I wish that anyone who reads this who has had a similar situation occur in their marriage would answer with some advise. It isn't unlike middleman's Lou's situation as I've been reading his situation for sometime. I'm the one who had an affair, although it wasn't an on going thing, just a one night huge mistake I made. I feel more guilty and have had a much harder time forgiving myself than my husband has, I think. He is having a very hard time, understandably, because I am now pregnant. I don't or havn't had any relationship with this other guy and he has a hard time believing that I would have just slept with someone I just met, for a one night thing, but that is what happened. We've been married for 3 years and I love my husband very much. We began drifting apart somewhat over the past year due to building 2 houses and stres, etc, etc, No Excuses, what I did was very wrong and I know I've hurt my husband deeply. I know if we can work through this I'll have to rebuild his trust in me and I know that will take time. We had been trying to get pregnant for about 1 1/2 yrs now and were just talking about using artificial insemination via a sperm donor when this happened. He has asked if I planned to get pregnant and it was the farthest thing from my mind. I just felt alone and like I wasn't connecting with him like we used to. I know now that I should have talked with him more about those feelings and we should have worked them out together before. I did try to tell him that with all the construction going on I felt like I was going crazy and hated going out to the job sight any more. Anyway, the hardest time he is having now is with the baby and while I understand I've been crying and been depressed and I know it isn't good for the baby or me during this preganancy. When we dont' talk about the baby we get along so great and our relationship is almost back the way it was over a year ago. I feel like I've fallen in love all over again. I've told my husband that it is up to him if he wants to leave me, however he says he loves me very much and really wants to work it out but doesn't know how. We have been going to a local counselor and it has helped some but he is still confused and doesnt' know how to accept the baby although he says he wants to.<P>Any advise for those of you who have been through this would be most helpful,<P>thank you.<P>sloth

sloth,<P>I am not in this situation, I was just curious, are you positive it isn't your husband's? Do you know the date that you got pregnant thru a sonogram? The end of this could be good news, it could be his. Just curious.<P>babstr.

babstr,<P>thank you for a reply. No I don't know for sure that the baby isn't my H. He feels pretty sure it isn't his. He had a vasectomy reversal 1 1/2 yr ago and at one point a doctor tested his sperm count and said it was low but pretty good. More recently he had a friend of his at the lab at our local hospital check another specimen and he told my H that there were no signs of life at all. So, he is pretty much convinced. I also pointed out to him that I think this child has a chance of being his. He wanted me to have an abortion, telling me that of course it was my decision and then we could try to get pregnant again later. I first of all don't believe in abortion and secondly how stupid would it be to kill one life and then try to conceive another? The method would be via AI w/ a sperm donor anyway. So, I've just been so confused. I really considered the abortion if I could keep my husband. I love him very much and really want to make our marriage work, however every time I think of an abortion it makes me sick and I don't think I could live with myself. This was my mistake, not this babies. My husband says he doesn't hate the baby and thinks sometimes he could work it out, it's just that he is vasilating from being ok with it to withdrawing totally and he says he doesn't know how to deal with it. I told him I think it will take time. He also thinks that there is no one else in this situation, only him. That he has never known anyone in his whole life that has ever been in this situation. I told him it isn't something you tell everyone about. If we have this child together we will probably inform people that this baby was conceived via artificial insemination as I don't even know how to contact the father (if he is the father) if I wanted to.<P>any more advise for us, greatly appreciated,<P>sloth

sloth,<P>You can have an amniocentisis before birth and conduct a DNA test on it. You will then be able to determine if your husband is not the father with 100% accuracy. If you don't want to risk an amniocentisis (they do have risks), you could wait until the child is born before conducting a DNA test.<P>Now, while all this is going on, your H should probably have his sperm count checked a couple more times. My guess is that it would be a lot easier to accept an OC if he was truly infertile.<P>IMO, the best case scenario is that the child is your H's. The second best scenario is that the child isn't your H's, but he is infertile anyway and he'll be able to rationalize this child as not much different from one you would have conceived through AI. The worst case scenario is that this child isn't your H's, but your H is quite fertile indeed.<P>Your case is interesting in that you can't even identify the biological father. The husband is nominally the father of the child because of the notorious "assumed paternity" laws. Now, *normally* in these situations, the W can identify the OM. So the H is stuck deciding whether to stick the OM with child support payments (and deal with the OM getting visitation), or whether to squander his right to deny paternity and try to rebuild his marriage. IMO, given the current laws, if there are no other children, the H should demand that the OC be put up for adoption on pain of formally denying paternity and suing for divorce.<P>But your case is weird - you can't identify the OM. I'm left wondering if your H can legally deny paternity (which would prevent you from ever collecting child support from him, unless he decides to adopt the child later) and still remain married to you. That strikes me as a reasonably fair outcome in this case. You know, I think you should see a lawyer on this one.<P>Bystander<p>[This message has been edited by Bystander (edited August 15, 2000).]

SW:<P>My suggestion is to have your husband come to this site and look up postings from the men on this board who are experiencing or have experienced what you two are going through--successfully. Look for any postings by K, Paul Moyers and Bystander for legal and bring your husband here to read them. You'll both gain a lot of insight.<P>Good luck<P>Catnip =^^=

bystander:<P>thanks for your "legal" information. my H has yet to get on here and read all of this, I hope he will do so tonight. I don't think he wants to get a divorce. I think he'd have a hard time "forcing" me to put this child up for adoption if it wasn't in joint agreement with me. Also, I make a good income and have no intentions of creating any "forced paternity for reasons of child support" on my H if in fact he makes a decision to leave me it will be all of me and the child, no strings. We have no children together, he has 2 grown now.<P>Catnip: Thanks for the assistance and pointing me in a direction that may give new insight to my H and I. I hope they will answer my plea for help.<P>Thanks.<P>SW

<BR>sloth writes:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I make a good income and have no intentions of creating any "forced paternity for reasons of child support" on my H if in fact he makes a decision to leave me it will be all of me and the child, no strings.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Sloth, you needn't be proactive about any of this...The notorious assumed paternity laws do all the evil work for you. To wit, if you EVER change your mind about "no strings attached" and the marriage ends, then he's going to be nailed to the income shares cross for 25% of his net income for the next twenty years in child support. You can see his dilemma, right? How can he trust your claims that you won't nail him for child support (for someone else's child!) on the very heels of you betraying him? By the time he can know whether to trust you, he will have totally squandered his right to litigate paternity.<P>Btw, I don't mean to sound belligerent about this, its just that I think the assumed paternity laws need to be repealed precisely because of the situation you just subjected your H to. Its also why I (unpopularly, at times) recommend men leave such situations.<P>Bystander

slothwoman,<P>I usually don't read in this section, as it isn't a topic I am familar with. However, there are several men on this board in the same situation as your H. Further "momma" is in your situation. I have enclosed her latest posting her because within it are some more men in your H's situation or one like it. In addition to K, and those listed under momma's posting, I believe "Beerman2" is also in your H's situation. In fact you may want to post in the general questions section to get some feed back from K and others.<P>Just click on "momma"<P><A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum35/HTML/000104.html" TARGET=_blank> momma </A><P>I must say you are in a very unfortunate situation. Is this your first child? If so then perhaps I should mention a few things to you. They are obvious, and many here know them but perhaps repeating them will give you some ideas on how to proceed.<P>First, men don't bond with babies until they are born. In the case of your H this will undoubtably true. Your H really will need to know how and why this one night stand occured. Slothwoman, he will have a very hard time getting over this, but if it is really random, then how will he ever recover confidence in you?<P>Please do get the testing done. The affair is bad enough, but if it is at all possible that it is, then do find out. You may get a pleasant surprise .<P>Do keep posting and try to get your H to post. The people here will do their best to help both of you.<P>Take care of yourself and your H,<P>God Bless,<P>JL<P>PS: You can search for many of their stories using the search command. In NSR's general welcome, found in the "Just Found Out" section there are many bookmarks to notable stories. Within there you will find a particularly strong one by Paul Moyers and others.

JL: thanks for your input. I did look up Momma and it was good to read some past input from Ronman and bystander, etc. You guys seem to have a good, well rounded group. I do know that it will be hard for my H to trust me again. I was married before and to a very abusive man, both mentally and physically for 3 years and never with him or any other man in my life have I ever had an affair. My H now is such a good man and I love him. The only reason I can find within myself and as I have told him for this affair was that I felt removed from him. We were not spending any time together hardly at all and not talking. I felt lost and lonely. No excuse for what I did, but I do know that if we follow general guidlines that our counselor has laid out, pretty basic stuff, talk when your upset, talk when your lonely, share your fears, feelings and get through the trials and tribulations together. I think we can, I know I can be faithful to him and all I can do it spend the time, do the work to insure that he can trust in me again. He too says he felt us slipping apart. I told him I felt very alone, but I thought I could handle it. So, I've explained everything to my H as best as I can as to the "why" this happened. Our conselor has advised that all the "details" need not be brought out as far as the night it actually happened because that would only hurt my H worse. I cannot stand to hurt him anymore than I already have. I could never go through this again, it is literally tearing me apart. I do sometimes think it would almost be best if I had a miscarriage and with all the stress and anguish we've been going through it isn't a far stretch. I think what my H needs right now is to read through some of the posts that several people have listed, as you suggested, and go from there. I will try to see if he will do it tonight.<P>thanks again for any input from you all.<P>SW

SW,<P>One thing that is commonly mentioned in the Harley material is complete honesty with the spouse. Your counselor may be right, you don't need to give more details that your H wants, but if he asks for more details, it is recommended here that you provide them.<P>However, the details probably pale compared to the pregnancy anyway. SW, it occurs to me you should be aware of somethings, and you probably already are, but I feel I must mention them.<P>Right now you are focussing on saving your marriage. You H is focussing on whether he can survive these events and remain in the marriage. But if it looks like you are making progess, then don't forget the simple but important fact. Pregnancy, even under the best of circumstances, puts a tremendous strain on the marriage. This seems to be particularly true for men. Many many affairs start while the W is pregnant.<P>You need to be aware of this and understand that women, quite reasonably, begin to focus on the new child that is coming, they then really focus on the child once it is born. All of this is very reasonable, but many times the H is just ignored, and moves down the ladder with each child. This means little or no sex, not time together, and very little affection from the W. W is very tired, hassled, and really doesn't want to deal with H.<P>Now all of this is reasonable, up to a point, but women do go overboard with some of this. <BR>Add to these normal stresses, your situation. Your H is questioning if you ever loved him. Your H is questioning if he has what it takes to keep you happy: he has already failed once and look at the result. Your H is wondering what other people think of him and what you really think of him. Couple all of this with the possibility that Child is not his, and you have a very insecure person. <BR>Finally, he really doesn't want to be needy, and dependent on you. Yet he is. <P>You can see that the tendency is to cut the loses, regain a little face, and leave. Please pay attention to these things. If you can get him to talk do so and then just listen, don't say anything. <P>If you ask him a question about all of this, don't speak up just sit and wait for him to answer, it may take a minute or two but just let the silence set there. I know this is hard, but if you want to rebuild this marriage, he is going to have to get stuff out, learn that he can lean on you, and he will have to learn to trust himself again.<P>SW, pay attention to the details. He has a lot to overcome, mainly within himself. Some of this is very fundamental to the very core of human being and for that matter many other animals. Paternity is a very deep seeded thing and he will have to sort that out. He will need your help there.<P>So hang in there, keep posting and if you can do get him to post. Sorry to be so long winded.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

slothwoman:<P>I posted on the other thread. I forgot to mention that in my absence, JL is fully licensed to speak for me---he has terrific insight.<P>Paul Moyers comes back only rarely (at least as a poster)---I hope he feels his ears burning...

JL.. I know that K said he'd be out for 10 days or so on vacation, wish I was on vactation right now. I'm finding it very hard to concentrate at work now. My H and I have vacation planned at the end of this month and I hope we are to a point to enjoy it by then. <P>I talked to my H last night and he read many of the postings on here. He didn't feel like he wanted to write anything yet, I guess. He isn't very computer savvy and cannot type, so I think he is a bit insecure about this mode of communication. I had an appointment last night and left him alone to read all that I could find on anything in the past that K had written. He asked me if it helped me to read this and I said, yes. I was really interested in the forum more for him, however and was hoping that he'd take a more active interest. He is very willing to work on our issues and try to repair the marriage. He just says that the child has added so many more complex issues to the already hard ones that are dealing with our marriage now. He and I did sit here and read through the LB and the Emotional Needs sections, most all of the concepts that Dr. Harley teaches. I did print out the questionnairs last night and we have agreed to work on them together. He didn't sleep much at all last night and had a very bad morning, down, depressed, not sure what our future holds and whether he can get through it or not. I feel like I'm on a roller coaster ride that I made us get on and we can't get off. I wish I could make the ride stop and I can't. I've told him through thoughts, tears and many hours of emotional conversations how sorry I am that I jeopordized our marriage and how much I love him and want to work this out. He leaves me nice notes and says the same, yet he vasilates from being really up or really down. I know that it will take time and maybe a lot of it to get through all of this. The counselor that we are seeing was talking about not being in the "wallowing" of the problem, but to have what she called, "clean pain" and that is where we learn and go forward and grow with this together. I still feel like I'm walking on egg shells and that at any minute that he could walk in the house and say I'm leaving. I would do anything to keep him, because I know that I made a huge mistake to risk such a wonderful person such as my H. He really is very good to me most all the time and I already feel that our marriage issues are on the mend, the baby is such an added strain right now for him and I guess me too, but I'm already growing to love the baby and cant imagine anything else. I have told my husband that if I had to have an abortion to keep him, I would. Since then I've told him that I don't think I could. He understands and it really isn't what he wants either. He just wants to be able to accept it he says but doesn't know how. One day last week he bought me a baby magazine and then he said he could never give it to me, that it hurt too much. Then yesterday he was talking about maybe planning to get a live in nanny and other child care options. Then a few minutes later when I talk about wanting to get an appointment and that it is time to establish a relationship with an OBGYN Dr. he is really upset and depressed again. He says he doesn't want to feel this way but doesn't know how to over come it.<P>I did ask him how he was feeling about all of this and then just shut up and really listened to him as you suggested. These are all the things he has said. I know he loves me a lot and I really wish I could help him through this??<P>Any more advise would be nice,<P>Thanks,<P>sw

SW,<P>You know I am going to say something that will sound strange here. You can not help your H through this. It is sad but true. You put him in this situation, but you cannot help him with the problems it has caused inside of him.<P>SW, you can be kind, loving, open, and very honest with him. He needs all of those things, but he will have to reach an accomodation within himself about all of this.<P>You mentioned that he had two grown children, that implies that he is older than the usual new Dad. It also means he has gone through being a father. That is good news and bad news. It means he knows what it takes, and perhaps he fears he cannot do it again with this added factor. He knows he will lose you in many ways, once the child is born: that is normal. I know you don't realize this, but it is true. It means financial responsibility that he may have not been ready for as yet, although you were trying to get pregnant.<P>You see part of this is the reality of being a parent. Women react differently than men to this reality in the beginning. So I suspect he is dealing with this as well. He is dealing with the affair and he is dealing with can he handle the constant reminder of your affair for the rest of his life.<P>The answer is that he probably can deal with these things, there will be a price, but he can. He just has to decide this for himself. Once that child comes and gets old enough to respond to him and learn to love him, then much of this will go away.<P>If you want to read a very interesting story and in the end very heart warming, go to the archive section of this board and look up "LTaylor". She didn't post too many times, but she faced telling her daughter that her "father" wasn't her biological father. The "father" knew he wasn't and perservered through the trauma of it all.<P>Don't push your H to post here, but I suspect if he reads here he will become more comfortable. One thing that helps if one doesn't type well is to use a word processor to compose the posting, spell check it, and then copy and paste into the response section. It does work.<P>SW, treat yourself and your H well. Reassure him that you want more out of this than just a baby, any ones baby. Reassure him that you are learning the tools that will prevent the affair from happening again. And then give it time, it will take time for him to accomodate himself to this situation. Heck, it does for many fathers when there are no complications. <P>God Bless,<P>JL

JL,<P>Thanks for the input last night. My H & I both read it together. He agree's with some of what you said. Still doesn't want to post here, I said ok, no pressure. I asked about talking with Steve or Jennifer Harley re: some phone counseling and he said he'd like to continue on with the counselor we are seeing here in town, so that is what we will do, have another scheduled appt. for next week.<P>H was filling out the Love Busters Quest. last night after I went to bed and got to the part about annoying behavior re: from snoring to infidelity and he lost it. H came to bed very upset again and said he couldn't quit thinking about my A with OM. He brought up the fact that we spent a nice weekend together over the 4th of July which was only a few days before my one night A happened. He said he thought I was happy then and I explained that I was that weekend but it didn't fix all the stuff that had been going on for months before. The withdrawal from our relationship, no communication, no time spent, etc. But he still can't understand it, perhaps I cannot either. I've spent the last 12 hours beating my self up over it again and again, only wishing I could change the past.<P>I know that I need to do forward thinking and concentrate on what I can do in the future to make sure this never happens again and I am committed to doing WHAT EVER it takes to acheive that. If I get the chance. Now he wants to leave for a couple of nights and spend them alone so he can think. I said ok, what ever he needs. Unfortunately every time he spends time alone he dwells on the past so much that he gets angry again and wants to leave. Shoud I just not worry about it? I'm so scared to lose him. I don't want him to leave. I know he may need the time alone and I will support him any way I can. I just hope it isn't destructive to our marriage.<P>Thanks for the God Bless's. I got on my knees and prayed today, for many things but above all else for forgiveness. I really feel the need to be a part of a church body again and will make efforts to do that, hopefully with my H soon.<P>As always, your advise is helpful.<P>SW

SW,<P>You haven't really posted a time line of when things happened but if it happened shortly after the 4th of July and you two had a good time together then, I can see where you H is having problems. This is all so new. Worse, I'll bet he feels he cannot trust anything, especially not himself.<P>WS, you may not realize this but right now I'll bet your H feels he cannot trust his own feelings and intuition. He thought 4th of July thing went well. You were happy, and then boom and affair and another man's ?? child to deal with.<P>I will repeat most of this he will have to endure on his own. If he feels he needs a few days away right now, then let him. WS you cannot heal him, only he and God can do that. I think church would be an excellent idea for both of you.<P>You have very few decisions to make. You have decided to have the child and keep it. You know that the child is part of you, and that obviously was important or you would have decided to adopt rather than go through the other procedures. But going to church will undoubtably provide comfort and help ease the guilt of what has happened.<P>I will tell you one thing though. The hardest thing for your H, is he still doesn't know why it happened. If you were just sad and decided to find someone else, how can he ever expect to make you constantly happy. He knows life is tough, but when it gets tough where will you be? That is his question.<P>I guess I would suggest, you talk with your counselor and dig deeper about this. If you can causually sleep with a man you don't know without protection, just because you were sad, then your H will not have much hope. I suspect there is more and deeper things at play and it would help him if you knew what they were.<P>Your H needs to go to church because he faces tremendous decisions and a I suspect only God can provide the answers he is seeking. He loves you, but hates you. Can he really be a good H, he has obviously failed already? Can he raise another mans child? And face the reality of his failure everyday? Will it become you and the child against him as the marriage progresses? Is he strong enough or good enough to deal with the affair, the child, and a W he knows he doesn't please?<P>These are very heavy questions, WS. It will take time for him to find the answers. You can help him though. Be patient, love him when he will let you. Do your best to understand his confusion. You will really never know how he feels, because you have never been in this situation. However, the ladies in this forum have been where he is, and they can help you.<P>WS, one final thing. As much as you feel you owe your H, make sure he treats you with respect. Yes, he will be angry, he will be mad, but it should go to physical abuse. Make sure you draw the lines where they need to be drawn. You have made a great mistake but you shouldn't be abused for it.<P>Hang in there, let him think, go to counseling, start going to church, and do your best to love him.<P>God Bless,<P>JL<P>PS: Do get a DNA test as soon as you can. He really could still be the father, that would really help, by leaving only the affair to address.