How about we all think happy thoughts and tell what we are grateful for. You know it's hard to think about that when you are down and out.

I am so grateful for my little boy, 9 months old, such a joy, so happy, so in love with life, lights up a room. I am grateful for my business and that I had the financial means to leave my husband, set up an apartment, buy furniture and make a fresh start, even if it's a humble fresh start. I'm grateful for my mother who's had to listen to me almost every day since I left my husband in a crisis right before Christmas. I'm grateful for my best friend, who's listened to me go on and on for years about this, never judging me for staying. Helping me leave. I'm grateful that it's almost spring, a time of health and energy. I'm going to eat right, lose a little weight and try to think positively. There has to be a better life out there...

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by horsey:
<strong> How about we all think happy thoughts and tell what we are grateful for. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I am grateful for my girlfriends - and to have found out how MANY of them I really do have. I feel blessed. After all, as someone recently told me, men come and go but girlfriends are forever!

I have been emailing some old girlfriends, one from college, had an abusive husband, managed to go to counseling and fix it. She has her perspective, has emailed me back immediately every time I've emailed her in my crisis this month. She's been there. I moved her out to my state once a decade ago as this man hurt her. By tough love he woke up and saved his marriage, HE woke up and decided no more. Another friend has listened to me hours and hours and hours. Yes, good girlfriends are for life. Babies are for life. Men come, men go.

Have you ever analyzed your past and why you were attracted to an abusive man in the first place? Or how much of the irrational fighting was your fault?

I saw my old counselor today, one we'd seen together three years ago, my pre MB days when I was so filled with anger and resentment as I found cell call records between my husband and some young woman, porn, and he was flirting. Yes, I wasn't meeting his emotional needs but I didn't care. All I saw was red at the time, the shrink reminded me of that. No one could get through to me, I'd listen to no one. I stayed in a marriage and yelled and screamed on and on. My husband started the pushing/shoving/slapping then.

He said I grew up since, had a baby, that does it. I'm more calm, thinking more. But I still have some traits emotionally of a young girl. Something happened in my childhood he said. I think it's true, I've been moody and tempermental, something's festered there that makes me so angry at men, this goes back to before my husband. I explode verbally. But my husband did do some major things to deserve my temper, not to excuse it. However I needed to move on with my life, not stay and behave like a child as I did.

So three years later I see him with a baby and this mess on my hands. He claims I like chaos and he could be right. The drama in my life, it's normal to me. Sick, but normal. I grew up with brothers who used to really verbally trash me. Another counselor said I was trained to be married to my husband, a very critical difficult man who has anger issues towards women. And control issues, he wants to dominate, wants a submissive wife. But he chose an independent woman, like me, seemingly to bring me down.

The shrink said until he works on these issues then there can be no marriage. He has to work on them alone. My husband is a respected banker, this same shrink was impressed with his position in town back then. My husband since lost his job, the one before that. The shrink sort of saw the light, hey, maybe this clean cut "nice guy" isn't what he appears to be. True, my husband told him a bunch of bs too, of course he wanted to make himself look good even in counseling. At my expense, meaning we never did get to the real issues in our marriage back then.

Of course he wanted to know if I was divorcing or not. Shrinks don't seem to advise you, they tell you what you want to hear. If I wanted to stay together it'd be one thing, if I wanted a divorce it'd be something else. Is that fair? I have never decided on the issue of shrinks and profit. But at least this one was honest years ago, said it would be so hard to fix the marriage, encouraged me to leave instead of fight - and even warned it'd come to this. Others have not been so honest, told me things would change overnight, thought they could really make a nearly impossible situation heal no problem.

Anyways I feel better talking to him. I have guilt, I know a part of this is ME. The system says "victim" and I don't like it. I know I was a part of the cycle, I chose to stay and verbally fight too. I could have left. I'm smart, I was warned what could happen. I am no niave victim. I do want to know my part in what happened in this marriage, Idon't want to end up in a similar marriage, I don't want this hell for a life anymore. I need to learn about boundaries and work on my self esteem. Away from my husband.

Maybe I'm not ready to file a divorce this week like I thought. Just getting counseling puts me at ease, at least I'm getting professional help and advice. My husband needs to do the same. Likely, yes it's a divorce but I'd like to wait a time so that I have peace of mind and don't do it in the heat of a crisis. I don't want regrets down the road, I'd like to get the court deal over with, see if my husband is indeed taking any responsibility. There are christian counselors who say this of all times is when these men wake up, they've seen it over and over again. I've had friends who've seen it. No, not high stats, but it happens. For my peace of mind I have to give him a little benefit of the doubt.

Maybe I'll change my mind tomorrow though.

Horsey,
I don't think you really dislike yourself so much that you to intentionally married an abusive man.
Not even on a subconscious level.

Do you?
Lucy

Horsey-
I don't like the "victim" approach to this either. I'm certainly no victim. I stuck up for myself. Yes, it exacerbated the situation, but I wasn't about to let my husband, who was supposed to honor and protect me, tell me I was no good.
I let him have it. I was ugly. It antagoized him. Sometimes I still get the urge to pick at his faults- to be a mirror of himself for him-- which I felt he wanted me to be. (Good call by the psychic!)
Interestingly, I had a brother torturer too. Looking back, it was kid stuff, but as a kid, I felt really degraded and bitter.
I learned to stick up for myself from having my brother torturer. And yeah, I have a certain attitude about men, from before my husband, probably based somewhat on the experiences I had with my brother.
Exactly what the attitude is, I can't pin point it. It's like I expect men to be aware that if they scorn a woman, even come close, to be prepared for what happens next. Most women are reasonable. Most of the time. And when we aren't, we are aware of it and say sorry and make it up.
My brother torturer even did that.
I really beleive that if a man has hurt a woman, intentionally or because he's clueless, that he needs to be ready to stand his ground becasue he's going to hear it.
That said, I'm still much nicer to the men in my life than I was to my brother as a kid! I"m a reasonable person when left to being myself naturally how I am. But when I felt that my husband had it coming,and I let him have it, he didn't react the way I thought a man should. He didn't stand his ground.
He lost it completely.
So, I do'nt know if sticking up for yourself better would have done you much good.
All it really got me was the role of antagonist, and the tables turned on me. My H knew what buttons to push, and he did. It's like he wrote my lines for me. I don't know, but I was given a role that was not myself, and acted my part too well.
I became like him- which if I had to sum him up in one word, I'd say he's the embodiment and personification of what it means to be totally "unreasonable".

Sometimes I STILL want to get him back. But I can't fall into that, and honestly, he consciuosly doesn't want me to do that anymore either.
Still, sometimes, it's hard not to. UNconsciously, I think he still wants me to, or I think I'd feel free not to.
This is where I get stuck... I feel like it comes from HIM. His power for bad is stronger than my own for good.
This is what is hard is knowing we can't do that anymore-- that I cant be the role and he can't expect me to be totally nice right now either. We both totally hate what we became, but we do not feel like we can control it.
I could live with this, if I felt he was changing in the direction I really need him to.
Yes, he's decided to change. Stopped drinking, started doing yoga, is a lot calmer, doesn't react violently, but leaves if he's mad. All ofthis is good progress, and I wish I could be enough. But for me, unfortunately, the main trait about him he hasn't changed is the one I need him most to change: his self-centeredness.
Now in the midst of his lifelong change, a change he's been set on by consequences he's endured from being a jerk in our marriage, he's still so self-obsessed and He doesn't even see it!

I suppose he has to be for now, to learn about hismself and get over his defective childhood and traumas he grew up with and sucked up.
BUt I can't wait for the day he has time for me, shows an interest in me, and my life, and shows that he's paid even the slightest bit of attention to me and my tastes, likes, dislikes.
My husband, even at our best, never put himself in my care, or at my disposal. Do you know what I mean? I never felt like he was there for me on an emotional level.
If he was having a crummy day, I would sit down nearby and ask him about it. If he was having a good day, I'd sit down and let him tell me all about it until he was through. I was at his disposal.
Sure, I'd add in my own bits, but if he felt the conversation was becoming about me and my day (if it was becoming a two sided conversation) he would clam up and say something like "I guess you don't really want to know".
If I was having a crummy day, we'd talk about his day.
If I was having a good day, we talked about his day.
Sometimes, not often, he would cuddle me and listen, but usually he had a negative comment that would infuriate me and feel like such a fool for sharing anything personal.
Towards the end, he was getting better at this, but he always came back to seeing everything I tried to give him as something I was taking away.
I stopped feeding his ego a while back, and that was a big change for us.
But I needed to hear him say over and over "How are you dealing with everything? Does our past still make you mad? Are you OK?"
Since he didn't ask, I'd tell him "You know, it still really gets to me that you strangled me and could have killed me. Sometimes it really scares me that I'm here, living with someone who could have killed me."
And then he'd FREAK out. Not violently, but hte unreasonableness came back and I'd hear "We can't move on if you're just going to hold me back to what I was."
And although he was making a concerted effort, If I felt like doing something I'd better hope he was in the mood becasue there would be no way I could seduce him to do what I would have wanted. Sometimes, I could put the idea in his head, and then act like he is the one who came up wiht it later.
But I hated how manipulative that was.

I am ready for a real grown up marriage with a real grown up man. Not a phoney fake man. But an authentic person!
Not right now, mind you... but eventually, I mean!

I deserve this, and although I love him, I know he's got years and years before he can be what I need. He's got at least two to see himself clearly, I figure.
I have to divorce him and move on. There's hope for him, and I wish him well, but it won't be with me.
I just pray he values the next woman, asks her about her day, pays attention to who she really is, not the phoney role of wife. I hope he plays the music she likes from time to time, and loves her as much as he loves himself.
Although, by rights, if there is any justice in the universe, he'll love her more than he loves himself, and she will be completely unreasonable and will never be pleased no matter what he does!
<img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />
Lucy

I think I have self esteem issues, that I put up with even the verbal criticisms while dating him. I have the journals, I would complaint to friends and family yet I stayed, yet I married him. Yet it came to this. So yes, it does say what I thought of myself and likely still think of myself. On the outside I"m successful, run a business, have traveled the world. On the inside I'm a little girl insecure and untrusting. The shrink said that I'm emotionally not mature and I can't think for myself half the time. I change my mind, you'll see it here...

My husband never cared about my days either. He'd walk out the room in the middle of sentences. True, the more he scorned me the worse I got. We became "entrenched" as one counselor told me, in our fighting, the same thing over and over again. Perhaps a good shrink could have helped, we didn't find one, just a bunch of fruitcakes. True, these types of marriages make both people very ugly. The irony, my husband calls tonight, the usual, tears, look what you've done to me, he can't sleep, but hey, he's admitting he's a loser... he said it. He said it in another conversation. He's a loser at work and at home. He asked about this and that, of course he can't remember what the fight was over. You slapped me remember? YOu said it was ok remember? You said you had a right to do it remember? You said you didn't have time for your child remember? You said he was my job? You said I was a bad mom, I couldn't run a business, you ripped me apart at the worst time in my life remember? You cut me down. You slept down the hallway remember? YOu couldn't be bothered listening to me remember? You were the only one making decisions in this marriage remember? It takes two to raise a kid to be married, we had to form of communication going on remember? REALLY, it's DENIAL. Finally he said what he had to say, then I'll take the brunt of this, basically you pushed me to this, but poor me the victim... He's a 200+ pound man, you tell me how a woman can even begin to fight with a man this large, he's smashed me, pushed my head into floors, bruised me, over and over for three years. I reminded him of that. Of course he thought I was going to move right back "home." When are you coming home he said when he first called. Remember, I told you in front of the last shrink, you ever touch me again and I"ll be gone, with your child. He doesn't remember, it's all about HIM. He's right, I'm wrong so he has no reason to even remember what the fights were over or why I was upset. Oh, my gosh...

Horsey,
Who doesn't?
We all don't love ourselves as much as we should or could.
I know that probably doesn't help.

We change our minds, and are entitled to.
We do have to take care of ourselves, we owe to ourselves to be essentially happy most of the time. IT's best for our bodies, minds, and spirits to be happy.

It's a red flag that he did things that hurt your self esteem-- called you names-- and yeah, a red flag for you that you married someone who treated you poorly. It IS like saying you signed up to be a doormat.
But if you're like most women that I know, you were seeing a good man before you. You were seeing what he wanted you to see because like it or not, there is goodness in him too.
He isn't just the man who abused you, or the man who called you names and damaged you. He is also a successful breadwinner, and other things you admired about him.
That you were able to focus on the good is a positive trait. It says a lot about your goodness, and you know what, it says a lot about how you see life, and how you see yourself!

You were naiive as anyone else who has never been married before. You just weren't as lucky as you could have been.
You'll know now that name calling is a red flag, and you can use that to your advantage. You can nip it in the bud, or look elsewhere.

What does an emotional woman look like?
Here's what I think it is:
She doesn't put up with crap, she leaves a bad sitaution, she keeps her cool, she takes care of herself, and can take care of others.
She is aware that she has obligation to herself to follow her dreams and live her life the way she chooses.
But she's also always a little girl who would love a "daddy" to take care of her, swing her around and buy her big cinnamon rolls for no reason.
Too much independence is not always a good thing.

When you look in the mirror, do you like what you see? Who looks back at you?

I'm emotional, I lose my cool, I'm emotionally immature. The shrink is right about that. At some point I was a spoiled girl that didn't grow up. Yes, I saw things in my husband I admired - he was successful, came from a farm family, had good friends, loved to travel, was exciting, said the right things most of the time and seemed like a good pick despite the flaws I knew - that a part of his personality was cutting and controlling. I thought I could handle it, I hadn't been married before. I remember driving to our wedding, I had a questionare about how we'd make decisions and such since we didn't do premarital counseling, I had no clue what I was getting into. Of course he agreed we'd make decisions together if over a certain dollar amount (yeah, married the guy, I can't drive "his" cars, he buys new ones when he wants, leaves town on job interviews without discussing with me, buys investments, etc.)... true I kept our finances separate but he didn't behave like a married man and he got by with it. I didn't think I deserved more, if I did I wouldn't have married him, I wouldn't have stayed. I had three brothers trash me growing up - telling me I was a silly girl, stupid, couldn't make it in the world - at some point my mom said to stop proving to them I could ( I was a workaholic in my 20s, didn't need a man, didn't want at family and finally she saw my family was a part of this, plus I resented men). I distrusted men because of this, I had a major anger towards them, I chose to stay away. The shink asked me about that today, my husband kept coming after me even after I dumped him over and over. Ok a normal man would have left, the rest did, when I played these games to run them off. So that shows that he's insecure too, we weren't codependents, we were both basically immature said the shrink, lacking emotional and communication skills. We are like two kids together, fighting, getting back together, like children. The way my husband called tonight was like a child, crying, like a child. I stayed cool, calm, collected - YES that is how I want to be from now on. Not the pathetic woman I became in that marriage. My husband was weaker on the phone with me because i was strong. By leaving him I am getting "me" back, even if it's a broken me, it's me. And I can go to counseling to make myself stronger, but I can't under the circumstances make "us" better. Not without a lot of work. I gave him hope, lots of counseling for both of us, I signed a five month lease, I will be gone at least that long IF I go back and I didn't give him much hope. Guess the psychic is right I have to for my own sake give him the benefit of the doubt. He's good at hanging himself, I don't need to help him. When I was a journalist I'd watch actions not words, most criminals would put themselves in a corner, showing their guilt, all I had to do was listen. That's what I did tonight, was a journalist, removed emotionally, stated the facts as people on this site said to do - the facts. And I wasn't even moved by his 1/2 hour of tears. I"m still not. In the old days he'd know how to get to me with tears, because I have a heart. He took that heart away from me. He took that little girl away from me that you are talking about, I"m not sure I'll ever have that side of me again. Even the shrink said in three years since he saw me, us together, I've changed and grown up. Well, maybe I've hardened. I dont' sit in counseling crying, being a victim, I've had enough and that's that. Yes, I'll talk about it, yes I'll give him a very little benefit of the doubt, legally, protecting myself. Nope, the young woman he stomped on that loved life, was naive, cared, is mostly gone. A stronger woman is coming out of this mess. I'll reinvent my life hanging onto what I want to discarding the rest. Likely he's a part of my old self I'll discard.

Horsey-
Good job not letting him manipulate you with tears! It's cool that you had your career as a journalist to give you skills you could use.
I have skills like that too- negotiations, mostly, but for some reason, they didn't work when it came to my husband.
I wonder if I even still ahve them anymore?
I was thinking the other day that relationships were so much simpler when I was young. I didn't have expectations, and if I did, I wasn't aware of them. ANd people were so easy to forgive!
I was naiive, trusting, innocent. I could afford to have a heart too, and not have be so damn proactive in "looking out for myself" all the time. IT's like a full time job to make sure I am being treated right and happy wiht situations and getting what I deserve.
I know this is being an adult- taking responsibility for my happiness.
I hear ya about being kids. WE were playing some pretty heavy games with each other too. Looking back, neither one of us was an authentic person-- we were shells who would fight horribly -including violence- and then have passionate make-ups. The cycle of violence... ick.
We were such fakers. Ihave no idea what motivated us, especially myself. Just caught up in it, I guess-- Doing it all for the cycle, doing it all for the highs of the anger outbursts and then the highs of the make ups. The whole time some part of me would stand outside myself and ask "What the [censored] is going on here?"
My common sense was always there, telling me it was wrong, it wouldn't get better, to leave. But it's like I couyldn't listen to it for EVER, it feels.
Sometimes I really feel my husband has killed the good parts in me, but I think I'll bounce back. I know that I"ll get over this, over him, and recover. I was cheated on once, and completely devastaed by the experience. And then than man killed himself and I was devastated again.
Funny, but neither of those occassions has any place in my life anymore. I thought I'd never get over those, that I'd never love again, that I'd be marred.... but here I am, and maybe I fell for the wrong person, and maybe I am marred, but I don't feel marred. I feel like I"ve been unlucky, and like I really do know what's good for me, how to take care of myself, and what I want. I also feel like I'm strong enough to make it happen.
Why I detoured with my husband, I do'nt know. I guess I really wanted to be married, and thought I could change the course of the river in Hades we were on.
HE's essentially a good man, I think. I don't think he intentionally mislead. I think he's just as surprised as I am that he became so unstable, so insecure, such a total creep and loser.
It's funny because he might think it's me-- that I did this to him. And here I am, thinking it's him, and he did this to me!
Which one of us is right?
Well, I honestly think I am. I didn't have parents cheating on each other right in front of me, and stab each other in the back as my role models. Also, I didn't have any problems like control issues in my life before, or any violence. But H didn't ahve the violence, but he did have control issues, and problems treating women with respect ...I learn this now. The people who have known him best, no longer know him at all. They have black listed him since his arrest, but not because of the arrest.

I don't know if I can know him in the future, probably not. It's like he's from antoerh planet, or on another planet. We just don't communicate. I tell him something and he is offended, he finds the offense in everything I do, and it used to make me feel guilty. I thought I was such an awful person.
That was when I was making innocent mistakes.
Then one day I was like "IT's YOUR problem that you can't handle it." And it started there. That's when I started being the ugly wife to him, to myself, in general. I was so fed up that I'd say "It's your problem, and I am sick of you pinning it on me. Grow the h#ll up!"
And he'd feel badly, and then I'd be sorry, and then he'd bring it up again "well, you think I'm immature. what about you? You can't even ____" and I'd say "So what? Here you are, turning it all around to me again."
IT was a cycle of negative feedback. Like a loop, and it would go on so long that before I knew it, I'd be screaming to be heard, and using profanity, and calling him names and saying OI was sick of his BS, his controlling, his manipulating me. But by then it was too late because I was manipulating him as well, and I knew it, but I was only doing it to avoid a fight-- not to get my way or make him feel badly. So he'd throw that in my face- how I left out some information that he HAD to know or whatever it was that most peple consider rather tame, but to him it was as if I'd intentionally run over his cat.
I actually was the first one to become physical. So I am no victim, and i Was very immature to have done that. I had tried everything else, and was so fed up, I was at my wits end.
I guess that made the abuse more obvious. Because after I crossed the line, he felt he had the OK to do it too. Sometimes literally came after me with his comeback, choking me saying "You're the one who's manipulative. I hate you." I thought he was going to kill me.
My husband is a nurse.
Icky, huh?

Today I look at it and see him as bascially innocent in his cluelessness of himself. Like kid who doesn't realize he's tired and is acting all weird. IT's obvious to everyone the kid needs to go to bed, but he won't listen, is offended you think he's tired and not just invincible, and instead of being reasonable, he throws a temper tantrum.

I"m really sorry, Horsey.
I feel I have to say the BS from your brothers is not your fault.
Can you talk to your brothers now about how awfully they treated you? Can you tell them about your Husband and that you deserve better? Maybe, especially if they are fathers now, and have a daughter, they can be big enough to say sorry, or at least see that they were wrong? Maybe they will agree that you deserve better too.
I know what it's like to become so mad that you get stuck. I'm very glad I can talk to my brothers now- that I can see them as decent men. I wonder sometimes if I sustained any permanent damage from thir harrassing me. My brother closest in age to me used to always sexually harrass me, and it was creepy and gross, and totally inappropriate of him to tell me "You should go out with BUd. He wants to show you a good time!" when I was 12, and Bud was his ugly disgusting friend who was 17.
I mean, who did he think he was? mY pimp?
Even thinking about that now upsets me and I want to remind him he used to be that way! BUt he married young, and had a daughter right away, and he treats her like she's a good girl...and guess what? She is. I love my neice, and think she's got a lot going for her because she knows she isn't perfect, but she's confident. She wants to be a doctor, a wife, and mother.
Wish he had seen me as a good girl too, because I was.

I really admire your learning here about yourself.
Your posts yesterday and this last one I think are really important.
Keep postin'
Lucy

Hi guys!
Not terribly sure how to start. My H left me with one s who is 2. He's in the military and threatnens seperation and divorce with no paperwork generated to back it up... has tried to put me out of the home and if he could have his way, I would be giving up custody and moving out of my three year old home and living him on his terms which only include GEt Out! No reason behind this-just changed his mind about being married... how's that for a twist. He's goin by any means necessary. Any advice or suggestions?
1 HW w/c

Hi guys!
Not terribly sure how to start. My H left me with one s who is 2. He's in the military and threatnens seperation and divorce with no paperwork generated to back it up... has tried to put me out of the home and if he could have his way, I would be giving up custody and moving out of my three year old home and living him on his terms which only include GEt Out! No reason behind this-just changed his mind about being married... how's that for a twist. He's goin by any means necessary. Any advice or suggestions?
1 HW w/c

((((((Horsey)))))

Thinking of you, will write more tomorrow...

My husband called two nights ago, the usual guilt trip. About his mom putting money in an account for the baby's college. He forwarded an email from his brother about wanting to come visit "us", he hasn't told his family. He asked when I was moving back. I said I signed a six month lease, the baby and I need peace right now, my dad is dying and I can't take care of a baby in a home with such anger and fighting. There'll be no more fighting then, I told him we are "entrenched" it's been this way our entire four year marriage, it won't just change. He went to a counselor, one we saw together a few times, she told him he needed to leave the house if this happens - he's been told that before. It's about power, he has to win arguments, he can't leave, he has to hurt me. He didn't see how serious it was, still doesn't. He blamed me more, said I bruised him as much as he did me throgh the years (lie, lie, yes I pushed him a few times, he was never bruised by me). I was smashed into floors, pushed into walls, slapped, spit on, grabbed and bruised over and over. Even on vacations I was pushed off of beds. This worked for him to "shut me up" as he called it. Now it really did shut me up as I moved out and could care less about talking to him much when he calls. But the guilt, I can't handle it, he knows it. I know I yelled and screamed at him and became so ugly. Yes that was my fault and I could have left him, I chose to stay and let it get to this.

I guess I need to call an attorney to get temporary custody of the baby in front of a judge. I don't want to. He wanted to see him, I told him we needed a legal arrangement first. He was unhappy about that. He wanted the baby half the time, amazing for a man who couldn't be bothered with him, called the baby my job, wouldn't give me an hour break for months, had to watch his sports and drink beer. The baby and I were in his way. Yes, I think he loves the baby, and me too, I think these issues come from his childhood, so do mine, that's why we can't get along. Maybe counseling will help us both out, even if it's not for this marriage, which I doubt it is. This marriage has brought out the worst in both of us. I'm tired.

But it's sunny, it's looking more like spring, the days are getting longer and life goes on. I'm looking at some trips to Mexico perhaps for a week this month. Maybe I need to go before we do the custody thing, woudl that be cheating? Would he know? If I did five days quickly I don't think he would, but that would be cheating. Do I need his permission to go on trips once we do custody stuff? I guess I need to ask an attorney. Wow, did the baby make me stuck? I think of the baby as mine, but hes' ours and somehow we'll have to work this out.

Horsey:
Do you have legal separation in your state? That way, you would be more clear about custody, visitation and child support. You still sound confused, Horsey. This rollercoaster you're on is keeping you from making a definite decision right now. If you think there is ANY chance at saving your M, you should review this site and start Plan A immediately.

My worry though, is that Plan A doesn't really work on abusive people.

I thought you had a RO?? If you keep talking to him, you are weakening your position. Please call a lawyer to see what you could do. You don't HAVE to do anything right now, and give it more time if that's what you need.

Lucycakes:
I feel your pain, too, girl! Abuse is NOT OUR FAULT. It is disrespectful and not acceptable. It has taken me years to figure this out. It's hard to leave the only thing you know. But there is definitely more peace out there beyond the abusive relationship. There was a thread quite a while ago about abuse...basically the gist is that WE DON'T REALLY ENJOY CHAOS, we are just used to it! Peace and joy will return to our lives. It will be so hard at first.

Peaches:
Welcome to our little group here! I'm so sorry you are in this situation, darling. Will he go to counseling or talk about the marriage at all? I hate to say it, but this smells like an affair...any chances of that? Men usually don't just stop wanting to be married without some reason. Have you read up on this site about emotional needs and lovebusters? I found this very enlightening. Let us know what you think. Keep posting, we are here for you!

The counselor today said I am so used to abuse that for me to get into another relationship will be hard. Even if it's a normal guy I might go off on him, or see the slightest thing as abuse and run. He said the world is foggy to me, I grew up with brothers that constantly criticised me so I'm conditioned to think this is normal, I don't run from abuse like a normal person would. Anyone would have divorced my husband the first year of marriage, the shrink told me that back then. This is the one we went to together three years ago, about a year into our marriage. He said then it would come to this, one day I'd call the cops on him, I'd have enough then my life would really be a mess. He tried to get me to leave quietly back then. I was strong, he said I was too strong, tried to hold onto something, perhaps my own will to want to keep my marriage that was nearly impossible with a man who wouldn't go deep enough for counseling. I never wanted to hear that there was a reason I ended up with someone abusive, that meant I was weak, he saw that in me. That I have a hard time making decisions, I have a big heard, I have a Christian background andI believe in people - too much said the shrink. I don't just give up on people like others would, I hang on to bad situations like I did this marriage.

So he put the fear of God in me, if I help my husband get off as I have guilt that I provoked him, either through the DA or a trial (ok I admit I still want them to lower the charges against him so I don't have the guilt that this costed him his career, and it still might even with lowered charges) that my husband could turn this on me. If I divorce him, end up with custody, which I will, there could be a bruise on the baby that he caused (the shrink thinks if he can hurt me he can the baby), he'll blame me to social services and can then try to get custody of the baby. My husband is still in denial, blames all on me, a person in denial is backed into a wall, feels trapped and tries to get out - my husband is smart, rich and can hire the best attornies. I think he's been taping the calls we've had, he's been trying to get me to admit our fighting was 50-50 on the phone, I have not as it wasn't. In this state you can record calls without permission and use them in court.

The counselor said everyone can see my husband for what he is except me. That he didn't fool him or the other counselor. Ok, it's true, I believe people can change, I believe the best in people, I don't believe anyone could intentionally hurt someone else like he has me, I make excuses for him... The counselor said this man ruined for me any "normal" marriage in the future that I would go into innocently, that I will be tainted by this. It's true I remember driving to our wedding, reading a marrige book, asking my husband questions about our married life to be. Everything was so be happy and normal, my husband was likely laughing at me in the back of his head - he'd been married twice and lived with a woman five years before me. He wasn't naive at all, he knew I had no clue how my life, which was mostly happy and enjoyable, would turn to hell... He made it clear from the first month of marriage, he owned the house, the cars (that I wasn't able to drive) and me. He could tell me what to do, if I didn't listen to him, he'd criticize me. I was from then on his subject. SICK isn't it?

peaches472, this is a case where you can kick him out, not him you. Yes, you can "turn over your marriage" to God, but you also have to have some control on your own too - you can pray for guidance but you have to take steps to defend you and your child, to make sure you have rights here. Your husband is trying to control you...

I'm joining the conversation even though we're not separated. I feel 100% degraded. How could I have allowed myself to be treated this way? The MB program didn't work. He said he wanted to follow it but didn't. Rollercoaster ride for one entire year. Now we are in joint session.

My H has been physically abusive towards me, and he had an affair, but in October he pushed our 10 year old daughter up against a wall. Now he has decided to go to therapy. I am concerned about what will happen when she acts like a teenager.
Cherished

((((CHERISHED))))

It's not like any of us really allowed it... Abusive partners have an incredible amount of charisma that keeps us there in between "episodes". We always think that they will change. Fogman is a master manipulator, no one would ever believe he was capable of such harm to me and the kids.

It sounds good that he is at least willing to get counseling, but it should be IC and directed at anger management. I would be very protective of your daughter, did she get hurt? Is she in counseling, too? This is not good for her to see and experience.

I was so used to being degraded that it took a long time for my friends to convince me anything was wrong. I finally took pictures of 20 bruises I got at one point. There's no denying there was something VERY wrong with that!

Sounds like your H has had a wakeup call. There may be hope yet. I would read as much as you can about domestic violence.

My therapist recommends not focusing too much energy on figuring out the WHY of it all, just focus on how you will be changing things for the better for YOU and your DAUGHTER.

<small>[ February 05, 2005, 09:42 PM: Message edited by: What AmIDoing? ]</small>