When I posted on GII - regarding WH seems to be moving towards me and I wanted to know what to expect - you replied and I've not asked him what's going on, etc. I've just been cordial when treated cordially..I still come and go he does too but has held off alittle over the past 2 weeks..

SO...I was on my way to the barn last nite - though, I stopped for 2 drinks b-4 that - well, ran into yes, new male friends and ended up staying past my normal time. Got home later than usual.

WH called my cell - which I didn't hear - so I didn't answer.

Then today, he asks Where I was? Which I only said I was Out..

Then I hear - what's going on??? I said nothings going on - he replied that for 2 weeks now I seem "Different"..Remember, he heard that I have a BF (which I do not)again, he asked what's going on?

Then it was - I want to know because I don't want "blind sided"..

What the heck does that mean???? He NEVER called my cell when I was out b-4, except in the early stages of D-day..He never questioned where I was..

Again, I don't want to push him away - but, I don't "owe him answers either"..He's been running for 2 years and I've never asked where he was..and if he's only coming around so I don't sleep w/someone else that's utter stupidity on his part.

Is he now just worried that I will meet someone and D him? or is he just wanting to know if he needs to cover his butt if I file?

I'm so confused...talk is out of the ? I wouldn't even know where to begin..nor do I even know what I want anymore..

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ITHURTS:
<strong> I wouldn't even know where to begin..nor do I even know what I want anymore.. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">((((ItHurts))))

You'll have to excuse my mind this morning, it's not quite up to par but I do want you to know that I ain't ignoring you, I just may be a little slow today.

So does anything else matter, if you don't know what you want? And I'm being serious here. When you look at what he was, what he is, and what he could be, what do you see? What is your reality?

As to his behaviour, haven't a clue. If I were guessing I'd say the rumor of you and a boyfriend has thrown him for a loop. Which direction that loop takes him is beyond me. Could be he's doing that whole "I don't want you but don't want anyone else to want you" thing, could be that the rumor hit his "pride/ego", could be that a "moment of clarity" is replacing the fog. But again, could be's don't matter if you don't know what you want. It's like going on a trip, stopping and asking for direction (yes Men can ask), but not knowing the destination.

His behaviour is what it is, sure you have an influence on that, but shift your focus from his actions and focus on you. If you're wanting to keep this fellow then make a mental map to "Get 'er Done" with enough flexibility to allow for life to happen but also strong enough boundaries to know when to "Kick 'em to the Curb". Plant yourself in the driver's seat and hang on for the ride.....

Hurt,

The rumor became a threat! That is what's up. He can play all he wants but when it comes to you, he is loosing and seeing reality. He fears the worst that you are moving on. Is he being nasty?

OK banging going on.

Get back with you soon!

Ali~

Ali88 - I'm leaning towards his sudden "interest" is based solely on his needs - didn't matter when I was begging, crying to save our M. Now that the rumor is out - I too think he's concerned that I'll walk or "take the money and run"...That my dear would be the easy/lazy man's way to sanity again..

He actually asked me out to dinner/drinks last nite - it went ok..Though, all he discussed was how well off we were headed financially..Was that a ploy to keep me in the game???

I need a plan to slowly talk this out - to get the truth from him as to what he wants out life here..I don't know how to start the conversation w/o pushing/demanding too much too soon.

Though, I do have my boundaries in my mind and I know what I need him to do to make things right and maybe even if he can do what I need - I still may have lost too much to regain a true M..One that I want and desire..Again, he may have gone too far and pushed me away too hard. I don't know that yet - I won't know that until we try to have a M..

Lost - </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">So does anything else matter, if you don't know what you want? And I'm being serious here. When you look at what he was, what he is, and what he could be, what do you see? What is your reality?
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I believe .
I lived in "fantasy land" for sooo long that I don't know what my or his reality can be together. I do know that I desire a man that wants/likes the same things I do. I know that I want true intimacy and a friend that I will support and they support me too. I want a man that I and I alone can sexually fulfill. I want a man that isnt' afraid to ask me for what he wants. Am I asking too much????? Again, my faith in men is just about shot...

When I look at what he's done, the many MOW/OW he's been w/ I can't imagine that he can just stop and committ to our M..That he can have no contact w/these women - he can't seem to let go of old flames or sex only partners..

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">but shift your focus from his actions and focus on you. If you're wanting to keep this fellow then make a mental map to "Get 'er Done" with enough flexibility to allow for life to happen but also strong enough boundaries to know when to "Kick 'em to the Curb". Plant yourself in the driver's seat and hang on for the ride.....
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have been focusing on ME..which I think unsettles him too. I only want this "fellow" if he can met all those above qualities.

How much time should I invest to see if he's wanting to change or if this is a ploy to keep me from D and taking 1/2 of everything?

Or is time not the issue - more like "walk the talk baby.."" Show me don't tell me...

Truly, I can't put my heart on my sleeve again..It was knocked off so many times in the past year I can't allow him to make an A## out of me again...I can't continue in this unhealthy relationship.

How do get to the truth?? WHat do you ask??

I feel that if he's more concerned w/what it's gonna cost him - that I am willing to move out, still work at our business and build a new life w/o him. He wouldn't have to write the fat check, at least not right away..Yet, I'd have some peace in my heart. We'd just live separately until one of us decided to marry - then we'd divorce...

ALI SAID “””The rumor became a threat! That is what's up. He can play all he wants but when it comes to you, he is loosing and seeing reality. He fears the worst that you are moving on. Is he being nasty?”””

Could be. Could be. Or it could be that it was a gentle slap in the face that made him look at the situation expecting to see you crying and begging, but guess what you weren’t, we were establishing a life. WOW! There is life without him?

“””He actually asked me out to dinner/drinks last nite - it went ok..Though, all he discussed was how well off we were headed financially..Was that a ploy to keep me in the game???”””

Again, could be dangling that carrot out there or could just be puffing his chest at you a little, trying to show you how attractive he is.

”””I need a plan to slowly talk this out - to get the truth from him as to what he wants out life here..I don't know how to start the conversation w/o pushing/demanding too much too soon.”””

Make sure you know your plan before you worry about his, that way you can ensure that they are going in the same direction.

”””I believe .
I lived in "fantasy land" for sooo long that I don't know what my or his reality can be together.”””

How true that is…. When I looked back at what I lost in my marriage, I realized what I lost was a fantasy/dream that wasn’t there to begin with.

“””I do know that I desire a man that wants/likes the same things I do. I know that I want true intimacy and a friend that I will support and they support me too. I want a man that I and I alone can sexually fulfill. I want a man that isnt' afraid to ask me for what he wants. Am I asking too much?”””

From me, YES!!!! Gurl, I’m engaged….LOL And no you ain’t asking for too much, if anything you ain’t asking for enough. This is a tough one, my heart is telling me that you ain’t never had that and honestly, by what little I know about your cowboy, I don’t know that he can ever give it. It may come down to you making a list of what you have to have, and if he can’t meet it, then he’ll have to beat it.

“””Again, my faith in men is just about shot...”””

I hear you, but let me reassure you that it works both ways. I’ve been to the place where my faith in woman was shot.

”””When I look at what he's done, the many MOW/OW he's been w/ I can't imagine that he can just stop and commit to our M..”””

He can, but the question is will he?

“””I have been focusing on ME..which I think unsettles him too.”””

Yes, I’m sure it does because it cuts right to his ego and believe it or not it probably makes him look at the person he’s hurt the most, himself.

“””How much time should I invest to see if he's wanting to change or if this is a ploy to keep me from D and taking 1/2 of everything?”””

Can’t even begin to answer that.

””””How do get to the truth?? What do you ask??”””

I’m sure you know all the questions to ask, but will he answer them? Can you two talk openly enough to have a conversation about real issues without one side turning aggressive?

”””Yet, I'd have some peace in my heart.”””

I doubt that.

Lost -

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ITHURTS:
<strong> Lost - </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I left you speechless, huh? I have that affect on cowgurls.......

Lost - Screw any plans for talking things out or flippin honesty...
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">How do get to the truth?? What do you ask??”””

I’m sure you know all the questions to ask, but will he answer them? Can you two talk openly enough to have a conversation about real issues without one side turning aggressive?
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">We only had a week tops of not treating each other with blatant hostility..So I go out last nite w/gf's (actually went to a class on Divorce)..when I get home all hell breaks lose..He's angry that I'm out..Yet, I start the conversation as - he's been running for over a year all of a sudden 1 week he's home everynite - w/no conversation as to WHY or explanation of his sudden change..WHat am I supposed to think?? Do, etc???

Where was I? With who? Your never home,etc.etc.
I did not admit to the class - I just said dinner w/my gf's..He blasts back that he's been home he's always home - what a flippin farse...
Yes, I do go out almost everynite to the BARN..Not the bar...he can't seem to separate that - to him it's going out - leaving him behind..Again, that was his choice long ago..

I reiterated why I ever bought a horse and he still doesn't get that the M was missing something huge and rather than my hitting the bars, or having an A - I did from my perspective the "safe thing"...

Anyway - there is no talking - we can't do that..And Yes, I LB...which he told me he's tired of my belittling him..and he's right - it's not that I set out to do this - I just get so frustrated trying to have him see my side and the smoke and mirror game. And how do you not bring up the tramps - they are a part of all this..a part he apparently won't let go of..
I calmly told him I wasn't belittling him - he did that ALL on his own..He picked the wrong MOW/OW to have SF with...I didn't do that..

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I have been focusing on ME..which I think unsettles him too.”””

Yes, I’m sure it does because it cuts right to his ego and believe it or not it probably makes him look at the person he’s hurt the most, himself.
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I told him - I am going out, I am making new friends, if he doesn't want to do things w/me FINE..But, don't expect me to sit home or spend all my time at the barn anymore..Which only infurates him - he's well aware that I am attractive that men are attracted to me. When we were out the other nite one of my gf's husband was there - yes, I introduced my WH to him - when we were leaving he made a comment on how good I looked - was I working out? This guy is younger and maybe my WH viewed this as a threat that I am noticed. That even if he doesn't want me - someone will..
My IC thinks that he feels inferior to me - has/had sexual performance issues w/me,that's another reason for the MOW/OW.

It's quite blatant that his xgf or gf ( I'm never sure of status) at our business will not going anywhere..And that's one of my TOP NEEDS..He still runs and tells her everything and she tells him how to react. Or she bad mouths me and he listens to her..He throws out zingers that would only come from another women - men just don't say/notice these things about women..It's as bad as how I flippin page employees at work - my squeeky/phoney voice..How petty is that??? How OW is that?? It's my flippin voice..I'm sure it grates the hell out of her just as my being at work does- so she makes sure to slam me to him..

I can't believe that this "man" I M - is so controlled by his 25 year old D, loser male friend and his tramps. He did tell me that my belittling him doesn't make him feel like a man and I'm sorry if I make him feel that way. That is NOT my intention - I want him to be a man "in my eyes" by stepping up and living a good clean life. My IC feels that we differ in what we see as "being a man"....IMHO - He sees power, success, money, material objects,women..I see - success, respect,integrity, dignity, strong family values..

But, in the same breath isn't he belittling me by having SF w/MOW/OW? Belittling me to OW to get them to bed? Keeping his xgf/gf at our business? Having many MOW/OW call our business for him? I guess he doesn't see my side at all..I do see parts of his side and I was more than willing to work on recovery - but, it can't be a one sided fix...


So any movement on his part towards me for whatever reason has yet again been smashed to pieces..

Should I tell the truth that I was at a class on divorce? Or is this so not worth it?? I guess I'll stay on the D BB - w/no hope of moving to the Recovery BB..

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ITHURTS:
[QB]Screw any plans for talking things out or flippin honesty... </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Well, now you, once again, know where you are and where he is.

As far as telling him where you were, I'm an honest guy, I always promote honesty. Plus it may do him some good to hear that you where at a divorce class. But for your emotional protection, I probably wouldn't recommend engaging in such conversations as last night again. There is no point.

The facts are in. Make a plan to either live in this marriage or live without this marriage and Get 'Er Done....

Lost - </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">There is no point. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Your right - he's never going to see both sides - if he was selfish enough to hide/feel entitled to Ow - how could I expect him to be honest now or see our situation from any view other than his own.


It's a shame WS don't come to this site or read books, etc. on their A's. I have learnt so much here, thru books, Dr. Phil, etc. about myself, him, relationships - if he had a morsel of the knowledge available it would probably scare him back into reality.LOL
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">The facts are in. Make a plan to either live in this marriage or live without this marriage and Get 'Er Done....
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I can't see planning on staying in this unhealthy relationship - I can't stand the ups/downs. Yes, I'd always hope that he'd change by my sticking it out - but each day I have less hope the battles only get louder and more emotionally damaging..

I guess I need to plan on moving out. It will be tough since I'll still have to work at our business everyday w/him - but, I'm starting to see that living w/him is tough too there are just too many bad days. As another poster said - when the pain of staying out weights the pain of going,,that's when you know it's time to go..

I'm feeling that pain....

HUGS

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by ITHURTS:
<strong> I'm feeling that pain....</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">All I can say is ((((((ITHURTS)))))).....

Reality sometimes just plain sucks.... In your case, the decision is being made for you, IMHO.

And again, quite honestly we could sit here all day and say he won't do X, Y, or Z but the focus of our attention should be, ITHURTS will not tolerate X, Y, & Z because she is a wonderful person who deserves a wonderful life.....

I better shut-up before I get all up on my soapbox and start preaching to you about not letting him control your emotions blah blah blah.......

Hugs, Thoughts, & Prayers

Lost </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">In your case, the decision is being made for you, IMHO.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Certainly it is...It would be easier if he would just file for the D..But, right now I don't see that in the cards. He'll let me be the one to "leave"..He can flip it back too - It was her choice...not mine..Again, he should step up and do the right thing..Even his guy friends have told him that..Do right by her..

Maybe he only has the ba@@! to cheat not leave me..He'll tell me - I won't find anyone as good as him - or the places I've been going don't have good men..PLEASE..He's the one that's been cheating for 2 years (that he'll admit to) APPRAENTLY, HE CAN'T FIND ANYONE BETTER THAN ME..OR HE'D HAVE BEEN GONE..RIGHT?????? If these women are soooo great - why is he still living w/me??? If they are so worth it - aren't they worth the big check he needs to write me..

Believe me - If I was sooo "In Love" I wouldn't care how big a check I had to write to gain happiness - I'd be gone..That's his problem he's in Lust not Love. He knows he's only using them ..Yes, they are wrecking havoc on his homelife - but, he can deal w/that..

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">ITHURTS will not tolerate X, Y, & Z because she is a wonderful person who deserves a wonderful life.....
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And I've given this speech a few times lately..

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">not letting him control your emotions blah blah blah.......
</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial"> </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">That's HIS current problem - he's losing more control of ME and MY EMOTIONS..That's the only reason this dogs been sniffin around lately..He probably thought, I'd be home last nite and make dinner - since he's been a good dog lately..I gotta have a better reason to pat the dog that's bitten me more than once..I NEED MORE...and he's not about to roll over..

This is one tough M...I never in my wildest dreams thought my life could end up this screwed up - never thought, "exposure" could coz someone to get worse....

Thank God he's "fixed" or it could be worse...

Hugs

Hugs

<img border="0" title="" alt="[Mad]" src="images/icons/mad.gif" /> why !

<small>[ March 17, 2005, 12:52 PM: Message edited by: Ali88 ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">“””I do know that I desire a man that wants/likes the same things I do. I know that I want true intimacy and a friend that I will support and they support me too. I want a man that I and I alone can sexually fulfill. I want a man that isnt' afraid to ask me for what he wants. Am I asking too much?””” </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Heck no! I am with you there honey! I want a new start. I think I have learned so much about what my needs are that I am ready to start a new life. I think you too. Sometimes the water under the bridge is too high.

OK back to rereading this thread! I got lost somewhere down the line! You guys go to fast!! Wait up! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Ali~

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">“””I do know that I desire a man that wants/likes the same things I do. I know that I want true intimacy and a friend that I will support and they support me too. I want a man that I and I alone can sexually fulfill. I want a man that isnt' afraid to ask me for what he wants. Am I asking too much?””” </font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Heck no! I am with you there honey! I want a new start. I think I have learned so much about what my needs are that I am ready to start a new life. I think you too. Sometimes the water under the bridge is too high.

OK back to rereading this thread! I got lost somewhere down the line! You guys go to fast!! Wait up! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

Ali~