Aside from health risks when should you accept the loss of your marriage and walk away even if in your heart you still love, cherish and honor your Spouse?<P>My H and I talked last night. He told me he wasn't sure he could give me what I need in order to heal. That he was trying and wants to but not sure what he gives is good enough for me. I'm not either.<P>It's so natural for me to do what I do for him because my heart tells me. Should I accept that I'm not getting what I need from my H because his heart doesn't feel the same about mine? When do you accept "what is" and walk away? I can't stand the suffering any longer. I know the wounds are fresh but I can barely make it through each day.

I think as long as you both are willing to work at it you still have a chance and should not walk away.<BR>I know that while the things are in transition it is hard to see the light at the end, but it is there. We are in transition and let me tell you it sucks.<BR>He is trying to be more honest and that would seem like a good thing but it's so hard for me to hear the truth. For me hearing how he really feels means i have to change and be considerate of his feelings. (not something i feel like doing right now)<BR>I also have to face the fact that he is not the rock i have always counted on. I actually have to face that he is human and cannot always make me happy. Sometimes he has to do what is best in the big picture instead of making me happy in the moment.<BR>I have read some of what you and you H have written. You both seem to want to make it work. You have to be very specific in what you need. You also have to thank him when he gives you it. (the thanking him part is hard for me, but it helps me see what he has done for me)<BR>Have you given him a written list of things you need from him? This helped my H because he can refer back to the list and see exactly what i need.<P>God be with you in your decision, He will give you wisdom and strength.

lsm,<P>You don't sound like you are doing too well. Just remember that just like any time of trauma, the first few months are the hardest. You are trying to make decisions on things that haven't happened yet. I know I do that all the time. I want you to sit and write down the pros and cons of being with your H, and being without him. Try to remove what could happen from your thoughts. I know he has alot of confusion in how he is going to handle things. But he really needs to make a decision so that you can look at your options. He feels because of what he is putting you through that he can't give you what you want. You are going to have try and heal. You cannot count on him to heal you. That is true with anything. You cannot think that a person can make things better for you, only you can help yourself. I know that support is always welcome and helpful. I think I am rambling, I need to collect my thoughts....<P>All I can say is it is all raw right now. I do believe you should look at all areas. What if this OC turned out to not be his?? Would he think things would be ok then? Is he planning on waiting till the baby is here to decided whether he should be involved? I truly believe that he HAS to decide where he stands. Almost all of the men, can make that decision. Is is guilt that is talking, or is true love and feelings towards this child? My H had no feelings because the child was conceived under false pretense. Our child was planned, and conceived in love, just like your own daughter. My H refers to this experience, as if he was a sperm donor. That might sound harsh, but he did not decide this. I have a hard time believing that your H puts this future child and your daughter on the same level. What is going to tell her. He should guilty about what she will have to face, what she will think of him, and what she will think of the OC. What does he say in regards to those questions. <P>I have said before, you sound like me. I don't blame you for not wanting to share your husband with anyone else. Does he ever discuss the fact that he could be hurting both families? Are not both children going to suffer having to live with these decisions that he made. I just wish things could be easier for you. You need to search deep down, and take control of your emotions and your life. If your H can decide now than you might be able to face this future together. If you know in YOUR heart that you cannot except this OC incorporated in your life, than you will have to make some decisions. I know your heart wants to be with. I don't think now is the best time to walk away, with all of being so new. Have you thought about taking sometime away, like go visit your family? Or some friends? Sometimes it is easier to think when you are not together so much. Just a few days, or a long weekend, to clear head. Then he too will have that time. If while your gone you miss him, and know you don't want to be without him, then that will give you some comfort. <P>I guess my perception changed in June on how I would handle things. When my uncle was killed, him and my aunt where in the process of a separation. He drank, and things just weren't well. But once the accident happened she said she realized how precious love was in this life, and she would taken back no matter what. She told all of us at the funeral to embrace the love you have in your life. Now I am not saying that you should go against your own feelings and beliefs. There are limits to everything. Try to do the list. My life without my H wouldn't be much happier. And right now there is a chance for future happiness. Do you walk thinking it could get worse? I know it is hard to be positive. But think about those small positives. Your daughter, her joy in being with both of you at this age. By the way totally out of context, is she pushing your buttons also? My daughter has been exerting her independance in everything. Having the will to deal with her "no nos" all day in this fragile mind can be difficult. But I still get a lot of joys and smiles watching her. Keep your head up, I am thinking of you.<P>babstr.<p>[This message has been edited by babstr (edited July 17, 2000).]

LostSoulMate<P>Hi! I've been reading your posts and can relate because my H made it very clear that he was going to be involved in OC's life. (He made it clear eventually. At first he didn't admit he wanted involvement which led to secret visits.) <BR> I didn't want to make any comments at first because really you know your H better than any one else here. At least he's being honest about his feelings.<BR>The OW would like nothing better than for you to walk away or make H walk away and in to her arms. I'm sure she has him feeling that the only way he can have a relationship with the OC is to have a relationship with her. Now your telling him - no contact whatsoever with her. Your H is being pulled in two opposite directions. (That's the way our counselor had phrased it with us.) This is my opinion but from reading your posts and your H's post it sounds like your H really loves you but just doesn't know how to be committed to you and be involved with OC too. Maybe he's wondering if this even possible. It is possible (speaking from experience) but maybe he needs guidance in that area - if you're willing to hang in there with him.<BR>My H has partial custody of OC and OC is here every other weekend. H picks him up and drops him off without me. I don't think I'm as brave as you are wanting to be responsible for pick and drop off, but the fact that H insists on me not being there bothers me - but not enough to give up on my marriage. As a "compromise" I have access to H at any time by cell phone. Really, this is not enough but for now I'm accepting it.<BR>Your H has to understand that it is possible for him to know his OC but at the same time put you first. I think he also needs to have patience with you. After all, this is not what you (or I) bargained for. <BR>It has been 3 years since D day for me and I admit I still have my moments every once in a while.

lsm,<BR>If you read in "After the Affair" by Janis Abrams Spring (!) you'll find sections about how devastating it is and how both of you may need to just 'go through the motions' of your marriage, so to speak, trying together without knowing if it will work, until your emotions settle down and catch up. I think what you are feeling is totally NORMAL, and she says in the book early on is NOT the time to make major life-altering decisions. <P>My H and I were separated for several months after Dday due to a military move, and I joined him on the condition that he was "on PROBATION" for 3 YEARS. I said I would try if he followed the recommendations I found from professionals: counseling, no contact unless I saw it, letting me know where he is at all times etc etc and more. and IT"S WORKING!!!<P>Hang in there awhile and you can always leave later, though I'd recommend checking into legalities of protecting yourself and any possible future child support for YOUR child. Some states give the largest award to whoever filed first.<P>Hope that helps. I wish you well.<p>[This message has been edited by Jenny (edited July 17, 2000).]

I have thought may times what life would be like without my H. It would be miserable. And it would take a long time to get over it but I would. Sticking around and witnessing the continued betrayal is misery in itslef and is eating away at my soul.<P>I realize my H can't heal me but he should be nursing me back to health. He needs to make the extra efforts to prove himself and show me he's committed. It won't be until I see this that I can begin healing. I can't keep starting "recovery" over every few weeks. <P>Babstr, yes my baby girl is pushing my buttons. I break down and wonder why god is punishing me. Maybe it's his way of telling me how stupid I am for accepting this type of treatment. But then I ask why can't he just take my feelings away so I just didn't care any longer.<P>CD, I fear I do not know my H best and do not know him to be the person I fell in love with. I fear that I use to know him and he has become someone else. Something else that I'm not willing to admit. Is he really the monster who won't set me free from the dungeon he put me in. Could I be wrong about the man I care so deeply for? Could I be in denial?

very good advice from everyone. i always learn so much. i know from my experience that sometimes i just want to leave. or i wish he would leave so i wouldn't have to make the decision myself. but when i am all alone and imagine my life never seeing him again, i completely change my mind. <P>i choose to stay with my husband because i love him and i believe firmly in marriage. i know he loves me, and that he is sorry for all the pain he has caused me. <P>i got scared when he went to the lawyer because the lawyer wants him to ask for visitation because it will supposedly lower his payments. i freaked, cried, didn't know what to do. i am not the bigger person in this i can tell you, i don't think i could handle it if my H wanted to be in the OC's life. i think he should support her financially, but i can't deal with a relationship. maybe i am selfish, i don't know. but i deal with that everyday. it kills me inside sometimes. so i told him to think hard about what he wanted, but that i can't do the step mom thing every other weekend. he reiterated that he wants no contact but the lawyer was pushing him into it. he said he wants no contact, and said he also feels like he was just a sperm donor. so i felt a little better. <P>but in that moment, i felt like my whole world was crashing in on me. like i was going to lose him in that instant. it was scary. and now i have decided i have to get better for me.<P>well, this isn't my post and i have rambled on. sorry, thanks for listening...<P>------------------<BR>happy_girl

lostsoulmate:<P>I just have a moment, but on one of the other boards there was a post where someone said "Yay! The OW is lovebusting!" That made me think. <P>Don't give the OW the opportuinity to rejoice over you driving your H to her. You will have the opportunity to pull up stakes and leave at any moment for the rest of your life. Don't make decisions now while this is all so fresh. <P>Where are you on the negotiations about contact with the OW? Have you talked to an attorney?<BR>

Mike, I have not been able to make contact with the attorney. We play phone tag and I can't really talk at work. But she recommended I got to the local courthouse and use the Disomaster (?sp) to determine what our CS would be, but I have not had a chance. Still working on it. H sent another no contact e-mail to OW yesterday. That he doesn't want to be involved with our without me. She of course sent a flaming e-mail back talking about how last time he sent a separate e-mail telling her he doesn't mean it, I made him do it, that he can't be without her. I reiterated in another e-mail not to make contact again or we will take necessary steps. Also let her know we wanted a DNA test. I stood by my H even though he could have easily done the same thing again. I'm taking all of your advice. I realize it's still too soon. But like I said my soul is being tortured and I will not continue to fight this battle alone. My H is aware as well. I have to draw this line and I'm doing it as I write these words. The next time I find anything or "feel" there are unanswered questions I'm giving up. If this happens again I will only know that these 2 people are sick and need help and belong together. I won't dwell that he will be with her because one day he will realize what I had to offer and know he lost the best thing that ever happened to him. And I'll have moved on with my life. Continuing to grow and heal the way I deserve to do. Hopefully my H opens his eyes and sees this now. Hopefully he will take the necessary steps and then some to mend my heart and nuture my soul. I'm sorry for being a weakling, but I just don't think I "want" to continue life as it is. I'd rather live alone and cry myself to sleep by myself. Because eventually I know I'd heal and find someone who would cherish me the way I cherish my H. I hope I'm not setting a bad example. I'm fighting more than I EVER thought I would. But each setback I get weaker and weaker. Please pray for me. I need some strength. LSM

LSM - I feel your pain, especially today when I feel discouraged and disgusted with the whole thing myself. Just know I am thinking about you. I feel the same way you do: two steps ahead and three steps back. I don't know what the answer is but I hope you find a soltion that helps you.<BR> Fondly Kris

lsm,<P>I hope you are doing better today. Just wanted you to know that I feel like throwing in the towel. I busted my H lying to me. Now granted all of the OW junk wasn't involved. But I told him I will not put up with his little white lies that he doesn't think mean anything. If I can't trust him, then it won't work. I went to get life insurance. I asked him several times if he had smoked at all because it would show up int he blood work and would cost too much. He told me to my FACE, no he had not. Well guess what, he lied. So the price for his life insurance went from $30 a month to $115 a month, which we of course cannot afford. I was ticked. I know that most people don't think it is a big deal. But the fact was he lied again. And of course now we don't have the life insurance which was for mine and my daughter's protection. So just want you to know that I truly understand the feelings of wanting to give up. I have to have trust, if it isn't there it will never work.<P>babstr.

THank you Kris for keeping me in your thoughts. I am so sorry we are in this place together.<P>Babstr, I don't know if you can consider today better. It's different. Did you read my response to Mike C2 above? My H told OW to get lost (again) yesterday. Why do I feel more today like leaving than I did yesterday? I'm sure it's because of what OW said but I feel so disgusted and above all this "drama" that I just want it out of my life. <P>I fully understand what you mean about your H lying about smoking. It's such a minor offense and he feels the need to lie. Why? You're left with missing pieces to your life's puzzle. Why can't they understand the extent at which they need to expose themselves for us to even begin to trust them. They should be "happy" to do so if what they tell us about wanting to commit to us is true.<P>When will my love bank finally be empty? Or do I need to start thinking with my mind and not my heart? Am I building the wall around my heart again? I can't take the crying. I can't take the sorrow. I can't take the betrayal. I can't take the emotions. I'm hanging on by my nails. Please pray my H helps me back up. If I pick myself up I'm going home alone. Think of me. I need your strength. LSM<P><p>[This message has been edited by lostsoulmate (edited July 18, 2000).]

Lostsoulmate:<P>I felt like you did at one time early in our recovery. I found out my spouse spent ten hours on the phone with OW (after he had come home, supposedly for good) while I was out of town. I still would give anything to know what that extremely lengthy conversation was about and what was said.<P>However, that was a year and a half ago and things are so different today, I am experiencing a joy and a closeness with my spouse I never would have believed could ever be recaptured. It took and is taking a lot of hard work and he is now actively fighting for us and walking through the fire because I remained steadfast and Plan A'd him to death.<P>Nothing worthwhile in life is easy, honey. It IS easier to give up and move on and most people do these days. No one fights much anymore for the important things in life...if it doesn't come easy, they give up and walk away. But, the rewards of staying the course, growing through the pain and getting through it is an indescribable feeling. <BR>The satisfaction of having your husband tell you that his mistakes are a horror to him that he will never understand and that he will spend the rest of his life making it up to you is something I wouldn't have missed for the world.<P>It takes months for this to occur but well worth the journey if a new compassion, understanding and profound closeness is the result. Jenny has experienced this first hand, and so have I.<P>I was angry, bitter, combative and resentful for months...Jenny can attest to that! But, in spite of all the difficulty we face today, we face it together and the bond we are creating is amazing. His appreciation of me is something I only dreamed of a year and a half ago. His remorse a healing balm.<P>Today, in spite of our immense problems, we are closer and more in love than I ever thought possible. He is like he used to be (he was wonderful) only much better. I call it David squared. I am regaining trust and he is making it all up to me. <BR>I do not beat him up verbally or make him feel as though he has to do things to make it up to me. He just does it and I happily accept it, with appreciation and tell him how much I admire him for taking responsibility for all his actions and how much I respect him for being able to do this.<P>It's a dance, Honey. Once you learn the steps, it's Fred and Ginger.<P>Stay strong, don't give up and make him see how amazing you are and how the OW pales in comparison.<P>Catnip =^^=<p>[This message has been edited by catnip (edited July 19, 2000).]

Catnip, well you have returned the favor. I needed that.<P>Today I feel as though my H will never open his eyes. Never say "he wants to spend the rest of his life making it up to me" Boy is that ever a dream of mine. I'm crying in happiness for you and in sorrow for me. Even though I have no hope today for these things to happen to me. Maybe they will and I'll be able to give this same advice to another newbie. I can't tell you what you've given me by responding to my post. A ray of light. Thank you for helping me to my feet. You've helped more than you will ever know. Hugs & Kisses. LSM

LSM:<P>Remember that I had no hope not so very long ago, myself. And it will take a lot of work on your part but I know you can do it and that you have incredible strength to get through this. <BR>And don't forget, regardless of what happens, at least if you have given it everything you've got, you will know in your heart, no matter what the outcome that you did everything in your power. There is a lot of freedom in that. <BR>God bless you and yours, LSM. Pray for God's will. He hates divorce and family disharmony and the actions of wayward spouses. One of my prayers was asking for God to open my husband's eyes, to life the fog and to see things the way they really are. Danged if he didn't.<P>One more thing; just a couple days ago my husband turned and looked at me and said, "You were like my guardian angel, you pulled me back from the brink of total destruction. If I would have gone through with the divorce and married her, I would have been in a hell...the worst part would be remembering you and all I would have lost. I would have missed you the rest of my life."<P>Those words are etched in my heart forever. I will pray someday soon you will hear something similar from your husband. It won't come easy but if you're smart, loving and lighthearted and have dignity, you will be irresistable.<P>Love<P>Catnip =^^=

Catnip. How I long to hear those words from my H. I've tried more than I could have ever imagined. Still am.<P>Somehow each morning I wake up. And my hearts still beats. I try to not to engulf my H in my plumets on this roller coaster. But it's hard when it's his words I long to hear during those times. And when I have no one to talk to. Other than you all. And I'm starting to feel like I'm taking advantage of that.<P>I'm not baptised nor do I attend church. But I believe there is a lord out there. I just chose to love and believe in him my own way. So how do I ask him to open my H's eyes? How do I ask him for help?<P>Now that I've stopped crying from your post. I can't tell you what happiness hearing this brings me. Hearing that your H has opened up his eyes and flourished from this blunder. I could tell you a thousand times how I'm so glad for you and that wouldn't be enough. Please pray for me catnip. I need your strength. I need your hope. Thank you. Hugs & Kisses. LSM

LSM: You are SUPPOSED to take advantage of what this site offers! Use it, use it, use it.<P>As for God, even if you don't feel that you are close to Him, He is close to you, knows your heart, feels your pain and wants your marriage to survive. Just because you haven't been 'formally' introduced to God through Church or Baptism or what-have-you, doesn't mean He doesn't know YOU or that you don't have a special place and purpose for being on this earth, because He does know you and you do have a purpose to fulfill.<P>LSM, God is a merciful God and sometimes things happen to us to draw us closer to Him...perhaps He's trying to get your attention and bring you closer to Him. Perhaps you are meant to learn something; like trust in Him...to pray to Him for comfort and guidance and healing and strength.<P>Start with the Lord's Prayer or just talk to Him. I still yell at God and complain "ain't it awful" and accuse God of conspiring against me. It is awful that I have done this, yet, I know He understands and forgives me and loves me anyway. He made me scrappy, for crying out loud, and He probably doesn't think much of me missing mass all the time....<P>Now, dry your tears and be grateful He brought you to this site and use the tools he gave you; i.e. Harley principles and trust that He will take care of you and your family. I will pray for you.<P>Love<P>Catnip =^^= <p>[This message has been edited by catnip (edited July 19, 2000).]

LSM: Honey - my heart just breaks for you. You sound just like me 3 years ago - and sadly enough I'm still where you are. Catnip has been wonderful for me and she has actually come out of this situation with perhaps a better marriage and much stronger! (which helps us weaklings) ha - seriously I can totally totally empathize with you. My H has not been honest with me at all and now 3 years past the time of D day - I am still in the same situation - I tried to Plan A - that is a very hard thing to do when you feel as if your H should be Plan A'ing you(?) I know it makes sense and all that but too hard - especially when every other week (in my case) there was something "suspicous" - seeing my H and OW meeting to give her $$$ (suppossedly) and seeing evidence of their constant communication - and it is still going on to this day - every other month it is another "promise" of no contact - I have come to realize that is not going to happen.<P>I have offered to be the go-between - I did not want to accept the OC - I wanted for the OW to give OC up for adoption - she was a single (living at home) 19 yr old with her whole life ahead of her - and now she has a 1 1/2 yr old son - by a married man and is doing her best to hold on to him with that child and with his "promises" of a future for them. He is either lying to her or lying to me or both and I'm hating him so much - I almost can't stand to look at him now - I think that if there is honesty from your H (and you'll know if there is) it can truly be worked out - no matter what you decide about OC. But while there is lies and it keeps happening - you'll be right where I'm at. I wish for my own sanity that I had just given up then and let him find his way back to me instead of me trying to make him happy. I hate your pain - you are still too fresh and too raw to make a life-changing decision.<P>You are numb - you are emotional, crying, hating, anxious - all those things that you are entitled to feel and it is a process - you've only begun the process - don't do anything yet - sit back and see what he does. Take it 1 day at a time and trust your gut! Your intuition is peaked and ready to help you out.<P>------------------<BR>

Thank you Catnip and DD. You both have been such support for me. <P>I'm trying to hold off an making any decisions. I am basing a lot of my decision on the past. Our growing up together took us through some hard times. Him being away at school, leaving his mothers nest, and so on. I've stood by him through it all. Only in the beginning did he make me first priority. That all changed after his first year at school. After our first year of dating. From that point on it was me fighting alone. He was along for the ride. I knew he loved me. I knew he cared deeply for me. But he found it was easy to take advantage of me because I was committed to him. He was young. Most men would have done the same. But I was as committed as I was today. I thought "some day he will open his eyes and see all that I am and have to offer and he'll thank the lord every day for bringing me to him". Well 12 1/2 years later I'm still waiting. This has been the ultimate destruction. But all the little things added up make me just look back at my life in disgust and wonder why I'm still around. Regardless of how deeply I love this person. I'm taking things so slowly I can't even express. Like another member said you have to give him enough rope to hang himself. My problem. I know he'll be sorry when he's done it and I'm gone. I keep trying to help him keep from hanging himself yet each time he does I cut him down.<P>No more. It's been too long. I have too much to offer. While I want to offer it to my H no question I will no longer do that if he's not honest with me and won't meet my EN's going forward. Even my most important need, to feel his love for me, to feel his committment.<P>I'm sorry gang. I'm holding on now and walking along side my H but he's doing the driving. We've had some really good times over the years and some bad ones. I'm afraid this "mistake" tips the scales on my list. Unless my committment to him is returned twofold I'm not being fed anymore Bullsh_t. In the interim, I'm here and if he chooses to fight the battle together I'll fight to the death. If not, I'm surrendering and moving on to fight my own battles. Please pray that my H is now seeing me for who I am and not the child he met 12 years ago. You guys are all I have to carry me through the tears. Thank you. Hugs & Kisses. LSM<p>[This message has been edited by lostsoulmate (edited July 20, 2000).]