustrated by it - because answering a question is a task (something to do) for him - and by not listening to his answer you are frustrating him.

Really, it is great that you are asking this question. If you understand men in general you will stop expecting them to act like women - and you will be much less frustrated. It's like my little girl expecting the cat to play with her in a certain way. Maybe a dog would do that, but the cat won't. She cries about it because she feels rejected by the cat. She's only 4. She'll figure it out. I'm not trying to critisize you. Most of us don't figure this out for a long time. Just as cats and dogs have to be played with differently, men and women have to be related to differently.

I hope that helps a little.

-AD

Thank you - it helps. But I feel and maybe in a man's eye it is different but I feel that I am trying to do something- trying to give him something to do. I asked him to write down each of the issues he would like to discuss - he refused. I asked him to go to a counselor with me while he is with his sister - he said he needs time. He knows he wants to work things out so what does "needs time" mean? He can’t explain that – says he does not know. There IS a reason for each feeling – does he not know? Or will he just not tell me? I don’t know because HE WILL NOT SHARE TELL ME. Right now he wants to simply not discuss any of the problems we have and spend meaningless time together. The reason I say it is meaningless is because it is time spent on making me miserable (I cannot stress enough how miserable) while he is sucked into his coping mechanism - running away. Why do I feel he doesn’t care – he is unwilling to seek counseling which I feel will help tremendously and he refuses to do anything. I told him – What is the goal you want at the end of all this? When you find that goal – take action everyday to get to that goal. It doesn’t happen and I am CLOSE to be fed up and soon there is no going back.

Pooki,

I does sound like you have given your H some reasonable things to work on. I'm sorry he's not picking up the ball and running with it.

As for men and "feelings", I think men in general don't trust "feelings". They spend a good part of their developing years learning how to replace "feelings" with "thoughts". It is often the case that when you ask a man how he feels about something, he will not know the answer - because the question presumes that he has "feelings" about the matter - which from his perspective may not even matter.

Of course, men do have feelings, but I think you might make more progress by asking him his "thoughts" about a subject. Then, and this is very important, listen to him.

Now about your behaviour towards him...

From your description of the situation - I'll be honest with you here - you are not presenting yourself to him in an attractive way. There is nothing in what you are describing that would draw a man to you. Do you want his pity or do you want his love?

You need to get a grip on yourself - stop chasing him, clinging to him. Stand up. Figure out some things you want in life that you can do without him - and do them. That doesn't mean chasing after another man, but just taking charge of some areas in your life and living those parts of your life well - and enjoying it. When a man sees a happy woman who is taking charge of her life and enjoying it, she will be attractive to him. A clinging, pitiful, helpless, crying woman is usually not.

You can do it!

So, imagine that he is gone on a trip and he is coming home in 2 months. While he's gone, live as well as you can. Have interesting adventures with your child. Take on some household project. If you work, do something great at work. Make some plans with your (girl)friends and go out to a show. Take up a sport or hobby. In short, take charge of your life. Don't just sit around and cry and wait for him.

Now, the dangerous part is if you are doing this only for show - to show him something. Don't fall into that trap. Just do it for you and your child - and don't stop when your H comes home.

-AD

Disclaimer: My life (and marriage) is messed up too. Consider my advice with that in mind.

Here are some other thoughts. 1. Stop explaining over and over again your feelings... for now. You may need other tools to communicate areas where you are unhappy. 2. Don't stress out or even ask if your h. has read the Basic Concepts. Pushing the concepts can be seen as a selfish demand and a method for you to force your way on him. The best way is to live the basic concepts with him.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pooki_Marie_Freeman:
<strong> Jan 2 my husband moved in with his sister. I asked him to leave since he really hurt me by choosing to go hunting over the New Year's holiday instead of spending it with our son and me. Each time we speak we end up in an argument. I am ok with him coming home and working on resolving our issues. We even agreed to attend the seminar in March since we cannot afford the seminar this month. When I share my feelings with him he blows them off and calls my crying whining. I cannot make him understand that it is hurt, it is pain – I cannot control it – I cannot stop crying. Today it has been an all day thing. He wants to kick back and talk about nothing when I feel that we should grab the bull by the horns and deal with the issues so that we can heal our marriage and be happy. He says I am being pushy. This makes me feel that he wants to taste freedom for a while and then come back to me. The wife waiting in the wings. This is not me. We cannot communicate and I make him hate me by being “pushy”. I do not know how to be any other way since we need to deal with it and I am sick of hurting. I try to hide from hurt – it was my friend as a child and I need to deal with that. I explained to my husband that I realized I have been selfish and controlling. His response, “I told you that you were that way.” It was a horrible day. He says each time that I speak to him and push as well as whine it takes us back to step 1. I am trying not to but doing it his way is really causing me harm – he doesn’t care. Just 10 minutes ago he screamed at me and told me that he wants OFF the phone – I talk too long and it is frustrating him. I am trying to get him to understand – he does not care. He says he cares when I cry and that he hurts the same way I do but he does not show it. Going to concerts, drinks with his sister, laughing – how is that hurting????? I was crying and told him you can get off the phone – he told me to hang up – I could not so I told him to – he did – each time he does this it shocks me – how can he not care that his wife is breaking? I am close to losing it. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">

I am new to this whole posting thing so forgive me if I mess up. I am recently divorce woman with two girls. I was in a very similar situation just a year ago, just the roles were reversed. It wasn't until this weekend, three months after our divorce was finalized, I am capable of admitting to what really bothered me during our marriage that is really sad. I was just the same way your H is acting and the reason for that was very simple, I was hurt so much and I didn't know how to tell him. I felt as my EX-H was way to pushy and the more he pushed, the more I pushed away. There was a post from you stating that "he needs space", and believe me, there is no other way to describe it. That is exactly what he means, space. He probably has no idea how much and for how long, I was the same way. Once he gets the space, he will be able to sort his feelings out and where he is emotionally and once he is able to do that he will change how he feels about being away from you. If you are capable of giving him time to do that, and give yourself time to really relax and thing about thing, it will give both of you completely different prospective on everything. The way you described him, how he almost "changes personalities" when he is around you and when he is not, its because, he doesn’t want you to know that he cares, even though down deep inside he cares more than he wants to show you. I was the same way and today I am sitting in my office crying, because I have finally realized that I messed everything up. Give him time to miss you, and give yourself time to miss him.

Well I guess what I am trying to tell you is that give him time, because if you push him, your chanced of loosing him are much greater then if you just let him do what he needs to do for himself for a while.

Talk to your girlfriends, and if you don't have many, try to find a hobby, or just simply try to concentrate on other things, despite how hard it may be. I know it hurts, and trust me he is hurting as well just in a different way. Once you have time to think about it, try to write it down and then meet somewhere in a public place, it will help both of you to keep the conversation calm, and discuss what you have written.

Pooki,

Here are a few more thoughts on your situation - going back to your first post.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Pooki_Marie_Freeman:
<strong> Each time we speak we end up in an argument.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Can you describe how that argument develops?

Who typically initiates the conversation?

Is the conversation begun respectfully - without demands, accusations, blame?

How does it transition into an argument?

Does it just build up around some disagreement - or does it blow up instantly when one person says something which hurts the other?

I can tell you that this often happens in my marriage, and although I can sometimes figure out later how it happened, in the immediacy of the situation, I don't always avoid it.

There are one example of a pattern that often gets us into an argument :
Me) (walking into the room) "How's it going?"
Her) (looking up from her reading) "What do you mean?! How is what going?"
Me) (surprised) "Hey, I didn't mean to bother you. Sorry."
Her) "Well, I just don't know what you mean. Why are you running in here and interrogating me?"
Me) (feeling hurt) "I'm sorry."
Her) "I wish you would stop saying 'I'm sorry'. Just leave me alone!"

OK, in this scenario, what I think is happening is that my W is always full of guilt. Probably there is something she thinks she is supposed to be doing (of which I may not even be aware). When I ask "How's it going?", she takes it as some kind of sarcastic remark. She thinks that I am accusing her of not doing what she is supposed to be doing. She reacts defensively. I'm hurt because I was just trying to connect with her and she's pushing me away. At that point, the best I can do is withdraw - leave her alone. She will likely come in a few minutes and say "I'm sorry." But, if I don't figure that out quickly enough, the thing can blow up into a two-hour argument with the big insults thrown around.

Puki, please take the time to think about how your discussions become arguments. Think about what you can do to break the cycle. What often happens is one person gets hurt, and instead of saying "I am hurt", they react by saying something hurtful in return. Then it spirals out of control.

Try to begin the convo in a respectful way. If you have some complaint, present it in a straigtforward way, without manipulations. The formula is "I feel xxx when you do yyy." or even "I feel xxx when yyy happens." Complaining (in small doses) is unavoidable - although rarely welcome. When you tell your H your complaint, try to avoid blaming, accusing, critisizing.

When you feel hurt in a conversation, do not say something which "hurts him back". This is counterproductive. Just let him know you are hurt and, if he continues to hurt you, withdraw from the conversation.

If he seems hurt by something you have said, listen to him - and try to avoid hurting him in the future.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> When I share my feelings with him he blows them off and calls my crying whining. I cannot make him understand that it is hurt, it is pain – I cannot control it – I cannot stop crying.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, maybe you need to find a different approach. You are right you "cannot make him understand". You can only explain. Having explained once, let it drop. Sometimes a person has to think about something for awhile.

What kind of "feelings" are you sharing with him? If you say "I feel that you don't care about me", how can he respond to that? There is nothing he can say or do in response to that. Instead you might say, "when you do xxx, I feel cared for." Make xxx as concrete as possible. Don't say "when you encourage me, I feel cared for" - because then you have to explain what it is that you find encouraging. An example of a concrete statement, is "When you take the time to listen to me, I feel cared for."

One last thing...
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong> He says I am being pushy. This makes me feel that he wants to taste freedom for a while and then come back to me.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He is giving you some very specific information - and you are not listening to him. You turn it around into something else. He says that he feels pushed. You respond as if anybody who feels pushed wants out of the marriage. Listen to him. Figure out what you are doing that makes him feel pushed. Think about it and see if there is any other approach that you might take. Consider the question: Do you really allow him to have a voice or do you think that if he has his own goals, ideas, desires that means he wants to to leave you?

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>I make him hate me by being “pushy”. I do not know how to be any other way since we need to deal with it and I am sick of hurting. [...]
I explained to my husband that I realized I have been selfish and controlling.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So, you have acknowledged your part in this. You need to figure out how to be another way. You should not expect him just accept that you are pushy and you can't help it. It is your issue. You are the one who needs to deal with it.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>I was crying and told him you can get off the phone – he told me to hang up – I could not so I told him to – he did – each time he does this it shocks me – how can he not care that his wife is breaking? I am close to losing it. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You each need to respect the other's right to withdraw from a discussion when it becomes too much to deal with. If one of you says "I don't want to continue this conversation right now", the other needs to respect that and give it a break. It would help if you both could learn to say "I need some time to think about this. I'll call you back tomorrow and talk about it some more." But, in any case, don't force him to hang up on you. Respect his right to end the conversation when he wants to. Accept it gracefully.

I can tell you from my own personal experience - in which we have hung up on each other many times. When he clearly wants to end the convo and you refuse to accept that and try to force him to continue, he will feel trapped. Do you think he will love you more if you trap him? I can tell you for sure, he will not. He doesn't want to hang up on you. He's just overwhelmed by what you have said and needs time to process it - or has heard it so many times before and doesn't know what to do about it - and has nothing further to say to you. Don't let your insecurity wreck things. End the convo gracefully.


Hey Pukki, I'm not trying to beat up on you here. You can figure this out! You guys can work it out together. You just need to make little changes step by step to get there.

Good luck to you,

-AD

<small>[ January 17, 2005, 12:12 PM: Message edited by: AD ]</small>

Thank you all for the information - everything is helping - I can't respond to the questions right now cause I have a HUGE confusing unreal unimaginable issue. I used the suggestions this morning and we got along perfectly. He was coming over tonight, cooking, and we were going to go over the bills - nothing else. Now a little background - yesterday I called his friend who happens to be his foreman on this job - I asked him if he would like to go to the comedy club for my bday (30) - I have a free pass for 10. He said yes! I then asked how he and his wife were doing - off and on - he told me they were friends and going to eat, etc. but not together. This shocked me since the last I heard from H was that they were together. If I knew they weren't I wouldn't have asked. He then talked about their relationship and told me that he hopes H & I work this out - apparently a LIE. He told me that H could take any time off that he needed except during the shutdown (3rd week of Feb) - WELL - I felt like I was lied to since H told me that he could NOT take any time off - so I asked him. I felt I did not attack - he said I did - I only wanted him to know that if he did not want to take time off - he did not have to lie (shouldn't have used that word - didn't mean anything by it)but simply tell me he could take time off but didn't want to so that he could get OT and finish paying off the bills. H furious - told me I am digging for info - wasn't - it all started with asking Mike how they were. We promised to be honest with each other and I fel H wasn't - perhaps he was. Mike then called me back later that night and said that he spoke to Ernie (H's single friend) and that he said James did not know if he wanted to be with me, etc and began bad mouthing Ernie. Saying he was a womanizer, dated an 18 year old and he fought with Ernnie over that since he has a 18 year old daughter, etc. asked if I knew where Ernie lived - I told him I had been there but hadn't recently and didn't remember - left it at that - did not probe further - did not ask. He told me I should follow H - told him I couldn't do that. He told me he would tell H that I was not to call him, blah BUT that I should call him cause we should work it out - I wasn't going to. I only wanted the comedy club to be a surpise for H since I know that he likes to do that with friends - I told Mike that but called James anyway to tell him what Mike said and that he didn't have to tell me he couldn't take off.

SOOO the juicy part - I talked to H and H told me that Mike told him that I asked where Ernie lived, etc. - not sure all that I was to have asked about BUT I am FURIOUS that this guy would lie! I know Mike - we have gone to the Turtle Club together - had fun. H will not believe me - OK I've done it in the past but this was going to be different - I was going to surprise him and we were going to enjoy time together. Has this happened to anyone? I am CONFUSED - why would he do this? I told H that he told me that Ernie told him that he did not know if he wanted marriage - he says he didn't say that - I believe him - why would Mike say that? Why would he lie to H? This is a horrible setback and I cannot convince H that I am telling the truth. I told him that I will get on 3 way and will not nor ever let Mike know he was on the phone and say "You talked to James - I am confused over what he is saying. I think he is making up stuff so that he doesn't have to be with me (these are true thoughts cause I can't believe someone would do this). It's over cause I do not have to deal with stuff like this. Why would he make up that you told him that junk? I'm done and I am not telling him that I talked to you - it would make it worse." NOW what if this jerk lies to me on the phone - don't see it happening but what if he does - that reinforces H's belief. He lied to H so what makes me think he wouldn't lie on the phone to me. THEN my imagination runs wild thinking that H is trying to set me up by doing this BUT that is my imagination. He told me that he doesn't want to do that but that is the ONLY way to make him believe me. I cried cause I am so mad so pissed off - it takes everything I have not to call that )(*&#*^!^*&^$_(*&$A0 and tell him what I think. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> then i get confused again <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> and I cry cause <img border="0" alt="[Teary]" title="" src="graemlins/teary.gif" /> this makes no *&&^^%( sense. NONE. H said I should never have called him BUT I don't agree - he only feels that way cause of what happened - he said I was being *(&*&^& nosey and sticking my I(Y^YT nose in where it doesn't belong - he is saying this in relation to asking Mike how he and his wife are doing. If I knew they weren't together I wouldn't have asked! It is being nice - we do it at work. He told me not to call him - that hurts cause I know I didn't do what this (&Y*&T^& is saying I did. It's just amazing - freakin amazing. Has this happened to anyone? It is unreal - doesn't make sense.

So - I yelled at him to just forget it. He hung up on me and said You said so - what? He yells things he doesn't mean all the time - I shouldn't have - I again let my emotions get away but it was hard to control in the face of this craziness. He left my house - I wasn't home yet. He wouldn't answer the phone - I sent him an IM - he told me he would not answer because I am vindictive - what? I am not doing that. He finally answered and will not believe me - so I left him with a please think about calling him cause that is the only way for me to prove I am not lying to you.

SO - what the hell do I do now? I am not going to call him but I need him to believe me - this is a real problem.

AD - this morning - when the world was happy - I read your first post to my husband - he said you make perfect sense. I asked him why he can't tell me these things - he said cause I do not listen. I do - or I try - but he also does not communicate. I'm going to kick back and live in misery for awhile - it sucks to pay for something that I did not do - I can only sound like a 13 year old and say It isn't fair.

Pooki,

I'm glad my post was in some way helpful.

As for your current situation, I'm sorry, but I was unable to follow what happened. Your post confused me. I did get that there was some kind of misunderstanding about something between you, your H and his boss. Exactly what the issues are is not clear to me.

Sorry.

In any case, it sounds like you need to settle down and leave things alone for a while - calm yourself and let your H calm down.

Beyond that, I don't know what to say.

-AD

<small>[ January 17, 2005, 07:02 PM: Message edited by: AD ]</small>

Sorry - I was really ticked off. I am not going to call him. My husband works construction so on one job he can be a foreman while one of his friends can be the foreman on another job. So in a way it is his boss but only on this 6 month job. I spoke to Mike yesterday about surprising H - his friends were going to meet us at the comedy club but when I felt he lied to me - i asked him about it - I told him that he doesn't have to lie to me - just be open and say I can do this (take off time) but I do not want to. That is acceptable to me. Maybe he feared I would ask him to take off time - just be honest. Anyway - after asking how Mike and his wife were doing he started to go into H & my separation - i was shocked since H said he has not told anyone. Anyway to make it short - H says that Mike told him today that I was asking questions - questions that I did not ask - why would he lie? Why would he tell H that I was asking questions? He told him I asked where Ernie lived - I didn't - who knows what else he is lying about. H only told me that and that I asked who the other James was. I didn't - I said whoever the other James is - I don't want him there. So this guy is just lying and I can't figure out why. Doesn't make sense. After journaling I realized how very hard it is for H to think that his friend is lying – doesn’t make sense – I only know that eventually the truth always comes out. Told him I would get on 3 way and not tell Mike H is on – will never tell Mike that he was on – this is the only way H will know I am telling truth. I love to write so my imagination goes wild – thoughts of maybe Mike didn’t say those things and H is trying to not talk to me – I can think of 101 things for anything – that is the writer in me and perhaps not one is correct. I hope that was more understandable.

Oh yea - I have a counselor appt Wed @ 1 - not soon enough - i hope this lady can fix me!

I guess I am just unique all around and no one has had this stupid type of predicament happen to them - I should never have called his friend and asked if wants to go to the comedy club and surprise him. I haven't called him or IM'd him - thank goodness I left my phone at home. It is going to take A LOT for me to get over him not believing me - that on top of every other feeling I have for him.