Well while I thought my H was fully committed to repairing our marriage I found out he has been in touch with OW. It doesn't appear to be often but I found an e-mail to him from her.<P>She talks about how he has told her he wants to give me 100% but she asks then why is he still seeing and talking with her. She talks about how she will need him when the baby is born and she will need to be in touch with him regularly. About how she will not be ready to have me around at first. She talks about how he told her he doesn't think it will work with him and I.<P>He has told me that she sent him an e-mail talking about CS and lawyers, etc. and he got scared. Doesn't want her to take him to court and take everything from him.<P>We just started counseling yesterday. He made such an effort last night when I LB about him not calling me when he came home an hour late.<P>Can my H be so cruel as to lead me on when he wants or might want this other woman? Or intends on accommodating her needs around the OC? Can he be this evil person taking down every last bit of hope I have? Why is he asking me (just last night) not to give up on him when he's given up on me? I'm ready to accept this marriage's downfall and start a new life. Why won't he let me if he doesn't want to commit to me? Doesn't he want me to be happy? How much more endurance do I have left? When will my heart stop loving this person who's done it so much harm?

lsm,<P>Ok, take a deep breath. I am in a mood, so take my words to heart, but I am getting pretty sick and tired of hearing about the OW's feelings. What about you. I think it is BS, that she is talking about what she will need. You know that in order for your marriage to survive, than no contact. He has to cut her off. You both need to deal with the court side of it, together. Have you spoke to an attorney? <P>Either way he is going to pay for it. My H and I are not going to be able to afford the cs, but there is no choice. DO NOT, I repeat DO NOT trust her. She will eventually go to get CS. Better you take the first step, get the DNA, and take control as much as you can. <P>These men are idiots, my husband included. But there is no excuse for him to continue to lie to you. If he has contact with her that you don't know about, then that is lying. I know most men don't think about like that. I know from his message that he truly loves you. But he has to start with full honesty, and no contact. <P>Who cares if she needs help at the birth, that is her problem. If a woman wants the right to have control of her body, then she also needs to control what happens. Every woman, happy, sad, married, or unmarried, has those decisions. Yes, my husband was there when I had our daughter, but I also kneew that she was MY responsibility. If I walk from my marriage, then I know that I am the one who has to feed her, cloth her, and put her to bed. And that is the life that the OW decided on when she got pregnant. She controls her body, she should have controlled getting pregnant. I personally think condoms only work if your married, or in a monogomous relationship, otherwise as a woman don't count it. <P>You need to sit him down, and tell him what you found, and what his choice is in regards to her. I understand that he has mixed feelings in regards to the future OC. But you come first, you family is first. That includes first before the OC, my personal opinion. I know you also don't want to tell him one way or the other. I think you are brave, and stronger than you think. You are all still standing, you are all still living you life, and supporting your child. <P>I want you to concentrate, be strong. I know it hurts, and I know you feel like you can't trust him. So to some degree don't trust him. I am not saying to contantly LB, but don't give him too much room. Look at your life right now, as if you were going to leave. Make sure you can take care of yourself. Make sure you don't let her, run YOUR life. If he allows contact with her, than she is invading your life and your space, and your husband. What she doesn't get, is that he is your husband, and besides cs, he doesn't owe her anything. <P>I believe in you. You can do it. Stand your ground on contact with her. NO CONTACT. I would do anything to live in the same town with you and everyone else on this board. So that I could come tell you this face to face. To take you out, have a talk, and regain your composure. I know that this isn't the same, as it would be in person. But I do understand. I want you to be happy. It is enough to live through an affair, and a impending OC. But to have things keep arising, that are in your husband's control, is too much. Please right back soon, I am worried about you. Sending prayers, and hugs. Keep your chin up.<P>babstr.

babstr: I am struggling to get through this day. I confronted my H this morning. Trying to stay strong and not LB. I was so angry. I didn't cry but couldn't breath either. <P>When my H is around me I truly believe what he says to me. We took a step back last night and he made such an effort to get me to understand how devoted his is to me and the marriage. I believed him. I still do. Sometimes I wonder if he has split personality.<P>I don't know that he could EVER prevent any contact with OW. She's using this baby to make him feel guilty and obligated. Telling him she needs help when she ALONE is making the decision to have this child. He's told her he can't be there. Could he be trying to be there for both of us and be a father for both of us?<P>I did speak to an attorney and she said that they calculate based on our home, her home, her income and his income. Mine is not included. And they take a hardship deduction for our D. I left a message again for laywer asking how I can calcuate estimated costs we might have. If it's something we can live with maybe we can make the suggestion to her before she does file.<P>Maybe my H is walking on eggshells with this OW. But it's at my expense. How many chances do I give him before I walk away? I will not tolerate this and I want to walk away now. How many times do I put myself and my well being at risk? The more and more times I find out things the better he will get at conceling them. I can't wait around for my feelings to die. I have to say enough is enough at some point. I feel like I'm back in highschool all this triangle crap. It makes me sick to my stomach. I can not physically keep doing this. And I don't want my D to witness her mother's deterioration. I don't want to make any major decisions because I realize this is new and I have to heal but how do I do that when my H pours salt in the wound. I don't think it's intentional and I think he's ready to rebuild but what if I'm wrong. Or what if he changes once again when the baby is born.<P>I know he loves me but is it enough? Can he be strong enough? How far do I let it go? I'm so lost I can't even believe it. The only thing keeping me from going under is my beautiful D. I heard in a movie and I believed it..."She's the reason I was born". And she is. what am I doing to her? Help me!<P>------------------<BR>Lost Soulmate<p>[This message has been edited by lostsoulmate (edited July 13, 2000).]

Lost soul mate:<BR>You are in my thought and prayers hang in there you are very strong. Your D needs you to be strong. With regard your H you are going to have to ask him and let him explain why is he keeping contact with the OW, the truth is that you cannot work this marriage with her in the middle. I am so sorry that he feel guilty but she made that decision on having the baby and that is not your problem. You need to ask your H to decide and to totally stop any contact with the OW. He will continue to be manipulated by the OW if he continues to talk to her but if he doesn't she cannot make him feel guilty. Ask him to stop any contact with her.<BR>Gotta go! Hang in there!<BR>fambis

I have not been where you are but know someone who was. I think I read your H post and OW is what two months pregnant, I think. First, off NO CONTACT is an absolute to matter what. Have you two sent the NO CONTACT letter?<P>I wouldn't negotiate with her under any circumstances. And until the child is actually born and the DNA test done your H has no responsibility to this woman at all. You and your marriage should be his first priority. Besides she could be lying about being pregnant, there is always the possibility of miscarriage and finally the child could turn out not to be your Hs.<P>

TMD and Fambis I agree. My H seems to think that by him being cordial he can prevent her from filing for CS. But the fact is our marriage will NOT work if there is contact with OW. And it will not work if he's not being honest. And it will not work if he doesn't involve me in any decisions related to OC.<P>OW keeps telling him that you can't separate the two (OW and OC). That they are one in the same. That to be there for one you are there for the other. I can't get him to see this is not the case. He does not need to have contact w/OW, ever. It's just a choice he has to make.<P>How can I get him to make this choice and be honest with me and open with me about any future attempts by OW? How can I keep fighting when I keep getting pushed back to the starting line?<P>Why, why, why does he only give me 80%? If he can't give me or won't give me what I derserve why is he still around? <P>We plan or talked about getting a DNA once the baby is born. I'm sure the OW will resist or get angry. My H is afraid of everything being taken away from him. This OW was pregnant about 2 years ago and lost the baby. There is also allegedly another man who wants to be with her and take care of this baby even though it's not his. I'm sure it was just another ploy to try to get my H to be jealous and come back to her. According to him he told her that she should take advantage of this man.<P>How can I know my H is the person I've known for 12 years and not someone else? Why is there so much agony in this world?<P>------------------<BR>Lost Soulmate

lsm,<BR>I'm so sorry you're going through this. Yes, this is a major lovebuster on your H's part. Perhaps you need to make it ABSOLUTELY CLEAR what behaviors he needs to have for you to stay, and be prepared for a separation or Plan A or other consequence if he violates those "rules". He is giving this XOW too much power in your lives. Child support and visitation, if there is any, can be decided within court after the birth, and there is nothing he should be doing with her before then. I can understand now why you have fears that he cannot keep healthy boundaries in this situation. He is only confirming those suspicions... However, if he can understand what problems he is making and turn it around, your marriage can still recover.<P>Best wishes.

lsm,<P>Well first of all you have a small blessing on how the the state figures out the child support. At least they consider your daughter and her income. In my state they take a straight 20%, and they don't care that our daughter is the same age or the fact that she has a great job.<P>Ok, I really feel that you and your h CAN make it, if he quits lying to you about the contact that he has with her. I am of course only basing that on his sincerity in his post. He is most likely walking on eggshells. BUT, you are right it is at your expense. Which we all know you and your daughter have paid plenty! I will admit, I am five months after DDAy, and just recently I have started having panic attacks. I too cannot breath, and I am exhausted every night from it. But that is because everything is coming to a head with the job situation, and the appeal situation. So I can't promise you that your health won't suffer. <P>I know it seems easier to walk away. I told my H in the beginning that I would stay and try to work things out, if he was honest and showed that he was trying. I do have a easier road because he wants no contact. But I told him that after a year I might still end up leaving because I might not be able to get over it. You might have to think like that, ONLY if he straightens up. Tell yourself that now you will try if she shows effort, but in the end you might still have to go on. I mean bottom line is they could walk across glass, but if we can't trust them, then that is no life.<P>How is your daughter holding up right now? I know that you and I and our husbands, and our children are the same age. The OC in my case is also two. But have you and your h tried to shelter her from this? I will say that there is no way that my daughter will pay for this. I feel the same way you do about my daughter, I was born to be with her. I gave up the career and stayed at home to raise her. I don't want her to see her mother suffering just like you don't want your daughter to suffer. <P>All I can say honey, if he keeps it up then he is going to lose you and your daughter. You cannot suffer and make her suffer if he can't get his act together. She comes first, that comes to his time, his money, and his honesty. If he can't give that to you, he will never be able to give it to your daughter. Right now, she can't fathom what is going on. I know that some people work it out so that the OC can be included. But I never wanted my daughter to have to tell her friends, that her dad cheated on her mommy and here is her half sibling. Now if that doesn't shame both children I don't know what does. Your H is going to have to decide, and you are going to also. Just remember that if you give that OW a inch she will take a mile. The bottom line is you are dealing with someone who has no morals whatsoever. She is only going to look for how to get ground with your H. <P>I am so sorry honey. I know nothing I say will really help. I know you feel like you are going insane. I am proud that you felt strong this morning. You are going to have severe ups and downs. I still can't believe the situation we are in. I have to close this to run some errands. I will be back on here around 11 pm. Keep your chin up.<P>babstr.

**Warning...long post **<P>If OW predicts that her life as a single mom is going to be so difficult without your H's constant presence, why is she having this baby? Please ask your H this question. She could end all of the drama right now, as she is only 2 months along. <P>Your H sounds as if he is confused. The effects of the affair have not really worn off yet, then this happens. He did not have time to remove himself from OW emotionally yet. I read his post over at "Trouble Mending" and he did not seem to grasp the reality of the situation he has gotten everyone in. Maybe you need to slap him into reality, so to speak. <P>Texasgirl said on one of these postings that she saw a lawyer and had him draw up figures on what she could get for her and her kids if she were to leave. Perhaps H should understand what he would have to pay in the event that his behavior kept along the present vein and you were to leave. <P>OW is undoubtebly feeding your H pounds of BS and he is falling for it. Two months pregnant and making demands as if she were a legitamate wife? If she takes him to court, all she is entitled to is what the laws allow. No more. It is very likely that his under the table dealings might save you a few $$ (very few) but the emotional cost will be beyond calculation. Look at Daycare Disaster's situation that arose from her H's desire to avoid court. And from the sound of your OW, she will be quite involved in getting your H's focus on her and OC. What else has she got to do but to try and wrangle your H away from you? OW know if they pick, pick, pick away at our H's making requests, in OC's behalf of course, that we will eventually bail, or LB until H bails. Then they will 'win'. <P>Like I said LSM, you still have time if OW is only 2 months along. Perhaps the three of you should have a meeting (in the presence of a minister, attorney, or some official type) and remind her that you and your H are staying together DESPITE her plan to have the child, and that he is the love of your life, and you will NEVER leave him, no matter what she attempts. Too many of these OW who bear OC (I read their posts all of the time on gloryb.com) think that it is we who will leave our H's when we can't deal with the BS, because all of their previous attempts to motivate the men to leave on their own have failed. <P>Ask you H what does he propose to tell his D when he is traipsing off to visit his 'love child'? What will he tell the OC when he has to return to his 'real family' after a few hours? What is the story he will give to neighbors, friends, family, co-workers? It's much more complicated than he realizes.<P>Tell your H that she WILL take him to court if he does not dance to her tune. It will be money well spent to be rid of her. Put your foot down, LSM, now and establish whom is the wife in this marriage, and who is the usurping slut. <P>P.S. At this stage, she might be faking it, or it might not even be his! Good Luck.

Pollypurbread and babstr thank you for being here for me.<P>It's my understanding this girl is having this baby no matter what. She does not believe in abortion...Of course. What I don't understand is that she has been told (allegedly by my H) that she is on her own. And he told her (from another e-mail I was copied on) that she can contact him after the baby is born. That he wanted to make his marriage work and keep his family together. She is actually willing to "share" my H time. Why would you want this for your child? I don't. Maybe you're right in that she thinks eventually I will bail. Actually I don't care if she thinks that or not. If my H can't be strong enought to stand by my side I don't care if I bail and he ends up with her. I don't want any part of these games. I want the truth and I want to start my life over. With or without my H. Why can't he see how simple it would be for him to keep us together? Honesty? Protecting our marriage at all costs? No contact with OW? It's so easy. Why can't he do this if he feels it in his heart? Or does he?<P>------------------<BR>Lost Soulmate

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by lostsoulmate:<BR><B>When will my heart stop loving this person who's done it so much harm?</B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P><sigh> There are sort of two tracks here to consider.<P>The OW no doubt knows that contact with your H and her has the potential to blow up your marriage. You need to have your H understand that you have zero tolerance for this, and he has to agree to that. However, don't play into her hands by dumping him now over minor unsolicited contact while there is still logistics to work out between the parties and some contact is needed.<P>I tend to think in lists, and this is the way I would handle it in your shoes.<P>1. Forget this cordial stuff and put the issue on a legal basis right now. Get an attorney, and have your H send the OW an email saying that all future contact regarding any alleged paternity is to be directed to your attorney. Have the attorney then send a cordial letter introducing himself, reiterating that he is the sole contact and that her emails and calls to your residence must cease immediately, asking who she is represented by, and putting in place the procedure for an eventual DNA test and a negotiation for CS.<P>2. After you send that email, kill that email account. She may be luring him into dialogues that may later be admissible in court. Your H says he is afraid of losing everything...chatting with your adversary on email is an excellent way to make exactly that happen in litigation. She may be playing a very clever game here...sending him unsolicited emails that include references to alleged disparaging remarks that he would not want to share with you. Sometime down the road, these emails are entered into the court record....you see the date stamp and freak out, because he was lying to you about no contact. You dump him, she gets her H/father that she is looking for.<P>3. If I were you, I would tell your H that you will decide AFTER the OC is born AND custody is established what sort of contact, IF ANY, with the OC you can stand and stay married, and that this will be regularly reviewed at your convenience. That you hope that things will get better with time, but that much of your pain right now is from his lying and lack of commitment, and if he wants your cooperation and goodwill toward any sort of relationship with the OC, he'd better start working on his commitment to you. Even then, no promises. And contact with the OW is totally verboten, now, later, forever. Tell him that you DO NOT trust him, that he has earned your distrust for now and the foreseeable future, and that he needs to have an open accounting of his time each day, phone records, emails, and anything else you may want to examine to assure yourself.<P>4. Reiterate that he is your soulmate, that you are willing to allow mistakes and still love him, even big freaking whopping mistakes, but he needs to commit to an honest and committed relationship gong forward, cuz he is on thin ice, brother.<P>

Mike C2. Why can't my husband think as clearly as you.<P>Should I give my H one more chance to stop contact one and for all before we see an attorney? What I don't want is a war to start over this. I don't need any added pressure to my life. I'm barely hanging on as it is. The OW initially made contact with my H through is e-mail account at work. She knows someone who works there who gave her the account. She also has my H cell phone number. Which I have the password to check. I will ask my H to look into changing his e-mail account at work. He could instruct her to e-mail us at home only during an emergency.<P>Is this good enough? Or should I quit pussyfooting around and hire an attorney. She keeps making reference to speaking to one. What do I do if I find out he's talking to her again? Why should I fight for someone who won't give me what I deserve? Just to keep this OW from having him? My H continually tells me even if we weren't together he wouldn't be with her. That he wouldn't be with anyone because his heart belongs to me.<P>I really hate the pitiful life I have and wish I could rebuild something I can be proud of. When do you know it's time to call it quits? Is there a sign? Does something in you shut down? Do you have an out of body experience telling you it's over? Your W is so lucky to have someone who knows the gift of marriage and what is has to offer. I hope she takes care of you. I can't express with words the direction you have given me and the strength to take another step. Thank you. Maybe I can make it through another day. LSM<P>------------------<BR>Lost Soulmate

lsm,<P>Listen to Mike, I would follow that list to the tee. You need to print that list and go over it, and follow through. That way you are on level ground. I hope that tomorrow is better for you. Try to stay positive. I look at areas of my life that seem to be overshadowed by this mess. Think how lucky you are to have your daughter. Thank God for your health. I always think this is bad, unless something happened to my child. Because she is happy and healthy, I know I can go on. Be glad for little things that are big problems in other peoples lives. Be glad that you can eat, and sleep in comfort. I know those don't seem like much, but it is easier to focus on the good things that we still have, to shed a little light into your heart and soul. Take care, your in my prayers.<P>babstr.

Mike C2[QUOTE]Originally posted by lostsoulmate:<BR><B>Mike C2. Why can't my husband think as clearly as you.</B><P>He's got a lot on his mind -- guilt, two angry women, major new responsibilities, a lifetime of shame ahead, to a certain degree. Don't forget that burden on him, in some corner of your heart.<P><B>Should I give my H one more chance to stop contact one and for all before we see an attorney? What I don't want is a war to start over this.</B><P>That's funny you say that. One time when I was served with papers for the one lawsuit I have had in my life, I went to a lawyer relative for counsel. I said the same thing, I just want this to go away, I don't want a war...he said "The war is already on. You need to defend yourself." I'll never forget that.<P>If this child is indeed your H's, you WILL be needing legal counsel. Get it now before you make any (more?) mistakes. <P><B>I don't need any added pressure to my life. I'm barely hanging on as it is. The OW initially made contact with my H through is e-mail account at work. She knows someone who works there who gave her the account. She also has my H cell phone number. </B><P>Your attorney should be able to make it crystal clear to her the ramifications of continued contact/harassment. If she sends another email to him, have him forward it to your attorney. Change the cellphone number.<P><B>Is this good enough? Or should I quit pussyfooting around and hire an attorney. She keeps making reference to speaking to one.</B><P>Interesting that she hasn't. Something whispers to me about paternity, particularly since you brought up that she has another guy in the picture. <P>Your H is sure he had unprotected sex with her? The dummy.<P>Yes, quit pussyfooting around about the lawyer. If your H won't talk to an attorney, you go do it. You have a dog in this fight, too, as does your child. Find out your rights. Get some advice. You are in a SERIOUS LEGAL and FINANCIAL situation, in addition to being in a marital and emotional crisis. The marital situation will not improve while the stress of the legal and financial situation rages undefined. Tackle it. I guarantee you will walk out that office with some direction and feeling better. <P>

LSM, you have gotten good advise from Mike. I would hope that you follow it.<P>From your first posts you have expressed how there has been mis-trust for years between you & your H. Continueing to participate in this back & forth stuff is not good. You get way to wrapped up in what he does & what she does. Forget them & take your own stand. You do "have a dog in this fight". It is for your future & your child's future. Quit trying to second guess what he is doing, saying, etc. Expect 100% truth and then don't question it. If he is lieing it will all come apart soon enough. At that point hold him accountable for what you know is fact. All the other stuff of wondering what he is thinking, doing, etc. is a waste of time. Only focus on what you have control of. Set expectations & then live by them. Expect him to live by what you need to have happen. If that cannot happen, then he may need to leave.<P>Please get up and follow Mike's advice. You will only feel better when this game is in your ball court. <P>Carolyn