Hi board. I'd like to introduce myself. I'm a thirty something mom of 2 who has been married to the love of her life over a decade. My love graciously shared the news of his affair (and told me it was over of course) two weeks before I discovered that I too had news...I was finally pregnant again! How wonderful it was for me to have thoughts of my H entangled with that whore juxtaposed over the thoughts of my baby to be. I can never thank him enough for that. Lo and behold, several weeks later I discovered that the ended affair did not end, and was treated to the news that his whore was also with child...and wanted to keep it. She was exited in fact. BTW, she knew that I was pregnant as well. So here we were, both pregnant by a man among men. He decided that he had enough of his piece of a**, she became too complicated for him then, I suppose. He wanted to maintain status quo and begged me to let him stay. For many reasons, I consented, but as they say, nothing is written in stone. <P>To make what could be an epic short, I had my baby, then she had hers. When she finally got it through her thick, thick fog of delusion that my H did not want anything to do with her or her child(as he told her from day 1), she retaliated by hauling him to court, where they eventually drained him dry, our expenses nonwithstanding. Oh, did I mention that she makes twice the money I do? Our bills cannot get paid, and I am seriously, very seriously, questioning whether I want to stay in this marriage, having to still cook, clean, be chief babysitter and bottlewasher, be all wifey in general, AND work my butt off to suppliment the whore's deduction, while she reaps the benifit of my H's labor and doesn't have to wash so much as one of his socks, or even boil water for him.<P>What say you panel? How do I deal with this huge loss of finance, because THIS will be the straw that breaks the camel's back.

Yikes! You didn't say anything about still loving him or what the relationship is like now.<P>I'd feel really resentful too if I were in your shoes. I don't think I could support some whore's child with my hard work while my child suffers. If it's purely financial, I'd say look out for your own.<P>But that doesn't address the relationship issue.What does your heart say?

I agree Popeye. There's lots to be angry about here and no one will blame a spouse for feeling they have to leave this kind of situation. However, if you've stayed this long, there must be something valuable to you in the relationship. What say, Polly?

Like Tina says, "What's love got to do with it?" Yes, I love him very much, but what kind of fool does that make me? I'm so torn. I love him, the kids love him, but it's sooo hard to live with this betrayal, compounded by the fact that he will have to pay such a large amount of money each and every week for the next 20 years. <P>My H couldn't be nicer. He's bearing the brunt of my rage while keeping a stiff upper lip. Actually, he is acting more like the man I married, and that's what's making it so hard to get up and go. If he was being a pig, the decision would be a lot easier. He wants no contact with the OW or her child at all. He just mails the check. So. On the one hand I love him and want to keep our family together, but on the other, I question whether I can tolerate the financial blow, the knowledge that this child exists, the infidelity, and the OC's 'cheering section' who try to give us the guilts because my husband chooses not to be a part of its life. How do I stay with him and not feel like some type desparate, pathetic loser who can't do better than to stay in a relationship in which the man fathers other babies during a pregnancy, or a witch who is actually glad that my H wants nothing to do with the poor 'innocent child'? <P>I guess I watch too much TV and it does influence me to a degree. I've seen many situations of children of infidelity on 'Divorce Court' and in each of the cases, the judge tells the women that they must not love themselves to put up with such nonsense. If I stay, do I not love myself? I'll tell you, on the outside looking in, leaving a man who did this to you seems like the only acceptable option. When you're in the inside of this, you realize how hard it actually is to make that decision. How long did it take for you guys to decide?

Polly<BR> I got a little excited reading you story, why because it is my exact same story. Although the OW in my situation just filed four months ago wants money, the kid is alreay two. Other than that the same situation. I totally understand everything, I swear you sound like just like me. I too was pregnant at the same time. I quit my job to stay home with our daughter, now I find this out. The child support that we are going to have to pay is going to put us in the poor house also. We can't pay our bills, and there is no money for food. Do the courts care, no way. My husband also does not want any contact. I of course only found out about the betrayal, because she went for child support. Otherwise I would have never known. The courts are also showing no mercy because this OC was born four months before my daughter. This OW has done this before, she had one other child from the same situation. I understand everything you are feeling.<P>I too am trying to figure out what I am going to do. I don't think I should have to go back to work and put my child in daycare because of this. My husband is in the military so it makes it close to impossible for him to work a second job. Plus the amount is outrageous. He would need a $18,000 raise to make up the difference, just so we could break even. <P>Just like you my husband has been very supportive, and loves me and my daughter. He is the man I married. And he is in pain with the decisions he made in his life. I want you to keep posting it will help. I still can't believe how much we sound alike. I know a lot of people hate when you mention the finances. But the truth, you cannot survive with out money to pay bills and for food. If you lose that it makes it very difficult to live. I still love my husband, but I go back and forth on what to do. I just wish this would go away. We just got the DNA results four weeks ago, the hits just keep on coming. By the way this OW is in the military, has a great job, and told my husband that she doesn't need his moeny. I love the fact that my bill money is going to be her play money, it burns me up! I will be looking for you posts. <P>babstr.

Polly:<P>You will find a lot of care on this site from people who are living this nightmare with you. We know first hand the horror, sorrow and rage you are feeling. In fact, from your post, you must be registering about a 10 in rage.<P>There's a lot of healing going on here. Personally, I heal for a while then something happens to trigger a memory or my mood just swings to negative, and I find I have regressed. But, then, I rebound with the help of this site. I don't know what people did before to get through something this devastating without the support we all find here. They must have felt so isolated and alone thinking they were the only ones that something this horrible could happen.<P>I feel as though God and/or divine providence brought me here to this site. I was so grief stricken, enraged, disappointed and destroyed by the news, I really didn't think I could survive. I never thought my marraige would heal.<P>The marraige is healing. I am healing. I am still enraged (I scream in my car and cry in the shower still, almost daily) but it gets to be less and less with depression episodes further and further between.<P>Like you, my husband wants nothing to do with OW or OC which in itself is worth something. Like you, my husband goes out of his way to repair and restore the marriage and endure my outbursts, which have become rare.<P>You came to the right place, Polly. If your well-meaning friends and family are anything like mine, they are probably telling you that if that had happened to them, they would have left instantly and never looked back. I used to be like that. I used to wonder how anyone could stay with their spouse after finding out that they had been with someone else, never mind the horror of a pregnancy. <BR>An affair is destructive and damaging enough and takes years to get over, if ever. But, to endure this particular extra burden is incredible pain that the others on the other boards have no idea...unless they have been there.<P>I am so grateful that Dr. Harley granted the request for our own forum within the forum. We need a place to gather to gain strength, to feel safe that what we say will not be judged, but understood. We come here to share, vent, give and take advice, to heal and to build our marriages and repair the damage, if possible.<P>I am so very sorry you have to be here, but, we welcome you anyway. <P>Here you can discuss your feelings and make decisions. some of us leave our spouses, but, strangely, I have noticed that most of us stay in the marriages. i used to feel like you do--like a fool, like I had no self-worth, like I was too insecure to leave. some or all of that could be true, but, I know that in my particular case, I am simply deeply in love with my husband and I missed him when he was gone as if half of me was missing.<P>As Popeye asked, "What's in your heart"? You may not know the answer yet. I may not have my answers yet, or anyone else here. But this is a good place to start.<P>Tell us your story.<P>Catnip =^^=<P>

Boy, I'm thinking of lots to say...<P>One, I highly recommend the book "After the Affair" by Janis Abram Spring. Super-helped H and I both, though it has nothing about OC. Excellent for recovery.<P>Polly, I completely relate to your "here's what 'everyone' will think; is it true?" thought process!!!! What I decided is this: NO ONE else will be living the rest of your life for you! I purposely did not tell others except a counselor until I had decided for sure what I was doing(maybe 6 months into it?), just so others couldn't influence me.<P>Worth repeating: No one else will be living the rest of your life but you.<P>No one else can tell you if you would be better off with him or without him. It IS possible to recover from this when both partners are committed to it, to doing anything that it takes. You save yourself, your spouse, and especially your children the pain, loneliness, grief etc. of divorce. You get to live out whatever dreams and goals you've had together as a couple/family. You learn a LOT in the process. Would you miss him? Is he your best friend? Is he a good dad? Then poopoo on what others think! Do you know most 'experts' say you will carry any unresolved relationship issues into your next relationship anyway?! How scarey is that? Why bother starting over?!<P>I thought all those "tv"-ish thoughts about infidelity, especially those "pathetic" women who stayed with a cheating man. My husband said the same thing! What we've learned since is that it's a WHOLE lot more complicated than that!!! It's immature to say there is one solution for every situation. Every situation is different. Yes, you should keep pace with your SOUL, keep your self-esteem, your spirit alive and well, single or married. Infidelity is soul-murder for everyone involved. What counts is where you go from here. Excuse the soapbox... my heart goes out to you, to us all.<P>babstr,<BR>my H is military too. The XOW is taking $18,000/year? Extortion?! Is she holding his career hostage? Or is he in a branch that does not punish infidelity? (That's a whole 'nuther ball game; been there, doing that). I'm sorry you have so much to cope with at once. <P>Best wishes to all,<BR>Jenny, also a 30something with 2 kids <P>

Thanks so much for your warm welcome guys! You have no idea how much it means to me to have your support. Words of wisdom from people who have not been in our situation are a mixed bag, as most of them seem more concerned with the OC than with your children and marriage. Why is that? I've heard, "If you can't accept the OC into your lives, then you should leave the marriage so that your H can pursue the relationship? Am I so selfish that I can't understand why the OC, who should have never been born in the first place, should be more important than my child who has been here loving its father for several years now, or my new baby, or even me, who has worked alongside this man for over a decade to build a comfortable family life? Why do most people think that the OC's welfare should usurp all of that? Please explain it to me. Perhaps my perspective is skewed. <P>Babstr...our OW also has made a career in the [censored] production business. She should hang out a shingle. With her great salary and the money she collects from her men, she makes close to six figures. Like in your case, the OW SAYS she doesn't need the money. So why the heck did she drag him to court? She used court as a threat to make him have involvement in her and OC's lives. She wanted him to accompany them around town to 'shop' for the baby. Basically, she wanted physical help with the baby she says she could raise all on her own, the baby no one wanted her to have. He refused to have contact(he hates her now because he can see how she operates) so she refused to drop the case and they zapped him in court. So like you, our bill money is her mad money, courtesy of the U.S. Legal system. <P>Catnip, I admire the way you defend your position on contact with OC. I read some of your responses to those who saw not opening your heart to TOC as a character flaw, that a truly loving person could overcome such selfishness. I loved what you said. Right On! I'm so grateful to have you in my corner. In fact, I intend to use your superior wording the next time I'm faced with the OC's spinmeisters. How long has it been for you?<P>Jenny, thanks for the reality check. To heck with those people. If they had to be in our shoes, I doubt they would do any different. Oversimplification doesn't work. Lately I have had to distance myself from the small amount of people that know because hearing their rubbish gives me agita. Thanks <p>[This message has been edited by pollypurebred (edited May 19, 2000).]

Hi everyone. I'm new here too and have Polly to thank for telling me about this forum. You're so right Polly, it's nice to have a board w/opinions & support from people with 'first hand' knowledge.<P>I also wanted to say that after reading many posts & replies in other forums re: this subject, that I too agree with both Polly and Catnip.I am SO sick and tired of hearing how the OC is the most important thing and that if we W's choose to stay married then we must accept and open our lives to this child and get over it. Most of the W's have their own children and I can't understand how ANYONE could even suggest that TOW & her C take presidence in this situation! As if the W should just forfeit all because TOW chose to have a baby & would like us step aside and hand over the trophy?!I think not!<BR> <BR>Anyway, it's my opinion that whether or not any of us let these children into our lives, and no matter how much visitation (if any) is involved, they'll still grow up in a dysfunctional family because of the thoughtless H's and their self-serving OW.<BR> <BR>Honestly, I'm not heartless, I feel the same as Catnip in that I love children and I wish it were mine. However, I'm also a realist and I don't care to have a constant reminder of my H's infidelity, nor do I wish to allow TOW who, like a vulture waiting for roadkill, hoped the news of her pregnancy would put an end to our marriage and drive my H into her waiting arms.<P>I know abortion is a personal choice (I can't say it's a moral one under these circumstances) but we all know birth control is readily available. These women made a conscious choice and the sole decision to bring a child into the world knowing full well there would be lifelong consequences for all, including their own children.<BR>Now THAT is what's really unforgivable!<P>Hang in there Polly... glad to see you're back posting! <BR>

Hey Luk! Welcome!

I think those that have the "if you had some self-respect, you'd leave" attitude say that for two reasons. Both are valid. <P>1. They aren't in that situation and so they can't know what it is truly like to have to deal with breaking up your family, rearranging your whole life, and breaking your own heart.<P>2. They aren't in that situation, so they can see simple solutions in complicated issues.<P>Before this ever happened to me, I considered myself a strong, moral, no nonsense kind of woman who would never let any man get over on me. My eyes were wide open, so I caught on to stuff quickly and put an end to it. That crap that got by me did not go unaddressed. I have a history of this in my family or orgin as well as my relationships, so this was just not tolerated.<P>Well, guess what? When it was the love of my life H, it just wasn't that easy to walk away. I kicked him out the moment I found out about the affair, but melted every time he came around. It's like cutting out your own heart if you are emotionally attached. It's like cutting off your own legs if you are financially attached!<P>I tried to the old "let your heart rule" deal, then did the "let your common sense rule" deal, and neither one is the answer. For me there has to be some balance. What good is doing what is perceived as the "right" thing if you lose your love? What if letting your heart rule means you lose your self respect? A good solution must leave you with both dignity and love.<P>So, what is the solution? I can't say for you. Only you can decide. <P>I found my way by gathering the facts. What does this mean financially if I stay/go? What will it take to make this work? What will I have to do if I go? How will we deal with the OC? And most importantly to me, can this man change? is he worth my effort?<P>When I felt like he wasn't worth the effort, the matter of what my heart wanted became a non-issue. If I couldn't have dignity, I didn't want his love.<P>Every day since I found out, I have prayed for truth to know what I was dealing with, and the strength to deal with the truth. I believe that has made a tremendous difference. I haven't seen the H in 4 days and I am feeling great. I know this was the right decision for me. I hope you can find yours soon so you can begin on the road to peace and healing.

Thank you Popeye. This indecision just adds to my feelings of powerlessness over the whole situation. I hope everything will be made clear for me soon.

what I don't understand is why you are so angry at the OW, when it was your husband who broke his vows to you, not the OW. Is it possible that she did not even know your H was married? From what you said, Prolly not. But she never made any commitment to you, and your H did. <P>And Really, if he fathered a child, he has a responsability to that child. If he didn't want another baby, then maybe HE should have been using birth control.<P>My Grandmother married and had two kids with a jerk, back in the 50's. He left her for another woman, and never had another thing to do with his children by her. That hurt my mother and her siblings a lot, knowing that, because their daddy divorced their mommy, he also divorced them. And it was mostly the OW who told him that she hated his previous wife's kids, that he was married to her, and THEIR kids were more important than any kids he had before they met. So I am reading all that into Polly's statements about how she is glad that her H does not care about his other kid. It's still his kid. If he didn't want to be responsable for any kids but hers, he should not have had sex with anyone but her.<P>But it's not the kid's fault.

You're right, he should have been practicing birth control. My H was involved w/OW who bore his child. He thought she was on the pill, in fact she told him he was. She had no idea how she got PG. Maybe the antibiotic she was taking made her pills fail. Did she bother to inform that he might need to use another form of birth control, no. <BR> No one here wants to punish the OC for the sins of the parents, yet why should all the children suffer. This is such a totally unfair situation all the way around. As the wife my questions have never been answered.<BR>1. If he never mentioned he was married, why did she not ask. When an older man gets involved w/younger woman, wouldn't be smart to ask.<BR>2. When he will not give a home phone number, don't alarmbells go off in you heads that he has something to hide, like maybe a wife and a family?<BR>3. When he can only see you at certain times, and he says let me call you, no one questions this?<BR>4.When she is told he IS married, why does she still continue to make herself available or worse, pursue him even more?<P>Both are guilty, yet, isn't there a belief of sisterhood? I would not ever do this to another woman. I thought there more women out there like me. AS regards the OC, I would truly welcome this child, if her mother was not part of the package. If I did not have to have my H's feet of clay rubbbed in my face on a regular basis. Am I angry with him, yes. But I still love him, and my children love and need their father. She could have given the child to us or put her up for adoption. That would have been the better thing for all around. Maybe even noble. Yet the OW selfishly kept her child, as she has said"a gift from God, how could she give her away?" That is what angers me, I could have put their affair totally behind me, if there had not been a child.<BR> There is no easy solution here. There is no good solution, there is only what is and what works. I know that someday, we will address this child one on one, until we go on as best as we can. My solution is protect my children as long as I can, from the pain of their father's betrayal, because he did not just cheat on me but them. How can my daughters believe that they can find a man they can trust, when the example failed them miserably? However, to give him credit, he has admitted to me his errors and wishes he could undo them. Hindsight is 20/20 right? He has since tried to make it up to them. Sorry this became so long Just my thoughts. TG

I was listening to a radio program about changing the adoption laws so people can find out about who their birth parents were. Many people want to even when their own birth parents don't want to be known. I think you need to think way down the road to what you will say when this child confronts you and your H because it probably will happen. How will you explain why he didn't want anything to do with the child he fathered when he knew exactly where he was because he had to pay child support? Will you say that your children with your H came first and you couldn't stand him to have any contact with OC because you hated his mother and hated what your H did? It probably will happen. Some day you probably will have to explain to this child why you did what you did. You H will too but that is his problem. I'm not saying this to be attacking but saying it because I think it is something that will happen and something you all will have to deal with some day. You will also have to answer these questions to your own children when they want to know why they didn't ever know their brother or sister. It's hard to think that far ahead when you are at such a bad place in your life though I bet.<P>I also think that anyone who doesn't use birth control is an idiot and responsbile for what happens. We all know how people get pregnant for Gods sake! And I would never believe a man under such circumstances if he told me he was sterile for instance! If I did believe him and got pregnant I would deserve it! But I am 100% with you all about the unequal child support. That is a very bad system and needs to be fixed. It is not fair for one child to get more than the others. They should get the same because one child is not worth more or less if they are born in wedlock or not. All children have worth.

Why on earth would I have to explain 'jack' to the OC? If anyone needs and deserves an explanation, it is my kids who lived with and loved their father completly before he made an [censored] of himself with a trashy whore who wanted no better for herself than to bear children by married men. Let her explain why she slutted around with my H and chose to go to term with her pregnancy although she knew I too was pregnant. Let her explain why she was so vehement about having a child she knew would never have a relationship with its father. Let her explain why she had to persue child support in court and now a huge chunk of my H's salary is her play money while we are deliquent on bills. Let my H explain it too. Then they both can explain to THEIR child why it has no involved daddy. That's not my responsibility at all. Don't make me the heavy. <P>It's my H's decision not to see the baby. I'm not some big bad wife who keeps him tethered to a stone in a dungeon. If that were the case, there would be no OC in the first place. He does not want to see that child. Period. <P>You said someday I will have to explain to this child why I did what I did. What the hell did I do? Please enlighten me.

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Delphi:<BR><B>I was listening to a radio program about changing the adoption laws so people can find out about who their birth parents were. Many people want to even when their own birth parents don't want to be known. I think you need to think way down the road to what you will say when this child confronts you and your H because it probably will happen.</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Maybe this will be a traumatic situation and maybe it won't, but it is not the wife's fault or her problem.<P>Can I explain my situation with my two brothers who are OCs? The first one met our father when he was 6. No drama, no wondering why he didn't have a full time father like the rest of us. He knew. His father was married to someone else... the entire time. He saw dad's wife every time he saw dad. He was reminded of his illegitimacy every time his siblings got to crawl into their beds and he had to go to some other home.<P>OC2 met our father just last summer. His mother TOLD him the truth, so he also doesn't question why he has no father. He knows- his father was married the entire time. <P>It's a sad situation, but the facts of their parentage make this a way of life. There is nobody to blame for that but his parents. No matter what the child is told, the innocent spouse deserves none of the guilt or burden of explaining why the OC didn't have one of his/her parents and certainly none of the blame.

The parents of the OC are responsible for telling that child what it needs to know. The wife has nothing to do with that. She didn't get any choices when that child was conceived, why should she bear the brunt of the mess that she did not create?!? If the OW would accept that it's over, get on with her life, maybe there might be more support of wives for their H to see the OC. Yet, if the H really wanted to connect with that child he would do what is necessary, yet it appears that most of them are ashamed of their actions and do not want to have anything to do with the living reminder of their stupidity. He and the mother of the OC will have to tell that child why he was not around. Shouldn't the OW tell her child, "I chose to try and bust up someone else' marriage, ruin their lives. What I got was you, whom I love, but I didn't get to keep the man who was married when I slept with him and got pregnant. So because I made wrong choices, I am raising you by myself." Wrong choices, isn't that what's about?

Yeah, yeah, yeah,<P>My H was a stupid idiot too in the role he played in fathering the OC, but get this - the OW herself was the product of her mother's relationship with a MM. As a matter of fact, in her family, out of 5 kids there are different 4 fathers - 4 with MM. More than anyone else, shouldn't she know the consequences of her actions. She knew my H was married, hell, she even knew me!<P>When I didn't know what was going on, my H had contact with OC but after I found out, her tune changed and she didn't want me around OC at all. Fine--I didn't need the reminders either! We have since moved, there is no contact with OW or OC (yes, there is child suport) and my family is finally starting to seem like we might be able to work through this. I don't worry about later - that's my H's problem, I've got my family to get sorted out in the meantime.<P>We all handle these issues differently according to specifics in our own lifes and we should be able to respect these choices. <P>There is no panacea.

Another side of this...the OW may not want anyone to know that she became pregnant by a MM. In our case, the OW has told everyone (except her mother, who knows the truth) that the father is single and wants nothing to do with the baby. LIES, LIES and more LIES. Makes HER look a whole lot better, doesn't it? What else would you expect of a 22-yr. old immature little girl who probably got pregnant on purpose because she thought it would "win" my H over to her????<P>That's her story for now. I don't know if the birth of the baby in July will change that or not...she would be doing a lot of explaining if she changed her story. I hate that a child will be lied to all his life about parentage. I know this bothers my H too. He is not strong enough to take a stand, though. But I do think, and have tried to get my H to think about, the day when this "baby" shows up on our doorstep wanting questions answered. I will be supportive of my H...but that is something he is responsible for, not me!