OK here is the current situation - I fear it is never ending...OW is still the next door neighbor - we have nothing to do with her what so ever... Though on New Years Eve the other woman's son came over to my house with some boys in the neighborhood - for approx. 20 minutes. He has done nothing to me I think he is a nice kid but they came to see my daughter - well his mother (OW) called and left a nasty message on my answering machine - and told me in no uncertain terms that her son was not allowed anywhere near me - that if he was to come to my house again it was up to me to tell him he is not welcome in my home and if he ever comes in my home again - I would not live to see another f***ing day.. Lovely huh?? I saved it - didn't show the police because I just wanted it to be over... Anyways last weekend my ex asked my girls if they wanted to go away with him and the other woman for the weekend - I didn't say anything because neither one of them wanted to go...So last night-
My ex calls starts talking to my oldest daugher soon to be 15 - saying that they would go away in April with the other woman and her kids and her son would bring a friend a 17 year old kid - that my daughter is friends with but I really watch it because he tends to get into trouble and he really isn't someone that I want her hanging around - so she hangs up and I asked what was it all about and she said about going away and this kid would be going.. So I told her you are not going away with the OW after she called and threatened my life - well the only appealing thing to my daughter was the fact that this other kid was going to be going...
So I called up my ex and told him he was more than welcome to take the girls away but that there were not going away with someone who calls and threatens my life if I ever go near her son - for no reason - So needless to say he called me some ugly names I hung up - and yup he came over - I should have called the police but I didn't he had been drinking - started screaming at me and the kids - calling me some lovely names - and asking the kids why they hate the other woman - I told him they do not hate her and it has nothing to do with her - I just do not want them near someone who has - on more than one occassion threatened my life - drove me off of the road etc... So needless to say - my youngest was crying telling him how she felt about him going over next door and stuff and he was fighting with her - telling her she was lying and he wasn't there etc... it was really ugly...and he proceeded to leave and threw a rubbish barrel at my windshield and told the girls he was never paying a red cent for them again - child support included..
So do you think I am wrong for not letting my girls go away with someone who has threatened me if I ever go near her children - when I have done nothing to them ever??? Yet the two of them think that they can just have their way and go away with my kids - And on top of it all try to bribe a 15 year old with a 17 year old boy - to get her to go??? What would you do??? Anyone Help????

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by maw64:
<strong> So do you think I am wrong for not letting my girls go away with someone who has threatened me if I ever go near her children - when I have done nothing to them ever??? Yet the two of them think that they can just have their way and go away with my kids - And on top of it all try to bribe a 15 year old with a 17 year old boy - to get her to go??? What would you do??? Anyone Help???? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You know you're not wrong. They are both trying to intimidate you into doing what THEY want, not what's best for your kids. You are protecting your children. If I were you I"d get a restraining order against both of them. Give EVERY threatening message to the police. It took 12 messages like that for my ex to end up in jail for 30 days, but it was worth it. He learned to behave. I didn't want to be mean or vindictive, but I finally realized I had to protect myself and my children.

Have you talked to your daughter about this boy? Does she realize he has a tendency to get in trouble? Rather than forbidding her to see him, maybe you could offer to have a "movie night" for her and a few of her friends; invite him over, let them watch movies and eat popcorn in a safe environment and see how that goes. If she's not busy rebelling against you she may get the chance to see he's not the great guy she thinks he is.

I think I remember you having reasons for not moving, but in this situation I think I"d do everything possible to move away from this OW, even if it meant losing money, giving up a great house, etc. Peace of mind is so much more precious than property.

Anna - actually I have really screwed up my credit so I am right now trying to refinance and then if I get everything in order for like 6 months to a year then I will be able to probably get a new mortgage and then I will be moving - but right now I wouldn't be able to secure a new mortgage - that is why I am still there... And about the boy she knows that I don't really like him but in all honesty I don't really know him that well - so I do in fact let him come over when I am home - I have not forbid her to see him - Only I do not want her going away with her father and his wack job girlfriend - who knows if they would even watch them - they are to concerned with there own selfish feelings to care about the kids you know?? So I put my foot down - and sadly if I had called the cops I am sure he would have got arrested for drunk something or other - he was drunk and he did drive there - and he already has one drunk driving case - so the idiot in me was probably still protecting him.. uggg - so my daughters are upset and they really shouldn't have to listen to their father screaming at their mother and telling them that I manipulate them.. I am very up front and honest with them.. I told them they can go away with their dad at anytime - just I am not comfortable letting them go away with her....

First, I will never understand you staying at that house.

The rest I understand and, moreover, I agree with you.

How did you arrange his vacations with kids?
(My X has 2 weeks every summer).
Anyway, If I find that I don’t like company for my son his dad chose during these weeks, I’d say NO! and I would fight (mediation, court if needed, of course – if I have proper 'base' for a lawsuit… depends on a case, right, if in doubt - consult your lawyer)…

E.g. I know my X will one day SOON take our son (3) to a country X loves, to his friends (alcoholics) and I could never allow that happen (unless my son is 18 <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" /> ).
On the other side, I know it would mean a lot of to our son…
So, in advance I found future solution <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> - I’d go with them. Like babysitter. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Cool]" src="images/icons/cool.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by maw64:
And about the boy she knows that I don't really like him but in all honesty I don't really know him that well - so I do in fact let him come over when I am home - I have not forbid her to see him</font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I would get him to our place and - get him know very well; then, if I don't like what I see/learn - I'd forbid further meetings with my child (by not telling "I firbid' but pointing my son to the other direction when chosing his friends in his life...)

Belonging - Well I just explained above why I am still there...In hindsight I wish I had sold the very first day we split up but -- as for his custody arrangements - there are actually none set up - he has total open rights - but this has been since September of 2001 and last year alone he saw them 13 times all year - they haven't slept at his apartment since 2002 - and so far this year he has spoken to my oldest daughter twice - taken her out to lunch once - and he has seen my youngest daughter twice this year also once ice skating - once lunch with her sister - he calls once a week if that - so they really do not pay any key part in his life... It is easier to blame me as to why they dont' get along..

Just remember no matter what (no matter how wrong or horrible they act) to do what you think is the best for your kids. Think of what will help them feel good about themselfs and have a happy, healthy, normal life. You can not make your X and his new person act right, but you can always be a good unselfish role model for your child.

Maw, we were typing at the same time...
OK, now I know that too <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

We lived in a big nice house; I left everything to him just to be able to go out with my(our) son!
All I could have aford before selling the house was one bed-room appartment (for I was still paying 1/2 mortgage eventhough didn't live there anymore)... then my son and I continued living in that small place (but nice and clean <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> ) until I recovered from some debts on credit cards, (I was spending much more then him when we lived together), and now it's been 2-3 months I begun looking for a house for the two of us...
It wasn't comfortable and what I used to have in my life, but, well, I saved a lot of energy and had my own peace...

IMO, you need to set custody arrangement.
Of course it’s easier to blame you, but part of it you can avoid by setting some rules.
Your kids are big enough to decide also what they’d like… You did a great job not turning them against their dad, but unfortunately it is him doing just that…

MAW,
I know how hard it is to stop protecting him, but you have to, for yourself. YOU are the one you need to take care of. Has he protected you by going off with OW? Has he protected you from her or himself? NO. It would have been all the better to call the police when he was drunk; obviously he isn't going to change, but he will learn you mean business and won't allow him to terrorize you. Don't be a victim.

In fact, calling a domestic abuse hotline or crisis intervention center and discussing the situation might be a good idea. It will make you feel better and they may have some suggestions that will help.

Could you rent out the house and move? Know any realtors from friends, work, church, etc. that might be helpful? Don't let bad credit stand in the way, there may be more you can do than you think.

StormyDakota - I know that I haved to set a good example unfortunately in the beginning they did see a rather distraught mother most of the time and I know that was hard on them but they are good kids - they have both just made the honor roll and I am doing the best that I can...

Belonging to Nowhere - the funny thing is that I am probably the least happiest person living where I live - I don't want to live there I actually only stayed because it was what the kids wanted - and I was trying to keep some sort of order in their lives and actually if truth be told I was in denial about the other woman being the lady next door for a good year or so... So really it hasn't affected the girls except when their dad goes over there - though he thankfully hasn't gone over there a real lot but in my book if it upsets my kids then once is enough you know??? He has it in his mind that I am so upset about the two of them being together that I am poisoning the children and really I think they deserve each other - I just wish they would choose to enjoy each other in another town... And as for me not turning them against their dad - even if that was my intent - I never would have had to do anything he has done it all on his own - I actually have always wanted him to have a more active role - only he has his priorities and unfortunately they are not them and they are not little kids they know where they stand in their dads life - regardless of what he says - actions speak much louder than words... Good luck in your house hunt... And hopefully someday I will find that peace of mind that you have found....

Anna - I do have to stop letting myself be the victim but for some reason he still has the ability to have me all twisted and thinking that some how some way that this is my fault you know??? and I get confused but I am not confused when it comes to him taking my girls away with that loon - it is just not happening..And he can take me to court - I don't care - I really am not going to allow it... I told him to never come back to my house again - I didn't want to call the police and upset my daugther anymore than she already was - as it was she had a hardtime getting to sleep - it was probably a good thing we got like 15" of snow here so she could sleep in - she is actually still sleeping...Truly the other about moving is that - I cannot take my daughter out her high school she is a freshman and she is in a vocational school and she is doing great... so that hold alot in the factor of moving.. Hopefully he will just let this blow by again - and not continue on it.. I have contacted the state to have the child support attached to his pay so hopefully I will not go without that for long because he also said hewas gonna stop that... so I guess I am just gonna have to stand my ground and not allow him to take them away... because I know in my heart it is the right thing to do for them - and I am at all costs going to protect them...

Thanks!

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by maw64:
And hopefully someday I will find that peace of mind that you have found.... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">You are almost there!, just remove yourself out of their drama. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> So do you think I am wrong for not letting my girls go away with someone who has threatened me if I ever go near her children - when I have done nothing to them ever??? Yet the two of them think that they can just have their way and go away with my kids - And on top of it all try to bribe a 15 year old with a 17 year old boy - to get her to go??? What would you do??? Anyone Help???? </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I don't think you are wrong, you have to do what you think is best for your kids

Enchanted Lady and Belonging - Thank you so much... I talked to my oldest daughter a few minutes ago - and her take is that dad was probably drunk she might just call him later.. But she knows where I stand on her going away with them and the reasons behind my not wanting her to be with the other woman - at least not at this time - neither one of them are stable as far as I am concerned and that has to be my decision - he can take me to court to fight if he wants but then I will just give the proof I have and I don't think that they will not side with me. I am not keeping them from their dad just from the loon.... Now also I mean he was having a fight with me and chose to drag the girls right in the middle of it - I mean I just don't think it is right... I am gonna just consider the matter settled - they are not going away - and I am not gonna stress and I am gonna look for that peace of mind.....

MAW, hang in there! I know exactly how hard it is and how they keep twisting you around....he knows which buttons to push. If you have read my posts of the last year, I deal with the same stuff. It's just alot easier to tell you how to handle it than it is to handle it when it's my ex. That's why I suggested an abuse counselor, they are so great for helping you see the situation more clearly.

((hugs))

Anna - where does one find an abuse counselor - ?? I have had regular therapists and actually I am in between them now - my insurance that I have now doesn't leave very many options for counselors - so I am having a hard time finding one - but are there ones that actually specialize in that??? I was thinking some sort of family counseling or something???

I called Crisis Intervention Services in our area......it's the same as a domestic abuse hotline. They set me up with a women who counsels women in abuse situations. (And your ex is definitely emotionally/verbally abusive.) It never cost me anything and for awhile I was calling her almost daily. I still touch base with her now and then for a reality check; nice to know someone thinks you're not nuts. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="images/icons/smile.gif" />

Also, have you read Patricia Evans book on Verbal Abuse? It's so helpful in learning how to deal with it and not let him push your buttons. After reading it, I realized that while I always thought we were working TOGETHER for our marriage and the kids, he was only interested in having all the power in our relationship. That didn't change after the divorce papers were signed, so the advice in the book still helps me.

Maw, I don't know how you do it with the OW right next door. If my husband and his skank lived right next door to me I don't think I could stay here a day. I'd move in with my mother, grandmother, whomever. No freakin way would I stay.

(That's just me. I can't stand the skank. She chased my husband for a year and a half even after I became pregnant after 11 years of marriage. I'd like to shove her head into a meat grinder.)

You stand your ground lady. When he brings it up you give your atty. a copy of that tape where she's threatening your life for the court. It will make a difference. Trust me. I left msgs. on my husbands girlfriends machine letting her know that he was still having sex with me as well as her and they gave a copy of the tape to my husbands lawyer to use in court. So if they can use mine, they DEFINITELY can use yours.

I have just read through this entire thread with great interest because I was/am in a very similar situation.

I cannot stress this enough...If you and your XH have joint legal custody of your children and no restraining or court orders against XH or the OW, you have absolutely NO sayso as to where or with whom he takes your children!

Anna - thank you very much - I will check out that book - and hopefully I will not let him have that control over me anymore...

Tess - Thank you for your kind words - I have saved the messages and I hope to not ever have to use them - I just really wish they would just go away..

Now Mrsed. What is your situation??? I absolutley totally agree with you that I have no say - about where or with whom he takes them - but if I say NO and they don't go because I beleive it is in their best interests then I will live with those consequences. Other than the fact that I do not want them near someone who has threatened to not let me see the light of day if I go near her children and I have never once done anything to her or her children - the simple fact is that my oldest daughter does not want to go because it is her dad asking her to go and to spend time with him - she wants to go because this 17 yr. old boy will be there. So I don't feel like I am doing anything that is not in the best interest of my child. Her father called her yesterday and I guess gave her a ration of crap about how I am a b*tch and that someday he is gonna have a civilized conversation with me. and you know what maybe when and if we have a civilized conversation things might be different but right now - whether I am right or wrong - I am standing my ground - but I would love to hear your situation ...