I don't know where to begin. I first found out about my husband's affair 4years ago. I came home from work one evening and was fixing dinner for my kids when the phone rang. This woman told me I didn't know her but she was calling to tell me that she'd just had my husband's baby two weeks earlier and she just wanted me to know. Needless to say I thought this must be some sort of sick joke..but I quickly realized it wasn't. She told me her name and the baby's name. I hung up and immediately called my husband at work. He came home immediately. He admitted everything. That he's slept with a co-worker and he'd soon broken it off after only one time. He claimed that she'd soon been fired from the job and continued calling him trying to get together. After a few months, he said she called and stated that she'd had his baby and wanted money. I told her she was a liar..that it couldn't be his because he'd used a condom. He said she threatened to call me (wife) if he didn't acknowledge and payup for the baby. He called her bluff and she called me. Well...while still in shock I threw every stitch of his clothing out the door and yelled and screamed and cried for all the neighborhood to hear. My children were devasated and confused. He called every 15 minutes throughout that night. Days later, I eventually did talk to him. Days after that, I let him move back in but sleep on the couch for weeks. Throughout all of this, he swore that the baby wasn't his. The ow was also married and he insisted it was her husband's baby. Time passed and she'd called our home a few times...once when I was able to pick up the phone and I told her if she ever came anywhere near my husband, me or my family again, I'd rip her head off her shoulders with my hands...and I meant it. She never called again. Time passed and it was a very long and painful journey back to being able to even have a morsal of respect and trust for my husband again. He gave me his word he'd never see her again or ever cheat on me. He begged for my forgiveness and I had to reach deep in my heart to find it. But somehow, through God's grace I did...I still loved my husband and wanted to make our marriage work. Later that year we moved to another city about 3 hours away because my husband got a job promotion. Things had gotten better over time, but I still had my setbacks and painful memories. But I continued to pray and try to move on with our lives. Now, here we are, 4 years later. Things have been so good between us. Our children are getting older and more independent and my H and I have bonded in a way that I never thought would happen again. He has honored our marriage and has made a new commitment to us. Things were good. Then it happened. We got a letter in the mail a few months ago from state attorney office in the city where we lived. My husband was being sued for paternity by this "thing" that he'd slept with. she was still claiming that she'd had his child and wanted child support. My husband stood by his story about this baby not being his. He'd practically convinced me. Needless to say this stirred up all the old painful feelings inside and brought back all the hurt. I was angry again. But this time I wanted closure. I insisted that my husband have a DNA test done to put an end to this. He requested it and it was approved. He had it done in mid july, 2000. We had to wait 6 weeks. The results came in the mail last Friday. 99.5% that he is the father!!!! About a week before the results came in, my husband got mail from this "thing" that he slept with. A long rambling letter about how she has prayed for peace and healing in our household and that she hopes he will be a part of "their" daughter's life and how cute and cuddly this now 4y/o is. She sent pics...I didn't see a resemblance at first...maybe I didn't want to. but after the results came in...I saw the resemblance. I ripped the pictures up (which is what my husband wanted to do all along). My husband now has a daughter that should never have been fathered by him. I have been crying and numb for the past 4days. I won't talk to him. He's begged and pleaded for me to just talk to him. He's apologized and begged for my forgiveness and <BR>begged me not to leave him. I cannot begin to tell you the pain and hurt and betrayal I feel. Although I know you all know the pain of betrayal all too well. But now on top of this, I have the sad reality that he fathered a child while having this adulterous relationship. I'm heartbroken and so very sad. My feelings run the gamut of anger, rage, sorrow for what's lost between us after 4 years of mending, and more anger and rage. I managed to go to work but only my body is there. I still love my husband. But I could never love this child that was born from his adultery...and he knows that. I told him many times. Another thing, he finally admitted to me now that he didn't just have a one night stand with this woman...he admits to sleeping with her four times. For me, that was also devastating. One time, I could attribute to a stupid mistake...more than once, you planned it..it was premeditated. I'm so hurt and devastated by all of this. The last 4 years have been good ones. We've re-bonded in a way that is wonderful and I feel that our marriage is stronger than ever. However, I'm still hurt by all this all over again. I could live my life without any guilt or remorse over never having that child be a part of our lives. I really believe my husband could, too. He knows that any relationship with this child would mean contact with this "thing" that he slept with. And that could NEVER be. It would destroy our marriage for sure. He does not want to risk that. I have made an appointment with a counselor for later this week to see. I have to begin my healing ... again. This time, more for me than for anyone else. by the way, we've been married for 12 years and have two children, one from a previous marriage (mine) and one from us together. He also already pays child support for his two children by his first wife. Any input or suggestions or advise would be greatly appreciated. Sorry about the length of this post. God bless

Comfort: Never apologize for long post...I'm the Queen of long postings. I never apologize.<P>Just when you thought it was safe to get back into the water, you get eaten by sharks. <BR>Your post bothered me a lot. I found it so upsetting that this had been set aside for four years only to resurrect and rear it's ugly head once again. I feel so, so terribly bad for you. It must be like reliving it all over again.<P>Well, Comfort, the best thing about this is that perhaps you live in a state where the presumption of paternity belongs to this woman's husband. If he has been raising it for four years as his own, check with a lawyer and see if this can continue instead of broadsiding you at this late date. I am hoping your husband can be exempt from this because of the length of time and that the child has been living under this other man's roof all this time.<P>I completely understand your feelings about the OC. As a coincidence, we have been discussing at length what our responsibilities are to the OC, what our spouse's responsibility is to the OC...please read the post from the past few days to get a feel for where the mindset is.<P>If you want your marriage to work and to continue, start using Harley's principles and get your marriage strong and healthy to weather this storm. If your husband is truly remorseful and has been working overtime over the past four years to repair and restore, he needs some reinforcement from you.<P>Finding out they had sex four times rather than one is a moot point even though it proves the premeditation you cited. If your husband's behavior proves to you over the past four years that he sincerely regrets what he did, you will have to see if you can find it in your heart to forgive and move on if you can. This is a difficult situation for sure. Because of the deception and the gross violation of trust, you wonder what else he is hiding from you. Don't do anything rash. You're in shock right now, you're angry and hurt...and scared to death.<P>Stay here and read all the postings you can and read all of Harley's principles and start working to ground yourself and to decide for yourself how much you want to save your marriage. We are all here for you and will do whatever we can to help you get through this awful time. I am so sorry, Comfort. Just keep coming here as often as you can.<P>Catnip =^^=<P>

Catnip,<P>Thank you so much for your supportive and warm reply. I really appreciate it so much. I don't know what the laws are here in Florida where we live, but I really ought to find out. I just thought that since the DNA has proven positive, that there is no other recourse. I'll look into it. I am very skilled at finding out information. Thank you for the good advise. I still love my husband very much. He has worked overtime in the past 4 years to repair and restore what we had. My trust and respect for him was slowly but surely returning. I know in my heart and my gut that he regrets what he did and that he would never hurt me like that again. I hesitate to say "never" because I never thought he'd do it in the first place. But I do know that he knows how close to losing me and our family he came. I truely don't believe he'd ever risk that again for anything. It is still painful..and I'm still "sore". I don't want to be bitter and I'm looking deep in my heart to find forgiveness again because like you said, I'm reliving the entire thing as though it happened just last week. I have read many of the posts about the OC and I have found much solice and comfort in the fact that I'm not alone in my feelings about not wanting to have any connection or involvement with the OC. Not wanting her to be a part of my life, or my husband's. I know she's innocent and didn't ask to come to the world, but I have to think about myself and my children first. She would be nothing more than a painful and constant reminder of betrayal and deception in my life, and I have enough to deal with. I can't and won't deal with having to make room in my life and heart for a child that should never have been born...at least not fathered by my husband. That alone is more than I want to deal with. But that's a reality that I can't change and have no control over. The OC in my/our lives...I DO have control over. Thank you for responding to me. I need all the support I can get. I'll visit this board often, I know I've found a good place and I'm thankful.

Dear C,<P>I am very sorry to read the pain that has come back to rip your heart again.<P>The hurt of trusting a husband and not thinking he would do such a thing goes with the territory of being trustworthy ourselves. <P>I know how you feel and your husband's remorse and repentance will help more than some WS's indecisivenss to save the marriage. Mine actually said that in his impulse, drunken state, foolishness and stupidity, he turned from the pure water at home and drank from the sewerage at work, and since then was unable to get out of the sewers because of the horrible OW's threats to inform me.<P>Sounds familiar?<P>I feel your pain, my WS's A was almost 2 years' long, and how many times, maybe 100, I am still trying to find out.<P>I know you are at the right place here altho betrayers lurk here and some WS lurk without the spouse's notice (I think mine is doing so recently).<P>God bless and help you.<BR>Take care.<P>

Comfort,<BR>My heart goes out to you, as it does to everyone in this sad mess. I believe adultery is such a soul-murdering experience for everyone involved. Not that you can't recover, because you can, but it is SOOOO painful. Please be kind to yourself at this difficult time. <P>I'm going to make suggestions that you can take or leave. Of course you should get legal advice per FL law, pay child support as necessary and protect your finances to any extent possible (unfortunately some are forced to divorce to protect wife's assets). Counseling is often a good idea too, esp. if your children are being affected.<BR> <BR>I want to suggest a letter to the XOW, but before you can do that, you'll have to write one(or several!) that you DON'T SEND in which you pour out your anger at the XOW; you can call her XYZ and tell her where to go and how to stuff it! In a calmer mood, I suggest writing a reply to the XOW in which you wish the OC well, [This is important even if difficult. It may take some sting out of it for the XOW, who can TRULY cause more havoc if they want to, and is a nice kind of "goodbye wish" for the OC, who may or may not having feelings about this when she's older. You can say something like you are sure the OC is a swell kid, but you hope OC has some other loving male role model in her life, or that you wish her a long and happy life, or whatever sounds sincere.], that you will pay financial support to the extent required by law, but then make it CLEAR that further contact with XOW and OC would damage your marriage and therefore canNOT be tolerated/is NOT welcomed; both H and wife should sign it! Maybe even notarize it and send it registered mail, in case she harrasses you later. If possible you might include a third party she can contact should that be necessary, such as your lawyer or a counselor so that she has no more excuse to contact you directly. Be completely civil but firm and you will be so PROUD of yourself for not sinking to their low levels!! Take what works for you and leave the rest.<P>Hang in there and keep posting. We care. <BR>Jenny,<BR>(just passed year 2 of recovery-yea!)

I'm so very very sorry for the obvious pain that you're experiencing. There is possibly nothing worse than to have some steps in recovery and then to be totally knocked off your feet again- and feel like you're starting back from ground zero. It is very very understandable that you want no contact with OC. And even though in my situation - I did have contact with OC and it has turned out "okay", I originally felt like you. (and in hindsight, I truly believe that is the "only" fair choice). I think it is 'confusing' to the OC to have a "shared" father and family that is part-time, plus it is very damaging to the marriage family and the healing process. The fact that your H has been bending over backwards for the past 4 years is admirable! (what I wouldn't give for that). It truly sounds like he is remorseful and has no interest in this OW whatsoever. (that's always a +). Now - sit back and take a deep breath. Think of the good times and the good things in your marriage. They are still there, only slightly buried by this recent boulder that feel from the sky. I would think that the paternity would be automatically assume to be the husband - however, you might check up on the FL laws (like Catnip suggested). My "mess" has been going on for about 3 years now. My H is piece of work - has had no remorseful feelings and is possibly still in a relationship with OW and OC and includes our 3 year old D in the loop. You have a lot to be thankful for (even though it sure doesn't feel like it right now!)<P>Get yourself educated as far as the child support - seek counsel. It seems as if your H will be a great teamplayer with you in getting all this "mess" ironed out - so that you can put it behind you and move forward. Don't let the past four (4) years be in vein. Gather strength and reassurance from the fact that he has been diligently working on your marriage and the trust that he lost. You are going to be okay. I can feel it. I know you are so low now - the situation you're in is perhaps the most devestating situations I can imagine. Just pamper yourself and your emotions. You are in shock; don't make an drastic decisions. Come here to vent, ask questions and just for moral support. Believe me - it has been a lifesaver for me. I'm so very very sorry for your pain - believe me I can feel it. Know that you have a "family" here who know what it really feels like to be in your shoes.<P>------------------<BR>

Dear Comfort41:<P>1) Is the OW's H still living in their home?<P>2) Has he been the "father" for the past 4 years? <P>3) Did he know he wasn't the bio dad?<P>4) Who is named on the birth certificate as the Father?<P>Observations: It is cruel to all parties to introduce your H as the father at this late date. Of course the child is adorable, all 4 year olds are. <P>Have you seen a lawyer whose speciality is this type of case? Don't try to handle this on your own. You can't afford to save money dealing with this matter. The ultimate cost may be more than you can pay and that's not just the money.<P>Sorry, so much pain all around.<P><P>------------------<BR>Belle, Domestic Goddess

Weep, Jenny, Daycare Disaster & Bellvue:<P>I does my heart so much good to know that people care about me and my situation. I'm a stranger, but I don't feel like it. I do feel like "family" here. I feel like I've just been hugged by all of you. I'm so sorry we're all here because we've been hurt and betrayed. Thank you all so much for your supportive and compassionate words.<P>Weep: Yes, it does sound familiar. That's exactly how I feel about the OW...like she's a sewer, raw sewage. I know how hurt I am about my husband's short term affair, so I can't even begin to imagine what pain it must be for you knowing he was involved with her for almost 2 years. I'm so sorry. I, too, know I've come to the right place.<P>Jenny: You're right, I am trying very hard to be good to myself...but yes, it is very painful still. I will definately look into Fla law. That was shocking to me to read about divorcing in order to protect the wife's assets. Oh God! What a mess. I need a lawyer! I need some good legal advise. *sigh*...as for the letter, well, you're right, it would be very civil and gracious, but I just ain't feelin' it right now. But like you said, POSSIBLY, when I'm in a calmer mood. I'd like to think I could be that civil and calm when I think of HER. It's just too soon...it still hurts too much. The letter I'd write right now would probably get me arrested for sending indecent material through the US mail! Like you said, I still should write those ...just don't mail them! Thank you for the advise just the same, I may be feeling that way one day and I'll remember who first suggested it. Thank you for caring! Good for you and your 2 year mark! Keep it up! You're strong and resilient...we women are a special breed indeed!<P>Daycare Disaster: Yep..that's exactly what it's been like...two steps forward, 3 steps backwards. I keep thinking of the good times over the past 4 years while I've been healing. It's had it lows, but the highs were far more.You're right, they are still there, but like you said, I just need to climb out from the big boulder that landed on me. I will check into the laws here in florida, and I get the feeling I need to do that soon. I'm sorry that your husband may still be involved with OW/OC. You don't deserve that. I know how painful betrayal is...we all do. I'm so sorry. I hope things turn out the way YOU want them to. Thank you so much for your warm and kind words.<P>It was important to me to address all of you individually. By doing so I've taken up a lot of room...Catnip told me not to apologize for long posts, so I won't. Thanks for allowing me to vent and express my feelings. I need this kind of support and I'm here to offer whatever support to whomever needs it. We can all lean on each other while we get through this. Hugs to you all. God Bless<P>

Bellvue:<P>I'm so sorry, I started crying while I was posting and forgot about you. So sorry!! Yes, I think OW husband's was or may even still be in house..not sure. Don't know if he was the "father" all this time. I'm sure I can find out. Not sure if he knew he wasn't the bio father, we suspect OW didn't even know it until maybe the child started getting older and he/they got suspicious...I don't know for sure why it's taken 4 years. I don't know whose name is on the birth cert, but it isn't/wasn't my husband's. Yes...I agree, it is very cruel to all to bring all this up at this late date. I have said and felt the same thing myself. I feel very helpless in all of this, but I know I must empower and protect myself and my children. I will seek legal advise..and right away. Yeah, she's adorable...but when I looked at those pictures, I saw cute, but the pain overshadowed it. Thank you so much for your warm reply and for caring! I feel very lucky to have found this place. <P>God bless

comfort41, so sorry you are here with us, but glad you found us. i can't imagine how i got along without everyone here. i am so thankful i was told about this site by someone on another site.<P>it is a terrible situation we are all in here. and at times emotions run high. but we are all here to help eachother, like a family. so welcome. it might help to read all the posts, i did that at first, although we have had many now and it could take awhile.<P>take care. and don't ever apologize for anything here. somedays i come here ranting and others i am calm. it is life here.<P>happy_girl<BR>

I feel for you. I am going through the same thing, except the baby hasn't been born yet. I am glad you are here, this place has helped me so much. I can't believe how many of us are here. It just keeps growing every day. Welcome to our group. Hope this will help you (being here) through the rough times.

Ktgirl & Happygirl,<P>thank you both so much for your warm replys and for the welcome. I'm trying daily to "come back" emotionally to where my husband is. He hasn't left, but I have (emotionally). I'm not too far away, but I need time to absorb all this new information. He knows it and he says he'll wait for as long as it takes for me to "come back". it's hard. I'm still struggling with it all. I change from day to day. I can go for hours and not think about it (thank God for work)..and then on my drive home, BAM! I'll just start crying. It's very exhausting emotionally, as I'm sure you both know...as I'm sure we ALL know. But I am just taking it one day at a time. Glad to meet you both. Sorry that hurt and betrayal have brought us all together.

Comfort41<P>I just wanted to say hi and let you know you are in my prayers.<BR>The highs and lows in these kinds of situations are emotionally draining.<BR>Thank God your H is trying his best to make it all up to you. You at least have that comfort. My H had gone through this "confusing" stage where he didn't know where he wanted to be, with me or the OW & the OC.

CD,<P>Thank you so much for your prayers and your reply. Prayer is what is helping to get me through this...along with my first counseling session today (it went well) and the ladies on this board. I know I'm fortunate that my H is trying very hard to make things between us "right" again. It's going to be a long road, but this time, I am all too familiar with it as I was down that same road 4 years ago when I first discovered it. I'm sorry that your H was confused. That must have been very painful for you. Are you two still together now? If so, how are things going? I know there is life after all of this hell because so many women, including myself, are STILL with their husbands. You will also be in my prayers. <P>Comfort

Comfort41,<P>It sounds very promising that your H is willing to give you as much time as you need. This is not an easy thing to deal with and the up and down feelings go on for quite a while.<P>Although some of us have been in this situation for a while, we are still struggling with those awful feelings of betrayal and hurt. The important thing right now is that you are not alone. We are all with you and we all understand.<P>This is a great board to get feelings out and to sound ideas off fellow sufferers. At the beginning things really look bleak, but with every passing day you will gain insight and perspective on how you would like to handle your particular situation.<P>Hang in there. We are all pulling for you and praying for you. Just take it one day at a time ...<P>- Heavenly

Heavenly,<P>This is probably my last post before I get kicked out because of my post to Positive Outlook under "Explaining paternity to older child..." I didn't respond "favorably" or friendly enough according to some folks, especially someone named "K" so I have a feeling my days (hours?) may be numbered here...but oh well..I spoke my mind anyway. <P>But more importantly, I wanted to thank you for your reponse to me and I didn't want to leave without having the chance to do that. Yes, I am convinced and believe in my heart that my husband is remorseful and for the past 4 years he's proved it. It's been a long road back but we were there...and now this. I've been prayerful and have tried not to let this setback totally erase and blind me to the past four years of healing. Although my time here on this board has been very short, I have found comfort in the fact that I'm not alone...because I felt like I was. I never realized how many others are in this situation. It's a very sad situation to be in, but we were all here together and that helped. Thank you for sharing and thank you for caring. God bless and best wishes.<P>Comfort

Comfort:<P>Don't leave. K is a very respected MB member who has been here a long time. He has acted and earned the position to be a sort of mentor to the rest of us...a sort of conscience. <BR>Most of us have been admonished in some way or another by a fellow member if we have been perceived as rude even if we didn't mean to be. It's really no big deal. <BR>There is no 'etiquette' handbook here yet we are all encouraged to speak our minds while protecting the feelings of each other who come here looking for help.<P>You'll get used to K and not take his comments as a personal affront and come to understand he is trying to keep the forum from falling into the blame and combative exchange.<P>We all have very strong beliefs and points of view, and sometimes someone will take offense to something someone has said, but it doesn't get you kicked off the board...if it did, I would have been gone a year and a half ago! Look how upset I was with DD's situation. I saw red when I read of what her husband was doing to her and said things I shouldn't have said.<P>I find a good rule of thumb is acceptance of anyone who shows up here, regardless of what side of the fence we are on. And unless someone is deliberately spiteful and a troublemaker (we have had those...had a run in myself with a lu-lu a couple months ago) we just try very hard to be as non-judgmental as possible. And man, that can be a tough one. <P>There was a another young woman on GQ for a few weeks a couple months ago that made me nuts. It was all I could do to not reach through the computer and choke the snot out of her. She made me crazy...constantly complaining she didn't get enough attention from the other members and whined how she didn't get enough replies to her threads (she wanted her threads to have the little 'flaming files' to show she had more than 20 posts) Finally, I just avoided her posts altogether, and she blissfully just went away.<P>Comfort, you need to be here and you need us and we all certainly need you...please do not leave...and no one is going to kick you off the forum for speaking your mind. As long as we all accept each other and try to help each other, we can say whatever we please as long as everyone's best interests is at heart.<P>Catnip =^^=

Comfort:<P>I "warned" you because I felt your post was rude and insensitive to Positive Outlook. And as catnip has said, this site is one of the few where flame wars and combative exchanges are not part of the daily routine. This site is a great source of information, support, and help in letting you realize that YOU ARE NOT ALONE.<P>You're not going to get kicked off or banned. Hell---I've lost my cool much worse than that, and they still let me play in the sandbox. If I came across too snotty, I apologize. It's good to speak your mind---and it's great that people come here and can get that kind of "honest" input. Sympathy and support can make you feel good, but honest analysis of situations and suggestions on what to do next can actually help (even if you don't agree with them).<P>So please pull up your chair and stay.

Dear Comfort,<P>Thanks for the reply. I want to join Catnip and K in asking you not to leave. Each one of us has so much to deal with already -- there is no need for any of us to make it harder on another than it has to be.<P>I hope that since Catnip and K have explained their points of view, you will accept that and go forward. We are here to help each other not to inflict more pain on each other.<P>- Heavenly

...<p>[This message has been edited by Beerman2 (edited September 13, 2000).]