I am 41 - H is 48. We met in June, engaged in July and married in early Sept. 19 years ago. Mistake #1 - I did not really know him. Shortly after marriage - Dec - we tried to buy a house - and couldn't qualify - they said husband had bad credit. Husband had said he had associate degree - didnt. I was in school at the time and schooling was important to me. Husband said he made so much money. He didn't. Would suppose to be out on sales calls - and just come home. etc., etc, etc., Nothing carnal - Anyway, from the beginning I wondered what have I done. I don't love this person. 5 kids (18, 17, 15, 13, 9) later I am still saying I don't love this person. He keeps saying he cannot make up for the past, but through the years there have been many incidents which have made me loose faith, trust, respect in him. He would bring things home from work that were not his to take, he would accept church callings and not do them, he would be dishonest on his time cards, hide things he purchased. Again nothing deadly. I have told him from the beginning this marriage is not right. We can go months and not talk to each other. We tried counseling our first year that did not work. 11 years ago, after again going to him and telling him we had problems and him keep telling me I was the problem, I had an affair - short lived - I initiated to show him I could love (ha) someone. Of course this still comes up. 8 years ago we went to a great MC - I told him I do not love this person and do not know how to change how I feel and of course husband gave his side of high expectation wife, never, happy, had affair. Anyway MC gave us steps to do. During this husband bought a horse and lied to me about the purchase. Said it was a trade and he paid $2500 for it. I quit counseling and everything else. Sex has always been sparce. Wake me up at 3 in the morning, no kissing, talking, etc. Just sex. We have remained civil. A couple of years ago he was laid off his job of 14 years. I have always worked throughout my marriage. Years ago, I worked graveyard. Would travel in the snow to work at 10 at night. He never called to check on me. He said I should have given him the number if I wanted him to call. He stayed on unemployment until that ran out. Would not do anything around the house. Got a job and was laid off that after 4 months. I work for a fortune 500 co and have a very good job. Another complaint of his I am a workaholic - true statement. He won't take the kids to dance because he doesn't have gas money - yet he goes to the arena with his horses. His main pation is horses - and he maintains 3. He will charge $300 of hay on his cc but can't do anything for his kids. He is not a bad person - just nothing there. He says homework is not his thing. Wish I could say that - with 5 kids the reports and reading time have to be done. He says dance is not his thing. Like I am the one out there dancing. I have great kids 4 boys and a girl. They have competed at the Jr. Olympics level. I swear my one son with ADD has remained successful because of his accomplishments in dance - they clog and hip-hop. He sees he may struggle in school but there are other things he can be very successful at. I picked up a second job when he was laid off. He said he never told me to work two jobs. I pay the bills. I moved out of the bedroom about a year ago and have slept on the couch. We have not had a conversation in years. I am mentally shut down to the point I can't stand to be around him. I told him I have seen a lawyer - and he tells me what kind of mother would do that to her children and that I am selfish and if I am not happy maybe I should leave. Most 'normal' ladies try and hold their families together instead of breaking them up. I asked why in the year I have been downstairs he never said anything - and he said I moved out of the bedroom so he is respecting my wishes. Now that I have filed for divorce he says lets go to counseling. I can't stand this guy. I have not respect for him. Again, he is not a bad person, he has no drive, motivation anything. He just exists. There is never any conversation because he is not interested in anything but horses. We have thousands of dollars in tack, training cds, equipment, coats, etc. Oh yea, earlier on he bought his horse trailer and didn't ask or inquire my thoughts - just said it was a good deal. I could probably go on and on. I guess what I am looking for is - I don't want to ruin his life. I don't even care if he pays child support. My kids are his kids and he needs to be a part of their lives. I just don't want him in mine. Oh when we were married he said he was married once before - also found out it was twice before. So now I feel like this is 3 strikes your out - he will not get remarried - so why not just exist. He now makes $10 p/hr and says he is doing the best he can. I will work 14 hour days go home to nothing done and have to start in with homeowrk, groceries, etc. I still work my two jobs. I can't keep living like this. We have enough equity we can sell the house and both get something nice. He says he is not leaving and will make me serve him papers to show the kids I threw him out. How do I do this - I am so stressed each day I get ill and cannot eat. If someone asks how I am I bawl. I just want out yet feel quilty for ruining his life.

Okay, let's reframe this. You are NOT ruining his life. His choices have directly led to the consequences he is now experiencing. If anything, you were wrong to let him freeload for so long.

Next, you are PROTECTING your five children. You cannot afford a mental breakdown right now. Serve him with papers. Most likely the kids already know exactly what is going on. My children have seen a lot and they're only 5 and 8.

Four weeks after you get him out of the house, you are going to feel so much better. I know. I had the same kind of marriage, for less time. My H. was never out of work because he was "self-employed." Imagine if your H. tried to pass the horses off as a business. He might buy and sell them, but all the profits went into more horses!

I know your situation. I know the feeling of stress and you just hate to come home. I left, take the kids with me, when I had the sudden and real urge to bash my H's head in with the frying pan I was putting away. That's when I knew for sure one of us was going to end up dead if I kept living with this man.

Have you talked with a lawyer about your options? Can you have him removed from the house? If not, do you have a place to go and take the kids?

One highlight is that if you separate, you can file for support and make your H. get a job. In my state at least, child support is based on "Potential" earning ability, not what you make now.

Have you read the concepts here? Especially look at Plan B and the Plan B letter. They might be excellent tools for you. Another similar approach is the Controlled Separation. It's laid out in a book called "Should I Stay or Should I Go? How a Controlled Separation Can Save Your Marriage."

I know you're not heavily invested in saving the marriage at this point, but these concepts are worth looking at just to explore ways to part.

Keep us informed. And HUGS. Don't fall for your H's manipulation.

Thank you for the words of support. Already 6:30am and a good blow up. NOthing like starting the day. When his alarm went off this morning, I went in and asked him for $200 he had borrowed last week and said he would repay on Monday. I also asked him for copies of the papers to one of the horses. He said he would not give me the papers and anything with the horses had to go through him. I told him (just to ruffle his feathers) I had someone at work interested in buying it. He said they could only work through him. I reminded him they are 50% mine and he asked me why I was doing this. He hopes whoever I am doing this for is worth it. I feel I am worth it. I am sick of not saying anything. Also told him to get another job this morning and he said as long as I was acting like this he was not going to do anything. I said acting like what - actually saying something. Also threw at me how I was destroying 6 lives - the 5 kids and his and he hopes whoever it is for it is worth it. What a way to start the day!!

Well, it sounds like you are keeping a sense of humor. What type of horses? Hopefully not Thoroughbreds. Although, it may be easier to sucker -- uhmen -- persuade people that a thoroughbred horse is an "investment" rather than a black hole.

You are not ruining his life. He's manipulating you.

Have you spoken to an attorney? I know you told your h. you had, but have you really? If not do so immediately, with an emphasis on protecting your financial situation.

Hey, you should see my upcoming post!

Another approach is to search for the horse papers, and at least copy them. They can't be too far away since your H. is out of work.

Do you have your own checking account? How about a safety box? Those are good things to have if you have a financially irresponsible spouse.

Greengables - I love the sucker I mean persuade comment. The horses have been our BIG source of contention for years and years. He would lie about purchases, or purchases $300 training videos when we didn't have the money. He is the only one that rides (5 kids - not a one even feeds them) He bought his horse trailer and didn't care on my view. We were in the middle of counseling where I had told the counselor "I don't love this person, I don't respect this person, I don't trust this person." Counselor says,H - in order to make this work you have to be 150% honest with her. Can you do that. The reply from H - yes no problem. Well come to find out during counseling he bought another horse and lied that it was a trade. 2 months of lies me asking "why does someone trade one horse for another, etc." I quit counseling and totally shut down my emotions at that point. That was 8 years ago. We have seperate checking, take seperate vacations, etc. Yes I have actually signed the divorce papers - I just need to serve them. The lawyer is waiting for my call. H - says he has the horses for therapy since I am not there. I work 2 jobs and run and support 5 kids activities, dance, etc. Been out of the room a year and he has NEVER come to see why I left. I cannot even think of the last conversation other than arguing. So, do you just have to close your eyes and jump - will I always feel quilty. I read about these people that want their marriage to work and will do this and this and this to make it work even after bad things. I have never had this desire. Whats wrong?

<small>[ January 20, 2005, 02:49 PM: Message edited by: ????? ]</small>

What's wrong? Probably only that your lovebank is on negative and has been for years.

It appears as your marriage has been over long ago. From what you have written, you are more like roommates, not even friends, just roommates. Now you are just taking the appropriate steps to void the "roommate contract". You no longer want to be his roommate.

Just make sure you protect yourself and your children finically. Also take time to care for yourself, if its only 10 to 20 minutes a day, make sure you take time to relax and collect your thoughts. This will help, especially if he starts manipulating you or the children, you will need the energy to deal with that and also help your children deal with that.

?

I saw your post on EN and wasn't sure if you are checking more here or on EN so I'll copy and paste on both...

Since you brought up your health and how your marriage is making you sick, I would like for you to explore a different reason you may be getting sick...

Have you considered it's because you are spending all your time trying to fix your spouse when the only person that you can fix is you and your not doing it? Have you considered your husband isn't the one making you miserable but you are doing it to yourself?

I did this too when my spouse drank too much. I started going to al-anon and it changed my life. Al-anon taught me to focus on me and changing me. I make myself happy, not my spouse. I was the one making myself miserable, not my spouse.

I think right now you should try to focus on getting counseling for you and the kids and to make yourself a better, healthier, happier person. I think you need to start exploring your own mistakes for awhile and quit focusing on your husbands. I see this pattern of mistake after mistake from you. It started out marrying a man you didn't know, then continued to stay with him and without fixing the problems, you have baby after baby. Which I know now that you have them, you wouldn't trade them for anything in the world, and I wouldn't trade my kids either. It does not change the fact though that you contnue to dig yourself in deeper. Why is that?

I'd suggest, stop trying to fix him, start fixing yourself, if you don't, you will just continue to make mistakes once he's out of your life. Just like Al-anon taught me, if I didn't fix myself, even if I got my spouse out of my life, I'd probably turn right around and marry another disfunctional person.

Good luck with making your life better,

Anna

<small>[ January 21, 2005, 08:27 AM: Message edited by: Anna2000 ]</small>