I am only able to remain in my marriage because my H chooses not to have contact with the OC. Actually, my H is vehemently against any contact and only considers the children we have as 'his'. My worst fear is that after I rededicate myself to our marriage, he will then decide to establish a relationship with the child. <P>My question for the wives whose husbands have a relationship with the children is, did your husbands ever NOT want to be involved with the OCs? Does their present status reflect a change from their original stance? If so, what made them change their minds?<P>I also have a question for the wives whose Hs dont have contact. How old are the children now? Does he seem to have regrets or guilt about the lack of a relationship?<P>BTW, how is everyone doing today? We haven't seen sunshine here in days; its pretty gloomy.<P> <P>

Good Morning, Polly:<P>I guess I am one of the lucky (?) ones as my husband wants nothing to do with OC/OW and has no guilt, feels no pull, has no interest and stays focused on the here and now and our future.<P>For whatever reason, he just wants to put that whole ugly episode behind him; his recovery depends on focusing forward.<P>If he has feelings about the OC (9 mos old)or is curious in any way, I think he feels everyone would be better off with no contact, especially the OC. The OW has a close, huge family (a cast of thousands) to look after the OC. <P>The OW wants us to have nothing to do with the OC, either. She has made it clear she only wants our money.<P>Where do you live where it's been so gloomy...Seattle?<P>Catnip =^^=

I'm in the big apple. Doesn't your tramp live here?<P>TOW has a big family as well, full of tramps like herself who are baby factories, but I don't think she is getting all of the support she needs. In any case, I think she was counting on support from my H, beyond the windfall she was awarded in court. No, TOW didn't get what she wanted because $$ can't hold the baby when you need a break or to do household chore, or run errands, etc. As much as I can't stand what he did and the position he placed us in, at least he is around to give me a hand and be a dad. <P>But seriously, do you know of any H who 'backslid' and decided to form a relationship after all?

Hi - well in my situation - my H has waffled on his feelings - at first not really wanting anything to do with the OC - he just wanted it all to "go away" - but then I think he was so 'curious' to see the OC but was so afraid of my adamance against it - and then I finally "chilled out" and thought - okay if he wants to see him fine - (It'll kill me, but I'll go with him). So I kept telling him that I would go with him when he was ready and he kept saying okay. And as time went on I kept thinking - I'm too curious, myself, so I know he is too - I just kept asking him "are you ready to see him?" And he kept telling me he would let me know - well when the child was 8 mo. old - I found some film (after I developed it) It showed the OW in my husband's truck and the baby's carseat in the back - so he had been lying "again" seeing him and her! It was like "starting from the beginning again". He said that "I couldn't handle it - so he did wihtout me" How charming - my H is too much of a coward to tell it like it is - so he sneaks around. I honestly think the best thing (even though I have since - been able to open my heart and accept this little boy) it is a very bittersweet situation - No matter what - I always feel hurt and sad each time I see the child - or we have to meet the OW to pick him up - etc. I think the child should get the best life they have (with the OW and extended family and whenver in my situation, the OW will get her claws out of my H, she might can find a man of her own and "that man" could be the OC's father figure". Plus I think it is very unfair to my daughter who is innocent as well.<BR> <BR>Good luck - I hate (and am glad) that you are - and hate that you have to be here. Much Love and Welcome.<P>------------------<BR>

I'm very concerned about this too. My H is not a very good communicator and, like Daycare's H, wishes to "spare" me from all this. I wish he would have spared me from it in the first place! I would love for us to be a team and work through this together...have some kind of plan for when the baby is born and how to handle it. I'm afraid that he is in denial and will decide that he wants contact with the baby after all. I guess I'll just have to wait and see. It's not easy....

I can tell you about my dad's situation. With the first OC, he was introduced to the entire family when he was 6. We had weekly visits with him for a while. He lived with us for a summer. I am not sure what sort of arrangement he had with his wife, if it was done by agreement, pressure, or how she felt about it.<P>His second OC contacted him!!! They had secret internet contact for a while. His mom, who was friendly with my siblings since before the child was born, never confirmed nor denied that my dad was the father until this contact. The siblings pressured my dad into meeting his child. He said he didn't want to hurt his wife, he didn't ask for this child to come into his life, yadda, yadda, yadda. <P>Well, guess who shows up at the family Thanksgiving table? You got it. OC2. His wife (who is not our mother) acted very calm and cool about it. I don't know (again) what he told her or if this was done with her agreement. No idea how she feels about it. I know that when she found out, she was kicked in the gut with evidence of an affair she long suspected. <P>I have the same thoughts as you. I would always wonder if he was contacting them in secret. If he thought he was going to break me down first then tell me this is the way it's going to be. I know he thinks I am a good hearted person who would never be mean to an innocent child. I think he would try to take advantage of that. I also know that he is very ashamed of it and has said that he would never tell his parents. <P>Though I had no compassion for my step-mother (who was the OW when my parents were married), I can see how she must have felt now. It's really, really hard. I don't know if I could do it. I feel sorry for the child, but what about me and my family?<P>We're divorcing, so it will be easier when he finds someone else. It won't be a betrayal for her, just a child that isn't hers. Maybe that is better for everyone?

<BR>popeye,<P>Is that last line a typo, or are you really divorcing? <P>Bystander

Polly,<BR>My H let me know from the beginning that he wanted to be involved with the OC. His father died when he was only 4-1/2 years old. This "abandonment" by his own father makes him feel that he cannot abandon any of his children (we have 3 ourselves). The OC is now 9 months old. We had contact the first few months but it was difficult for me. We have backed off for the moment (no current contact) so that we can focus on our marriage. My H would have reluctantly agreed to no contact with the OC if I had forced the issue but I believe that it would have caused more issues for us in the long run.<P>Unfortunately, there is no way to know if your H will want to be involved with the OC in the future. Hopefully, your marriage will be strong enough to deal with it if that issue ever arises. Another thing that I almost don't want to point out but I feel it is important to mention is that when the OC is older, they may call and want to be involved with you. How will you and your H handle it in that case? <P>I hope that helps!<BR>Audrey

Polly,<P>While the OW was still pregnant, H said it was best for all concerned if he didn't have contact. At the time I agreed. When OC was born, H was very depressed. A very close friend gave me some advice. She said that knowing H, he will find a way to see OC. He did. What made matters worst, he became involved with OW again. The truth always come out, eventually. Anyway, when we really started to mend our marriage, I had one non-negotiable request - H had to get partial custody. This eliminated any need to sneak to see OC. <BR>Your H may really not want anything to do with OC. My H did but wanted to spare me additional pain - I think.

Popeye,<P> "Maybe that is better for everyone?" <BR> <BR> Maybe not! It can work out!

Polly,<BR>My H has always felt guilty for not being there for OC (who is nearing 2yo) and I think he always will, but he knows he can't fix it. He is very ashamed of having fathered a child he cannot parent, and I think he should be. Children deserve better treatment, and what he did was hideously stupid. <P>If we lived nearby, I would accept the OC having visitation at our house so long as XOW stayed out of our lives. However, we hate the state OC lives in and will not go back; if OC is willing to come long distance when she's older, she can visit. I feel badly for H's child, but not guilty in the sense that I should ruin my life or my children's lives for her. It is not my fault her mother insisted on bringing her into this situation. <P>As for whether YOUR H will change his mind, you, who know him well, have a better idea than we do. Is he normally prone to changing his mind over big things like this??? Any big changes of heart seem to happen early on, but there's no guarentees. You can only control what you would do if he does...

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bystander:<BR><B>popeye,<P>Is that last line a typo, or are you really divorcing? </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>No type. We're really divorcing. It's been in the works ever since I found out about the adultery. Lawyer has been saying "any day" for the past 5 weeks but can't say when. It has something to do with something in the court system which is "beyond their control." So, I am just waiting. <P>H has known all along what is going on with the divorce and frankly hasn't done much, beyond giving me words, to stop it. Don't see why I should. <BR>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CD:<BR><B>Popeye,<P> "Maybe that is better for everyone?" <BR> <BR> Maybe not! It can work out! </B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I say that because if it were a second marriage situation, there would be no betrayal to deal with. The child would be able to have a father (if he is so inclined to be one, which it doesn't look like) and the wife would not have to deal with insecurities. Much better chance for a happier, united family.<P>I know I have argued for the hard road because it is through tough trials that we gain strength and growth, but we cannot forget the partnership which MUST occur. <P>You guys have been truly WONDERFUL. I have gained so much from listening to your struggles and seeing the rainbow come after the storm, but it just isn't that way for everybody. I have come to realize that affairs are big wake up calls. We can respond and repair or we can let the alarm keep going off and hitting the snooze. My H is snoozing.<P>It's too painful to sit here and watch him waste opportunity and wallow in the SH** he created. I am too much of a do'er to sit in limbo. I am too much of a positive person to linger in the dark. It's just too depressing. I had my miserable days. I am ready to get on with it one way or the other. I don't want to wait a year or two more and find out he's just the same. It's been too much, too long. I'M the betrayed and yet I am much further along in forgiveness and healing than he is! I'm taking my share of the blame and he's taking none! <P>There's two types of cheaters. Those that learn and change, and those that keep cheating. Sadly, i think my H is the serial type.<P>I appreciate your encouragement, but I am resigned to this. It's cool. I accept it. Do I sound devastated? I was devasted when I kept trying and was rejected. Truth is something I can live with. <BR>

Thank you all for your insight. Que sera sera, I guess...I just hate living life looking over my shoulder. The best thing is to plan for the worst and hope for the best.

Dear PPB,<P>8.5 yrs ago my H had an affair. He fathered two children from two diff women in the 11 mos we were separated. He wanted to reconcile and I was willing but only knew of one of the OC. Later on I learned of the 2nd OC.<P>My husband fervently declared he did not want to be a participating father to either child. He said those women burned him by getting pregnant deliberatly and all he wanted was to be married to me. He pays support, thats it.<P>During the 7+ yrs I felt he was feeling guilty, I asked him about it several times and he denied these feelings. Then 1 yr ago I found out he was secretly seeing both boys. He was very involved in their lives and declared he is going to continue actively fathering them. He is extremely angry w/me and blames me for not spending their first years w/them. He is unbelievably angry w/me. He has also started an affair w/mother of one of the boys and she has fueled his fire by agreeing that it's been my fault he hasn't been there. It's a horrible mess and I've been designated the bad guy. My H & I are now separated. I belong to the Infidelity Forum. Please pray for me.<P>Jo

Josey,<BR>I'm so, so, so sorry you're in such a mess! How VERY painful! You deserve your own thread on this.<P>Your H sounds like a conflict avoider; we were discussing that on Andi's thread. A conflict avoider will not ask to get their needs met for fear it will cause a fight, then secretly get very angry when their needs don't get met! This is what caused my H's affair in the first place, taking his hurt/anger out in a passive-aggressive way. I think it's really important to define the cause of an affair the first time around so mistakes aren't repeated. In your case, it sounds like you are ALL in so much pain/loss/anger... I pray you will find peace and growth, with or without your H. {{{Hugs}}}

My husband's OC is 4 yrs old. He initially didn't want any contact with the baby because he knew he would have to tell me about his affair in another country if he became attached to his daughter. After about 9 months he fell madly in love with the daughter, but began to fall "out of love" with the mother. I saw the same pattern when I began to have children. So now he wants to be with me since our three children are almost adults. He continues to desperately want to be with his daughter in another state. Since discovery in June 1999 we made one inital trip to her state and stayed in a hotel....very painful for me. I wanted to see how much I could deal with. What hurt the most was watching the almost idol worship love he had for her. She has come to our home and met my children three times. The last time I decided I can't stand the pain of it. When she comes for the agreed two visits per year I will leave my home or he will. I just can't stand to have this daughter of an affair push me away when I get too close to my husband. She insists on sleeping with my husband and he allows it because it's "only temporary, How can I make her sleep alone in a bed?" The little girl is very stubborn and manipulative. My husband is useless in controlling her.<BR>Our marriage counselor said for the sake of the future of our marriage he will have to have only minimal contact with her eventually. I'm finding that to be true. The more he insists on contact and visits the more remote and distant I become. He tries to straddle two fences and finds himself failing to keep his balance on either fence.<BR>Such pain, right? Peace lover.

Dear Josey:<P>I agree with Jenny. You need your own thread on this one. How despicable to be made the scapegoat when you often asked you spouse where his feelings were on all this.<P>It never ceases to amaze me how the logic is twisted and the Betrayed spouse is blamed for the actions of the WS. Ugh <P>You have been through a nightmare, Josey. You have come to the right place for support and understanding. Let us know how we can help.<P>Peace Lover:<P>I'm glad you're back-have been wondering about you. What's been going on?<P>I certainly understand your feelings about having the child around, especially if she's manipulative. <P>I don't know how I would handle that. I'm not crazy about bratty kids who run their parents, however, it isn't the kids' fault as a rule. It's usually the fault of the self-indulgent parent who is salving their guilt at the kids expense. Is this what your spouse might be doing? <BR>Poor kid. Pretty soon no one can stand being around it. <P>What is up with your spouse letting the kid sleep with him? That is not very healthy or appropriate, is it? I don't know because we never did that in our house. It makes me uncomfortable just thinking about it.<P>catnip =^^=

Dear Josey,<P>I am so sorry. How is it in the end you get blamed?! I wonder how many men are all "conflict avoiders", it sounds like that is what you have, I know that is what my H is. You are in my prayers.<P>Peacelover,<P>I think your h is also a conflict avoider. That is exactly what he is doing with is child, by letting her call the shots. Catnip is right, it will only make her more and more unpleasant. Instead of him being her father, he is trying to be her best friend for the moment. I understand attention, but she also needs to be parented. I feel for your pain. It sounds like to could be difficult for there to be less and less contact if he is so involved now. You too are in my prayers.<P>babstr.