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Joined: Sep 2000
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(insert vent here)

Hrrrrrrrrmph!

I am so pissed off right now. As you all may know by now, I finally found a guy whom I had a HUGE crush on, who also had a HUGE crush back. It was pretty fun because for the first time in a long time I felt like, "Hey, you know what? Maybe I really COULD meet a decent man and fall in love again! Just maybe."

Yeah well...

So we are getting along GREAT, either spending time together or writing or IM-ing or calling all the time...you know, that fun beginning stuff. And there's been some really good discussions about our life histories and what we believe and just EVERYTHING, so it's not like this is just having fun--there's some depth there too, which I found impressive! And in the course of life, there were some things happening in his life that were worrying him and kinda stressing and bringing him down (oh you know...single parent stuff...living paycheck to paycheck--that stuff we all worry about), and today was a great day. Today, several of those worries got put to rest and if not completely solved, at least resolved for now. Plus, there were just some neat things that occurred--happy things--and I was thinking, "YAY! We get to celebrate!!" I even said that OUT LOUD--that I was looking forward to celebrating together.

That's where it goes haywire and I am venting. He goes out and buys a nice local brew and drinks most of a 6-pack himself! By the time I get there (which we had discussed about 7pm), he's the seven dwarves: loopy, goofy, tipsy, woopsy, giggly, sleepy, and doc. Okay--it's kind of cute and this doesn't happen often, and he finally had a good day and was happy...and then within about 30-45 minutes of me getting there, he falls asleep. Has NO CLUE that I'm there or not there--completely sound asleep!

AARRGHH!!! I'm glad he had a good day, but he took and US celebration and celebrated on his own and cut me out completely!! I feel so cheated! I also feel like I don't even exist. I specifically MADE TIME to celebrate and be with him tonight, and I won't be able to tomorrow, and what does he do? Blow me off!

I'm just SICK of love! Isn't there ever a day when love behaves lovingly and there isn't hurting going on??? AARRGGHH!!!

(end of vent)

Thanks for listening.


FNCJ

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Dear CJ,

And the problem is???????????? [Confused] [Confused] [Confused]

I must apologize, as I read your post, I sat here giggling like a school girl! OH, OH, OH, how many times did I pull that number my own self!

Back in my drinking days, I had this fantasy of being in a ski lodge with a wall to wall fireplace. And of course there was this voluptous female who was going to take advantage of my beautiful pink Irish body and seduce me with a six pack of (name your brand here).

Of course, it never worked out that way. I wound up in some gin mill in the worst part of town, sitting next to some beast that you wouldn't be caught dead with, and ...................... I got turned down! [Big Grin] [Big Grin] [Big Grin]

That was the really sad part. Given the choice between whiskey and women, whiskey always won out. Of course, I didn't have a problem, I was just a happy, loveable, good ole boy have a little fun. (Or a drunken slob, to be more precise.)

Sweetie, I think there were three reasons why I gave up drinking. Your friend sounds like ten of them.

He goes out and buys a nice local brew and drinks most of a 6-pack himself! By the time I get there (which we had discussed about 7pm), he's the seven dwarves: loopy, goofy, tipsy, woopsy, giggly, sleepy, and doc.

The text books have a name for that phenomena, it is called loss of control. That isn't a red flag, that is "Maggies Drawers" waving in the breeze in front of you. The next time you talk to him you will get probably get introduced to his intrepretation of guilt, remorse and fear. Betcha he apologizes profusely and promises that it will never happen again.

Pardon me while I quote my ex wife: "Go get your father out of the car, he's drunk again!" (If I never hear that command again, it will be just fine.)

Just a note of caution here, it is pretty common for us to shake off one dependant relationship only to become involved in another.

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{CJ}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

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{{{{{ CJ }}}}}

OK. I won't bother with the note of caution, since Bumperii did a much better job of it than I could have. But it also seems possible that this was an exceptional situation. Stress can cause people to do atypical things, but so can the sudden relief of stress.

I see this as a timely opportunity. In any relationship, people will make mistakes. How both of you handle the situation and the ensuing conflict (because I presume that you will be telling this guy how you felt about his actions) should be very revealing. You need to know this about each other, and better now than later. And there is no way to learn it without going right through the middle of it.

Not, perhaps, as enjoyable an experience as an "US celebration," but in the end perhaps more beneficial.

Even so... {{{{{{{ CJ }}}}}}}

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Hi CJ -- I'm really sorry about the lousy time. And I'm also really glad that this happened now, when you have a better chance of managing your own emotions and boundaries and getting the heck out of the way rather than being hurt again.

Bumperii really pegged it. If this is a guy who chose beer over you, well, it sounds like he's not nearly as wonderful as you originally thought. No harm no foul (except to your emotions, of course); the answer is a firm "No thanks, I'm not interested in that again."

And thanks, too, for the reminder that the early part of a relationship is -supposed- to be a time of caution and careful exploration of what a person is like in many situations and circumstances. I needed it in my own life. [Smile]

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Okay, okay, CJ got THAT vent out of the way. [Razz]

Now, is Mr. Crush aware yet, 1.) that you are mad at him, and 2.) why you are mad?

About 4-5 months into our relationship, I learned that Westley is about completely worthless if he drinks liquor. The next day I told him, "I don't mind you doing it when we aren't together, but I don't want you to drink liquor when I'm going to be around, because it makes you about completely worthless."

And he doesn't, and we are fine. If he has a few beers, we are fine. If he's going to have more than a few beers (at a party or out with the guys), I know in advance. If he's going to have liquor, it's probably at his buddies' house and I'm not a part of whatever celebration it might be. I think that has happened maybe twice in the past four years, for example when his buddies' divorce was final.

I'd like to hear his side before I run "Maggies Drawers" up the flagpole, CJ. [Big Grin]

If he passed out after 4-5 beers, can I assume he's not much of a drinker?

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Well--one little vent and look who shows up! The grouchy old man on the park bench! Hi Bumper!! [Big Grin] ((((((((Bumper))))))))) Have I told you lately how glad I am to have a dusty old friend like you?

Old dude, you wrote some good things:
quote:
The text books have a name for that phenomena, it is called loss of control. That isn't a red flag, that is "Maggies Drawers" waving in the breeze in front of you. The next time you talk to him you will get probably get introduced to his interpretation of guilt, remorse and fear. Betcha he apologizes profusely and promises that it will never happen again.
Well, the image of Maggie's Drawers up the flagpole certainly was refreshing. You have a wonderful way with imagery (shiver). Heehee. Anyway, to jump right into the issue, yeah--that's about what I was thinking too. This isn't a red flag--it's undies up the flagpole, which shook me.

Like you, I also envisioned the tearful apology and the promises. God I HATE those empty promises: "I'm so sorry. It will never happen again! How can I make it up to you?" BLECH! Bumper, you know the M I was in before...every third day was an apology for tearing me to shreds the night before!! Yes, I'm probably fairly skeptical, but I just don't believe those promises AT ALL!!! Here's what I honestly think they mean: "I made the choice to do something that hurt you, and now I want the Get Out Of Jail Free card." What I WISH would happen is stop making that dumb decision and when the chance comes up to do something that hurts me or not, choose to NOT HURT ME! Don't apologize after--don't do it in the first place!!

Okay, so before I even talked to him, I did do a check of my own self. I've gotten that far at least, you grouchy old fart. I looked over the situation and decided: #1--That I was not willing to be in a R where I was competing against any kind of alcohol or drug. I'm not willing to be involved in that, and I'd MUCH rather be alone. #2--That mistakes do happen and everyone occasionally does something idiotic (yep--even me), so it's reasonable to wait, see how he reacts, and make my decisions then. #3--That I need to have some huge caution flags in my head looking out for my own tendencies to get into a codependent R--and make sure that as I do make decisions, they're based on HEALTHY choices and not old habits I'm trying to change.

quote:
Just a note of caution here, it is pretty common for us to shake off one dependant relationship only to become involved in another.
OH, MAN, do I know this! That's why I felt so shook up!! God, Bumper, of everyone in the world you should know that I wholeheartedly DO NOT want to go back into that kind of R. I took a lot of time trying to figure out what actual healthy, respectful R were like, and well what can I say? I thought this was a good prospect...but I'm also willing to say I could have had the wool pulled over my eyes.

* * * * *

GDP—

Have you ever had one of those moments when you realize someone is a great friend and has been for the LONGEST time? This is you. I remember one fun thing you'll get a kick out of...a long time ago, someone behind a veil, not wanting to be revealed. Remember that? I TOLD you I'd wait and wasn't in any rush! ((GDP's little wooden hug)).

I really trust you and your judgment, so what you wrote really hit home with me:

quote:
But it also seems possible that this was an exceptional situation. Stress can cause people to do atypical things, but so can the sudden relief of stress.

I see this as a timely opportunity. In any relationship, people will make mistakes. How both of you handle the situation and the ensuing conflict (because I presume that you will be telling this guy how you felt about his actions) should be very revealing.

As usual, what you wrote in your little Thinker manner was probably closest to what I was thinking in my head too—after I settled my little stirred up Feeler self. I have known this fella for several months now, first as an acquaintance, then friend, and then romantically, and when I tried to stop my own inner spinning I was able to remember that this is very atypical. I think that’s part of why it caught me by such a surprise. The whole time I’ve known this guy I don’t remember ever seeing him drink ANYTHING, much less getting messed up, and much less having this be a consistent pattern. In an awful way, I think this was one of those, “OMG, I had such a good day, I’m going to get a beer—haven’t had a beer in forever” and then just going overboard. Nope, he’s pretty much a lightweight and has about as much tolerance as I do for alcohol—which is none. But what really threw me for a loop is that nagging feeling of doubt…could I possibly have missed it or been fooled?

I’ll tell you how we ended up handling it, but I have a good question for you GDP, since I trust your counsel: what do you think would be a wise, respectful, healthy way to handle an incident like this? I’m thinking stating what occurred, what I thought (including stuff like stating boundaries), what I felt, and then making a request of what would work for me…maybe saying what WOULDN’T work for me too. Does that sound like a somewhat reasonable way for me to proceed? And what would a healthy response from him look like? BTW, just so you know, I have my own ideas of what I think, but in addition to helping me be clear, I bet it would be helpful to other MB’ers or lurkers to read this stuff too.

* * * * *
J—

Hey, lady. It’s good to hear from you. You wrote something I want to ask you about:

quote:
the answer is a firm "No thanks, I'm not interested in that again."
At first when I read that, I thought you were basically saying to walk away and say, “Seeya!” and I was a little surprised at the finality of that after one mistake…a pretty BIG mistake, but a mistake nonetheless. Then I thought about it a little…and here’s the question part. Did you really mean that detached boundary enforcement thing of saying, “I am not interested in being in a life that involves being 2nd to alcohol, or being left alone at night to be followed by those empty apologies and promises. If that’s the life you choose, then I can’t stop you but I won’t be with you. If that’s not the life you choose, then your words and actions are going to have to match pretty straight for a while.”??

You also wrote:
quote:
And thanks, too, for the reminder that the early part of a relationship is -supposed- to be a time of caution and careful exploration of what a person is like in many situations and circumstances. I needed it in my own life.
Hey chick, no problem! Borrow from my life lessons in the School of Hard Knocks any day! And BTW, just between us does that mean you are cautiously and carefully exploring?? [Wink]

* * * * *
Princess Buttercup—

First, have I told you lately how much I love your movie? Heehee. Oh, chick, you and I are living parallel lives, I think sometimes. That’s why I love your common sense, practical type of response. You asked some good, straight to the point questions, so here ya go:

quote:
Now, is Mr. Crush aware yet, 1.) that you are mad at him, and 2.) why you are mad?
Yep. Mr. Crush was aware that I was mad at him pretty much as it was occurring, because I’m not a conflict avoiding type of gal. I spoke with him about it, and I wrote to him too because I can write more effectively than I can speak. And Yep, Mr. Crush knows why I was mad. Now, it took ME a little while to get that exactly narrowed down to a succinct couple of sentences, but I did get there. #1-I felt second to alcohol, and won’t live like that. #2-OUR time was turned into no time, and I won’t live like that either. #3-I felt cut out and like I didn’t register on his radar, and I won’t live like that either! I even got to a point of recognizing that some of the reaction I had was concern over whether this was a red flag of being in a relationship like I had with my ExH. That shook me up, but I think it was a fairly reasonable response given what has happened.

quote:
I'd like to hear his side before I run "Maggies Drawers" up the flagpole, CJ. If he passed out after 4-5 beers, can I assume he's not much of a drinker?
Yeah—you’d be correct there Princess. Okay, I’ll ask him to come on and write his side (for your general amusement—heehee) and yeah, he’s at least as lightweight as I am when it comes to drinking…a 6-pack can last me MONTHS! I like your idea about having our time be alcohol-free or at least something we agree to (like I could see drinking a glass of wine together), and if he’s going to have more than 1 or 2 drinks, that I know about it in advance and don’t really want to be involved. Of course, my next thought is if it’s once or twice a year like your Westley, I’m cool with that, but if it turns into a pattern—that wouldn’t work for me.

Thanks again, everyone for your thoughts and ideas. Hugs would also be good [Wink]


FNCJ


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