Hi all!

Sunnyva39: I could not have said it better myelf. You and I are of the same mindset. Your words hit a cord with me. There is a difference between being married and just being a committed couple. Each of us could jump ship very easily w/o the life long commitment. I am still thinking but I am focused in my thought process. Thanks.

Avondale: I can't wait to hear your comment.

Wallace: What do you think about Sunny's comment?

Later.

Hi All,

Sunny...

Thank you for your response to Petvet's question.

I can't agree more with what you stated... who would want to be with someone long term, that is not ready to commit?

The question in my mind is... when does it become time to commit, or not commit?

In my situation... I've reached a cross roads in my relationship with my G/F. Do I want to go through with getting married, or do I just want to break it off with her entirely, as she feels about the same way you do.

Do I want to date her for ten years or longer? The answer to that question would be a resounding no. Do I want to enter into a marriage with issues still on the table... again the answer is no.

For me... I'm not in any real hurry to get married again. If and when I decide to a life long commitment of marriage.

Well, gotta go back to work, hope everyone is doing well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

[color:"blue"] Petvet [/color]
You come up with the most thought-provoking questions!

OK...first, let’s define “committed long-term relationship”. There are many different thoughts on what that could be
1) Dating exclusively (with or without sex)
2) Living together
3) Marriage
4) Making the vows (and maybe even exchanging some sort of “token of affection”) without benefit of a legal ceremony
5) probably others but I’m at work and can’t think of them

Obviously we all chose #3 yet our cords were cut with our mates. Having the wedding in front of witnesses didn’t deter our spouses. That being said, a relationship doesn’t become “long term” until after “the term” (time) has passed. Can you say at the onset of a relationship that it will be long-term? No, not any more than we could have said our marriages would have been forever.

What about definition #1? If you’re dating exclusively, does it mean you’ve talked about marriage? If one isn’t having sex (perhaps due to religious/moral beliefs) then that might be a reason for marriage. But it’s doubtful one would want to go for 20+ years in the celibacy boat!
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />
Definition #2 - After living together for some time, marriage would be the likely next step. However, why marry? For the commitment? There are plenty of people around who have co-habited for years w/o marriage and are happy. I guess they are mutually agreeable to their situation, and they have a mutual trust in the other person. You can buy property together, etc. I TOTALLY agree with [color:"blue"] Sunny’s [/color] comments when applied to this scenario. But then [color:"blue"] Wallace [/color] said:

Very good question! Hopefully it will be real clear to both people! But living together muddies the waters, IMHO.

Definition #4 is what my Dad has done with the wonderful lady he's with. At their age (and with all the financial ramifications) they have drawn up papers protecting their own individual assets and are living together. I have copies of all the documents. He knows I don't think this is "God's best", but hey, it's my dad and I love him regardless, what can I say?

For me personally, I would say the answer to Petvet’s original question is “no” before it even goes anywhere. If the relationship became committed, I would want all cards laid on the table, and to know how things stand...and set the date for marriage! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

[color:"green"] Other questions [/color] - How does commitment (or lack thereof) affect your son? Or Buddy’s daughter? What examples do you want to be to them?

Sorry this is rambling...but that question is so wide open, it's hard to nail down a specific answer. But if I were your sister, I'd say "if she can't sign a prenup then don't marry her. And don't settle for second best, don't live with her either. Find someone else." And one last thing - I think somewhere at this point the "Policy for Radical Honesty" that Dr. Harley writes about should come into play.

Hi everyone,

I do not think my identity here is compromised, but I need a break from talking about the sitch anyway.

I'm having very weird and sad feelings, dreams, etc. Feeling alone and without friends mostly. I don't know what brought this on. Last night I dreamt I was at a buffet type banquet and there were several groups of people from various parts of my past and present life there. Each group had a table staked out - and there was no room for anyone else to join any of them. They seemed to know I was there, and they were not snubbing me - just indifferent to me. (H was not in any of these dreams, BTW). I ended up leaving the banquet without sitting down and without eating. I awoke extremely sad and can't remember the last time I felt so alone.

Yesterday I found out the IC I'd been seeing last winter was gone - just gone. Left in June. They won't tell me where she went. Maybe this precipitated the dream, but it's not the first dream with a similar theme.

On another note - I've been following the threads about commitment and marriage. Not that I'm the best person to listen to, but I do have some thoughts to share.

I think it's ok to have a long term relationship without the "commitment of marriage" if that works for both people. I know a couple that is doing it now, and seems happy though I don't know their reasons. But, I also knew another couple that did it for years. The man was married to someone else who would not give him a divorce (in those days, that was an option for a spouse to refuse a divorce). He had been separated for many years before meeting the OW. They never lived together, but were a very committed couple for as long as I knew them (10+ years).

For those who are not content with this arrangement, but are reluctant to move forward towards marriage, I'd suggest either you are not ready for the commitment, or you are not with the right person yet.

What's the solution? If you could just think faster, maybe you could change your mindset quicker? No - there are things you can't rush - and mental readiness and healing time are two of them. For those of you who are strugging with this question, I think you're not ready for marriage, for whatever reason. Maybe you'll never be ready - but that's not the question on the table now. That doesn't need to be answered now. And I don't think you need to part ways and move on either, unless one party or another feels the need to.

I know that as of now I am not interested in marrying again. I also know I could change my mind, but I don't know what would cause that. If any part of me was holding back, I'd hold the rest of me back too - until I'd resolved it one way or the other. People sit on fences for reasons that should not be ignored, IMO.

[color:"blue"] Petvet [/color]
You may be interested to know that Dr. Phil will discuss 'the perils of prenuptual agreements' on his show today. Set your VCR if you haven't already left for work, I'm sure he'll have some facts to consider.

[color:"blue"] Deja Vu [/color] - That is interesting about your counselor leaving without a forwarding address. I guess they don't want some of the more needy (or disgruntled) clients bothering her (?). Where does that leave you - did they recommend someone else (or did the IC turn her notes over to another counselor)? Sometimes dreams do affect us, and have an effect on the way we react to things. I hope you're doing OK.

Today I learned she retired! The person I was originally talking to was from an appointment desk and not even at that same location. So, no wonder I didn't get good info. I did learn that nobody else at that location does EMDR which is one of the things I'm interested in. I have located another IC in the same network - different clinic - who does EMDR and I have to wait a month to get in.

Hey, has anyone here heard from Leah lately? Leah, are you there? How are you doing?

Seems like there are several people we haven't heard from lately. WHERE is everyone???? HOW is everyone????

I spoke to [color:"blue"] Leah [/color] about a week ago, and she asked about each person on this thread. I am hoping that she will be able to post her own update here in general terms. Not sure where [color:"blue"] EC [/color] or [color:"blue"] Relady [/color] have been, they are certainly missed... [color:"blue"] Trusting [/color] is still around and I wish he'd post more often! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

[color:"blue"] Petvet [/color] , what's on your mind about your "buddy" and marriage (or not marriage)?? Did you broach the prenup subject and get a reaction? Or have you even asked her about it? The Dr. Phil show about prenups was interesting and I hope you caught it! It pointed out certain "flaws" in the way one goes about discussing it with the other person. One example - don't bring it up AFTER you've popped the question. One lady had her fiancee say "prenup or no wedding" only 30 days from the wedding day (they were in their 50's) and they had already sent out invitations, made reservations for reception, etc. Also make sure that it is fair and protective to both parties. One lady had lost everything she had (house, any financial security at that point) in first marriage and had to totally rebuild with two young kids. Her next BF would not sign prenup on the grounds "it's insulting and she doesn't trust me". All she wanted to do was protect the assets she had had to build TWICE (that she lost in 1st divorce and then again to where she was now). I thought of those on this thread AND also others here at MB with this one....

Here is the link with synopsis of that show. Anyone who has prenups on their mind should visit here: Dr. Phil Show on Prenups

Hi Everyone,

I'm sorry I haven't stayed in touch better. This summer has been very busy with my three girls. Right now I'm at the beach visiting my sister. Between negotiations with H and working through all the legal stuff with my attorney, the summer is quickly passing.

All in all, things are going as well as can be expected. It's an ugly process that brings out so many emotions. There are days I feel so angry, then days I'm so very sad at what is happening. I pretty much have put the whole thing in the attorney's hands. With all that's taking place, I'm in great need of her legal expertise.

Petvet,

You asked some interesting questions. For myself, I would not want a long term commited relationship without marriage. For me, a long-term commited relationship is synonymous (sp?) with marriage. But as Avondale pointed out that is, sadly, not always the case. I guess if I was with a man, I would want to know that he's as crazy about me as I am him. I would want to know that he's ready to take it to the ultimate level of commitment which is IMO marriage.

I do believe long term committed relationships can work without marriage IF both people are of the same mindset and share the same values. If both parties don't have the same thinking, then you end up with a scenario such as Wallace and G/F. One party will always feel disappointed with the situation because it lacks something they desire.

Anyhow, that is just my feelings about the matter.... What are Buddy's feelings about marriage? Is she ready for that or would she be content with what you have? I could be misinterpretting but it seems like you're the marrying kind. Smile.


Deja Vu

It seems both of us are getting stronger in this whole process. I think we were both attempting a "nice, friendly" divorce but that doesn't seem too posible with our given situations. I have come to feel differently about some things as time has gone along. H is choosing this divorce and by doing so, he is choosing the consequences that come with divorce. Life will no longer be on his terms.

I always read here and keep up with everyone's situation. I just don't always have the time to respond. I hope you are feeling better. I'm sorry for your sadness. Please know you have friends here who care about you and want to help any way they can. Please feel free to e-mail me and if you want, we can exchange phone numbers. I have unlimited long distance calling with the plan I have, so I can call you. Take care.

Wallace,

I hope your child support issues are resolved. Seeing all you've been through makes me very cautious in this process. I'm trying really hard to cover all my bases up front. There is much to consider.

I'm curious how your situation will play out with your G/F. It can be so difficult to be where you are. I'm sure you care enough about her that it would be really hard to end the relationship for good. Yet, you definitely don't seem ready for marriage. It's hard to be in the middle with your feelings.

I was once in a relationship with someone like that. I really cared about the guy but just couldn't bring myself to commit to marriage. It went back and forth for awhile but it did eventually end. I feel bad now for what I put him through. He was so in love and really wanted to get married. Now, I wonder if I didn't make a mistake. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Oh well, too late now. He's happily married with three children. Nice, stable family man.

Take care Wallace. Thanks for all the input you always give. You've encouraged me to really think about a lot of things like custody. As I've told Deja Vu, I've really come to think differently on some issues, custody being one of them. I'll write more about that when I can. I'm still not sure how much of this might be read by my H, so I have to stay guarded about sharing too much.

Avondale,

It's always good to talk with you. I hope you are doing well. My last visit to the attorney went very well. Things are looking up! I'll have to give you a call later and give you an update. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Well, I'd love to - but I'm MB Board-Challenged, and can never figure out how to do all these things. Is there a way to e-mail you through the board somehow?

Hi Gang..........

Just dropping a line to say hello. I havn't forgot about ya'll...I peep every now and then but havn't posted.

I just want to encourage those that are in the beginning process or just found out to hang in there and for those who are in the middle to believe you will heal and will have GREAT joy again and success..

You have a beautiful treasure inside you and just because a person has despised you don't mean you are worthless or useless. Your treasures are unspeakable..

Many people who get wounded by the WS many times become consumed, controlled and confined by the negative things the WS did or said or what others said about you, when in fact the person or people that said the things about you, there lives are the one's really out of control..hmmmm?

So how do you break this cycle???..You need a bigger dream than what you had before. You need a vision of a greater life with purpose.

Many are trying to decide on a new marriage. Is the new relationship helping you to grow into a better person and vision you have for yourself? Does the new person add or take away from you?

Here's a point. Some marriages fail because one spouse becomes discourage about something in life and lose sight of romance and the other becomes distracted and lured away. By this time all marriage maintenance had fallen apart.

In our day and time, what keeps a relationship strong is to have a communicated vision and life with purpose. Having two people committed to a united vision and life with purpose is the greatest love feeling ever. Singleness in heart.

Anyway I rambled enough........Have a blessed and overcoming day!!!!

[color:"blue"] Leah [/color] - that's a great update, I'm glad you were able to post. I'll fix you and Deja Vu up with the other's email.

[color:"blue"] EC [/color] - It's great to hear from you. I think you should post more often! Your words are always an encouragement to me!

EC - very inspirational! I wish I could believe all you say, but I'm sure you'll understand why I'm not there yet.

I pray for the day I can write - from the heart - something like you wrote today.

Thanks!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> I'm beginning to think everyone but me (and maybe Deja Vu) went on vacation! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" />

I'm here! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

No vacations in my future until the D is over with. I don't dare spend the $$ right now.

Lots going on for me - I just received a PT teaching job offer for fall semester, and since I need $$ for legal fees, I accepted. Between that and all my other self-emloyment sidelines (that heat up in the fall), I am going to be a busy bee in the coming months.

I suppose now that it's a weekend, there will be even fewer people around here!

Hi All,

I'm back from vacation but I'm not at home. My parents were involved in a pretty bad car accident. Thankfully, they were not seriously injured. However, they were hurt and are needing some help at home. I'm just so grateful to the Lord for sparing their lives.

They could have been killed as they were hit from behind and the impact threw them into oncoming traffic in the opposite lane. So, they were hit from behind and then head-on. The car is totally gone but they're up and moving (Slowly and with some broken bones) I believe God knew that I couldn't take the devastation of losing my parents in addition to losing my marriage.

This week is going to be especially challenging as my girls are gone on vacation with their dad. He flew them all out to California. They will be doing all kinds of exciting things out on the West coast. I'm sure they'll have fun but I'm sure going to miss them.

It just hurts so much to not be together as a family as they experience this great adventure. I have to really focus on the right things or I can feel so down. It's LETTING GO and then LETTING GO some more.

So hard to do at times when your heart longs for all that you can no longer have. I think I better go read EC's encouraging post again. I need to believe it really can get better some day. Right now I feel so very sad. Sorry for the pity party.

Hope all of you are doing well. Thanks AVONDALE for DejaVu's e-mail. I'll try to write when I can sound a bit more up.
Thanks for being there. Take care.

Please excuse me everyone while I jump in and say hi to Leah.

Leah--

I just wanted to stop in and say hi. I'm always checking here to see how you're doing and what you need prayer for. I'm so sorry to hear about your parents accident but am so glad to hear that they are doing well. God is so merciful to us.

I noticed too in your other post your doubt about whether you married the right person or not. I just wanted to encourage you a little about that. I bet that most of us who come here with our ailing marriages have the same doubts--I know that I have had them often. I think back (hind sight is everything) and I can now see all the signs of trouble that I chose to ignore when we were dating. But you know that stupid saying about "if life hands you lemons, make lemonade"? Well, we know it's not always that easy. *But* if there's anyone who can make that lemonade it's our God. I know that sounds simplistic and rather lame but whether we make the "right" or "wrong" choice, when we put it in his hands, He will make something truly wonderful from it. From reading your posts here I think that He is working in your life and that He's working on *you*--making you the person that He's called you to be. Even if your last post was a little down (and very understandably so), overall you're sounding so much stronger. I'm so glad for that.

So it looks like you've given me alot to pray about <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> --your parents, you and your girls. Take care--it sounds like you're doing very well--really.

[color:"blue"] Leah [/color] ,
It's great to hear from you, no matter what! I'm sorry to hear about your parents, and am so thankful that they were not more seriously injured. I know how much it must hurt to not be doing the 'family vacation' thing...I think that every time there is a holiday, too. But isn't it a blessing (in a weird way) that you can occupy yourself with taking care of your parents while your kids are gone? I don't know how close you are to your folks, but this is a great opportunity to reconnect with them.

You will never need to apologize for the pity party. We all have them from time to time.

[color:"blue"] Deja Vu [/color] - I'm glad you're still posting regularly <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

[color:"blue"] Petvet, Wallace [/color] , where ARE you guys?!?!?!?!? I'm beginning to think y'all might have eloped <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> (not with each other, with your respective GF)

Hey All,

How is everyone making out? I hope everyone is hanging in there.

This summer has really been busy for me with working late, working on my house again, and I have been out looking at new homes as well on the weekends.

Not much outside of go to work, sleep, and go back to work has been happening in my life.

G/F and I are doing O.K.. I think she is getting ready to buy another house. She ran out of HGTV projects in the house she is in, so she's getting ready to buy another one... and she will probably start her HGTV projects on that one. She doesn't do a half bad job if I must say so myself.

Well... since I'm at work, I should probably get back to it.

Hope everyone is doing well.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Wow, Leah - I'm really sorry to hear about your parents, but am glad they are going to be OK. Please take care of yourself!

I'll post more later... got to run off to that place that supports all my habits.