CD:<P>It should be YOUR call, not hers. And even not his.<P>Under the circumstances, he should acquiesce to your wishes. He created this hurtful situation and to repair the damage and promote your healing, he should allow you to accompany him to the OW's house. <P>Sure, she knows he goes home to you. But, without seeing you and your husband together as a united front, she can delude herself that you aren't real and that she has a chance with your spouse. Just seeing him without you even though she knows he lives with you, can set the stage for a dangerous situation.<P>I hope he will reconsider.<P>Catnip =^^=

Hi everybody:<BR>I have finally got a chance to come back to our support group. I have been studying for finals and I just got back my old job. I have been preoccupied with everything else but now finals are over and I can get back to my most supportive friends. I think about everybody here all the time. After reading some of the new most I see that we have grown. Today I am having a bad day is a matter of fact all week. I find myself getting angry all over again and I know that is not healthy. I talk to me H about doing something about the OC. I feel that I should be a part of OC's life but I am afraid that I will get angry all over again knowing what my H has done. I go through days thinking that I should be a part of the O.C. life so that my husband won't think that he has to sneak around to see the OC. He promised me a couple of years ago that he wouldn't see the OC without me being present but I found out doing Spring Break that he did visit the OC with my oldest daughter. My daughter hated keeping that secret but she felt that she had to go to make sure her dad wouldn't betray me again. We almost split up over the incident. And I told my husband if he want's this marriage to survive he has to be totally honest with me when he wants to see the OC. I gave him another chance. He said that the reason he visited the OC without me knowing was because he was afraid that I would get upset and want to leave him and he said he couldn't live without me. We had 2 weeks of turmoil again. I have told my husband over and over again that I will accept the OC if he really wants me to. But it seems like he doesn't want me to be involved. What am I to do. It seems that our marriage is going to survive sometimes and there is other times that I wish I could just get out of it so I wouldn't have to deal with him or his OC again. But something always tells me that he loves me with all his heart and to trust him with my emotions. We talked about seperating after this incident but he broke down in tears and told me that he couldn't live without me being part of his life. He promised me again that he would have no contact with this child w/o me. And I believed him. But sometimes when he is late from work I go out looking for his car and OW and OC's car. Is a matter of fact H was 45 min late coming home from work and I was taking my daughter somewhere and I proceded to go down the road that he left and I asked my daughter if a car that we had seen belonged to OW we weren't close enought so I speeded up to check the car out and my daughter told me it wasn't OW's car it was just the same color. How can I go on like this suspicious of everything my husband does? And if he is still seeing the OC how am I going to catch him.<BR>I had posted something a few days ago I told everybody that I was doing great but for some reason I am feeling bad again.<P>------------------<BR>sadgirl

sadgirl,<P>I am so sorry that you are once again going through the turmoil. The more I read about the men sneaking around to see the OC, the more worried I am getting. My H still works with the OW, so it wouldn't be that hard to see the OC if he wanted to. I of course am told over and over that he wants no involvement. But with being so fresh I have to take everything with a grain of salt. <P>I hope that you can find some comfort in your feelings. Hopefully your husband can be honest with you. I know it sounds like he loves you, but you need the honesty. Tomorrow is a new week, hope you have a good holiday. Keep your chin up. <P>babstr.

CD<BR>Welcome to our community we are all here to help eachother out so that we don't go through the anxiety by ourselves. We all need each other to stay sane in this world of hurt and dishonesty. We all love our H's very much but it is really hard to forgive and forget.<BR>As our other friends in this community I do want to know how you dealt with bringing the OC out in the open with family and friends. The reason I chose to keep it a secret is because my loving family would probably hate my H for doing what he did. I have only told my youngest brother and he told me that whatever decision I make he will back me up. But I know my other brothers and sister would hate my H for doing what he did to me. They probably would hold it against him and cause turmoil withing my family. There is nothing worse then your family hating the person you love. Please tell me how your family reacted to this situation. Do they accept the OC and treat it like their own niece or nephew does your mom and dad treat it like their own grandchild. I know my H's family accepted it because they to kept it a secret from me. H's mother has the OC's picture plastered all over her wall. I hate her for doing that so my children never want to see her again and they don't want their photos next to the OC's photos. I don't know if my H's mother is doing that to hurt me and my family. My H really doesn't approve of it either. I asked my H why is she doing that to me and my daghters. And he replied by saying the OC is her grandchild too. I have never spoke to H's mother since then and my daghters hate her also. And I don't think that I can disclose this OC to my loving family. Is that wrong of me to do that? Still hurting hopefully the week will bring more happiness in my life. <BR>Love you all<BR><P>------------------<BR>sadgirl

Sadgirl & Babstr<P>I really insisted that my H got everything in black and white - meaning partial custody of OC. I didn't know if would ready for that, but I thought it would eliminate the need to sneak to see OC. Maybe it's something you can think about. He finally did get partial custody. <BR>The first time he brought the OC over it was very difficult for me. It was hard to look at OC. As time went on, it became easier and easier. Now when the OC comes over, he looks for me.<BR>What I didn't get from my H was a 3rd party drop off so he wouldn't have to deal with OW again, and he still won't allow me in the car when he picks up OC. Maybe things will change. I'll have to pray about it.<P>Does anyone know Harvey's opinion on this?

AAAAARRRRGHHH!<P>I hate this freaking internet. It kicked me off line after one of my standard lengthy postings to you!!! <P>So. Because I hate to repeat myself, the gist of what I was saying before I was so rudely interrrupted was;<P>CD: (condensed version) Harley's POJA would not condone the OW to have power over you or your spouse with her mandates as to the 3rd party pick up/drop off situation, nor would Harley condone your spouse not allowing you to join him for pick up and drop off. I am fairly confident that Harley would see this as a red flag or as a disresptful treatment going against MB principles..<P>Sadgirl:<P>I am so glad you are back and glad to know you were absent fromthe forum because of finals! <P>The bad news is that you will have days when you're feeling pretty good, you'll have a better frame of mind, things won't be haunting you much and you'll feel like you are making remarkable progress only to suddenly crash and burn without much trigger action--a name, a mention, a song, who knows what sets us back.<P>The GOOD news is that this is normal and cyclical and that these cycles become less frequent with time (I'm sure you have already noticed this) and the pain less intense. <P>I bragged about my spouse only to have him become his raging and jealous evil twin the next day. It was a little like 'behavior modification' for me...I won't say anything nice about him for a long time for fear I'll jinx myself. Then the next day, he was contrite, ashamed and remorseful for being so hateful and suddenly he is sweet again.<P>The specific issues that must be addressed will loose their power over you and your moods once you and your husband have made the necessary decisions together under the POJA.<P>If ONLY they would adhere to the POJA, everyone concerned would become closer and able to move forward together. It is in their own best interest to enter into this agreement.<P>Catnip =^^=

Everyone:<BR>I love all of you guys you are the greatest to me in the time of need. I hope this week is better but already this morning my H and I argued over some stupid thing. He went off to work without saying goodbye to me. But I am hoping things will get better. Today is Monday I hope my dilema comes to an end. My baby is graduating from HS on June 9 in preparing for the special occasion hopefully I will be preoccupied with the blessed event and not dwell to much on our problems. I will post if I can't handle the next two weeks.<BR>Love ya<P>------------------<BR>sadgirl

Catnip<BR> <BR> Well Said!<P>Sadgirl,<P> I accepted the OC. It took a while, but I finally did. At first I couldn't even look at him without feeling I would break down. Now, I feed him, help my H bathe and dress him. <BR> I believe my boys accepted him because I did. I think they were waiting to see how I would treat him first. My family respected my wish to work on my marriage. They don't treat my H any diffently than before. My mother has been over to see OC. Maybe out of curiosity? Probably, because she doesn't give him gifts or anything like she does for my boys. When I say my family, I'm talking mother, brother, and first cousins on my mother's side. (My father's deceased.) <BR>No one else knows.<BR> How did your MIL get those pictures? Through your H? I hope not. Like Catnip said, if only the H's would honor the POJA.

Hi Everyone!<BR>It is the end of the week and I still feel pretty bad. My H and I are doing okay but I am still angry at him. All of our Income Tax money was taken by Child Support. I was depending on that money to help with my baby's grad party but it seems I am going to be without the extra cash I am so glad that I am working again. I had to go back to work full time and put my education on hold again because the money that is taken out of my H's check for child support is causing so much financial difficulties that we almost lost our home a few months ago. I had to borrow from my closest cousin. Why do I have to deal with so much stress because I chose to stay with my H. I keep on telling myself that our marriage will survive but it seems that survival is wearing me down. Another thing that bothers me so much is the OW just got her Bachelors degree because she was able to go to school full time and the state paid for it because she was a single mother. I have always wanted to get my BA but it is going to take so long that by the time I finish school I will probably be old enough to retire. Why does this problem affect every aspect of my life such as my love for my H, education, financial and me as a person. How am I going to survive in the years to come. I hope soon I will be strong enough to forget about this whole ordeal. As I said in my last post I hope this week would end on a better note. But it didn't. I will go through the next week in concentrating on my baby's High School Grduation and party. This is a time for me to be happy and celebrate the accomplishment my daughter will endure and the accomplishment I have made in raising her to become a positive indvidual and a role model she has presented among her peers. I will post again if I have time. But you know my heart is among my most supportive friends. Love you all. Have a good week. <P>------------------<BR>sadgirl

sadgirl,<P>My heart goes out to you. I feel the same way with having to put my happiness on hold while the OW lives it up with our living money. But I want to try and send positive energy to you. Look to your child to lift your spirits this week. I know that this problem seems to over shadow everything. But you want to write these memories down in concrete, her graduation is a bridge from childhood to adulthood, and you helped her build it. Her accomplishment is yours also. You provided the love to keep her moving towards her goals. Try to set aside the worst parts of your life, and strive to look at her smiling face. I still think of my graduation night, like it was magical, and the party that my parents gave me was the last time all of my friends were together. I talk like it was yesterday, that is how vivid it is in my mind.<P>I hope you can find some comfort in these words. You are a strong woman, you can rise above the mess, and look ahead. I hope this week is better for you. I am sure your daughter will love and appreciate everything that you do for her. Being appreciated and loved can make you feel better. Your in my thoughts. Tell your daughter congratulations!! WOW, CLASS of 2000, first of the century, that makes it even more special. <P>babstr.

Well said Babstr! Sadgirl, we had a partial eclipse here last year, or a few years back, and everything was this odd sepia-gray color. Living organisms that were normally so bright and vivacious--flowers, children, birds--were muted by this gloomy filter. I know that's how your life appears nowadays, and it seems as if it's as impossible to remove the filter as it is to stop an eclipse, but try to see the best parts of your life in full color. Your daughter will have other graduations in her life, college, etc., and at that time you will be in a better frame of mind, but she will only have one high school graduation. Let her (and yourself) have memories of your unfiltered happiness. It's a great event. The hustle and bustle of party arrangements should keep your mind on a positive track. Take care of yourself.

Hi Everybody!<BR>I am back again. I think the last time I posted was May 28th almost two months ago.<BR>How is everybody doing? As for me I had my baby's graduation party it was a success accept some adults in my family including my Sis and Sis in law. But my daughter rose above it all and had a good time anyway. As for myself I am doing much better. I think I will survive knowing that my H has a OC. He still says that I am his whole reason for living and that he thanks God everyday that the strenght of our love keeps us together. My H tells me at times that he is so sorry for what he did. He breaks down in tears at times because of the hurt he has caused me. When he breaks down it makes me feel better knowing that he is suffering too. I tell him that we can't undo the past and I will always feel betrayed. He never talks about seeing the OC after our argument about him seeing the OC behind my back. I know he wonders about the OC but I feel that he doesn't want to jeopardize our recovery and he doesn't mention us seeing the OC again. But how can a father ignore a childs existence. Yea he pays every month and I try to tell him to share custody so he wouldn't have to pay so much child support but he would rather pay then have me see the child on a regular basis. Am I being unfair to him by accepting his decision I really don't want to see the OC but if it is going to lower child support I would cooperate. What should I do? Well I better go for now but I will come back to this group more often now.<P>------------------<BR>sadgirl

sadgirl,<P>I wondered where you went. I am glad everything went well with your daughter's graduation party. And I am happy to hear that things are moving along with the OC problem. Good to have you back.<P>babstr

Sadgirl:<P>Well, I was wondering where you went. I'm glad you're OK and that your daughter's party went well.<P>I am concerned because you seem to want contact with the OC only to bring down the support payments instead of for the benefit of your husband's possible desire toward the OC. <BR>If you cannot accept or tolerate the presence of the OC, don't have the OC around you. It would torment you too much, your husband may get more attached and the OC would sense that someone didn't want it around so it wouldn't be fair to anyone involved. <BR>If it's just about money, it isn't worth it if your talking just a few bucks, besides, the way the laws are today, you might not get any kind of a significant 'break' in support reduction...ask Bystander.<P>Sadgirl, you are so fortunate to have your husband home where he belongs, working hard to make thing up to you and so remorseful...let sleeping dogs lie. Don't encourage the relationship of the OC unless you are healed and ready to accept that child into your life for then rest of your life.<P>Take care<P>Catnip =^^=

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jenny:<BR><B>I agree with 'trying' here, CD. The XOW's feelings should not be your H's concern here. He's got his priorities mixed up...</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Hi, I'm new here. In my case the OC hasn't been born yet, and paternity has not been established. He wants nothing to do with OW or OC even if it is his, because of the way she trapped him. She is not the type to let this stand. If he goes to pick up this child after paternity says its his, I will be there, just to rub it in OW's face that I am the one he loves, and I am the one who carries his name, and it will never be her. <BR>

Hi Ktgirl!<P>Welcome - if that's appropriate.<P>Although H treats me good, he still doesn't see that he was trapped. (I gave up arguing about that.) Since your H sees that he was trapped , your struggle should not be as difficult as mine.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CD:<BR><B>Hi Ktgirl!<P>Welcome - if that's appropriate.<P>Although H treats me good, he still doesn't see that he was trapped. (I gave up arguing about that.) Since your H sees that he was trapped , your struggle should not be as difficult as mine.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Hi,<P> My H is treating me real good too, because he knows I'm still pretty raw. Sometimes, I really want to make things work, other times, he can do even the least little thing to annoy me, and I want to tear his head off. <BR> He never wanted a child, specifically told her that, and she did it anyway. Of course, she's not the only one to blame, if he'd kept it zipped this never would have happened. I'm in one of my grumpy moods right now, because he's expecting me to spend every minute with him I can, but we are still technically seperated, living apart. I guess this is a second courtship period. I've gotten used to going my own way during the seperation, and right now he's really needy I guess. I feel less than sympathetic. I do love him, I just need some time to sort this out, and we can't talk about it because he gets upset. If he would help, talk to me, I wouldn't be so upset anymore. I wish he'd understand that. I'm trying, and I hope it will work out. <BR>

Ktgirl,<P>Hi!<P>H didn't want to talk about it either, but the counselor made him see that talking about it is part of the healing process. We don't talk about what happened now, but when it was new to me I had to talk about for my own sanity. The A was in 96. OC was born in 97. H didn't tell me about it until about a month before OC was born.<BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CD:<BR><B>Ktgirl,<P>Hi!<P>H didn't want to talk about it either, but the counselor made him see that talking about it is part of the healing process. We don't talk about what happened now, but when it was new to me I had to talk about for my own sanity. The A was in 96. OC was born in 97. H didn't tell me about it until about a month before OC was born.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Hi CD,<BR> Unfortunately for me, I have had plenty of advance notice. I get hit with this "pregnancy" right after he confessed to me that he had cheated. I don't know. I printed out copies of the "Emotional Needs" questionnaire, as well as the "Love Busters", and we spend a lot of today going over it. I was quite pleased, because H hates to read, has problems comprehending due to past head injuries, but we went through the Emotional Needs one together today, and it gave us each insight into the other. That he did this alone tells me how badly he wants things to work out. It's going to take a lot of work, but thanks to this site, I think we've got a good chance to make it. I can come on and vent when I need to, and find new things to help us get through this. A lot of people on other boards have not understood why I don't divorce H, "Once a cheat, always a cheat" has been thrown at me more times than I can count, but I truly believe this relationship is worth fighting for. The love is still there, we just have to wade through all the emotions to get to it. I will hold out and hold on until it becomes apparent that there's nothing to hold on to. All these other people, they just don't understand. If you're not in the situation, it's cut-and-dried, but when you love someone, and have to deal with this, it's not all that easy to walk away. Maybe someday, people will understand that. Here's to better days for everyone on the board. You have all been so supportive, and that is really what I need right now.<BR>

Hi!<P>Good for you! You have to follow your own heart. It's so easy for others to give negative advice when they haven't walked in your/our shoes.<P>