My DD stayed the night with my XH. On the way home today she had lots to say. Seems each time she goes down there, he spills more of our past to her...things she really doesn't need to know.

But today, she got in the car and said, "So Mom, I hear you had an affair with a pastor."

My heart, my stomach....everything...just sank. Told her I didn't want to talk about it. She did, so I gave her vague info. It was a very ugly period in my life and a man who called himself a pastor and who I had trusted for years to counsel me, took advantage of a very vulnerable situation and I wasn't strong enough in the Lord to see it and I was very, very, very, very bad and very, very, very, very, very stupid...and I did something I've regretted beyond belief but can't take back. (Just for the record...he was very good at his tricks...I wasn't the only one from church affected, and there was even a summer missionary involved at one time, I heard.)

At any rate, her comment passed along from her father was this:

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> "He doesn't have anything against you mom. He misses you. He said he will never be the person you wanted him to be for all those years. But the reason he let the DV go through was because he heard what happened with you and the pastor. That made his decision." </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">He DV me because of MY infidelity.

And if I was the one DV because of my infidelity, that makes him the innocent party, and makes HIM not me able to remarry in God's eyes.

Okay, so Plan B. How to live the next 50 years as a single, celibate woman.

I'll start by sitting her crying, I guess...

LL

LL,

Forgive me for asking, but did you tell your H about your affair while you two were married?

<small>[ February 26, 2005, 01:02 PM: Message edited by: L.I.T ]</small>

LL,

I simply can't sit idly by and wait for someone with more wisdom than I to step in here. It is so hard to watch you struggle with this remarriage issue because right now I long to see you focused on healing and self-care.

First off, I am a Christian, so I understand where you are coming from and share your desire to serve and please God.

That said, this whole "who divorced whom and who let the DV go through and who was the WS first and therefore is barred from remarriage" is tough for me to comprehend. I know you've done extensive scriptural research on divorce and remarriage, but I just don't see how God wants you to let your past actions keep you from the possibility of forging a human connection.

Mortarman has some great posts on GQII on repentant sinner vs. unrepentant sinner. You, my dear, are the most repentant sinner you could be. You have owned up to your mistakes and have sought forgiveness. More importantly, although you made a mistake, you chose to grow through it and try to make your marriage even better in spite of it.

From what I hear about your WH, I see someone who is deeply broken and doesn't even realize how broken he is. I am sorry to hear about the choices he has made. But ultimately, they are choices he continues to make. His refusal to own up to the damage he caused to your marriage and do whatever he could to forge a renewed relationship (exclusively) with you puts him in the unrepentant camp, IMHO.

I don't have a list of scriptural references to throw at you here. But please don't do this to yourself. Please don't sentence yourself to a life of missed opportunities and unexplored possibilities because you feel you need to punish yourself for something you've long since paid for (and, more importantly, was long since paid for you).

You're in my prayers - I will pray for peace and comfort and, above all, an overwhelming sense of God's love for you and acceptance of you.

Gris

P.S. Have you ever read Henri Nouwen? I have been reading him lately and have found his exploration of the "wounded healer" very compelling - it is in our brokenness that we are of most use to God.

LL,
1st, IMHO, your XH had absolutely no business talking to your DD about that! He's putting her in the middle of what should be adult business only.

2nd, you were willing to forgive his infidelity, but he's not willing to forgive yours that happenned HOW long ago and under WHAT circumstances? Not only not forgive you but blame you for being taken advantage of by someone in a position of power. You could've sued the pastor (maybe should have, or at least reported him to church authorities) and probably forced him out of the ministry!! He was grossly misusing his power. This is a serious ethical issue for anyone in a position of power - doctors, therapists, and clergy especially, as well as bosses, supervisors, etc.

You've taken more than your share of responsibility for this situation. I don't expect your DD to understand that, but YOU need to understand that. It would be nice if XH did, too. Do you have a pastor or religious counselor you can talk to about this? You don't need to make yourself a martyr because someone in a position of power took advantage of you and your XH doesn't understand. You've obviously learned your lesson from this already!

No, I did not. There are two things my XH doesn't know and that was one of them. The other was that the person who I had the 24-hr PA with back in 1990 who he did know about showed back up and we were both mental basket cases and we ended up repeating the same mistake again. Very, very, very low period in my life when I thought I was all alone and that I was the lowest life form known to man. I have come a long way since that, and my priorities and my commitment to the Lord are totally different, but I can't get past that point it seems.

Why I didn't tell him: I was afraid. I didn't want out of our marriage. I was seeing the pastor for counseling because I was in an alcoholic marriage and was having so much difficulty with it--because I believed my H didn't love me, and I wanted so badly for him to want to be there for me, and I was crying out for help--from anyone--to fix my marriage for me.

Instead, I made a total disaster of it because of my fear and my lack of belief in myself and in God to fix things.

And because my XH was very teetery in his faith, and he was going to church because he liked this pastor and felt he identified with him (probably because the guy shouldn't have been a pastor, but he was very good at what he did), I was afraid that if I told him, not only would I lose him, but that he would turn totally away from God and away from the church.

So I told no one except for my new pastor (because at the time the issue happened, my old pastor had just left our church for another church). No one else knew until I told a woman I thought was my friend, after XH moved out last spring. And she, in turn, told him.

So it has given him a great opportunity to get out of the marriage and to justify that it is okay to be with the OW and to marry her.

And I have totally trashed my life.

Right now, I want to go dip my face in acid or something to totally screw it up and make me so ugly that no one can stand to look at me. Because it's how I feel, and if I did that, at least I'd know there would be no reason to ever hope for a Christian marriage again. I'd be forced to face up to living alone forever.

I hate myself. I hate myself really really bad. I want to follow God's rules because I know if I don't, he won't bless me and could make things very hard for me, but it is so hard to face that my one dream in life--having a Christian marriage and knowing that there was someone there who was there for me, who loved me and wanted to be with me, and who I could share my life with--has no business ever being a reality.

I'm struggling because I keep wanting to be angry at God for his rule. But in fact, it's me I have to be angry at, because I screwed up. It is me who has to pay for my mistake.

LL

And why did XH feel he had to tell my daughter???

I feel so dirty and so creepy again. Hard to try and show her I'm different, or to be a credible parent, when she knows this about me.

And I'm sure she'll tell my son when she has the chance. And then she's open--she may tell my mom, too.

I can't get it to go away--ever!

LL

LL, I'm really glad you're able to talk about this here. This secret has been eating you alive from the inside, poisoning your soul. In Al-Anon we say, "You're only as sick as your secrets." Speaking it aloud is the start of your healing. Hopefully, you will realize no one is condemning you but you. This is what the Al-Anon 5th step (Admitted to God, to ourselves, and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs) is all about.

It was selfish and destructive for your XH to tell your DD about this. He's justifying his own behavior by trying to bring you down to his level. He feels the need to do this because of his own self-hatred (which is at the core of every alcoholic), not, as he says, because of your overly high standards. Not taking responsibility for his own behavior is part of his disease. Taking responsibility for his behavior is part of yours.

Your DD has enough problems already. She doesn't need all this personal information about her parents. She needs you to be strong for her.

LL,

First, let me say that your XH has absolutely NO business telling this to your DD. It is disgusting that he did so.

Second, his desire to use your previous infidelity to justify the D is completely unwarranted.

Like LetSTry, I agree that these secrets have been eating you from the inside out. I also believe that they might have contributed to your feeling 'unworthy' of healthy love. I imagine that you have quite a bit of self-loathing for those events.....no matter how the situation is spun.

And regardless of the past, you deserve a healthy love. Period. You are worth that. And if you believe it, your daughter will see that in your spirit.

______________________________________________________

Now here's my issue. I actually triggered a little when I saw your post. I have brought my question up on GQII, but perhaps I could dialogue here with you and understand a little better............that is, only if you are willing.

I understand your hesitancy to tell your H about the previous infidelities....I faced the same fear when I confessed to my H.

But I am having trouble understanding how you could have wanted or asked for complete and total honesty from him if you were not able to give that yourself.

Please understand I mean no harm by this dialogue. Only a better understanding.

I also know that you are going through a really tough time, and will understand if you tell me simply to 'bug off'......and I will gladly respect your wishes.

But something tells me that perhaps if we could discuss this, it might help both of us.....I'm sure I could be wrong <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />

LL,

I'm with Gris on this. This is an issue I started dealing with at age 23. I never cheated on the man I was married to; he cheated im me. But in the same line, I didn't believe it was okay for me to remarry. I took on more than I could handle and it drove me straight to hell where Christ came to save us from. I put myself there - He didn't.

For years I couldn't accept myself or the forgiveness that Christ offered. I held on to my humanness and let it rule.

For 10yrs I stayed by myself, and then one day I finally gave it to the Lord and realized He hadn't put me here to be alone for the rest of my life. In Genesis God said, "It is not good for man to be alone". And that wasn't just one person He was talking about. It's not good for any of us to be alone. Only a member of the opposite sex can meet the needs we have as human beings - And that is what God made us - human beings. He knew everything we would do before He ever made us; all the mistakes we would make, everything we would have to learn, and what did He do? He made provision for us to be with Him even before we committed those sins.

Looking back in the Bible, God used people that sinned "greatly" even more than those that sinned "a little". Look at Moses, David, Saul/Paul, just to name a few.

One thing I have learned (I'm now 38) over the past years is that God loves us as His "children". Sure we mess up - He lets us learn form it. Our kids mess up, and if we're good parents, we let them learn from their mistakes too. He loves us even more than we can understand.

God gave me a poem one year to express some of it:

Love is a special term, no matter how defined
It holds a special feeling for someone from deep inside
A mother loves her children and a husband loves his wife - and yet this love is tested be the simple trials in life
The greatest love man has ever seen was on Golgotha's tree, the day Christ Jesus gave his life our spirit to set free
And yet there is a greater love we cannot understand, expressed as our creator came to live with us as man
And of the Holy Father, though knowing what was near, took time to make mankind because He wanted us to care -
For Him and for each other, in such a special way that we could live in harmony through each and every day
And so He sent The Word, in writing and in flesh, to teach us how to live this way and also to refresh our souls and our spirits as in sorrow we do grieve, until the day Christ Jesus comes all christians to receive
And take from worldly torment those who love and follow Him
To live with Him eternally as brothers and as friends.
Jesus didn't come to the world to heal someone who didn't "need" it, He came for the sick and the afflicted. That pretty well describes my life from day one.
Even hanging on the cross was a murderer, right beside Him and he asked Him to forgive. Jesus told him that that day he would be with Him in paradise. Our sins are no greater than that.
When we realize what we've done wrong and go about straightening up our lives because we love Him, we are showing our repentance for our wrong doing and God forgets our sins and puts them as far away as the east is from the west.
Please, don't let the devil trick you with his mind games. The feeling of "GUILT" comes from the devil, not God. God only sends conviction, and with that comes a feeling of sadness, and a desire to do better - for Him.

Dear Father, my God as I lay here at night I wonder how long this will last
The pain and the torment I suffer in life that occur from mistakes in my past
It seems I will never find true rest and peace from these things till the day that I die
Yet I realize these things are quite simply a test that I face and that satan doth lie
To me and my brethren in all walks of life
as we strive to do that which is right
Satan lies and he steals every joy that he can
when we fail to see him in true light
So when sorrow surrounds I must learn to rejoice
and thus satan will see he's not won
For the victory was our many easters ago
The day is was won by Your Son!

God doesn't hang onto our mistakes, we do. He puts them away - we dig them back up. When we do we're letting the devil get his way. He will try to make a christian miserable to the point that they cannot be productive for God. That is one of his goals. Don't give him that pleasure. You already know what you did wrong, admitted it, turned from that way of life, and are trying to do better because you love God. That makes Him happy - brings Him joy. Let Him give you back that joy and the opportunity to move on with your life and live in a way that is pleasing to Him (not pleasing to the devil). The devil wants you hanging onto that stuff so that you will be miserable. Jesus wants you to give it to Him and let Him take care of if so you can go out a live a more abundant life.

I know where you're coming from. My heart cries out to you and my tears fall because I know just how you feel. I spent years there myself and still struggle from time to time. I'm single too. But right now it's because of God's choosing, not mine. When He decides to send someone, I won't let the devil steal from me anymore. Please don't let him steal from you as many years as I let him steal from me.

You're in my prayers,
Sincerely,
Becki

LL - do you have a good counselor - not necessarily a pastor - who can help you work through all this.

Your x was wrong to tell your d.

And you did make some bad choices but you weren't in a healthy place when you made them.

Before you can make any progress, I think, you need to work on yourself. You need to accept and let go of a lot of things.

Don't worry about whether you might or might not be allowed to remarry. Worry about getting well. Healing. You are like I was for so many years - a pulpy, bloody mess. And, then, totally in no shape for dating, much less marriage.

Not only do I think you need a good counselor, I think you need a good 12-step group. Maybe CoDA.

And there is a reason I don't recommend using a pastor as your counselor. Most of them are totally unqualified to do much counseling. Totally. Furthermore, the most beaten up I ever was by a counselor was by a woman who claimed that her life's work was a counseling ministry. She undid in 1 hour what it had taken me years to deal with. So, I had extra anger to get rid of.

Unless a pastor could produce counseling credentials, like a Ph.D. in counseling, I wouldn't even consider doing significant work with them. I'd rather have a level-headed spiritually neutral counselor than a Bible-thumping abuser helping me, any day.

Yes, I go to church. I'm very active in my congregation. However, when my marriage was a mess, our minister was smart enough to know my needs went beyond anything he needed to handle and he referred me to someone else.

Bible knowledge is not the same as skill and knowledge at handling emotional/mental illness.

LL, I've tried responding to you about this before, but I'm not sure you actually read that response. (I seem to have a tendency to post on a thread after it has already gone off everyone else's radar.)

For the best (by far) scholarly examination of what the Bible really teaches about divorce and remarriage, I highly recommend David Instone-Brewer's Divorce and Remarriage in the Bible: The Social and Literary Context. Obviously there is a significant difference of opinion on the issue among Biblical scholars and teachers, but as far as I have been able to determine, most of the opinions floating around out there aren't derived from very rigorous investigations. I was persuaded to Dr. Instone-Brewer's position because it was the only internally consistent position I could find that was based on Scripture.

You may not agree, but before you go concluding that a loving and merciful God intends to doom you to a life of misery, I hope you will at least consider looking into the matter a bit more carefully. I am concerned that deep down you want to accept your presumed fate, because in your self-hatred you believe it is what you deserve.

Not that the issue of remarriage should be your greatest concern right now.

In my opinion, there is little value to be found in thinking about remarriage unless and until (a) you can accept that God is capable (and desirous) of giving you a fulfilling life even if it does mean you remain single and celibate for the rest of your life, and (b) you can stop the self-flagellation. Without that healing and growth, you will not be able to sustain your end of a healthy marital relationship.

Meanwhile, unfortunately, your feelings about yourself have left you vulnerable to a destructive lie...

You have said that your infidelity has made your ex-husband "the innocent party" and that "it has given him a great opportunity to get out of the marriage and to justify that it is okay to be with the OW and to marry her." He has reportedly stated that this infidelity on your part is what "made his decision."

Uh-huh.

Do you really believe that?

First, no matter what you did, it does not make your husband innocent; he retains responsibility for his own transgressions. Second, there is a difference between "justification" and "rationalization."

LL, your husband had already left when he found out about this. His actions cannot be justified retroactively. And do you really think he would have come back if he hadn't found out? I don't know him, but I have a hard time believing it would have made any difference. The only thing it did is give him a convenient excuse - a pasteboard trump card (the aggrieved husband) to play in a petty little game he is playing at the expense of his own daughter. But life is not a game. Why not refuse to deal yourself into this one?

So one of your dirty little secrets has come out. That's hardly pleasant, but it doesn't change what you've done or who you are. Suppose everyone finds out. Is it really going to make those who love you stop loving you? The Bible tells us to "confess your faults one to another." (James 5:16) Why do you suppose we're supposed to do that? To provide wherewithal for others to beat us down, or perhaps to help them feel good about themselves in their own "innocence"? I don't think so. No, it's so we can "pray one for another, that you may be healed." Christian love seeks to raise up the wounded, not kick them when they're down.

God doesn't love us because we deserve to be loved. He loves us because He chose to do so. He looks at us in all our faults and all our failings, in all our weaknesses and selfishness, and He says "I love you enough to die for you, even if all you do is spit upon me in return."

Accepting responsibility for our actions is important, but to wallow in our abjectness is to reject God's grace, like a child running from her parent's embrace.

I agree 1000% with LetSTry! My xWS had been an alcoholic/addict. He was clean and sober for 3 years before we married. When he started his affair (unknown to me at the time) I thought he had started using again. All the crappy manipulative, passive-aggressive, lying behaviors were there. And they're sooo good at trying to shift blame to anyone else, to distract you from their bad behaviors. Yes, what he accused you of was true. But we all know what his intent was.

Perhaps you could point out to your daughter that,yes,you had made some very very bad choices, but went on to get help to learn how to become a better person...that you wanted to be able to stay together as a family. Maybe even mention that you wish "Daddy" had tried that before he left your family for another woman. (unless he had gone for counseling)

Another thought...maybe you could tell your daughter that you're glad she felt she could bring it up with you. Because we all make mistakes, and hurt people. It's what we do about it that matters.

I just got a chance to read all the responses. I thank you all for bothering to write back to me. I will respond more later--my eyes burn and I have a headache from crying off and on all day. I did go out with my daughter for lunch and then we did some shopping and I did what I always do when I'm upset. I spent about $200 more than I had in checking--so now more of my home repair savings is going away.

I will respond to a couple things now.

GnDP,

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> I am concerned that deep down you want to accept your presumed fate, because in your self-hatred you believe it is what you deserve.
</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't WANT to accept it, but as I think about it--you are on the money. I guess I feel it is what I deserve--being alone, because I want to please God and he says if you DV for the wrong reasons (or if you are the guilty party), you are to stay alone.

Cinderella,

Recently started seeing a therapist myself, in conjunction with the therapy (separate therapist--same office) that my daughter and I go to. This is mainly to help her and foster our relationship. So far, I like our joint therapy, but am not so keen on my individual therapy.

I started putting up my wall when my IC asked me why I stayed with my husband through all those years of drinking (trying to help me with my resentment/anger now).

Because I married him, maybe? And marriage is for better or for worse. And I loved him. She can't grasp that.

And then this last session, when I said I still feel love for him, she challenged that and asked me to define love. My definition of wanting the best for him, of caring about his wellbeing, of wanting to treat him well didn't fly. She said that's not love. I think love is that "fuzzy feeling" to her.

I'm trying to remain open to her suggestions because she's supposed to be good, but I am not comfortable sharing my past with her. It's not that I think she'll beat me up. It's that I'm not sure she respects my Christianity and my beliefs.

I really like Christian therapy better because it's the perspective I'm looking for. But my current insurance plan doesn't have any and I'm living pretty much on everything I make BEFORE including therapy. I can't afford to pay full cost. That is reality.

More later. My eyes burn too badly to write any more at this moment.

LL

Just because the therapist is convenient doesn't mean the therapist is good. Just because the therapist sort of challenges you sometimes doesn't mean the therapist isn't good.

If you continue being disatisfied after several months, look for someone else. Maybe you can talk the person doing the family therapy about a referral to someone else on your plan. I don't know about your employer, do they have an Employee Assistance Plan? They might provide better coverage than you get through your regular insurance.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by lordslady:
<strong>I want to please God and he says if you DV for the wrong reasons (or if you are the guilty party), you are to stay alone.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There are passages in the Bible which have been interpreted to say that you shouldn't divorce except under certain circumstances. There are passages which have been interpreted to say that you shouldn't marry if you divorce. However, nowhere in those controversial passages or in any others is it implied that the purpose for those "rules" is for you to "stay alone" (presumably as punishment).

The New Covenant leaves room for the recognition that there are consequences for sin - consequences such as you are now experiencing, LL, as you have to deal with your daughter's learning of your past. However, penance is not a Biblical concept.

Another thing which the Bible certainly does not support is the idea that the party who commits adultery first is forever burdened with the penalty of that sin while the other party is free to do as he or she pleases.

To put my understanding in overly simplistic terms, what I believe the Bible teaches is as follows...

If you are married, you'd better have a darned good reason to get a divorce. Marriage is serious business. There are circumstances under which divorce is justified, but even in those cases reconciliation is preferable when possible.

However, once the divorce is a done deal - for whatever reason - the slate is wiped clean. The marriage is over.

Why does this make sense?

It's because God is not in the business of maintaining files of our contracts, waiting to pounce on any violation in order to put us in our place and forever keep us there, reminding us of how badly we've screwed up. No, God is in the heart business. He wants to know where our hearts are right now. That's what matters.

Love and faithfulness are elements that God desires to grow in us. If we are cultivating those qualities, divorce is going to be the last thing we want. We will not seek it except as an unwanted last resort. That, I believe, is the principle behind the Biblical teachings. However, once outside the marriage covenant, the qualities of godliness must be cultivated according to those different circumstances.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"><strong>I really like Christian therapy better because it's the perspective I'm looking for. But my current insurance plan doesn't have any and I'm living pretty much on everything I make BEFORE including therapy. I can't afford to pay full cost. That is reality.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There are Christian therapists who do not advertise as such. The therapist I used to see was covered under my insurance, being on staff at one of the area's largest medical facilities. I never outright asked him if he was a Christian (I saw no point, since we would first have had to have a discussion on what we each understood that to mean). However, I talked to him as if he understood my Christian beliefs, and he responded as if he understood and respected them. We dealt with my issues within a Christian framework, and I was satisfied with the results.

LL, on the surface, it doesn't sound as if your current therapist is able to do that. I really think it would be worth checking into alternatives - ones that are covered under your insurance.

No EAP at my new job that I started on Monday. Had EAP at my old job, but only used it like 3 times in 20 years. My new job may have a slightly less restrictive mental health plan, but the copays are also higher, so I'll have to limit my therapy to make sure there is always $ for my daughter's. Her situation is more important.

In my case, I'm not sure therapy is the answer anyway. I tend to be somewhat disbelieving and cynical about therapy to "work through one's past". I'm okay with my daughter's therapy that I participate in only because we're working on the here-and-now, and learning ways to deal with her ADHD and coexist peacefully. We're not trying to get to the bottom of some long-buried issue.

I am very angry with myself today. Sometimes if it weren't for my belief that somehow Jesus is still here for me and desires that I continue on on this earth, I could entertain thoughts that I shouldn't. It's selfish to think that way--wrong method of escape.

As I sit here typing, I realize I have not one soul I can call to talk to. My sister has a family, and I won't disrupt them at 10:45pm. I'm very uncomfortable talking with my mother. We've never been close. Hmmmm... The rest of my friends are folks I worked with at the job I left last week. I never called or hung out with them after hours because they are married. Just visited at work.

And there we have it. That's the extent of my network. I could talk to my dogs, or my walls. I do talk to God (though not as often as I should, and that makes me angry, too--can't get my priorities straight). But I really want so bad to have someone who cares about me, who I could pick up the phone or ask to come over, and they'd come. Better yet, I'd like to still have my husband, except that he was rarely there when I needed him.

So I have MB. And if I don't quit spilling my guts, you guys are going to think I'm a nutcase.


LL

Jumping back to one of the earlier questions--why didn't I tell someone at the church?

While for the good of others I should have brought the issue with the pastor to the attention of someone in authority with the church or their association, how would one go about telling them?

So you say "This guy told me he'd stay and talk with me about things IF I did such-and-such."

And then you tell them that you did what he asked because you were so afraid of being abandoned by not only your husband but by the one person who has been guiding you and helping you try to keep your head on straight (or so you think) and you were so afraid of losing everything that you gave in, in hopes it would make the pain go away???

Where was faith in all that???? And what I was going through then was SO much less than what I went through over the last year. It was so stupid.

LL

<small>[ February 26, 2005, 11:25 PM: Message edited by: lordslady ]</small>

LL,

Read your post on my other thread. I understand what you are saying about revealing the truth at an appropriate time. I do have to admit, that after reading the literature, that I have wondered if confessing to my STBXH was at an appropriate time, or an appropriate thing to do.

My H is also an alcoholic and was emotionally/verbally abusive. So I understand about the time/appropriateness. But I also wonder if I had known about the timing if I would have confessed. Since reading "After the Affair," I'm not certain I would have.

Yet I realize that if I had not confessed, I would be doomed to a M that continued on an abusive path, etc.

So perhaps your D is for the best. If you did not feel it was 'safe' to disclose your transgressions, then your M obviously needed change.....right? And if you don't feel safe in your own M, then how possibly could you feel safe enough to be honest with him? And without honesty, how could you possibly have a healthy M?

I suppose what I'm getting at is...........

Maybe this is a blessing. A difficult time, a hard life lesson, a test of your resolve. But if you cannot be honest with your H, then what kind of M would you have anyway.

I truly believe there are people out there who would understand that infidelity can occur. And there are those who understand somewhat why infedelity occurs in an M. Those people have big hearts. Those people are open to seeing all aspects. Those people are willing to love and take the risk.

In your post, I get the feeling that you feel badly about your past transgressions......in spite of your justifications. Perhaps you still need to forgive yourself....I don't know.........I know I do.

But I appreciate your posting to me. I really do. I hope I did not offend you. I am trying to understand all this, and since my D will be final this week, it has brought to a head many issues which I feel I have not adequately dealt with.

Thank you again. I have followed your story, and I hope that you get to a point where you can be at peace with yourself.

God Bless <img border="0" title="" alt="[Embarrassed]" src="images/icons/blush.gif" />

Let me get this straight... Your H has defended his choice to abandon his family, divorce his W, pursue a relationship with a married woman, and marry her based on your being seduced by a minister from whom you sought counsel because of your husband's abuse and alcoholism?

LL, don't buy this. Your H is using an old incident to justify a decision he already made. If your daughter brings it up, just admit it, tell her it was a mistake, and you are sorry.

Don't let Satan get you down. Just be the best person you can be. And don't worry, if God waited for any of us to follow all His rules before he blesses us, none of us would ever get any blessings at all.

LL,

I've seen a lot of discussion on this theme from time to time and I usually keep my opinion to myself, but you seem so anxious about it that I'll pass on my POV.

First of all, lets talk about words and cultural practices.

Well, I guess I can't talk about both of them first.... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

OK, Words:

As we all know, the Bible was not written in English. The word in the bible that is translated as "Divorce", described a particular practice in a particular time and place. (Well, I guess cultural practices did slip in here already.) So, how well does that word (probably Greek, if you are talking New Testament here) map into our current cultural practice which we call "Divorce"?

BTW, I'm not any kind of biblical scholar or anything, just a thinking person who has read a thing or two. So, don't take what I'm saying as authoritative. Just think about it.

The thing that we call divorce did not exist in that time, so we need to be careful in applying something said about an ancient cultural practice to the current thing we call "Divorce".

(I think I said that already, but I'm not sure I was clear.)

As I understand it (with the usual caveats), in that time and place, women were not allowed to own property. Women were property (more or less). Divorce was without exception something that a man did to a woman. Children were also (more or less) property and (you guessed it) always belonged to their father. So, divorce consisted of a man telling his wife to go away - empty handed and without her children. That "God hates" <the-thing-I-just-described> is understandable.

The bible has some things to say about that practice, but is it reasonable to apply them to your divorce today (or mine)?

(It should also be noted that a man was allowed to have more than one wife at the same time.)

Think about it.

-AD

<small>[ February 27, 2005, 03:41 AM: Message edited by: AD ]</small>