Ok, cliff notes version of my sich.
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• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Married 10 yrs</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">WW had A 6 months ago</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I filed for D in Dec.</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">WW tells me two weeks ago she wants to try and reconcile, drops OM</font></li>
• <font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have been going with the flow, but not sure I really want to reconcile at this point.</font></li>

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">
Which brings me to the question at hand. There is a woman who I am aquantances with through work that I am really interested in asking out. I am still legally married at this point, and WW (possibly FWW, I have my suspicions) is attempting to reconcile, but for some reason want to ask this woman out. I am picturing my life without WW and kinda like that thought. Should I squash these thoughts and try and work on my M?

A big part of my reasoning is that I really suspect my FWW is not actually a FWW, but still a WW. There are some red flags I am seeing and don't know if I want to go through all that crap again.

Well, obviously, you should not act on those desires right now. Wait until you're divorced. It's tough, trust me I know. I've been separated for almost two years now.

Besides, the real question is whether you are willing to work on your marriage or not. Going out with someone else will only muddy the waters.

Six months ago is still too soon. I would wait. When I was at the time frame you are now, I was still in a fog. I wasn't thinking clearly. You may do things out of spite and you are EXTREMELY vulnerable to getting hurt again. It is funny when we are deattaching ourselves from our WS all the sudden they show us interest and want to work it out.

No one can tell you how you should feel about your W. It is what you feel you want to do? Do you still love her? In two years, do you think you can be past the A.? Did the two of you discuss why she had the affair? And if so were both parties accepting reason behind it? I cannot say no don't stay with the W because she did you wrong. My judgement or anyone else's cannot tell you to whether or not to stay in the marriage. If you can see yourself without her, is it because you are still very much angry with her? Or you just don't want to put an effort into your marriage anymore???
I mean she just ended her affair. Your judgement may not be the best right now. I know as I say to everyone who I post too, that BS go through a fog as well. Our fog is a way of masking the hurt just to get through every day life. My fog really didn't clear itself until maybe the year and half mark. The hurt just snapped and went away. I think I was fed up with being hurt and anger that it took over my life. So JMO, I would not do it until you go over every inch of your thoughts and your options to make sure you are not getting back at your wife!

Ali~

Gee, I hope I made sense!

<small>[ March 02, 2005, 07:43 PM: Message edited by: Ali88 ]</small>

Forgot to ask, are the two of you separated? Or are you both in the same house?

Ali~

I know I probably should not act on those feelings, but I have, I guess you could say, almost talked myself into wanting to go out with her. I don't know her that well, but what I do know I like.

Ali,
yes we are still living in the same house. My attorney said I should not leave as she could use it against me in court as far as abandoning the emotional needs of my children. Yes, she just ended the affai, but as I mentioned in my first post I have my suspicions that she has started back up. No proof, just some red flags starting to pop up. She has not been an open book with me which I explained to her that I would need in order to help me regain my trust in her. I think I just don't want to put any more energy or effort into my marriage anymore. I mean if I wasn't seeing these red flags, maybe, but with the feeling that she may still be seeing the OM I don't want to go through that any more. Besides there are a few issues I have with her that are really starting to stand out and I'm not sure I want to deal wiht them any longer.

BMBO

Just my opinion...

If you are focused on this "new" woman, and wanting to ask her out, your focus is not on your WW (or FWW), and so your marriage is not getting a fair chance. You may be feeling the same beginnings of a thrill that a WS feels when they first start to get close to the OP.

If you are still married (whether separated or not), it is not wise (or right, in my opinion) to ask someone else out.

Decide what you are doing with your marriage first.

LL

“””My thinking lately has been flawed quite a bit by my situation. I do take marriage seriously and am lying to myself (and you all) by saying I don't feel guilty.

I hate what my life has become.”””

This is what you posted 2 months ago after you had your affair. Does is still apply?

“””WW tells me two weeks ago she wants to try and reconcile, drops OM”””

Did you tell her about your affair? Is she wanting to reconcile with full knowledge or through clouded vision?

“””I am picturing my life without WW and kinda like that thought. Should I squash these thoughts and try and work on my M?”””

The grass is always greener on the other side and the more you look at it, dream about it, and pursue it the greener it will get. That is until you get there and find out it was simply a mirage. I tell you what, if you truly want and believe a divorce is in the best interest of you, your wife, and your children the get a divorce, heal, and then start dating. That is, unless you enjoy going through this crap over and over again. Sure there are exceptions but by in large on the whole what you are doing has been tried and tested and most of the time it just plain doesn’t work. I

”””I know I probably should not act on those feelings, but I have, I guess you could say, almost talked myself into wanting to go out with her.”””

Can you read what you just typed. I know I shouldn’t but I’m week and I couldn’t help myself. If you know what the right thing to do is, then why not do it? What kind of example are your own words setting for your children?

“””I think I just don't want to put any more energy or effort into my marriage anymore.”””

So get it done and move on with pride and dignity. But do it with your eyes wide open and not in the fog.

“””Besides there are a few issues I have with her that are really starting to stand out and I'm not sure I want to deal with them any longer.”””

And as long as you are focusing on other people, you will see more and more, many of which are of your own making.

Ditto LordsLady's Comments...

I'd say if you think or she's trying to make you think she's now a FWW - and you still have love in your heart for her - MAKE HER WALK THE TALK...

Get going w/the MB program - Both do a Plan A and read all the stuff - give recovery a good shot & see what happens.

If you still have love in your heart - you owe it to yourself, FWW, and the M to grow your M from this experience.

If this lady does go out w/you knowing that your M - doesn't matter that your W was a WW - is this the way your want to start out a new R?Heck you just filed for D - I realize you are lonely so many of us on here are - but like another poster said on a different topic - Just because you CAN-CAN doesn't mean you SHOULD-SHOULD...(I like that)..

Hugs

Oooooo he is soo much of a fog!

Get the proof that she is still seeing the OM! Then act on that. If you seriously want to end the marriage, then you do what ever it takes. Like I said, if that is what you feel for your wife then no one can make you stay in the marriage.
But I have to agree, the grass is always greener on the other side. I believe you wanting to ask this women out is a bandage for all the pain that you are feeling. It will just confuse you more and probably make you "hate" your wife. If you were in a different place and you exhausted all resources then I would think differently. Focus now on your feelings and deal with them in the right manner.

It takes time. You cannot heal over night. It has taken me close to two years to figure out things.

Ali~

bmbo,

Don't do it!

If you end up building a new relationship, do you want to lay the foundation on sand, or on stone?

We have a friend who started dating a guy who was "going through a divorse" - and guess what? She was preg before he actually got the D - and now he has 60 day wait before he can remarry (in our state) - and there goes all the nice wedding, bridal shower, baby shower etc. etc. - down the drain. She's too ashamed to go to church, avoids all her friends. They will marry - and maybe things will be OK in the long run, but the long and short of it is that he made her suffer a lot of losses just because he didn't wait to get D'ed before he started dating.

If you divorce and eventually remarry, you want to give your new wife the pleasure of enjoying a clean slate. Be patient.

-AD

<small>[ March 04, 2005, 10:13 AM: Message edited by: AD ]</small>

Ok, I knew I would get some 2x4's and deservedly so. Anyway, had a talk with STBXW on Fri. and basically told her to call up OM because I don't think we will ever be happy together. Not sure if she took me up on that but think she did. I think we are done and I am okay with that. I feel sad in a way, because I wish we could have worked it out since I didn't get married to get divorced. In a way I feel like my STBXW and I could have/should have tried harder, but she just wasn't putting in the effort and I can't get myself to do that anymore either. Her A just took the love I have for her as a wife right out of me. I do care about her as a person, but not as a wife. There are some issues we have with each other that I just don't have the desire to live with hers any longer as I don't see her changing nor really wanting to change. She has made no effort thus far.

Go ahead and beat me up some more, I can take it. That is why I post here - for advice. I understand I should wait until I am officially divorced to start pursuing other relationships and that makes sense. We'll see. I do have another question however, when I do start dating again. When is it appropriate to tell the other person that you are D with children? Is it appropriate on the first date? Prior to even asking out? Just curious what your thoughts are on this.

BMBO

Oh yeah, what's the BS fog? What does it entail? Just curious if I am in it.

BMBO

(((BMBO)))

How was your weekend?

“””Go ahead and beat me up some more, I can take it.”””

I ain’t seen nobody beat you up too much…. However, some around here call things for what they are and many have been through where you’re heading and offer advice based on their mistakes. And some of us are hell bent on making our own path rather than accepting that there is one already made. But I was also thinking, a lot has been offered but I can’t find anything about your real situation. Could you take a moment to give us a brief run down of where you are? Has the divorce been filed? Are you still living together (I read something about a Valentine’s Day hearing)? Did you ever tell her about your affair? I noticed some thread about drinking, is that under control? How old are you children? What are your custody thoughts?

“””I don't think we will ever be happy together.”””

You may be right, we all have our “point of no return”.

“””In a way I feel like my STBXW and I could have/should have tried harder, but she just wasn't putting in the effort and I can't get myself to do that anymore either.”””

I don’t know of all the specifics just what I’ve read on the boards but it sounds like a two-way street to me. Maybe it is done, maybe it is over, then again maybe you both could bring your heads out of the fog and save a family which can’t happen while either of you is seeing or desiring others.

“””Her A just took the love I have for her as a wife right out of me.”””

Again, I ask, does she know about your affair? I’m only asking for a simple reason because that may be an item that will bring you both to an equal playing field. It no longer allows you to hold it above her which could be standing in the way of recovery.

“””That is why I post here - for advice. I understand I should wait until I am officially divorced to start pursuing other relationships and that makes sense. We'll see.”””

Actually there are a couple different schools of thought on this and everyone is different. A good guideline is wait 1 year for every 5 years you were married. Again, not knowing all the dynamics, but I can tell you one thing that hasn’t been mentioned yet and that is the kids. They require time to grieve. To them, this is a huge loss. Don’t know your children’s ages, but I do know that my children required ALL of me for over 2 years. That is what they needed and that is what they got. I’ve seen all to often when a parent introduces their children to a woman/man, kids attach, and then things don’t work out, and the kids are once again left grieving when they weren’t even finished grieving the loss of the 1st relationship. So if/when you do decide to date (I’m presuming your kids are younger) please keep things separate from your kids for a good while.

“””When is it appropriate to tell the other person that you are D with children? Is it appropriate on the first date? Prior to even asking out?”””

IMHO, they should know before the 1st date. I mean shouldn’t it come up in conversation? Everyone that I know or meet or have more than a 10 minute conversation with knows that I have three daughters. They are a major focal point of life. Plus, in all honesty, just like some men, some women don’t want to date someone with children. If I were you, on the second time around, I’d be sure that all my cards were on the table. Start any new relationship off on the solid foundation of honesty.

Best of luck to you…

Hey there,

BS fog? Exactly what you are feeling and going through right now. Anger, hurt, denial in any form. Fog can be a way of protecting yourself and not being vulnerable. You are only six months into finding out. That is not very long to make up your mind about your marriage but I can totally understand what you are going through. Some just want to end it and that is it! Some want to fix the "problem" and make their marriage stronger then it ever was before. We are all different and do things differently.

We are here to help you get through the pain and give you advice on how to deal with the affair and your feelings and make decisions that is right for you. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

But again, please wait about asking another women out. You might hurt her and you might get hurt as well. Ask yourself this question, "How much in love were you with you wife before you found out about the affair"? But omit your marriage problems from your feelings. See what answer you come up with. If you could, please post your answer because I am going somewhere with this.

Ali~

Losthusband
I ain’t seen nobody beat you up too much…. However, some around here call things for what they are and many have been through where you’re heading and offer advice based on their mistakes. And some of us are hell bent on making our own path rather than accepting that there is one already made. But I was also thinking, a lot has been offered but I can’t find anything about your real situation. Could you take a moment to give us a brief run down of where you are? Has the divorce been filed? Are you still living together (I read something about a Valentine’s Day hearing)? Did you ever tell her about your affair? I noticed some thread about drinking, is that under control? How old are you children? What are your custody thoughts?
Divorce is filed (back in Dec). Still living together. Wife cancelled hearing to have me removed from the house. Drinking is under control. Haven't drank heavily in more than a month. I did have one beer on 3-1-05 (last drink). Children = 3 kids ages 3 - 9. Was going to go for custody, but being realistic I know my W will get them. I figured I would save attorney fees and not fight it, but want joint custody.

Did I tell my STBXW about my A - No. Here's why, She still has not admitted to hers being a physical relationship, but has spent 4 nights in a hotel with OM and 5-6 nights at his residence. When she admits it I will. Also, since I filed for D she could use it against me so unless she admits it I am not going to, however flawed that thinking may be.

“””In a way I feel like my STBXW and I could have/should have tried harder, but she just wasn't putting in the effort and I can't get myself to do that anymore either.”””

I don’t know of all the specifics just what I’ve read on the boards but it sounds like a two-way street to me. Maybe it is done, maybe it is over, then again maybe you both could bring your heads out of the fog and save a family which can’t happen while either of you is seeing or desiring others.
I agree 100% (me coming out of fog?)

“””Her A just took the love I have for her as a wife right out of me.”””

Again, I ask, does she know about your affair? I’m only asking for a simple reason because that may be an item that will bring you both to an equal playing field. It no longer allows you to hold it above her which could be standing in the way of recovery.
See above

“””That is why I post here - for advice. I understand I should wait until I am officially divorced to start pursuing other relationships and that makes sense. We'll see.”””

Actually there are a couple different schools of thought on this and everyone is different. A good guideline is wait 1 year for every 5 years you were married. Again, not knowing all the dynamics, but I can tell you one thing that hasn’t been mentioned yet and that is the kids. They require time to grieve. To them, this is a huge loss. Don’t know your children’s ages, but I do know that my children required ALL of me for over 2 years. That is what they needed and that is what they got. I’ve seen all to often when a parent introduces their children to a woman/man, kids attach, and then things don’t work out, and the kids are once again left grieving when they weren’t even finished grieving the loss of the 1st relationship. So if/when you do decide to date (I’m presuming your kids are younger) please keep things separate from your kids for a good while.
Definitly. I would not introduce anyone new to the chidren unless it was getting serious.

“””When is it appropriate to tell the other person that you are D with children? Is it appropriate on the first date? Prior to even asking out?”””

IMHO, they should know before the 1st date. I mean shouldn’t it come up in conversation? Everyone that I know or meet or have more than a 10 minute conversation with knows that I have three daughters. They are a major focal point of life. Plus, in all honesty, just like some men, some women don’t want to date someone with children. If I were you, on the second time around, I’d be sure that all my cards were on the table. Start any new relationship off on the solid foundation of honesty.

Best of luck to you…
Makes sense thankyou.

Ali
Hey there,

BS fog? Exactly what you are feeling and going through right now. Anger, hurt, denial in any form. Fog can be a way of protecting yourself and not being vulnerable. You are only six months into finding out. That is not very long to make up your mind about your marriage but I can totally understand what you are going through. Some just want to end it and that is it! Some want to fix the "problem" and make their marriage stronger then it ever was before. We are all different and do things differently.

I guess I may be felling it. I know I do not harbor so much anger and hurt now. Like I mentioned above I told my STBXW last Fri. to go ahead and call her OM and I would be fine with it. I truly feel I would too.

We are here to help you get through the pain and give you advice on how to deal with the affair and your feelings and make decisions that is right for you. [Wink]
Thanks, I know. I like this place it has helped me quite a bit.

But again, please wait about asking another women out. You might hurt her and you might get hurt as well. Ask yourself this question, "How much in love were you with you wife before you found out about the affair"? But omit your marriage problems from your feelings. See what answer you come up with. If you could, please post your answer because I am going somewhere with this.

Ali~
I agree and have decided not to ask anyone out until I can sort out my feelings for sure. How much in love was I with my wife prior to her A? Well, that's just it. For the past 7 or so years I have felt like I didn't love my wife as a wife. I loved her as the mother of my children, but not as a wife. I (and this is a huge part of our problems) never said anything, but she obviously knew and felt similar toward me all those years. When I found out about her A it made me realize that I did love her and didn't want to lose her, but then she refused to stop her A and it just kept eating away at me till I filed for D. Even then I didn't want a D, but felt it was my only way out. As time passed I have gotten more and more used to the idea of living my life alone and now I think that maybe my STBXW and I are just wrong for each other. My most important EN's are hard for her to fill and hers are hard for me. It's just our personalities.

BMBO

Hi BMBO,

Well, you answered my question there. I know you are filing for divorce, but are the two of you in any counseling? What about exit counseling. You might need that to get everything laid out on the table so it will be easier in the long run for both of you. If she is still under the same roof as you, how are you REALLY dealing with it? Being a BS at first was the most painful experience I had ever dealt with so far in my life. But just like you, if he started seeing someone again, it would not bother me. As a matter of fact, I would feel less guilty for wanting a divorce. But I now realize that my H. affair was the icing on the cake. I guess we are not meant for each other too.
I love my husband because of the long history we shared. But in love? NO! He is not the right man for me either.

Can I ask what your EN's are? Sometime's a lot of people don't know what their needs are and go in vicious circles of resentment towards their SP because they feel that something is missing in their M. If you know you needs now, it will help you for your next relationship and communicating to them right away.

Ali~

Affairs are just a fact and a part of life and in conclusion they are indeed wrong.

Hope I have not offended anyone.

One should be alone seperated or divorced and date ONE AT A TIME

Its just not healthy and it takes away the positive energy of our very inner self.

I know I know... I realised it late <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" />

Nick

Ali,

I list my top 3 EN as:
SF - STBXW has no sex drive. Has told me over the years she doesn't care if she ever has sex again. For 10 years we have had SF once a month.

Financial Security - I need a woman who has the same aspirations as I, my STBXW spends $ like we have it. When we met, she was in cc debt. I helped get her out, we dug ourselves into cc debt again. We got out and now she has gotten us into cc debt again. I can't handle the stress of it all

Attractive spouse (I know, how shallow <img border="0" title="" alt="[Roll Eyes]" src="images/icons/rolleyes.gif" /> ) - At least she meets this need of mine.

We are in counselling, not exit counselling though.

Nick, you did not offend me at all.

Sex, looks and financial security is very much real. God, how can she live without it?? I am going nuts now!!!! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Eek!]" src="images/icons/shocked.gif" /> I don't think you were being shallow there in all that you mentioned. Credit cards are a taboo. That is something me and my husband actually agree on. I stay clear away from them. I do have one to build up my credit and for emergencies.

What about the other needs that subside in a marriage? And have you discussed these in MC as well?

Because I don't know you, I am not sure how well you understand this so please don't be offened when I mention this. Communication is the most important need in a marriage. It builds a fondation opf trust. If communication is absent, then a lot of assuming goes on and needs are not met. I know you might have talk to her until you are blue in the face about CC but what about others needs? You have to feed communication. Kinda like programming a computer. It only knows what we program it. Right? Same thing with a marriage.

I hope this will help you if you get into a relationship in the future. It looks like your mind is made up. But did she mention anything about wanting to meet the financial need or the sexual need?

Ali~