I'm new to this particular part of this forum. I have posted on the General Questions board, although not lately for things are not well with me and have pretty much lost all energy to work on this. To make a long story as short as can be, and I do tend to be long winded, here goes.<BR>About 3 months ago, I found out my H of 6+ years had an affair about a year ago, claiming it to be only a physical thing(not doing well accepting that). I found out by receiving a court order in the mail asking for paternity and child support. I had no idea or clue. We had our issues, but this hit me out of left field. At that time I was 5 1/2 months pregnant with our third child.<BR>I am now 6 weeks from delivery, there is a possible problem found on the last two sonograms, which the doctors cannot figure out, and we just have to wait for delivery.<BR>We have started to pay a monthly fee for the OC and just got the paternity results in as being positive. My H has only contact with her in regards to the OC.My H pretty much knew it was his but i insisted he do the paternity test to make sure.<BR>My problems are many in understanding all about the affair, but with regards to the pregnancy I have many issues. Here they are,<BR>1)He was stupid enough to have an affair, have unprotected sex and get her pregnant. That hurts.<BR>2)I found out about the affair via mail regarding the OC. Blindsided!<BR>3)She had his first boy, I was supposed to do that. We have two girls, and I found out we are having a boy.<BR>4)She named him one of the names I had picked out when I was pregnant the first time.<BR>5)I have no desire to set up the room for my baby, to pick out names for the baby, and to prepare in anyway, and my H can't understand why. He says it scares him that I feel this way about my own child. He says he understands my hurt, but not my inability to be excited about this. It "confuses" him. And you know what? It scares and confuses me alot too. What is wrong with me?<BR>6)And, if I may vent alittle, If I have to hear from his family another comment about the "first grandson"(that they know of on their side)I am absolutly going to lose it! Although that will be changing, at least with his parents becuz we will be telling them soon, now that we have the results.<BR>So far thats all I can think of. My computer has a habit of bumping me off becuz I type too slow. Any advice as to how I feel, (is it normal?) and what I can do to try to prepare for what should have been the happiest time of my life would help. <BR>I realize that I am dealing with alot, My H and I are having a really tough time communicating right now, I'm on the couch crying, my house is a mess and disgusting(VERY uncharacteristic of me), and every day I feel as if I just have to deal with more and more, nothing is moving anywhere, and I have no motivation for asking for help. I am in therapy,by myself and with H, and do have a few friends and family to talk to. I'm just stuck.<BR>I'm scared, of my fellings toward the birth and my baby, and what the birth will bring. I was hoping it would help us, but since things seem to be less communicative with me and H(which is probally my withdrawing), I can't see that. I was so excited about this baby. I'ts a boy. I'ts my last pregnancy(a decision made pre-affair), and I am experiencing such conflicting and unfamiliar feelings.

Dear Not giving Up:<BR>I was also pregnant when this happen to me, MY FIRDT CHILD!, and let me tell you that your feeling are very normal. This is too new for you and you are also pregnant! Be patient with your H , it seems that he is trying to work things out and he is being very supportive. Continue your therapie together. Is the OC going to be part of your life? If the OC is not going to be part of your life then you don't have tell anybody , not his parents not yours. With respect on the OC you should try not to think about it and focuse on your child that is going to be born. Your child was made out of love and he needs you.<BR>You should try to just put it behind you, let him be responsible for the payments and if the OW and the OC are not intruding in your life you are lucky lucky lucky!. Obviously your H made a mistake but he is trying to fix it. <BR>Hang in there<BR>fambis<BR>

NGU:<P>What an awful mess. I can understand your depression completely. Your situation is so sad; I am so sorry.<P>I can't imagine what it would be like to be pregnant and find out news like this. I hope and pray your new baby boy will be well and healthy. The stress this is putting on you is so unhealthy right now. You must do everything and anything you can to keep yourself as well and calm as possible. I am so sorry.<P>NGU, I don't have any advice right now except that if your husband is truly remorseful and wants to restore the marriage and the family, it's up to him to move heaven and earth to prove this to you and make things as stress free as possible. His actions have caused this horrible predicament and he must do whatever he can to care for you.<P>What an awful shock to find these things out like you did. I am totally amazed he is so perplexed that you are so despondent...what does he expect? What bothers me the most is that he doesn't seem to realize the horrible impact this has had on you at the most precarious time in your life.<P>What does he say to the counselor and what does the counselor tell him? Does the family know about this OC? Do they see it? Does he see it? You've only known about the existance of the OC for two months? How old are your other children? Is he in contact with the OW? Did he see her throughout the pregnancy and birth or is he keeping his distance?<P>Everything you are going through is normal and typical of a betrayed spouse who has been hit with the most awful news imaginable...there is nothing worse than this. It's normal to neglect your house, spouse and self, to do or say things you would ordinarily not do or say, and to sit and cry all day and night...this is the way it is for many of us when the shocking news first hits. It's a shock to the system as well...you're confused and in pain. You're 'shell-shocked'. <P>It's normal to feel indifference to most everything, and an effort to get through the day and accomplish anything. Don't concern yourself with it because you need to just 'be' for a while; you need to comprehend what has happened to you, your marraige, your family and your life. <P>You will begin to care again, and little by little you will begin to feel motivated again...but your husband is the key player in your recovery and it is his responsibility to get you through this.<P>Keep coming here and let us try to help you through some of this and know we are here for you. Take care of yourself and that baby.<P>Catnip =^^=

Not Giving Up:<P>I'll try to address your issues point by point:<P>1. The affair always brings out "insane" behavior from the wayward spouse. And it always hurts. Unfortunately, the "passion" that exists in affairs often makes birth control an afterthought (or no thought). <P>2. Who isn't blindsided by an affair? But dealing with the OC is a double helping. This is probably a big cause for all the other issues you're having: you appear to still be in a state of shock.<P>3/4: Best advice I can give you is to "ignore" the OW as much as possible now. These issues aren't really important, they just add to the pain.<P>5. I think the shock of all this is affecting you. You'll be a terrific mom (again) when you have this baby. Biology takes care of that nearly all the time.<P>6. Your inlaws are commenting about your "soon-to-be" boy, right? They're just trying to make you feel happy and loved---they have no idea how (or why) their words hurt. Hopefully they'll be a source of love and support when (if) you tell them the truth.<P>You say that you're in therapy with your husband. Is it helping? Is it using these MB principles to recover from the affair and rebuild your marriage? If it's not helping---you need to find a new counselor.<P>Catnip's suggestion that your husband should shoulder the responsibility for this is great---except that you're not fully in recovery. He may (or may not) be in withdrawal from his affair (and a spouse in withdrawal isn't much help). That doesn't mean that your marriage can't be saved---it just means it's going to be tougher right now. I strongly urge you to find counseling that supports your desire to restore your marriage, using these guidelines and a planning process that will help you both step through the recovery stages. If you can't find someone locally, the MarriageBuilder's phone counseling is terrific.<P>

Thank you all for your replys. I want to respond to questions that were asked and then I do have to get moving and meet my daughters bus. Some parts of life just don't stop.<BR>Fambis:He has had no contact with the child yet. And she is out of the picture as far as the affair. They have had very little contact except to discuss the child support. I do feel differently though, about telling at least his parents, and I think he agrees that they should know also. And I understand that this will be hard for him, and I want to support him and help him thru that.<BR>Catnip:He is alot more open in the counseling that I thought he would be, although he is doing it because it will help me and that I believe in therapy(I have had it in the past), and he wants to do things to help me get thru this.There is no contact with OW except for issues with the OC. My children are 5 and 3. He didn't see her except for a meeting or two since Sept. of 99. (They work in the same company but different states.)And wasn't involved in the pregnancy or birth. Thank you for letting me know that my actions and lack of motivation are normal. To hear someone say that it is okay to be in shock and it be as long as it has been is comforting.<BR>K:I really don't need to ignore the OW physically, yet she lives inside my mind, which I'm having a hard time getting her out of my mind, but that is a separate issue. And I hope that you are right and that biology will take care of my lack of excitement in having a baby right now. I have been hoping that when the baby is put in my arms, all these feelings of fear and unmotivation will minimize abit. And I do understand that my inlaws have no idea what the comments mean to me. They are very caring and supportive people. One thing you have touched upon, actually two. First, I'm a little unsure that the therapy is working or not. I have two more schedualed, and then may need to look into going somewhere else. Also, I feel that you are right, that I am still in shock and am not totally in recovery. I'm just surprised that it takes this long. As far as MB principles, I feel that they really can't help me right now because I feel so withdrawn and separate from my H right now. All we seem to do is talk, which escalates into arguments, and communication is just not very functionable right now.<BR>Thanks all for the support and I look forward to more. I have a therapy this afternoon. Hopefully it will be productive. I'll check in later tonite.

Not giving up:<P>A comment about MB therapy. You said<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>As far as MB principles, I feel that they really can't help me right now because I feel so withdrawn and separate from my H right now.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>This is exactly the time that you need these principles. If they only worked when you were madly in love with your spouse---they wouldn't be of very much use.<P>These can help bring you out of your withdrawn state. If you did counseling with the Harley's, you'd end up doing homework. It would probably feel very mechanical at first: you'd work on eliminating lovebusters, and spending quality time together. The issue with this therapy is that if you can muster up a willingness to go through the motions, the feelings (emotions) of love will come back.<P>If you do nothing but let your current emotions rule your effort (and your husband does the same), you won't build any love at all. In fact, you'll probably get worse and divorce. That's why it's critical that you start working with someone who can help the two of you learn these skills to have a loving and supportive marriage.<P>You can do this! If there's one thing Steve (and Jennifer) are terrific at, it's motivating and coaching people through this process. In some ways your in much better shape than my wife and I were; and we've had a pretty successful recovery. Please consider it...<P>

K: I stopped in to see if there were anymore replys and then it is off to therapy. I think you definately hit the nail on the head in that I am unable to get past all the pain and feelings of hurt, betrayal, and bisbelief that he did this while still saying he loves me, to be able to "muster up" the willingness to go thru the motions. <BR>I have purchased the book Surviving An Affair, and will definately start to research in it again. I seemed to lose all motivation at the time I purchased the book. Steve and Jennifer sound like they really could help. Money is tight right now, but I'm sure my H would agree if I felt we really needed their help. Do you think we could use the book first, to see if it is for us? My fear is that with all that is going on , being pregnant, and having the feelings as I do, am i taking on too much? I feel swamped.Its almost as if I have no idea which parts to work on first, and there are so many more that I haven't mentioned!<BR>Thanks for the support and advice, and checking in on me. I'll be checking in later.

Not Giving Up:<P>If your current therapist is familar with Harley and has had success in using his material, you might be able to stick with them (although it doesn't sound likely).<P>I know money will be an issue, but in the big scheme of things 10 sessions will run you $950. You might not even need that many, if you get off to a good start. I'd suggest that you read "Surviving an Affair" and see if it makes sense to you (do it this weekend). Have your husband work with you too. If this makes sense, please call the Harley's to set up a session---they can get you started on the most productive use of your time and energies.<P>Most people I've seen here really like the MB principles, but it takes a while to assimilate it and start working on the "most productive" areas first. I don't think you have a lot of time to try this stuff 'hit or miss', and that's why I recommend counseling. Especially if you're feeling overwhelmed with all this (and that's natural)---you'll help prioritize what's important for YOUR recovery. If it makes you feel better, the money that I've spent on counseling and the marriagebuilder's materials is the best spent money I've had---it's an investment in your marriage, and your future happiness.<P>

I'm so sorry your going through this. I understand how you feel about the OC being "the first grandson". When H ow was pregnant she was telling everyone she was having a girl. She KNEW I wanted a girl. She told everyone, his family, my H her family.... That really really hurt me more then anything because I wanted a girl so bad that I cried when my second son was born. I felt that my H had given this stranger my daughter.... <P>Luckily for me, she ended up having a boy. Talk about celebrating!!! <P>I'm sorry you are going through all this... I think once your son is born you will definitley begin to feel more towards him... Being pregnant and dealing with everything you are dealing with your poor mind and emotions are probably on overload. <P>Take a minute each day to just sit and think of nothing but the coming of your new child. Visualize holding him, feeding him, touching him. Dont think about your H or his oc or his ow or anything but yourself and your new baby. Talk to your son, sing to him.... explain to him how you are feeling. I know that sounds crazy but I used to spend lots of time talking to my belly when I was pregnant. It very well may help YOU feel better, and it may help you establish those bonding feelings that you think you are missing. <P>Personally I dont think you are missing them. I just think you havent had time to realize they are there with everything else going on.<P>Good luck and I hope things turn out for the best. Please keep us updated and let us know how you are doing!!

Dear not giving up:<BR>I know what you mean that money is tight believe me! But maybe reading the book His needs , her needs might help. At the end of the book there is a short chapter on surviving an affair. It really helped me a lot! I found myself talking to my H on important issues that we never talked before. He also read the book , that really helps too. I know you feel distant, but you need to make and effort, and you have to try to force yourself not to argue with your H. You need him right now more than ever. Believe it or not this discussion group is the one who has helped me the most. I do not feel alone in this mess, I realized that it just not only happens to me, and that everybody here can deal with this issue one way or another. I also started to feel better when I was able to tell somebody about this issue and I felt like they understood me. When you tell other people about this mess they usually do not understand, but all of us here do. You do not feel judged and everybody here is here to help and listen to you. You are going to start feeling so much better in a week. Whenever you feel depressed write in this post, we will be here. <BR>This is an awful thing and nobody expects you not to be affected. Why don't you start reading Dr. Harley Web site. He has the basic information. Read it, print it out and maybe your husband will read it to.<BR>fambis.<BR>

Notgivingup,<BR>I'm so sorry you've had to join us, but hang in there! We're here to help/support. Three months is NOT a very long time to assimilate this.<P>I was 8mo pregnant when my H of nearly 12 years confessed that he had been having an affair with a friend of ours, who was also 8mo pregnant with OC. She let everyone think it was her soon-to-be-XH's and continued to pretend to be my "friend" right up to that point, coming to one of my ultrasounds, babysitting and housesitting for us, discussing baby things with me--unbelievable things! "Shock" is an understatement. And the baby/gender issues were there for me, too. <P>I believe it is very important in birth for a woman to be in a good place mentally or it can honestly effect the birth process. I KNOW that is hard for you to do right now, but I really hope you work on this subject emotionally as hard as you can if only so that you can safely deliver your new precious baby. <P>Read, talk, write, walk, tell the in-laws, whatever you need to do to make some progress and get "unstuck"! It still won't be "perfect", but it CAN be better! My H and I used "After the Affair" by Janis Abrams Spring and that was a real Godsend to us. I HIGHLY recommend it. Dr. H's principles ARE helpful and important. Please read the main ones and do his questionaires available at this site with your H: lovebusters and emotional needs; they were SO helpful to us! You can figure out what "type" of affair it was at affairs-help.com There is also good affair info at vaughn-vaughn.com. I'm an information junkie so this stuff really helped me. Do whatever you need that helps YOU most. Take bubble baths and treat yourself in small ways. Know that you are going through the normal but very overwhelming stages of grief: denial, sadness, anger, bargaining, and eventually acceptance. The hormones of pregnancy can only make this more emotional. It has been 2 years for us now and we're doing well. I hope that gives you hope to carry on and work this out. <P>And keep posting <BR>Jenny

Well I went to therapy and it helped a little. I think that really this woman is helping me, but I compare her alot to a therapist I had years ago, and expect alot. She does surprise me alot with the questions she asks. We talked alot about the baby, and my H. She aked me a question that I didn't have an answer to, "What do you feel towards your baby?"or "Do you have any feelings toward the baby?"I'm not sure how she worded it. And I just cried. Because I didn't know the answer, or maybe that I am just afraid to say that I'm not sure. I said, "I don't know, and what kind of a mother does that make me?"I don't understand these feelings, or lack of feelings that I am experiencing. All this is so foreign to me. I feel as if I don't recognize myself anymore. God, my whole life I have wanted children, and wanted to be the right kind of mother, fun, energetic, and loving. Now I sit in a disgusting house, crying, on the computer, or on the phone trying to work this thing that I didn't ask for and didn't deserve. We have counseling toghether on Monday. Hopefully we can start to work some issues out. <BR>I do appreciate all your responses and support, and I am listening and digesting all you say. It is inspiring to hear of success stories. I just hope one day I can be there too. I just find it so difficult to see me there with all this pain still poking at me, constantly reminding me of what has happened. <BR>We are telling his parents on Sunday night about all of this. I think that this will help myself, and my H. I know he doesn't think so, but I feel that he needs someone to talk to besides me.<BR>Again, thanks for the support, and I will keep posting.

NGU,<BR> I really feel for you. Not only have you been slapped in the face with your H's affair, you didn't have time adjust to even the possibility of a child, let alone DNA determination that it was your H's. You have been thrown into a crash course in the worst pain a person could ever experience in this world, with NO preparation, and at a very emotional time in your life, preparing for the birth of your son. <BR> That you are not excited by the birth of your child does not surprise me. If I were you, I'd be thinking, what's the point? She had his son first. I am just carrying an also-ran. But the real point is, you gave him a son that will bear his family name. You gave him a son within the confines of marriage. You did things right. He is the one who did wrong, and how dare he criticize you for not reacting as he feels you should, because it was his mistake that put you where you are now. You have so much to deal with during pregnancy alone, the possibility of something not being right with the baby, etc., and finding out not only about an affair, but an OC resultant from it as well, is not helping you to feel overjoyed. He must understand that you are going through normal feelings resultant from an affair discovery, in addition to normal pregnancy worries. You are just overloaded right now emotionally, probably very depressed, and in shock as well. It will take time, but you will get through it. He must understand this. You are doing the best that you can for all he has handed you. It will take you a while to find your way back. I wish I could give you such a hug!!! Stay strong, and keep coming here. Read and print out everything you can find here that will help you. This site is just full of wonderful information, and it really does help!!! My H and I are doing so much better, thanks to Dr. Harley's principles, and the questionaires about EN's and Love Busters. We have a much better insight into each other these days, and I truly bless the day that I found this place. The whole place is full of wonderful people, and they are so supportive. That is one important thing that you need at this time. Keep your head up, things will get better with time.

Just a slight revelation over the past few days, especially after my therapy and this tread, I have come to the conclusion that I am still in shock. I guess I'm surprised because it has almost been three months since d-day.I know there isn't a time frame on all this, but it seems like I'm getting nowhere.<P>I wish I could believe that we could be at the point of recovery. I too think that the MB principles are good and make so much sense. I only sorry that I didn't know about them sooner, then I wouldn't have been in this mess. I would have realized what my H needed, and maybe not have been so blind to it.I just feel so bitter toward him, and that if I start to apply the principles, he is in a way getting what he wanted before the affair by having the affair,if that makes any sense.I guess what I'm trying to say is that since sex and my lack of showing my love and desire for him put him in the situation for not being able to be strong enough to say no(he does accept full responsibility for actually doing it)I feel the "Love Deposits" in a way will allow the affair to have given the end result my H wanted.(This still isn't coming out right, but I think I got the basic point across.) Anyway, thats what makes doing MB principles so difficult for me.<P>KTGirl: BTW, when I got the envelope in the mail, which is how I found out about the affair, At first I thought it was a disgruntled employee, angry at my H and setting him up. Then I read all the questions pertaining to when the date of conception, was he at birth ect. I still had my doubts as to the legitimacy of the paperwork. Anyone could make such accusations. Then I saw a picture of him with a girl,(found out not to be her) and then the birth certificate, with H's last name on it. So yes, she even took that part too.<P>I am very nervous about tomorrow night and telling his parents. This is very important to me in that my moodiness is being explained away as just hormones due to pregnancy, and I find it difficult to bear the responsibility for that when he is the one who has caused this change in my behavior.I also find it difficult to hide my feelings and to be happy around people who don't know. I also feel that they have a right to know about the baby, it is their grandson. My H is insisting we bring our other 2 children, basically for the simple fact that I have been pretty much a recluse for the past 6 weeks. I admitted to him tonite that I feel that it is inappropriate for them to be there, especially if I have someone who is willing to watch them. I also admitted that he may want them there so that they may be interrupting us and give my H an "out" to a very difficult situation. He said that it is only to let them see his parents, but I still feel strongly that they need not be there. They see/hear enough of this stuff from us, or when we had talked to my sister in the past, but at that time we had less of a choice of babysitters. Anyway, on I babble...I will post after we have the talk.

NGU: Ha! You can't sleep either!<P>Honey, it's been nearly two years for me and I'm still in shock...not like I was the first six months, but the shock kind of has a residual effect. It does go away and fade in time, but those first six months for me were incredibly hard...<P>Also, I know what you mean, I think. <BR>You are saying that you did not meet your husbands needs which may have been the catalyst for him having an affair.<P>Therefore, you are surmising that he is finally getting his needs met from you because he had this affair and it was a very rude wake up call for you and you resent that he went to such lengths to get your attention instead of coming to you with his needs??? Something like that?<P>So now, you resent giving him what he wants because he showed you in the worst possible way what he felt he was being deprived of?<P>Try not to look at it like that if this is what you think. When the shock fades, so will some of the rage. There are many stages to this horror. We start with denial, then anger-rage, then sadness and finally acceptance. Somewhere around sadness, you may realize that you will GET back ten fold of what you GIVE to your husband. <P>Someday, you may even accept this as an 'overkill' life's lesson. <BR>Your husband's inability to deal with life's little inconveniences of every day life and his inability to tell you what his needs are, are his problem...that, unfortunately, effected you. It is also his responsibility to find a more constructive way of making his needs known.<P>NGU, we are all so inept at times in letting each other know what we need from each other. We get complacent and take each other for granted or blow off the warning signs. We don't understand betrayal under any circumstance and we are puzzled that we have been living with someone who we thought were incapable of doing these horrible things when we pledge ourselves, our love and fidelity to each other forever...then they do this! It's a crushing blow for sure, but don't deny your husband's needs to punish him for what he did. <BR>It could be a weird cry for help...kind of like a suicide attempt.<P>I completely agree with you that your children should NOT accompany you and your husband to his parents house tomorrow night. Your children should not be used or subjected to possible emotional fallout from this meeting. <BR>For your husband to say that the parents will want to see the kids is total BS...he is trying to use them as a 'buffer', probably thinking that is they are there, there will be no emotional drama to have to face. <BR>That's the chicken's way out. <BR>Discussing this very sensitive subject will subject your children to knowing something is terribly wrong and make them uncomfortable and could do horrible damage to them if things get upsetting. He must put his own feelings of fear aside and take this like a man.<P>Don't underestimate children...they hear things and feel things and sense things we don't even realize.<P>Good luck<P>Catnip =^^=<p>[This message has been edited by catnip (edited September 10, 2000).]