Hi Deja Vu,

Thanks for wishing the best for both Petvet and myself. I personally wish the best for you as well Deja Vu.

To answer your question, about wanting it again? Hopefully I'm on the same page as you are... but did I want it again?

To answer your question... The only thing that I ever really wanted was my family to be as a whole, not fragmented, and not destroyed.

So what I wanted, never came to fruition.

After it was all said and done with... I never really wanted much of anything, aside from myself and my kids to attempt to become whole again... that was my main focus.

I think that I may have acheived that... but I will probably never really know that for sure.

As time goes on... I'm realizing, that it takes a lot more to make a relationship work, than what it use to in days gone by... and I'm not sure that I have really have anymore left to put forth to make a relationship work.

Soooo... do I really want it?

I guess the answer is no.

My dreams, my aspirations, and everything that I had put forth... was in fact destroyed. it was just a matter of picking up the pieces... kinda like "Humpty Dumpty".

For me... there are no more illusions... we have all been to the puppet show, and I think most of us have seen it all.

I don't know if I answered your question... but I gave it a hell of a try.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

[color:"blue"] Wallace [/color]
Did you have some wine when you typed that post? It was very "down" and you sounded...well, kinda depressed. Is everything OK? I think you're right about it taking energy to continue a relationship and as we get older, we have other responsibilities that need/use our energy. But then I think - if the relationship is "love" then shouldn't it, in and of itself, be energizing?? Hmmm...just some ramblings from me (the one who is never going to get married again).

Hey All,

avondale...

After reading the post... it does sound like I'm depressed.

With everything going on right now... G/F, Lawyers, Court, and the continuous filing of all of these papers to the Courts... I think because of all the CS Court issues (which I though were over)... maybe it's starting to get to me.

I just take each day as it comes now... and to answer your question... I was drinking a glass of wine at the time I posted.

I'm all right though... I just wish I could move on with my life and put all of this back story stuff behind me. Aside from that... life is pretty good!

So your never getting married again?

Did I read that right since I can't flip back without losing everything?

I'm starting to have some seriuos second thoughts about getting married again... I'm not sure I can start over in a new marriage.

Well I hope everyone is doing well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Hi all! I made it back in one piece. Vegas was 113 degrees plus.

Avondale: Thanks for the reference.

Dejavu: I always knew that I wanted to get back into another relationship. I believe in the marriage institution. I chalk my experience as having made a bad choice. My main point was to learn from my mistakes and learn to become a better partner; however, with that all said, I am shell shocked. As Wallace indicated, my main point in my last marriage was to keep the family together at the very least. I figured what's good for the child is good for me, but my former did not share my opinion. I certainly don't want to fail again. It takes a whole lot of work to make a marriage work especially after you have baggage. Marraige works best when you have less baggage. I have to admit that I am rather shock that Avondale and some others are anti-relationships. It bothers me to be honest with you.We have to learn from our experiences and keep moving forward. As Wallace said, when one gets married the first time, one is bright eyed and bushy tailed. Now, after a D, one is war torn. We have to wear our war scars with pride and use them to help us make better judgements in the future.

Me: I'm doing good.

Let me clarify - I am not anti-relationship. I am pro-marriage. However, I am quite at peace with myself, where I'm at spiritually and in every other way. I don't feel incomplete as I am now. Some people look for others to fill needs in their life (I'm not saying you are) and I'm not doing that. Does that make sense?

Hey Petvet - how much money did you win/lose in Vegas?? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" />

Interesting discussion - I'm not sure where I weigh in on the issue of relationships and marriage. At this point in my life, I'm not sure what the purpose would be for getting married again. I'd like to believe that a long term committed relationship can be better than going it alone. Right now, I'm not sure I believe that. I guess I really feel I need and want time to be alone, for awhile at least. I have some friends who have been a couple for several years now, but they each have their own houses and seem happy that way. I could see doing that.

For me I don't think it's about war scars. It's about the relief I feel when I go home at night to a peaceful home. It's about being able to say no to things I don't want to do. It's about having cheese and crackers for dinner and not having to apologize to anyone for it - and not having to eat my crackers at the appropriate "dinner time". I guess the last 20 years of marriage is all I can relate to now about how it really works, and I don't want to live that way anymore.

On another note, I'm getting concerned that my H suddenly has gone dark - from chomping at the bit to get things done to nothing at all, now that my attorney told him he's being unfair and that I've asked that he not contact me about it any longer. I'm worried about what he has up his sleeve.

It's very hard to maintain this silence and limbo. I don't know if I can explain it, but I feel this overwhelming need to make the conflict go away. To find a mutual solution. To separate the financial stuff from other stuff, and to ask how he's doing. Yet, I realize that's what I've always done. I've been the one to find solutions, and the one to suffer when we couldn't both get what we wanted.

Don't worry - for all of you who tell me to be strong - I'm not going to cave. I'm too angry to cave in.

I've been reading about narcissism ("Why is it Always About You?"). I realize that he isn't ever going to understand my views, as doing so would mean facing his own problems and he doesn't think he has any. Which is one of the traits of a narcissist. So, it's a double edged sword. I remember when I asked him (OK, it was sort of an ultimatum) to get help for himself several years ago. He went into counseling and would not talk about it to me - which was OK with me at the time. I later found out the entire time he spent trying to figure out how to get over being mad at his mother for how badly she'd treated him. Nothing at all about himself, his behavior, his attitudes... it was all about his mother and what she did to him. Then he decided he wasn't mad at her anymore, and therefore no longer needed counseling.

I am SO impatient to get on with things. Some days I can't stand this!

Hi all!

Dejavu: The reason why you fell you are in limbo is because you are in limbo. These types of situations don't go away quickly. It's like having a ton of bricks on your shoulder. It can wear on you emotionally. Question: This couple friends of yours, are they married or are they just a committed couple who live in separate households.

Avondale: I understand. I go back and forth as to whether I want to go it alone but companionship is nice at times. As far as what I won, I only gamble $3-$5 bucks. The casinos don't accept coins anymore. You have to put down a minimum of $1 (depending on the machine) on a card that can be used in the slot machines. I was told this method is much quieter, but the main reason is to keep as much money as possible from leaving the casinos.

Later.

[color:"blue"] Deja Vu [/color]
How are things progressing for you on the legal end of things? Are you waiting on your H or his lawyer to do/sign/instigate something? Everyone here knows all about being in limbo! It sucks, plain and simple. Just take it one day at a time, one step at a time.
I know you still (and perhaps always will) care about your H and ‘how he’s doing’. Remind yourself he’s a big boy and can (and SHOULD) handle things himself.

As for not hearing from your H....how concerning is this? Do you think he could do something ugly? Or maybe he’s doing a “Plan B” on you?

Where is everyone these days? [color:"purple"] Trusting? [/color] [color:"orange"] Relady? [/color] [color:"green"] Leah? [/color] [color:"red"] EC? [/color] And there's probably someone I've missed (but only cuz you haven't posted recently!)

Not married. They each own their own homes. Seems like the best of both worlds (to me, right now, anyway.)

I think he's trying to find some way to bleed more $$ out of me. My attorney mentioned at one point that if he lost his job he might go after me for support. H had mentioned he was about to be fired.

I also learned from my realtor who checked the county records that our old house is deeded to me alone. H was never on the deed! What a surprise. You can check these records on line, so I did that and confirmed it is true. SO, what if he stops making payments - they'll come after me for property taxes.

H has already suggested he is entitled to half the equity in this house, which means I'll have to trace all the $$ that went into it so far to prove the equity belongs to me. But the longer this drags on the worse it could get if my house appreciates.

He also thinks he supported us and should be entitled to more of the equity than I am. It is only in the past 4 years that he made more than I did, plus initially I had $$ and he had nothing. This was in the prenup that I was entitled to my original $$. Trouble is I'd have to figure out how to trace 20 years worth of records, and you know you only need to keep records for 7 years. So I don't know what I kept and what I didn't - or what is with the house records that he kept.

So, I'm wracking my brain to see what he might dream up. Tomorrow I will ask my attorney if there is something we can do immediately to protect me and freeze things at a point in time.

Wow [color:"blue"] Deja Vu [/color] that bites! Can you confirm, perhaps online, that he's making the payments on the house? It seems if the title is in only your name, that might work FOR you, not against you, in settlement. Do you have a timeline for things (either thru your atty or in your own mind) or are you willing to take it slowly? Or maybe you're still putting your H in the driver's seat...?

Just talked to my ISP... have bought a new domain and changed my E-Mail as I found everything I write - or have forwarded to me from here - is accessible to H. That's stopping RIGHT NOW.

I also talked to my attorney. We are going on the offense now. My timeline is YESTERDAY.

As soon as I know the E-Mail thing is resolved, I'll feel more free to talk about this.

Hope all is well with the rest of you!

Update: My attorney has now contacted H again. This time he asked him if he has an attorney, and to have him/her contact my attorney. Or if he doesn't have one, to let my attorney know that too - because if we don't hear from him soon we are going to proceed to initiate the paperwork ourselves. He also left the door open for something short of that to happen. If H wants to agree on what we are going to do next, we can still file a simpler set of paperwork ourselves.

Another update: last night I was teaching at the dog club, and one of my former students came up to me and said she and her new pup had run into my H over the weekend. Her pup was terrified of him - the first and only person the pup has reacted to like that. Nothing H did, including getting down on the ground with the pup, worked. The pup was having no part of him. (I have met the pup and thought he was very outgoing and friendly).

Two of my own dogs had a similar reaction when we ran into H a couple months after I moved out. They were in the car when H came over to give me some things. Neither of them would greet him, and the young one acted afraid. I thought it odd at that time, as both had been raised with him. But H had/has a terrible temper, and many times I would have a room full of dogs, running to me for protection. I have always trusted the instinct of my dogs about people. Oddly enough, when I met H over 20 years ago, he had the opposite effect on the dogs I had then, including one that was very unaccepting of strangers and actually liked my H.

[color:"blue"] Deja Vu [/color] - I think your atty did the right thing - all the bases were covered and it still allowed your H to have some sort of "control" (in his own mind) of the situation. It's all about perception, isn't it?

What kind of dogs do you show? I can't remember if you said that before.

I show dogs in performance events - not for appearance, and I do not breed dogs. Right now I have spaniels and a border collie.

Hey All,

Well I think I've gotten through my CS issues for about the fourth time... so hopefully it's settled.

Deja Vu...

Just a word of caution concerning your house. Since it's only in your name, and your name only... I would keep very close tabs on whether your "H" is making the payments, and making them timely.

Through personal experience that I've been through... it would be a good idea to really follow up on that and make sure the payments are being made.

Petvet, avondale, leah, Trusting Him, Deja Vu, relady, and EC, I hope your all doing well.

I myself have been real busy... lot of things going on, but it looks as if I might be seeing the light at the end of the tunnel finally... after 3 plus years. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hope everyone has a great day and a great week.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Hi all!

Dejavu: A couple of things: 1. As far as I know, it does not matter who makes more money when it comes to spliting equity or money that went into the house especially if both of you work. 2. I agree with Wallace that you need to check whether mortgage payments are being made on your home especially if he may be losing his job. 3. I agree with you that you need to get this thing done soon because if he loses his job, it may impact negatively on the issue. 4. Does he know that you are on this web site? If so, I would STOP discussing your D with us. You don't need to give him anymore clue to your intentions.

Wallace: CS issue? Are you sure it's dead now? It seems to come back to life off and on.

Avondale: I hope all is well.

Me: Question for everyone? Could you be involve in a committed relationship long term (many years or forever) without being married? Keep in mind that your mate or yourself could cut the cord at anytime and make a clean break w/o reprecussion after the investment of time, emotion, etc. Let me know your feelings on the matter. I am doing some serious soul searching. Avondale, Wallace, others: shoot it to me straight.

Later.

Hi all,

Petvet...

I've been doing some soul searching myself as far as my current relationship with my G/F.

To answer your question... yes I believe I could go through a committed relationship long term. In fact according to my G/F I already am, and she doesn't think I will take the plunge (and she may very well be right).

If your considering just staying as a committed couple without marriage... I know a few people that are not living together, and they are doing just that... and they seem to be doing fine.

Of course, you both have to have the same mind set about this type of relationship, which is where I am running into problems.

She wants to get married right now... and I'm perfectly happy where our relationship is situated for the time being.

Have you talked about this with your buddy?

If not, you need to have a talk.

Me...

Do I think my CS issues are over? Probably not, but I think for the moment... everything is pretty well settled as best as it can be.

Hope everyone is doing well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

[color:"blue"]I am seeing a guy that had a serious 4 year relationship after his divorce. It was a couple of years after the divorce, so he did have some time to recover and date. She moved in with her children for six months during the third year and then she moved back out. I think that in line with what Harley says - he didn't want to have to make any adjustments to accommodate her living there, and because she had children and his lifestyle does not accommodate children, it was quickly apparent that it would not work out with them living together. They still limped on for another 1 1/2 years.

Fast forward to the now - three years later. We've been seeing each other for over a year and I am struggling with the same issue as you pet. Do I want to see a guy for the next ten years once or twice a week?

I know in my heart that the answer is no.

I actually cruise dating sites and have even gone on a few dates without him knowing about it. For me, there is no committment outside of marriage that precludes other relationships from being a possibility.

Don't get me wrong - I would never want to have a serious dating relationship or physical relationship with two men at the same time. I can not close the door on "looking" though. When I was married I never looked - I don't know why I don't feel the same except for the fact that I am NOT married.

Neither of us have the "right" to draw a line in the sand without the vows. Either of us could just take a walk at any time, so why bother working really really hard at the relationship or even caring if the relationship continues? There are ten other guys out there that would love it if I were available.

I want someone who wants to be with me so badly that they will commit their life to me. I will not let go of my reserve until I get that. If he won't commit, then I'll find someone else who will.

I haven't found anyone that I like as much as I like him, but that doesn't mean that I won't find someone else someday.

You might look at this way: if you were my boyfriend, thinking that I would stick around for 10 years waiting for a committment would be a big mistake.

I've thought about telling my boyfriend how I feel about this, but it seems like an ultimatum. Who wants to marry someone that doesn't want to get married? Who wants to have children and be with someone that can't accommodate their lifestyle to children?

V.[/color]

Petvet,
I will respond after I think on it a little while <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />