i read one of catnip's posts and it freaked me out. i wonder how much we will have to pay now. my husband makes about 2000-3000 per month, depending on how construction is going. i am so tired. the past 3 nights i have slept but i wake up and feel as if i haven't slept at all. i have some kind of mini panic attack at work yesterday. and everyone kept telling me how tired i look. this is so stressful. i just can't stop worrying. i put our info in the childsupport calculator for AZ and put that the OW makes min wage 40 hrs a week. we know she works but not sure how much she makes. it said the monthly support would be $450. but who knows. and what about all that back support?? please help me.<BR>a very tired and sad happy_girl<P>i had posted this under my other post but was afraid no one would see it. i am just so confused. i am tired but can't sleep and only at work do i not think of all the problems we will soon have. i hope this will get better. give me some hope. <P> <P>

Ok, I don't know what to say to make it better. I am here to support you and to tell you how it is. The child support system is not fair. I am in the middle of an appeal because we can't afford the child support. I am at home with our daughter. We live on a very tight budget. After my bills I have $400 left for food. They want $600 a month! So basically I will not have any food money, but will also not be able to pay my bills, literally. But it looks like there is not getting around it. Yes, catnip's siutation is a mess, they really screwed them. It really matters on the amount the state had to pay out on the back support. I know that they will try and get every dime back.<P>Also watch out for the health insurance loop. I was more worried about that than anything. Because that is something that is going to be constant contact with the OW and OC. Everytime that child gets a cold, the OW would be calling for money. I didn't want to have to talk to her, or report the child on our health insuance. So far she hasn't asked for that, she has a very good job. This is also her second time doing all of this. She already gets child suppport for the first affair child. <P>I don't want to scare you, but you do need to be prepared. Each state is different. I know how the panic attacks are. I have had them, and my mind races, on the facts. It scares me too. Now I am in this holding pattern, we sent the papers over nine weeks ago, and still no word. The system runs very slowly, so you'll need to try and be calm. Just figure out the percentage, and what you will do to cover that. Sorry I wasn't much moral support. But I know the need to have some facts told to you. The law is not kind to the men, the law blames the men. <P>babstr.

hi babstr,<P>thanks for you honesty. i know it will be bad. luckily i work right now. we are going to have to get our credit card bill paid off so that is one less monthly expense. and i don't know if i will be able to go to school this spring for nursing or not. i could probably get a good paying part time job i hope. don't know if they can use my income. it seems like it differs in every state. this should be federally mandated and the amount should be the same universally. how is one child worth more than another. and they should start punishing the women who have affairs with married men. sorry, but now i feel much better. anyway, i am just such a basket case right now. i took some sleep aid and am gonna try to get some rest. to make things worse one of the girls in our office just left for vacation, so there are only 2 of us. actually it might help get my mind off things. thanks for the info. take care and sorry you are in this situation. don't we all wish that. you are in my prayers. thanks.<P>happy_girl

happy_girl,<P>If the OW has been on welfare throughout her pregnancy and ever since then, the state generally will try to get the majority of all those expenses back. <P>I live in Kansas and have a friend who is unmarried who just had a baby and is on welfare. The father is also unmarried and has had no contact with her for quite some time now. Her case worker told her that the state will go after him to reimburse the state for the cost of labor and delivery, all Dr. bills pertaining to the child, plus child support. She speaks in vague terms about it, so the tomorrow when I see her, I will ask her more specifics. Such as, does he have to pay full amount of Dr. bills or only a percentage. Her child is only a month old though. Those are the only facts I know in regards to cases such as this. Please keep in mind, laws in AZ could differ somewhat.<P>I can understand the freaking out! I've been doing a bunch of that lately too. Really though, there is absolutely nothing you can do about this, especially not even knowing the amount that they are going to want from your H. I know, what a cruel waiting game, huh! I will continue my prayers for you, I know how scary all of this can be.

thanks tryingtomoveforward,<P>like your handle, i moved forward and then this happened and i was forced into reverse. the OC is almost 3 so i can't even imagine what the back pay will be. it is terrifying. i can only pray and take things one day at a time. the worst for me is the constant evil thoughts i have about the OW and the whole situation. they drive me crazy because i feel like i am such a bad person for it. i don't even want to receive communion on sundays, don't feel worthy. i hope someday i can look back on this and laugh, but i doubt it. this board was a miracle for me though. as it probably is for all of us. somewhere to talk without all the judgements from people who have no idea what this situation puts you through. thanks and good luck in moving forward. "one day at a time, sweet jesus."<P>happy_girl

happy_girl,<P>Oh I know what you mean about those darned evil thoughts!! I'm still so angry at the OW that I can't think straight at times. I feel she ruined so much. Yes our marriage had some real rough spots, but OW took advantage of those and moved in on my H. OW was my "best friend", which I now see as her manipulative way getting closer to my H. I'm sick just thinking about her. And to think she shares a child with my H...I want to cry everytime I think about H having a child with someone else, especially her, who betrayed me so badly!! I feel somewhat obsessed with thinking about this whole situation so often.<P>The whole point of this was that, no, you're not evil, just human. I don't know what I'd think of someone if they didn't think evil thoughts in our situations. Either they'd be in total denial or Holy!

thanks so much for writing back. your words mean a lot to me. it is great to have people who can understand me. i am glad i am normal. wouldn't want to be holy. ha ha. thanks again. and i am sorry that your friend turned out to be an enemy. luckily i don't know or care to know the OW. but i do know i am prettier than her. i met her a long time ago at a party. though at times don't know if that makes me feel better or worse. lol.<P>thanks so much!!<P>happy_girl

Good morning, Ladies:<P>David got a job that will start at around $17 per hour. That's about $2924 per month, significantly less than what he/we made at our business until his problems surfaced in early 1998. The courts are harder on people who are self employed because they beleive we have ways to hide assets and they arbitrarily add on dollars on a "what if" basis...what if they have pots of secret money buried in the backyard, etc.<BR>After taxes, he'll take home or net about $1800 to $2000, depending on how many deductions he can legally take (you must take as many as you can to net as much 'take home' cash as possible because your tax returns will be taken from you by the OW for arrears) <BR>In our case with OW getting $1081 per month, we will be left with around $800 per month to live on. This should be interesting since our mortgage payment alone is $1200.<P>What we are doing is filing our tax returns separately in order to protect me from getting MY refund confiscated by the Pig in NY. Even if we were not going to be divorced, I would have filed as Married filing seperately.<P>Because NY law mandates 17% of David's gross, that is all we are going to send, regardless of what they have ordered him to pay. With David taking as many deductions as legally possible, and him sending 17% of his gross religiously, they cannot garnish his wages and they will have to wait every year to confiscate his refunds. However, the refunds will go to pay our income tax debt of $25,000, so OW will have to take a number and wait in line...like forever.<P>We will focus on sending the mandated percentage which will come to around $450-500 per month, and when they see HIS tax returns that he is NOT making the money THEY think he is, then perhaps we will be able to get the support adjusted retroactively, by law.<P>I understand panic attacks as I had them for nearly 8 years. Remember that panic attacks are born out of one's feeling that they have no control over a situation. People in their thirties ar particularly susceptable to them. They do pass. Remember when one comes onto you out of the blue without warning and you find yourself frightened and feeling that detached and 'unreal' feeling, remember that it is only a panic attack, you are NOT dying, you are NOT going crazy and find something to make you feel "in control" even if it something as innocuous as ordering a pizza and making the decision of what you want on it. <BR>One more thing, for me panic attacks stopped when I stopped feeling scared and sad and started getting angry. Start asserting yourself when talking to creditors and develope a cavalier attitude.<P>Example: (phone call from creditor)<BR>"Mrs. Catnip? Your payment to XYZ is two weeks late and we will be forced to turn you over to collections if we don't get a payment by Friday."<P>Catnip: "Well, we all must do what we have to. I understand and that's OK. There is nothing I can do about it right now because of all the things that have happened to us over the past year. I'd love to pay you but I can't right now and can't say when I could. You'll have to turn me over for collections or wait for a while."<P>Surprisingly, when I explain our situation in further detail, which is very humiliating, the bill collector is so horrified by what has happened, they bend over backwards to accomodate me and work things out. The horror of what has occurred in our lives is a nightmare that others on the outside fear that this could happen to them, it simply takes their breath away. They don't ever want to be in our shoes and the empathy can be quite remarkable. <BR>Also, you do not know these people, and they don't know you, nor do they know people you know, unless you live in a small town. You're anonymous so you can spill your guts about what you have been going through to gain time or help from the creditors. <BR>It is hard, and makes me resentful to have to do it, but I put my pride aside and explain the situation. <BR>In fact, because you are the betrayed dealing with this horror, they can be very accomodating towards you, very understanding and kind.<BR>Take it from someone who unfortunately knows. <P>Do what you must to protect yourself and make sure that you take as many deductions as possible so you net more cash each paycheck. <BR>In fact, I know NY law mandates 17% of the 'gross' but I am thinking that we will send 17% of the "net"...why should she get all that money tax-free. If we send something every month, they can't garnish his wages. If we take as many deductions as possible, there will be little or nothing at the end of the year for the OW to suck up (but be careful that you don't take so much you have to PAY Uncle Sam)<P>Well, back to the salt mines.<P>Later<P>Catnip =^^=

<BR>Dear Happy-Girl:<BR>I just read your post and believe I KNOW EXACTLY what you are feeling. And if I can I am going to help you. This is what you need to do: First of all take a deep breath and don't be so hard on yourself, this is a very tough situation and nobody has ever tought you how to deal with it. Second of all you may not be in such a bad situation so before you think you are wait. I am going to tell you what we did because I think it is going to help you and I did a little bit of research for you in the state of AZ so you should be ok. Your H should get a lawyer just to help him out in the paperwork. It should not cost you more than $800- $900 for the lawyer fees for processing the paperwork. They are going to look at your H past 1040, which has how much income he did last year and based on that they will asses an amount which is 17% , plus if your H has insurance it will be beneficial to put the OC in your insurance that way you do not have to pay extra for another Insurance. You also want to request that because you have Insurance that the OW pays for co-payments and other amounts (usually the Custodian is responsible for this). If your H wanted visitation rights then the amounts will be less calculating that the OC will live temporarily in your House ( but I do not reccomend that). You do not have to inform anybody how much you make, that is non of their business and they should only be looking at his income not yours. (I know that there are some states in which they look at both but not in AZ.)You should "change your bank account" like this: open a new account with only your name in it, and with an authorized signature of him, but you need to open the account so the account is your account that way if they ever request his bank account he can either show them the other one which will have nothing and your account does not have to be presented. He may have to pay money back, but they may arrange some pay schedule but call a lawyer your first phone call should be free. Why call a lawyer, because he will give you alot of answers that I cant because the law in AZ is different. I have a question for you, is she claiming that she could not find him in these past three years? Or what is her explanation on why she has not requested CS before? That is very important in the payback decision making. If he can prove that he was just informed about this and that she now changed her mind then he only pays when the paternity is established. Let me know if this helps. Like I told you a Family lawyer is your best option, call a coupleof them speak with them and you will feel better. Go to the AZ Children Services Web page and read all about it, you will be surprised on how much you can learn. Once the payment is established you will find a way to pay it, it is very hard but you find a way, so do not get discourage.<BR>God Bless You!<BR>My prayers are for you!<BR>Fambis<BR>

<BR>As someone who has read the count records of Catnip's case, I can easily believe a creditor recoiling in horror. The financial destruction in Catnip's case is almost without parallel. <P>Bystander<BR>--<BR>Who is thinking about writing a story about Catnip's life.

Happy girl, please call your county Family Court. They are most helpful (Even in NY!) and will provide you with most of the info you need, free of charge. <P>As for the bad thoughts, at least you are only having them and not acting upon them. I just saw the Betty Broderick story on Lifetime last night. A moment of revenge for a life in jail? Definately not worth it. Violent thoughts are only natural, especially after the mish-mash we've been through. <P>Take care

dear fambis,<P>thanks for all your help. i don't know how to thank you enough. i just have to thank god that i found this place. i will look into a lawyer. we only have 17 more days to respond to this so i need to hurry up. i am going to re read your post later so i can figure out the bank account thing. i got a bit confused. <P>i am off to work but thank you. <P>pollypurebred,<BR> <BR>thanks too! i am definitely going to get in touch with either a lawyer or the family courts. i am going to have to take control of my emotions and not let them control me!!<P>catnip,<P>so sorry for your situation. it makes me feel bad for worrying so much about mine. take care and hang in there. thanks for the stuff about panic attacks. <P><BR>anyone have any recommendations for restful sleep? i have been sleeping more and never feel rested??<P><BR>thanks! i appreciate everything!!<P>happy_girl