Hi, I'm not sure where to go with this, so I thought I'd try here. I'm having a difficult time and I am very new to divorce.

I went to college with 2 friends who dated for 5 years, and then they were married in 2001. Recently the wife moved out and stated that she no longer loved the husband. There was no warning, no apology, no remorse. She just said she wasn't in love with him anymore. They have no kids. She has filed for divorce and said there is no chance of reconciliation.

The tough part is that the husband is crushed. He has no explanation for this, and has no way of knowing why she chose to do this. As far as he knew, everything was perfect, and he was married to the woman of his dreams. We all thought they were the perfect couple.... so this is a shock to everyone.

Since I went to school with both of them, I have tried to lend my support on both ends, never giving advice or lecture... just listening. I try to cheer up the husband and keep his mind off things; and I try to support the wife, just by letting her know that she has to do what makes her happy.

Unfortunately, I have put myself in the middle here, and although both parties are 'ok' with me remaining friends with both... it still is very difficult. Especially when it comes time for inviting to parties or vacations or other events that we used to all do together. If any of you watch "Friends," this is very much a Ross and Rachel syndrome.

Does anyone have any experience with this or advice? I do want to remain friends with both, but I see that it's a very fine line to walk. Thanks for letting me vent.

Sorry that you are having to go through this. The problem I found with "mutual" friends was that I didn't trust anymore. I pretty much let go of any of the friends we had "together" because they would report anything I was doing directly to him (note that I do have a restraining order against him).

I would have a heart to heart with them both (separately of course). Let them know that you do care for them both, but that this journey is theirs and you do not want to interfere. Clearly let them know that you will not give the other any information about the other partner...that's a total NO NO!!

If you have a function that interests them both, let them both know, but also be upfront and tell them who will be there and if the other partner will be attending, have the courtesy to let the other know. Let the decision to attend be up to each of them.

Hope this helps...and hoping some of the oldies will have a few words to add! :-)

Yes, I do have some advice for you.

First, what I see is that your GF is confused about what love & marriage is. The honeymoon period has worn off and she no longer has the high of those "in-love" feelings. The fact that she flat refuses to work things out, I suspect there is something more there such as an affair.

What the husband should do is get out of the dumps and stop begging. pleading for her to come back. Stop telling her "I Love You" (translated I need you for my happiness). He might need to start playing hard to get. If he chases her, she will run, and run away. If he pulls away she may just follow.

Don't tell your GF that she needs to do what makes her happy. This implies she should follow her feelings. Feelings change like the weather. What she feels now, she may not feel 1 yr from now and she could make a decision she regrets. She made a commitment to love, honor, and cherish her H. Marriage is work, it just doesn't happen, they need to work on their love. If she thinks that love just happens, well, she has a disappointing life ahead of her.

Thanks Elan and Bear. I appreciate your comments. I definitely have refused to be the go-between. I've been honest and said that I won't give information about the other one.

Bear, you've described my GF perfectly. She says she no longer feels the passion with her H; and I do also, suspect an affair. She definitely seems to think that the passion is gone, and doesn't see it ever returning. I've been married to my H for the same amount of time, and I've come to realize that you're going to have ups and downs, and you have to communicate and work things out. I've also learned that I have a lot to learn.

It seems she never communicated her issues with her H, and she doesn't want him to change now, because he would be changing for the wrong reasons. But she never told him how she felt, and I don't believe he (or anyone) has the ability to read minds.

I was friends with her first, but became close to both of them when they started dating, and until now, I've been supporting her.... but maybe I should start telling her how I feel and asking her questions that might make her think. I dunno.

Thanks again for the advice.

Whoa, you might be biting off more than you can chew. You know how I pegged your GF, because that is my STBXW who just served me papers (just like her). Did she actually say "he'd change for all the wrong reasons"? Well, of course he'd change, he loves you, how is that reason wrong?

There was a big discussion about self-esteem a little while back on this board. I am guessing that your GF suffers from low self-esteem. So imagine somebody who doesn't think highly of themselves. Now imagine their partner expressing their undying love (translated neediness). What does your GF think then? She may be thinking, heck, I am not too high on myself, what's wrong with this guy that is needing such a worthless person? Code phrase: Why do you want me?

Finally, I picked up on something else; she never communicated her issues with her H. She admits this, yet is not going to give him the opportunity to work on those issues. Poor guy (he's me) didn't know something was wrong, has no idea what he did wrong, no idea what he needs to work on, all because his WW didn't just tell him. She won't. I wonder if she is afraid if she really tells him her feelings that he is going to be hurt. And she doesn't want to do that to him. If any of this is true, she needs to listen to this. She is hurting him more right now than any truth could ever hurt him. Plus, if she proceeds with a D, she will crush him, and, I suspect, regret it herself down the road.

Now, I am just giving my opinion. I know nothing of this sitch but am just taking things you said and translated them from the language of the wayward spouse so we all could understand (sometimes my fogese is not very good).

I still think it sounds like she is having an A. I just can't believe a woman can give that much time and love to a person, just to have it turn off. The whole not willing thing gets me.

Am I close on anything?

You're more than close... you pretty much nailed it.

In addition to not being "in love" anymore, her explanation was that he neglected her (chose certain things over her). When she left and told him that was one of the reasons, he said he realized that maybe he did neglect her in a few ways, but offered so many ways that he would change. He said he would "do anything she wanted." Well, she thinks that's the wrong reason to change... you should change because you want to.... not because you are forced with a negative alternative.

I agree totally with you.... I think she should be working on this marriage and not giving up because she feels she can't love him anymore. But I think this goes back to her having an affair, and she's giving him excuses.

As for the self-esteem, she always seemed like she felt good about herself, never gave any of us a reason to think she had low self-esteem, but there could be underlying reasons there that I'm not aware of that could be causing her to feel this way. And maybe she is afraid of hurting him.

But why might I be biting off more than I can chew? Do you think it's too difficult to remain friends with her, or should I be more up front about what I think? This is all so confusing to me, and I just hate seeing people I love in pain.

Also, when I said I was "supporting her" I didn't mean that I was "encouraging her" to leave. I was just listening and letting her vent. In the beginning, she was just trying to work it out (they were going to counseling and she seemed like she wanted to reconcile) and I was supporting that. But she recently stopped going to counseling and is preparing to file for D. Her and I haven't talked in depth since she decided this.

I say to watch out because if you take a stand for something and she doesn't agree, then it may cost you a friendship. My STBXW has aliented her whole family and turned them to the point that they will give ME favorable testimony in the D proceedings when it comes to our custody issue. This is her own family. If she is in an A, then she may do anything, alienate anyone to justify it.

You can't preach or push her into it. WHat you can do is stop telling her to follow her feelings or doing what makes her happy or giving her support for the sake of support. This happens on both sides. Everyone becomes a "yes" person.

Do you want to help? Tell Her H to come here. I would also suggest That he read books on divorce prevention. I highly suggest Divorce Remedy by Michelle Weiner Davis. It will help clarify lots of things. When he says the words: I'll change, I Love You, I'll Do Anything he sounds needy, desperate, unattractive. Think of it this way, when you met the guy you are with, was he grovelling on the ground to get a date, or did you see him stand out among the crowd. DO you see what I am getting at?

It's just she is feeling a lot of pressure, now she feels him leaning on her and depending on her for his happiness. He needs to work on himself.

Her claim of, he wasn't there for me. I don't know could be true could be nitpicky. Any waife if she looks hard enough is going to find fault in their H. Is that the case here?

Your role, I wouldn't get between them. I'd support her, but not unconditional, still play devil's advocate, maybe provoke some thought, ask tough questions. If she is this far gone, it is a long road back. The first step is just getting her to commit. He may be able to do that just by making her jealous, who knows.

My qualifications, none. I have just so far failed to bring my WW back. I have learned more from this failure than any success that I have ever had. I know what not to do if you are a guy.

Something has happened to change her mind. If there is no A, then he may be applying to much pressure. I don't know how you can satisfy someone when they don't tell you what they want. You end up using a shotgun approach and try everything. Very overbearing. What is he doing right now? Suggested reading for him, 5 Love Languages. Even if this doesn't work out, at least he can learn something about how R work.

Serious, I am much more knowledgeable. I look at things differently, I read people differently. Not only listening to their words, but their motives.