Jenny,<P>Not bitter or strong….this is how you feel and I appreciate your input. It's one more point of view, which is what I asked for. I know I won't take everyone's advice, but I will take from here and there and make my own way, with your experiences to guide me. In order to make an informed decision, I need to be open to many different views. I know that "being friends" with his wife is damn near impossible…I was just hoping we could stride for rationale and civil behavior. I know I have to be patient and understanding. She's going through a lot. But I get so frustrated. I don't know what she wants and I don't know what he wants. They have succeeded in thoroughly confusing me. So, I go with my gut instinct and pray I'm doing what's right.<P>As for the sweet-hearted, child-loving single man….maybe someday. For now I think I'll fly solo. It was a good thought, though. Thanks!<BR>

A couple more thoughts. I am guessing that your MM and W sound confused and contradictory because they FEEL confused and contradictory!! No one gets hit with this and immediately has a clear rational head about what to do!! Of course they have mixed feelings! I read recovery books and had counseling appointments starting the first week I found out (btw, XOW and I were BOTH 8mo pregnant at the time), and it STILL took over a year to come to any understanding with the XOW, muchless feel better about my marriage. It takes about 2 years for a marriage to recover, assuming both parties are working on it and getting help! Imagine what a mess it is when people struggle alone. It is insanity. <P>The man is torn in two: his obligation to his wife and his obligation to the child, (apparently his only living child?). For his marriage to survive, it MUST come first. The wife, unless she is dealing with known infidelity (maybe a serial adulterer), has had her ENTIRE WORLD, all she thought she knew, SHATTER. Her baby DIED, she cannot have more children, and her husband betrayed her...!!! Can you FEEL that point of view for even 60 seconds??? I've been living it daily. Your child is the one she, by all normal standards, should have but can't; can never have, never hold as her own, never raise according to her values, yet is the everlasting tie between you and her adulterous husband. The grief is beyond your young imagination; I hope you never live it. <P>We send gifts and a weekly card to the OC and are willing to have visitation when the child's older, but my H's feelings about the child are tainted by his own feelings of guilt(for the affair, hurting his family, hurting a child he is in no position to raise) and shame and anger and remorse... I think it is worse for those of us with tender hearts who do indeed love children, as we can't just tell everyone to get lost. Do you see what I mean by the freedom to love the child without all this horrible garbage attached???? What do you hope to gain here? Who is punishing the child if you demand that the child be with people (ie the father and his wife) who never wanted him and who have mixed feelings about him/his circumstances? No child should be unwanted or unloved, but we are only human. I was willing to accept full custody of the OC and love/raise her as my own, but I hate the idea of "co-parenting".<P>This whole idea has me in an emotional uproar. As my H is also military and I've also lost babies, your situation reminds me too much of mine! At least my H didn't lie to the XOW--what an ***.<P>If I were his W and if I were trying to keep my marriage, I'd want to hear a gently worded letter from you explaining that despite your anger at being disgustingly deceived by the MM, you apologize for any part you've had in their(or her) pain and you release the MM from emotional obligation to the child, as you will find a loving father substitute.<P>I'm going to go put on some peaceful music. UGH.<P>Good luck.<p>[This message has been edited by Jenny (edited October 10, 2000).]

Ohbratti1:<P>I've read all your posts twice. I wanted to be sure I understood all you were saying. I wanted to try to find something in your posts that would make me say "oh, what a shame for her"...but I can't. Yes. MM is a lying dog for deceiving you. But you state that you don't know why it's necessary to for OW and MM to not have any contact thereby minimizing contact with OC. Well, as the wife of a cheating H who also fathered another child with a married woman, I'll tell why. It's too painful. It's a constant reminder of how heart sickening betrayal is. Your topic is "How right is it?" For most of us on here, it's not only right, but it's the only way that our marriages are going to survive. Yes. the children are innocent and didn't ask to be here. But unfortunately, many times the sins of the parents are passed down to the innocent. You mention in one of your posts about not being certain about taking the W at her word...she seems confused. Yes, I would imagine she is to say the least. I guess I really want to know what you expect? If the MM lied to you in the beginning, what makes you think he's going to want to "do the right thing"? what makes you think his W will, either? I'm sure her "right thing" IS exactly what she's doing. Whatever works for her. There are a few ladies on here who have generously taken the OC into their lives. God bless them. I know I couldn't. OK, so you'll get the cs, but are you really expeceting more? I hope you don't hold your breath, but I have a feeling you already know that. IF he and W get divorced, that doesn't mean he's going to be with you. You have said that you love him, but you haven't said how he feels about you. I hope you and your child will be well. My H also told ow that "we're having problems"...who isn't? But we're still together and this was almost 5 years ago. "Shaky ground" doesn't mean divorce, it just means "shaky"...and the shaking does stop eventually. I read your posts twice as I said and even signed off my computer twice, but I came back because I had to say what I feel. My feelings about this belies my name (Comfort), because I can't give you that. I don't feel it. You're probably a very nice lady who was just lied to by this jerk. However, my sympathy truely lies with the W. I hope you have a healthy baby and a safe delivery, but my heart goes out to W. And I agree with whoever said MM should pay something...he laid so he should pay. Good luck to you.<P>Comfort

Ohbratti1,<P>I have already made my contribution but after reading some of your replies, something has been bothering me and I wanted to throw it out for thought.<P>You said that you are prepared to raise your child alone but that you must protect yourself by getting custody so that the MM cannot come back later to claim your child - even though you realize that this will mean automatic CS from a man who has already declared that he does not want the child.<P>I am a lawyer and I can assure you that there is no court in this land that would consider a custody challenge later in your child's life unless you were an unfit mother -- which I doubt very much. Such a challenge would be particularly unwinnable if in fact you had sole responsibility for the child and the MM had not been contributing to the financial well-being of the child.<P>Once the MM is dragged into the situation through CS, you are actually increasing his role and placing him in a more powerful position than if you simply walked away.<P>You have very courageously admitted your feelings for the MM. Despite your assurances to the contrary, if you examined your conscience I believe you might find that you are using the child to get back at the MM for the shabby way that he treated you.<P>The ex-OW in my life is still very much in love with my H and she has used the OC as a way to keep him attached - regardless of how distant -- to her. It is a way of continuing to be intrusive into our marriage and our relationship. And she has tried to cash in on the sympathy angle big time! You know, single mother struggling on her own...<P>Perhaps you have more feelings along that line than you realize. Such feelings would be completely understandable -- you have also been betrayed just like the rest of us. But, I am sure that if you searched your memory you would find instances where you felt doubt about the MM's status -- when his whereabouts were unaccounted for or when stories that he told you did not add up. Sometimes we deliberately block out the things we don't want to see.<P>For many of us, we felt something was not right with our H's but we were also in denial until the whole story came out.<P>The feeling of betrayal is such a strong emotion, I am sure that you are suffering more than you realize. And for most normal people, feelings of some type of revenge are not usually far behing.<P>- Heavenly<P>

Ohbratti, I admire your bravery in coming here and opening yourself to possibly scathing replies by those of us here whose H's have cheated on their marriages, and their wives and their children of the marriage. My own personal feeling having had this be a part of my life for 8 years now is that a child of adultery should be given up for adoption. There are many people who desperately want children and cannot have them for whatever reason. Giving a child a home with two parents who love him/her and want him/her are the best gifts a mother can give her child. Women who keep their children under these circumstances are, in my opinion (for what it is worth), are extremely selfish. You are not looking out for your child, you are looking out for yourself and your feelings. <BR> When the child's bio father want's noting to do with him, how do protect him from that rejection? No child should be rejected by his parents, yet that is what happens here. My H has never seen his OC. She lives with her mother in NC and we live in TX. We just address that again this weekend because our child support was screwed up this month and they took out double what they were supposed to take. That creates frustration because I have to deprive my children things because of the OC situation. Granted it is not her fault, but it is her mother's, if she had not kept her child, we would not be going through this. <BR> The OW in our case did not "know" he was married, yet when he could not give her a home phone because he always was on the road, this did not raise questions in her mind? She knew he was married when she got PG. In fact she through herself at him even more and got PG then. Apparently an attempt to force him to leave me for her. When I asked him if he wanted to marry her, he begged me to let him stay. She was the last thing he wanted at that time. Even now I have several times asked if he has ever regretted staying together, he says his only regret is getting involved with her in the first place. WE have been putting our marriage back together for 8 years; we have a son only 4 mos older than his half-sister. He knows noting of her, her mother knows of my children. I do not know if she has told her dau. about her siblings. This not a happy situation for any child. Do you really think that you want your child to feel these rejections, just because you "know you can be a good parent" and have a right to keep your child. What rights do you think your child has? What rights does the wife have in this situation?<BR> I reiterate, in this case, the Other Woman and the Cheating Spouse are the MOST selfish people in the world. They care about nothing and no one but themselves or their wants. I will probably raise your ire here, but I feel that you should hear it from those who are on the other side. Despite what you say about not knowing he was married, there had to have been signs that something was not quite right. I know in ours if she had done more she could have found out about me before he told her. I could go on and vent all my frustrations and anger on you, but I will stop here. I do not believe what I have said will do more than incite you, but I have spoken my piece for now. Good luck to you and make the right choice for your child not yourself. I am TEXASGIRL

I am another one who gave up my child for adoption. I gave birth at age 15 and the baby was fathered by a married man, a distant family relative but close family friend (some friend) who had been having a sexual relationship with me for two years. I never told who the father was. I have gotten therapy and am as recovered as a person can be, I guess from something like this. This man is now in a wheelchair and can't harm anyone else like he did me. But let me say this. If I had been older I would never, ever in 100 years have given my baby up. I still miss my child every day. I hope and pray that like catnip, my child finds me but then I have to settle for being a close friend or an aunt, never a mother. I am now a single mother to my other children and a good one too. Many successful and happy people come from single parent homes. Brati should not have to give her baby which, who knows, might be her only baby ever to protect the wife of the cheating lying MM. It's not her job to protect the wife! The MM should have protected his wife and he didn't! This is his fault totally and Brati shouldn't pay for it by giving away her precious baby! Saying that giving the baby away is best for the baby may not be true. Who knows where the baby would end up. No one can be sure and it sounds to me like Bratti would be a wonderful mother. Remember that adopted little girl in NYC whose father beat her to death? To ask a woman to give her baby away at age 30 which is alot older then anyone here who did, I think, just to save the marriage of someone who she didn't even know existed is just not fair. The betrayed wife will have to come to terms with what her husband did to her because he is the problem here. But Bratti, I think you have to accept the fact that this lying skunk is no prize and probably unworthy of even being around your baby let alone being a father to it. He said he doesn't want to and that's probably doing you a favor even though it doesn't feel that way now. So get on with your life with your baby and leave him to his wife. Raise your baby on your own. No it's not fair that he's such a lying creep but life isn't fair. You are about to be blessed with a beautiful baby which you should and will cherish with all your heart and soul. What a gift this is! Forget this man. Forget his money. Forget him altogether. And my opinion is you go right ahead and keep your baby if that is what your heart is telling you to do. Your baby won't be any less precious just because it was fathered by adultery. It will be pure and new and loved by you.<P>Del

ohbratti1 (is that right?)<P>Can I just say do not hold your breath for MM or W to "come around" and see you point of view. I am one of those saps who was going to let oc in our lives. OW couldnt handle the thought of me being in her childs life, so she moved with no forwarding address. I guess I should consider myself lucky, but I feel horrible for this child. Not only does she not have a father, but her mother is completely psychotic. This has created a lot of pain bc I love kids, but it took a lot for me to be willing to open my heart to this constant reminder. The pain was not worth going through. My H is totally selfish and I do not think he ever even thinks of oc. Like I said OW is a nutcase. If him and I got divorced...I do not think he would think of oc anyway. I never tried to keep him away...at that point I was still caught up with the idea of the poor innocent child. I believe that...OW just played on the idea. When she didnt get her way (my H) she decided to try to hurt him the opposite way and told him as long as he was with me he would never see his child. Of course we are still together, but she disappeared.<P>I am not sure what my point was in telling you all that...lol...I guess I just wanted you to know where I am coming from.<P>I have a daughter, and I can not imagine the betrayal the W in your situation must feel. To not be able to have children and then to find out your H had an affair and a child with another person. Oh, how sickining! My heart goes out to her and all the others in her situation.<P>If you refuse to give up your child to adoption I suggest you forget about MM and live your own life with your baby. I believe you said something earlier about keeping a door open...well, if I were you...I would keep the door closed. Just keep it unlocked. I wouldnt count on MM and W or even MM by himself to try to be in your childs life. Pretend they wont be and live your life by that. If you leave the door unlocked and want to open it to them (him) when they (he) come knocking then more power.<P>I hope this makes sense... I have a tendency to have a point when I start typing and by the end of my post I forget what my point was supposed to be...lol. It is that whole W confusion thing I guess.<P>Good Luck and God Bless...

<BR>heavenlybody26 advises:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Once the MM is dragged into the situation through CS, you are actually increasing his role and placing him in a more powerful position than if you simply walked away.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>California is a joint custody state. While the mother will undoubtedly get primary physical custody, she could very well have her ability to relocate severely restricted by forcing a paternity decision. This is especially true if the father assumes an active role in the child's life. <P>So, the OW is probably thinking, "Hey, that's what I want! I want him to be active in the child's life!"<P>Think of this possibility instead for a sec:<P>Its fairly common for single men to marry a woman and later adopt her child by another man. I personally know a man who got nailed to the income shares cross. He flatly refuses to let his ex-wife's husband adopt the child even though he only sees the child infrequently himself, but plenty often enough to assure that he'd win a custody battle against his ex-wife's husband. Now this woman has since had a child with her new husband, and she is *very* afraid that if she suddenly died, her ex would exercise his custody rights and tear apart her sons. And you know what? He can and *would* do it.<P>So lets ask the question: Should your desire for the excessive, guideline CS amount trump the possibility of having the MM tear the child away from the arms of a half-sibling? Why not instead negotiate a genuinely fair CS amount with the MM and his wife, and keep this out of the courts in the first place?<P>Bystander<BR>--<BR>Who still cannot believe that a banner ad for "ePregnancy.com" is active in this forum!

Thanks, Del!! You've stated exactly what I'm feeling in regard to adoption. It comes down to a matter of belief/conviction. I know from personal experience that two parent households are not always the best….and adoption can sometimes lead a child right into an unhappy, "bad" childhood. In many cases, the bio mom is truly thinking of what is best for her child. But, in my case, it's looking very much like adoption is what would be in the best interest of the W and H, without any consideration for me. I don't think that it's a question of who can provide a better life for my child, but more a question of what will facilitate this sordid mess for the W and H. Yes, their marriage is their priority….but should it also be mine? I've done what I can to atone for my part in it, but I don't believe that I should have to rip my own heart out as penance for his infidelity. I've apologized to his W repeatedly and have submitted myself to all her questions, no matter how private, because I felt I owed it to her. Do I owe her giving up my child, too? Then will it be enough? How much do I have to give up and how much do I have to hurt before I've "paid my due"? I'm not angry with the responses I've gotten because they help me to see his wife's perspective and that helps me in my attempt to be patient and understanding of everything she's going through. For that, I thank all of you. I am, however, exasperated over the adoption issue. Just like adoptive parents believe they can provide a good home for a child, so do I believe the same. Everything starts with intention, but there is no guarantee on the outcome. Adoptive parents deal with the issue of telling the child they are adopted and never being able to address why the child was given up to begin with. I have to contend with telling my child about my relationship with his father, but at least I'll be there to tell him how much I wanted and loved him, despite the circumstances under which he was conceived. There is no perfect answer. Individually, we make decisions based on our personal circumstances and what we have the strength to handle.<P>As for the question posed by the attorney in the group, I too work in the legal arena and have consulted an attorney, who practices family law, in regard to settling custody. She adamantly advised me to obtain custody early on before it became a greater issue. Yes, his wife has stated that they want nothing to do with my child and then she flip flops and starts talking about visitation and having the baby come to their state. It's a very unstable situation that I would like to have settled for peace of mind. Child support is an add on that I care nothing for. If it has to be addressed (and it does in California), let them do what they want and I'll agree. It's easy to get a false sense of security by listening to others say "this won't happen" and "that won't happen". I'm very much aware of what can happen. One of my immediate family members works as an interpreter in the family court where I reside. She has given me all the best and worse cases and knows the judges very well. Because California will be the state of jurisdiction, California law applies and my family member and the attorney concur that settling custody should be done as soon as possible. I do want to be fair, for my child's sake, and am leaving the "visitation" door open. Maybe, when things settle down, feelings will change. I'm not holding my breath, but I'm not counting it out either. It's a question of hoping for the best but preparing for the worst.<P>Without wanting to sound cold, I have no obligation to make this better for his W, but I’m doing what I can, without sacrificing anymore of my own happiness…..and sanity. I do, however, have an obligation to take care of myself. Just like his wife is trying to do what is best for herself and her marriage, so am I trying to do what is best for myself. We all need to heal from the deep wounds we have suffered. Please don't exclude me from the right to heal and once again be happy.<P>And no, Texasgirl and Heavenly, there was nothing to indicate he had a wife. I wish there had been. He had no ring, no pictures, his own place, a home phone number I could call at anytime, we spoke to each other at all hours, made plans on a whim, etc. I met his friends, we had BBQ's…nobody ever mentioned his wife. To tell you the truth, I don't even know if his friends here new he was married. In all manners and appearances, he was a single man living alone. Turns out his wife was living in another state and they were unofficially "separated" because she had told him (SHE told me this) she wanted a divorce. He did a really good job in duping me. <P>Yes, I want to keep my baby with all my heart…and maybe that appears selfish to some. But if I have the means and the love to do it, why shouldn't I? I'm a 30 year old professional with a lot to offer. At least with me, I know what my baby's getting. Adoptive parents are not automatically good parents, even though they're "checked out" thoroughly. How is it that I can be approved as a legal guardian (temporary) for my friend's children when she needed help, but I shouldn't keep my own child? When I applied for guardianship, the state did not find me lacking. I went through the background check, the home inspection, the interviews with child protective services, etc. So the powers that be say I make a good parent. They never said "good parent EXCEPT to your own child".<P>So, ladies, I want to thank you for all the input you have provided. You have all given me food for thought and you have helped me to re-affirm some of the decisions I've made. You have also helped me to remain compassionate to the W anguish. I opened this can of worms by posting to his board, and I don't regret it for a moment. This is a disturbing, hurtful topic and I appreciate your honesty and candor.<BR>

o.,<BR>If you want to raise your own child, go right ahead. But I thought you started this thread to ask: why should your child be "punished" by not ALSO having his father in his life. Am I mistaken?? Have you gotten that answer yet?<P>I could ask you: contrarywise, why should the wife be punished by the presence of your child? Hasn't she been through enough? Why should she give up her happiness for your child? I have little doubt that she lies awake many a night crying for the unfairness of her baby dying and yours living. You want your baby and you can offer him a great home, fine! But can't you leave the couple out of it? For everyone's sake. <P>As for the child support, you said the couple can "do anything they want"? HUNH? The law did not give my H a "choice" about ch-support! <P>I was rereading some of your thread and you sound like a bright thoughtful person. It's ugly that you were duped but I hope you and your child move on without them. The artificial similarities between your case and mine has reopened a huge gaping wound for me, and I don't even know you!!

Ohbratti1,<P>Sorry to once again interject a comment from "the lawyer in the group". I believe that you meant to insult me by that little dig, but I only stated the fact because most of the others in this group already know and you are new. I did not mention it to position myself as some sort of authority on this matter, as I have already explained to the group that I do not practice family law.<P>Jenny is right -- once you go to court no one has any more choices. That is why it should always be a last resort to involve the legal system in private matters that might be solved among the parties concerned.<P>You did start out with a completely different story than you have ended up with. You did not want your child to suffer for not having the presence of a father in his life. But, the father obviously does not want to be a part of your family plan. It still sounds to me that either you are hoping that his marriage will fall apart and he will come back to you or you simply want him to pay for the deceit that he perpetrated.<P>Just as many of us have to accept the breach of our marriage and the existence of an OC, you must also accept that you were deceived and the man is not what you expected him to be. The emotions you are experiencing are the same. <P>The only difference between you and betrayed spouses is that the law protects you and allows you to violate our family's lives by extorting money for child support and taking food out of our children's mouths - who, by the way, are also the legal children of the same man born out of a legal relationship. We all pay -- the truly innocent victims -- for the crime committed by the husband and the OW.<P>We are all feeling the same pain, some of us just choose to deal differently with it. <P>- Heavenly<BR>

Well, I for one think this MM DESERVES to pay child support and shouldn't have a choice! Why should a man who deliberately lied to a woman about being married just be able to get off scott free? This was not a case of the OW knowing he was married! So maybe he will just do it again? Why not if nothing happens to him! Why should Bratti just say, hey that's OK! Go ahead and lie about being married, father a child! You shouldn't be punished for it! I say Bratti, keep the baby if you want AND make this low down so-and-so pay child support! Also the wife here does have a choice. She has the choice of whether or not to stay married to this rat. And if she does stay married to him, she knows exactly what she has in him. I know most of you are seeing things only from the viewpoint of the wife, but I really really think it is just too much to ask Bratti to give up her child for the sake of the lying MM's marriage. And also, if Bratti was supposed to somehow know that this man was lying to her and was married, shouldn't his wife have somehow just known that he was a lying rat? His wife does have a choice. Stay with him even though he has done this or leave him. But he should pay. And maybe his wife will be better off if he does because he won't do it again. There should be consequences for what he has done.<P>Del

Heavenly,<P>Exactly what crime did Bratti commit? And why are children born out of a marriage deserving of more then those who are not? And if Bratti goes after this lying skunk for support, why is that extortion? She didn't know he was married. Now I agree that the child should not get more then other children of the same man. That is very wrong and I totally support that the laws should be changed. But this man deserves to have to support this child, wife or no wife. If you don't think he does, why not?<P>Del

Jenny,<P>Please forgive me for causing you pain. I did not intend for that to happen, but what I intended is irrelevant. You're hurting and I'm truly sorry.<P>You're right. I did start off with one topic and it has been carried somewhere else…the issue of adoption. I have tried to "leave it alone" and have never been the one to initiate contact, out of respect for her and her home. Yet, she repeatedly called me at home and at work to ask me questions or to tell me something she wanted me to know. I did not look forward to her calls because they were always hurtful, but I remained respectful and polite. I can't begin to explain how hard I tried to preserve what little dignity we had left. We could banter back and forth about "what about me?" and "what about her?" The bottom line is that we are both trying to do what we can or need to do to recover from this ordeal. Neither one of us should have to sacrifice so much for the other. For her it's a question of regaining her marriage. For me it's a question of keeping my child. Both are equally important. If I could undo what was done, I would. It's a disgraceful and shameful situation. Unfortunately I can't undo it and I'm limited in what I can do to help her. I have answered all her questions and have done what I can without severely jeopardizing myself. I'm not claiming to be "saintly" be any means, but I am trying to do what is right. A lot of my actions are actually reactions to her statements, requests, and threats. As for child support, I did not bring it up, nor did I ask for it. His wife asked me if I would take a paternity test and I agreed because she told me that she needed to know, one way or the other. She informed me of his wish to provide financial support, but she wanted confirmation that the baby was his. An amount was never discussed, at least not with me….and I won't ask. She tells me he is a Christian man that had his fall from grace and that he wants to do what is right by this child and, yet, she alludes to him not wanting anything to do with the child. At one point I got so frustrated with her that I wanted to know why HE has never told me anything. Her response to me was that she has him over a barrel and he will not defy her. He screwed up so badly that he dare not go against anything she wants. She's in control now, whether he likes it or not. He's in the military in a public position and she told me that if he dared contact me, that she would file charges for violation of the Uniform Code of Military Justice, effectively ruining his military career. That's a nasty situation, but I guess he asked for it. I'm staying out of it. However, he knows that I have been cooperative with his wife, and that I will not lie or cover for him. I committed myself to being honest with her and I'm keeping the commitment. <P>Because of all the contradictory conversations I've had with her, I firmly believe that I need to establish legal custody. I have no assurances of what he really wants and she has been very volatile. I can't separate custody from child support where I live. So when I say "they can do anything they want" I mean that the H can request to set aside the support guidelines and offer an amount and I will agree. Based on my income, the judge shouldn't have any problem approving whatever request he makes.<P>I'm just so tired of the mess, and we haven't even gotten to the hard part. My delivery is going to be a whole new nightmare for her. She's expecting a phone call from me as soon as I go into labor. Is that wise? Won't it just make an intolerable situation worse? Wouldn't it be better if I just let her know after it was over with? God, it's supposed to be a joyful time for me, but it's going to cause someone else so much pain.<BR>

Heavenly, it wasn't a dig at you. Please don't take it that way. I don't wish to offend anyone here. Some of the responses are a little heated, and I'm okay with that. You have not given me any reason to be disrepectful towards you. You have merely stated what you think and believe. I don't have to agree...hell, I don't even have to like it....but I do need to respect it. If I was out of line by calling you the lawyer in the group, forgive me.

Ohbratti!<P>Why does she want to know when you go into labor? My goodness, I wouldnt want to be sitting there knowing the ow is about to deliver my H's child. That IMO would be agonizing!<P>I need to go to work now, Ill finish this tonite.

I agree with you, if you feel that you can raise your child well as a single parent then by all means do what your heart says. BUT by the same token understand that you are a SINGLE PARENT. The circumstances under which your child will be born were created by MM and by YOU. You were sleeping with a man that was not your husband, did you guys plan a future? This is not a judgement because I too had a child out of wedlock, I was engaged but not married. The first question my mom asked me was "Are you sure YOU can take care of this child because you don't know what tomorrow brings? Well she was absolutely right because in the near future my fiance would have OC with OW and I would be a single mom for almost three years.<P>I believe in your original post you asked if this situation was fair to your child. This situation isn't fair and I am sure we all agree that it isn't to your son (or W)but given your situation it was a possibility anyway (there was no marriage and were you guys living together, planning for the future?) You found out the scumbag was married, leave him alone and raise your baby, if all you say is true and you didn't know, perhaps you should count your lucky stars that you aren't his wife. Circumstances suck but make the best of them and keep the interests of your child a priority. Be the best mommy you can be and walk away if not for the wife because as you say her happiness is not your responsibility, then for the sanity and peace of your family (you and baby).<P>One more thing, let's for a moment say that MM will be in child's life, what will it amount to? A weekend a month? What is that really, is that enough to build a strong father-son relationship. My fiance sees his son once a month for about three hours is that enough? Hell no? Does he think he is doing what he must? Yup, it is selfish in my opinion, three hours, holiday gifts and attending birthday parties to give him peace of mind that he his being a dad. Don't you think that this OC will not resent even a little, the different lifestyles him and his half-siblings are living? Of course but hey that is another can of worms but it is something to think about.<P>I agree with heavenly, why do you want to fight for something you already have? You have custody and unless you shoot dope on the court steps it will remain yours so don't open up that can of worms unless you have to.<P>May God bless you and your baby!!!

Leelee,<P>Do you realize that you are the first to even ask if we were planning a future? The answer is yes. We were making future plans. When he found out where his next duty station was going to be, we talked about moving me out there to be with him. Our relationship was going really well, in the right direction…or so it appeared. It all changed when I found out he was married and I walked away. I refused to have anything to do with him and he went to his home state to visit family….and his wife. She ended up finding out about me and decided she didn't want a divorce after all. She made the comment that she would not lose her husband to me. Part of me wonders if it's just a case of winning/losing to her. Maybe that's too simplistic.<P>As for the custody issue…there's going to be documentation stating that he is the father. I agreed to this. Maybe I shouldn't have, but I did. Therefore, I need to legalize custody. I may have the physical custody (possession) of my child once he's born, but it's not legally binding. As long as there is legal documentation naming him as the father, he can come and walk away with my child at any time and I would have no immediate legal recourse...unless I have court ordered legal and physical custody. Him taking my baby may be unlikely, but still possible. Why would he want to do this? Who knows? I have my doubts about her rationality and mental stability. If she does take action against him through the military, what protection do I have against any attempts at retaliation from him? I want to trust and have faith, but I learned the hard way that a little common sense goes a long way. I would rather be safe than sorry.<BR>

Dear Ohbratti1,<P>I am usually not so thin-skinned but there has been a lot going on in my life over the past few days so I may be seeing things in a distorted way. <P>So, I am sorry if I got so easily offended. And, for the record, I did not mean to sound that I am advocating you giving up your child . I believe that is a decision to be made case-by-case. You obviously will be a good and loving parent and it is true not all adoptive homes are excellent and not all single parent homes are terrible. I believe that everyone who has said something about single parent families has been talking about averages, not individuals.<P>My goodness, this whole thread has gotten amazingly out of hand. I would like to answer a specific point later, but I have to run now. I just wanted to take a moment to say "sorry" and start over again. We started off basically agreeing about the role of the MM as "skunk" regardless of whether you are the OW or the W. And, I still believe that with all my heart.<P>More later.<BR>- Heavenly

o.,<BR>Thank you for your concern. This is about what's unresolved inside me more than your situation; I'm working on it.<P>BTW, I would NOT call the W when you go into labor. That is NONE of her business. This woman does NOT have healthy boundaries with you. I would keep contact to business stuff. It is important to surround yourself with supportive people during your labor/delivery or it can effect your ability to birth. Feel free to notify them at some later time. BTW, if you are doing bloodwork (vs.cheekcells) to determine DNA, you can ask for cordblood to be saved and the poor baby won't have to get an unhappy skinprick. It is possible to have DNA tests done without going through the court system. We paid a private company $600 (let the MM pay). Later, the court did accept the results.<P>I think it's yucky that the W should hold her H's career hostage. Marines in particular can be kicked out for adultery, depending on a few things. We were concerned that the XOW could try that as well, but we have fixed the situation such that she has no power in that now. <P>I gotta go.