Doesnt it usually start with a small group of people? A group that has dealt with such tremendous pain that they finally cry out against the injustice that has caused their pain?<P>Everyone here has dealt with this all too familiar pain...isnt it time we said we are not going to tolerate this anymore?<P>Why should an OW have to go as far as Catnips before you can sniff out a lawyer who might possibly maybe take a case against these homewreckers? Shouldnt there be laws against these evil deceptive malipulative witches? I am talking about these women who KNOWINGLY go after someones husband.<P>Our pliticians yap about family values, yet they are not backing up their yap. Isnt it time we brought this to their attention?<P>Isnt a marriage a legal contract? A woman intrudes upon this and this is legal? Is this the only contract that can be destroyed in such a manner and not have any consequences? Where are our lawyers in here? What do yall think?<P>I say we rally together. Lets get some laws out there. Maybe these woman would then think twice before they so willingly hop into bed with a golden band!

broken_wings:<P>If you have the energy to fight for a crusade for marriages, I'd suggest that you put the effort into educating people on what it takes to have a solid marriage. Teaching people the appropriate behaviors to be successful in following the Four Rules.<P>Looking to legislate in these types of situations is usually misguided and a wasted effort. Many states WITH death penalties on the books have higher murder rates than those without. People who are about to have an affair DON'T think---and they're unlikely to be dissuaded by the strongest of laws.<P>Teaching (or training) married couples how to have great marriages, and how to avoid situations where affairs can occur would seem to me to be the better fight.

I have read plenty of posts here and there are many who have either wished for or actually searched for a lawyer to take their case. Most of these ow have intentionally inflicted pain for their own selfish motives and from what I have read and seen these women and children quickly take precedence over the wife and other children (legally).<P>Even if we can not get laws changed for our own self satisfaction and just to know that there will be some justice for this invasion into our lives, then why cant we get protection for our own familys? Look at Catnip and the action she is having to take to protect her family...is that justice? These people who are having to pay 800$ a month to these people! That is a little bit ridiculous, dont you think. Why should our familys have to suffer bc she chose to keep her child? Yes I do realize that the WS set it up also and I am not putting all the blame on the OW/OM. But ultimately it is the OW's choice to keep the child and try and get all she can out of H. The majority do just that, plus most will continue to inflict pain on the wife!<P>Where is protection for our own lives and our own children's lives?<BR>

<BR>broken_wings,<P>As I understand things, K's position is more, "How can I have the most beneficial effect for my effort?" whereas your position is, "How can I regain some sense of justice from what has happened?"<P>As a practical matter, K's right. Given X hours of volunteer time, I'm quire certain I could do more good for society by teaching couples how to avoid infidelity in the first place. <P>OTOH, I'm a huge advocate for major reforms of child support and child custody laws. What we are doing now is simply sick and morally indefensible, and IMO primarily centers on a lack of father's rights. But changing the family court system will be an incremental war, I think, and victory will only be piecemeal.<P>Bystander

What an interesting discussion this is becoming. Broken Wings, I am with you.<P> I don't know how much reading those posting have done about the nature of EA (why they happen, how and why they end, etc.) There are many, many books and articles on this topic in print and on the Web. And yes, there are steps couples can take to supposedly "affairproof" their marriages. But think about how many of those who post on this site alone say "No one ever dreamed my hhusband/wife was capable of this." or "I always thought we had a wonderful marriage." The fact is unless adultery has already touched a marriage, how likely is any couple to seek out ways to avoid affairs? Yes, some will. But for most of us, finding out that our spouses had been unfaithful was a total shock.<P>The founder of Mothers Against Drunk Driving (MADD) was someone who lost a child as a result of a drunk driving accident. Through her first solitary effort to heighten public awareness about this tragedy and to bring about legislation to punish those who choose to drive drunk, every state now has tough legal consequences for people who are caught choosing to get drunk and drive a car.<P>Of course people still get drunk and drive cars!. But the statistics about the decrease in the numbers of alcohol related traffic deaths prove that at least SOME folks are thinking about the possible consequences and not driving drunk.<P>I think that volunteering to work w/couples in helping them find ways to "affair-proof" their marriages is great. But think about it. Ten years ago, would you and your spouse have signed up for such counseling if you felt that your marriage was rock-solid on a foundation of love, trust, and fidelity? Quite frankly, I wouldn't have. Ten years ago the notion that my H was capable of an EA would have been laughable to both of us.<P>I agree, Bystander, that changing the family court system will be a slow, tedious process.<BR>But so is affair recovery, assuming the families are even able to recover.<P>Why is it that a single woman who set her sights on MY husband knowing full well he was married, got pregnant to keep him when he wouldn't leave our marriage, and then chose to keep the baby in hopes of coercing him into marrying her out of guilt has the unquestioned support of the family court system and my H and I get to pay all the bills for the next 20 years? She CHOSE to bring that child into the world, keep it, and use it for her own personal gain. <P>No, the OW didn't get what she wanted (my H to marry), but that doesn't erase the fact that there is now an illegitimate child who will grow up in a single mother's home unless and until she snags a husband. The lives of her 2 other children (whose father killed himself over her activities) are forever changed.<P>In my family, even they are grown men now, our sons get to try to recover and rebuild a relationship with their father whom they once idolized. I get to live with the memory of my H's physical and emotional affair with this woman and try to be a loving stepmother to this innocent baby. I get to keep working past retirement age to help pay the $800+ a month we have to fork out for cs. Even after 2 years since DDay,I get to go to counseling for God-knows-how-long just to be able to cope with each day so that I can maintain my sanity, my family, and my job every single day for the rest of my life<P>So those of you who see efforts to change the family court system and social acceptance of adultery as misguided, fruitless, or self-serving, go ahead and volunteer to counsel couples or work at prevention building stronger marriages. I respect that notion and that effort. But please respect my efforts to do things the good ole American way: through the courts and legal system! I agree with Broken that we could all be a powerful force in changing laws and procedures to reflect consideration for the lives of ALL victims of adultery.

I agree that the family court system needs to be changed in terms of CS. It seems that those who are willing to pay a fair and reasonable amount get burned at the stake, while those who refuse to pay even less than state guidelines get away with it for years with little or now consequences. <P>My ex is paying about 20% less than state guidelines. He's 10's of thousands behind. Every 18 months or so they haul him into court, ask why he's gotten even farther behind, he has no excuse other than he feels he should not have to pay child support for two children that he fathered within the marriage. He'll pay a few hundred to keep out of jail, and then it's business as usual. Everytime I complain, they'll start enforcement, and if he makes even one payment of only $10, we are back to square one. <P>I'd like to know where I can get a loan for 10's of thousands of dollars, pay it back as I feel like it for as long as I want and pay no interest whatsoever. That's basically what my ex is getting. <P>It almost seems that it doesn't pay to do the "right thing".

<BR>PamO,<P>I know this isn't the best sounding deal, but listen up.<P>If you're convinced that your ex may get away with not paying some of the CS, you might think about making him an offer to settle his backlog at a discount - say, 60% of what he owes in arrears. Such deals are fairly common, and might be an OK deal if you could tie future payments to wage garnishment. He might take the offer to get a clean slate.<P>Bystander