OK the more I think about this latest offer of reconciliation from WH, the more angry I'm getting!

WH says he wants to stop the divorce, says he's ready to do whatever it takes to repair our marriage...

BUT then sends me an e-mail saying:

I'm going to start behaving like none of what happened, happened...

AND that he's going to come visit us this weekend!

GRRRRRRR!!!

Maybe I should e-mail something back like:

WOW!!! You must really be serious this time if you are going to get everything done so we can trust you again before this weekend! How do you plan to explain it to our daughters and assure them this is not just another false recovery? Do you have a recovery plan written out to show us? Have you written the no contact letter to the OW yet? What did your family think when you told them the truth? How did you get a counseling appointment so fast? This is exciting that you are working so fast, keep me posted on the details of your progress!

<small>[ March 09, 2005, 05:49 PM: Message edited by: meremortal ]</small>

Hi Mortal:

Don't blame you for frustration. Stick to your boundaries! Sounds to me like an alien is still in the mix. Good to hear that recon is being discussed though. Any chance that WH might at least lurk here - or perhaps post? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />

FR

I was thinking of sending WH here to start his education on how to repair the mess he's made.

He always makes all the right promises, SAYS he's "ready to do whatever it takes" for reconciliation, until I mention anything SPECIFIC he needs to do...

He just called again.

I told him I was worried about him saying in the e-mail that he planned to act as if none of this ever happened. He said something like, 'You know I just want to put this all behind us'. I reminded him that we'd tried that before and it just left me feeling like I had to suffer alone and that I felt pressured to trust him too soon. I don't want to try the same thing that already failed so many times in the past.

I told him if he comes to visit this weekend without doing anything first to prove this time will be different, then I would be very scared that I (and our daughters) will just end up getting hurt again. He 'assured' me that won't happen again because he FEELS like taking care of me and never hurting me again... I responded (calmly - but inside wanting to scream or cry) that feelings change and I needed to have some proof that he's willing to learn how to make things different this time.

I asked him if he's read any books on how to repair your marriage after adultery. He said a little (books I loaned him a couple of years ago probably). I asked him if he was willing to apply any specific steps he read about. He said if this was going to be all scientific then he wasn't going to be able to do it! And he said he's not much of a reader... I said he could listen to books on tape, go to seminars and counseling to learn what he needs to do.

I asked what was he willing to do? He said to treat me like he treated the OW, date me, flirt with me, etc. (All things that involve me having contact with him again before I'm ready to trust him.)

I asked him what he said to his family about wanting to reconcile. He said nothing yet.

I told him I can't tell our daughters anything about another reconciliation attempt until he comes up with a specific plan, a different plan than what never worked before.

He said he had to get back to work and would talk more about it later...

<small>[ March 09, 2005, 05:51 PM: Message edited by: meremortal ]</small>

I have to go back to work, I'll talk about it later. Translation - I'll put her off until I can think of a good answerl

OR, you could reply: "I want to thank you for everything, im not sure if im ready to be commited in a relationship right now. Im in a relationship with somebody else and im enjoying my freedom and the excitement of intimacy with a new person. If my relationship with my friend slow down a bit, im sure i will probably still be interested in you and we can both try to forget our past mistakes"

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Woodmaster:
<strong> OR, you could reply: "I want to thank you for everything, im not sure if im ready to be commited in a relationship right now. Im in a relationship with somebody else and im enjoying my freedom and the excitement of intimacy with a new person. If my relationship with my friend slow down a bit, im sure i will probably still be interested in you and we can both try to forget our past mistakes" </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So you recommend lying as a way to try & fix a relationship?

Besides, why would one date while still married?
Do you (Woodmaster) think this is acceptable, prior to divorce?

yes

Lying or dating or both?

I have to agree with woodmaster on this one, only perhaps not to lie - but say that there is the possibility of a relationship that you'd like to explore before recommitting.

I have seen on these boards so many times that as soon as the BS lets go and moves on the WS has an epiphany- and the fog lifts or something.

Not real big proponents/believers of Marriage Builders principles, eh?

but say that there is the possibility of a relationship that you'd like to explore before recommitting
Why would she explore a relationship before the marriage is over?
It's wrong for the wayward spouse to do it but it's okay for the betrayed spouse? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" />

This whole thing has gotten off subject...meremortal's WH is sitting on the fence again and she's trying to find out if the guy is serious about another recon attempt or not...and we need to help her out in the deciding process.

I think meremortal, that talking with him is good. You can watch his actions, non verbal especially. Get a feel if he's really trying or if this is lip service.

As for me, I'd have already printed off a "very rough" draft of a NC letter...and let him "personalize" it especially for his OW. And if he's serious, he will have it written and you two can mail it together within 24 hours!

And as for his comment about treating you like the OW...I would say that "H, while I agree you should indeed do these same things such as flirt shamlessly with me, date me, wine and dine me, but you should do the one thing you did not do with the OW..and that is respect me and respect our committment." I would make that plainly clear without LB'ing. Leave it open ended and sweetly say to him "Can you do this for me? For us?"

He has to know that you're not going to remain waiting for him forever...however, BLATANTLY LYING to a WS to get him jealous isn't the answer either. Now...I can see how somebody could "give the impression" they've moved on in their actions, doing the lying does nothing but cement the WS actions...you're validating it! Heck, if it's good for the WS then it's good for you.

I am more of an advocate of the actions of moving on. Not having the same ole schedule. Being gone when you're usually at home. Changing up or updating your look, and in essence doing a few of the same things people who waltz into the fog do...with the exception of LOWERING YOUR STANDARDS AND CHEATING. Even if it's only pretending...

How on earth could a BS ask for fidelity from their WS if the BS is pretending themselves to be entangled in a fictional affair? Can somebody pleeeeeease give me the reasoning behing this one?

Not to worry, Chris and Just Peachy,

I am waiting until the divorce before dating.

I don't want anything to spoil my fun and chances of a grat marriage in my future.
Anyway, any man who would date me while I'm still married is somebody I would NOT be interested. In fact, the guys who have let me know that they would date me now, I will continue to turn down after the divorce is final. Only then I will be telling I am free to date but I am not interested in THEM because of their low morals.

Anyway, WH has already changed his mind again... got 'scared'... Said he wasn't leading me on, really did 'feel' like reconciling last week, but not now.

Of course he denies it has anything to do with:

leading me on

lingering feelings for OW

saving face (not wanting his family to know if we reconcile)

my saying I won't stop the divorce until he does more than promise all the right things - he actually has to do some things first

my insisting on nothing more than phone calls and e-mail, refusing to see him in person until we POJA on specific plan for reconciliation

my not wanting to tell daughters anything yet,
until I feel he is trustworthy

telling him even though OW's friend says that OW wants nothing more to do with him, that I will still need him to send the OW the no contact letter, because I will need to see him demonstrate that HE wants it to be known that he chooses me and is more concerned with my feelings than with OW's
(besides OW would be too embarrassed to admit to her family & friends that she might still have contact with my WH - I want proof that both OW and WH are through with each other)

my not letting him come visit over weekend (and stay night)

him thinking my financial problems give him more negotiation leverage

He insists that he's 'sorry' he's done this to me again, he doesn't want to hurt me, but he's simply changed his mind.

I told him I don't accept his apology;
I refuse to believe he's sorry for something he continues to do.

I told him the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over but expecting a different outcome.

I chewed him out pretty good and told him I think he was just wanting to come here to get some SF and THEN he would have dumped me again.
I told him if he thought the $4,000 he was paying to get the car fixed was enough to buy him some SF with me he was nuts!

I told him I was glad I refused to stop the divorce and refused to tell our daughters about his reconciliation offer.

I said I am going through with the divorce, and if he ever figures out what he wants and how to achieve it, I will probably already be married to a better man by then.

I know your not. Just trying to point others in the right direction.

Set your boundaries, make sure he knows exactly what they are and you make sure you stick to them.

who says your right?
Maybe you not right and i am right?
who decides these things?

If an agreements(marriage)is broken, why should the agreement(marriage) still be valid and true to the person who abided by the mutual agreement. Seems to me there was never a real marriage, it was based on fraud/lies. The person who commited the fraud/lies can never be trusted because they are untrustworthy. People who have these traits cannot ever be in a marriage, they are not learned atributes, they are born with these atributes. An oak tree can never talk or drive a car, explaining that with proper training it can learn these abilities is nonsence. Child molesters/killers have special abilities too, they are different, their way of thinking is differnt, im not saying cheaters are equaly as bad, but they have a special way of thinking and are all around us, you will never know who they are because they will never admit there personal thoughts/wants because they dont want anyone to know what they really are. They could keep their true selves secret for many reasons, maybe because they are ashamed of what they are, or they are calculating who to destroy next. In a million years i could never molest a child, no torcher, no brainwashing, no threats of anything can make me harm children, i would rather die. A cheater knows how much he will hurt their spouse/family and destroy them, yet they do it anyways.. purposly, they dont care if they hurt their family or children, they want what they want even if it will cause their family pain forever, if they did care about their family they would take their own life before hurting others. It is really very simple to understand if you think hard about it. We do grow attached to these type of people, not because they are good people, because we think they are good or we want them to be good. BUT they are capable of hurting the only people who they swear are the only ones they care about, this contridiction defines the person.

Woodmaster,

This is an anti-adultery site.

I do not come here seeking 'support' for adultery. Iknow full well that some people think I am entitled to commit adulery, given the circumstances...

I CHOOSE to ignore such 'suport'.
I know how to detect and avoid temptation, including (however well-meaning) the 'support' of folks who would excuse the lowering of my standards.

I also realize that my WH may never get it, may never change his ways.

But that does not give me an excuse to change MY ways, to become more like him (not an excuse I would employ anyway).

Ironically, you fail to realize that your conditional endorsement of adultery is the cause of most adultery. The sort of problem my WH has, being a serial adulterer because of a deeper-seated problem is more the exception than the rule. MOST adulteries are committed by people who view adultery more like you do IMHO, and BS's who succumb to the assurances that now it's their turn to have some fun.

Unfortunately, some peopel are only against adultery when somebody else is doing it...

Their objection or endorsement hinged on whose side they're taking.

If the adulterer is themself, their friend or relative, or the victim of a WS, then it's OK?

If I became an adulterer now too, then would what my WH did become OK, as in I got even? Or would my adultery be OK simply because my WH did it first?

I'm pretty sure the OW thinx what she did was OK, wasn't really adultery, because (according to my WH) our marriage was already over, we shouldn't have gotten married in the first place, they were soulmates, we were separated, blah-blah-blah

But you see, I AM very different from my WH and the OW, and also different from you apparently.

Not only do I KNOW that it would be wrong for me to commit adultery, I would certainly not be the least bit interested in marrying anyone who would approve of adultery, regardless of the circumstances.

The divorce isfinal now.

So NOW I AM free to date (if/when I choose to).

So the next time some man asks me out I might accept... IF he wasn't one of the ones who saw noting wrong with asking me out before the divorce was final! I am totally not interested in that type.

Also, I would prefer to get to know a man in a group setting for a while first before going out on a date, just the two of us alone. I'm not interested in spending time alone with a man who's pretty much a stranger. I have no desire to get involved with a man before meeting his family and friends and vice versa. So I think it would be best to just spend time going to group activities, pretty much as usual. Just continue to do things with family and friends, church and hobby related. Then if/when an acceptable fella asks me out we can start going together to the group activities, double dating with other couples we know, and spending more time with each others' families. There's no rush so the one-on-one dating can come later IMHO.