Hi all,<BR> <BR>Just as an FYI, I'm not new to the board. I'm a.k.a. Matthew.<BR>As previously stated, my husband wants to be a part of his daughter's life. I've agreed to support him in this. However, we've come to a stand still in talking and communicating about this. I'm not sure why, but I think it has something to do with my terms for supporting this. Take a look at what I've decided I can live with:<P>I agree with supporting this little baby (OC) financially and emotionally. However, I do not agree with my husband being a co-parent with xow. My boundaries are:<BR>Contact only in cases of emergency.<BR>Contact only in the event our visitation will be interupted due to illness/special circumstances.<P>That shouldn't sound too unreasonable. (Maybe to a father it does...I don't know??) Since he made this choice to be involved a couple of months back, I've had time to deal with it. However, he recently received notification of her birth, but along with notification, xow thought it was important enough to include her feelings in the letter (how she doesn't know if she'll ever forgive him...he turned this into a nightmare etc).<BR>This leads me to believe she still has feelings (good or bad) and will have a hard time putting them aside and dealing with the only important issue, THIS CHILD.<BR>According to her, the three of us need to sit down and discuss how this will work. Sounds reasonable right??? <BR>NOT TO A WIFE!!! For what reason would I ever want to sit down with her? I did it once when this whole mess blew up, but once was more than enough. As far as I'm concerned, she can deal with our lawyer, who will in turn do our bidding. Whatever we are comfortable with, I'm sure a lawyer would be more than capable in relaying to her in a professional and perhaps compassionate manner. <P>I just want to set the tone right up front for what could be a long journey. Duranie said it best in her recent post...the wife holds the cards at this point.<P>I'm willing to bend on this, but I'll be dam*$ if I'm gonna break!<P>Any suggestions on how to get spouse to open up and also to see things my way are greatly appreciated.<BR>signed...toobadsosad <P>

I have been wondering the same thing bc my H has a real hard time accepting that I have a role in this. The way he sees it is it was his mistake and he will take care if it. He thinks I should not worry about it and wont even talk about it. If I bring it up he looks at it like I am bringing up the affair. I am not. I would just like to know how we are dealing with this for the next 18 years.<P>What about them coming here and reading posts. I have thought about asking my H to do just that. I do not think he will though...he claims he hates to read.<P>Has anyones H done this?

broken_wings<P>I think this whole lack of communication/my problem and not yours attitude goes back to how men and women see marriage differently.<P>I've tried to explain to my husband that yes...he did this to himself, but he also did this to us. And if he is asking me to help him get through this, he'll have to let me help him get US through this. <P>The word of God states (I'm paraphrasing)<BR>a man shall leave his mother and father and cling unto his wife and the two shall become ONE. <P>I wish our spouses saw it that way.<BR>

broken_wings<P>You asked has anyone H done this, yes, mine has and does. One day he wants the baby and it is my fault he don't see it, then I say, ok, lets see the child, then he don't want to, says its not my deal, and not my concern and for me not to push him. What? How can that be. Oh I see, its not our concern because, his A is not my concern. He don't want to go there, might have to actually face what he really did, and whom that he did it to. These M/W are masters at cop outs, I mean really, I got to thinking I love this sight, and it has helped me. When I feel as though, I can't take anymore, I come here and read, or write. Its uplifting to see others going through the same thing I am, and staying so strong. You women/men have given me great courage. A big thanks to you all. Oh did I get off track. What I was saying was, here we sit, hurting, wondering, and trying to recover from the awful hand of cards that our H/W delt us. And where are the H/W? watching TV? or what ever? Gee, It must be nice to live in a world that someone would go through so much just to be with me. Hmmm, do you think they even consider that? Why for one min. should we/I even have to hold back, emotions, anger, or whatever we are feeling for them, to make this easier for them to deal with? Where was their concern for our feelings? I understand they feel guilty, so what. I mean do they learn not to do it again when someone forgives them so easily(I am speaking for myself here)? I married him not her. She didn't owe me anything he did. How can people do this to other people? HOW! Its not fair..

The very first thing we must all remember is that in order for a marriage to stay strong there has to be a sense of oneness. If you are trying to talk to a man you could say a team effort. ALL decisions made by anyone on the team MUST be agreed upon or the team will suffer. <BR>You are right on track to keep everything professional. IMHO having a lawyer handle the whole situation is the only way to go. The benefits are many, ie. She can never come back and say you told her something or H told her something and try and turn you against each other. You know nothing will be decided upon without you knowing. Your H has no excuse for any contact.<BR>What ever you decide remember to put up a united front. Don't allow this OW to come between you again. Don't allow her to use the OC to try and come between you either.<BR>

Have yall seen the movie "Story of Us"? If not, see it. It is definatly a tear jerker, but it is beautiful.<P>The wife in the movie describes a paper she did in college on a book called "Harold and the Purple Crayon". Harold had a purple crayon and colored the world the way he wanted it. He made his own reality. She said that was the way her H was...he was Harold and he drew his world the way he wanted it. The problem with this is when one person draws their own the world the way they want to the other has to draw it the way it really is. That is why they never wrote a book about Harold's wife. It is very cute!<P>Anyway my H is Harold with the purple crayon and I am his wife.<P>It really is a great movie. Gosh I hope I am making some sense...I had to close at work tonight so it is 2:30 am and I am a little bit sleepy...lol

<p>[ May 24, 2002: Message edited by: echo ]</p>

Toobadsosad,<P>I love your new name!<P>I learned something here in this group that may help you. My H was also dealing with the OW on his own. Since he came from a broken home he was really torn up and guilty about the OC and wanted to give her as much support as possible.<P>I have problems with that -- the usual -- she is a reminder of the worst part of my marriage -- but I put that behind me and focused on the innocence of the OC. But that is when the OW went into high gear. She was calling my H, asking for extra things for the OC, and they were basically "co-parenting" as you said. To make things worse, my H was not informing me of the extent of their conversations and meetings.<P>It was driving me crazy, but my H felt that it was his situation and he was handling the best way he could. What was really happening was that he was being suckered by a manipulative OW who was still in love with him and still hoping that she could use the OC as a bargaining chip to break up our marriage.<P>Someone here reminded that when we find out about the A and the OC, and the couple makes a decision to stay together, then the most important thing is to face everything as a team. The marriage has to come first. For the H and the OW to deal with each other is like them having a secret together and you are kept outside the secret. After all we have been through we don't want any more secrets.<P>My H understood this a little better when I explained it this way. Co-parenting is support for the OW NOT the OC. Support for the OC means that YOU and your H are there for the child and the child will see a loving home with two parents.<P>One more thing, do not underestimate the level of jealousy the OW has towards your marriage. Many OW claim they want their child to have a father, but what they really want is for the H to become involved so that the OC can pull him away from his W and towards the OW. The thought of the OC sharing in the happines of the marriage and the H's family is sometimes too much for the OW to take. <P>This is a side benefit -- your happiness is driving her crazy -- so stay happy and stay in the picture. And, when you get those feelings, as we all do, that you can't go on with this situation, write to us and we'll get you through.<P>Good luck and God bless you.<P>- Heavenly

Trying...maybe you are right about ow's concerns...BUT the worst thing I think an ow could do is to try and "help" W and H marriage. Ow has probably "helped" enough. Ow's best bet is to stay out of it and let them handle their marriage on their own, like they should have done in the first place.<P>If ow is really that concerned about the child's actual safety then she should have it checked out by another party. Plus I believe even those that are in the deepest stages of pain are not about to harm an innocent child.

As I am sure you guys know, trytobestrong is my H OW. We have worked on making the best of this, but something about her post really bothered me. One, I felt as though, OW was implying that I would abuse her child. Isn't that just another stab in the back for me? Maybe, it wasn't, maybe it was, maybe I am too sensitive. The other thing that bothered me was the implication, which I felt, maybe noone eles did, was that I would want the baby here, and take over her job as a mother. Not, that he is not a sweet child, because he is, But I do know my limits, and I have expressed them to her. I sometimes get the feeling that she thinks her c is the most important factor in our lives. What she fails to remember is I have 4 wonderful c of my own. I have tried to open a door in our lives for this innocent child, but this is almost too much, impling that I would in some form, abuse it. If you ask me, the OW and H are guilty of one of the highest forms of child abuse possible. Not me.

Whoa ! Noodles how in the world did your H's xow and you come to be on the same board ? Just curious, I've seen it happen before here. But never when an OC was involved. <P>------------------<BR>Deb<P>Hepatitis C, Please educate yourself ! <A HREF="http://www.hepatitis-central.com/<P>In" TARGET=_blank>http://www.hepatitis-central.com/<P>In</A> memory of a very dear friend <A HREF="http://fathom.org/teemingmillions/wally.adp" TARGET=_blank>http://fathom.org/teemingmillions/wally.adp</A>

WOW I didnt know yall were on the same board..I am also a curios cat...how did THAT happen???<P>I thought about leading the ow in our life here so she could see this side of it, but then I thought this is kinda my little sanctuary and I wouldnt want her invading it.

<p>[ May 24, 2002: Message edited by: echo ]</p>

To Trying<P>I think you're too close and too concerned about what might or might not go on in their household. I'm not a mother yet...but I undertand you wanting the child to not be witness to or part of their marital problems.<BR>HOWEVER,<BR>That's not your concern. Your focus needs to be on what you have direct and immediate control and influence over, and that's what goes on with your child while it's in your household. <BR>Think for one minute. What if you get married? Don't you think the child's father will have the same concerns about the child's welfare around another adult figure that will have a direct influence on their upbringing? BUT, what will this child's biological father be able to do about his concern? Absolutely nothing. <BR>All I'm saying is if the situation at their house is hostile, trust this father's paternal instincts to kick in and protect his child. That's all you can do. Stop being so concerned about what you can't control. Get out of their lives! I'm sure you'll appreciate the same respect and distance when you're dealing with marital issues with your own husband (and trust me, when you do marry, you'll have issues!)

To Heavenly,<P>Thanks so much for that good little tidbit...how you spelled out the difference between supporting child and supporting ow. I think I'll add that to my aresenal! Glad you like the name...that's how I feel right now, there are some tough decisions to be made, but...I didn't create the circumstances!<P>I too want to put this behind me and focus on this little girl's innocence. She did nothing wrong. <P>But I also don't want to feel outnumbered. She has two parents that will look out for her welfare. My primary concern will now and forever be my marriage. It doesn't mean I'd ever hurt her, but in this situation, there's going to be plenty of hurting and comprimise going around both for the good of my marriage and the good of this little bundle of joy.<BR>Tough situation but...just like my new name indicates...'too bad, so sad'.

<p>[ May 24, 2002: Message edited by: echo ]</p>

As everyone can see I am a very confused and frustated person. One day I am fine and happy next I am sad and angery. I hate it. All though, i must say it does at times make it alot eaiser to be friendly with the OW, instead of fighting. I have bitterness, like I am sure she does. But we seem to be able to work that out. Why work that out, you ask me, Well, heres the story. I myself am the child of an A. The W, used me as a tool, in hurting and punishing her husband, not saying I don't understand what she did and why, which in turn did nothing to really harm him, but in reality, hurt me, and the my other brothers and sisters, which I might add that, I do not know to this day, because they hate me, because of thier mothers bitterness. I just don't want to make the same mistake as her, that is why it is easier for me to deal with the OW. For all the childrens sake, involved. So I guess you could say, I have a differant perspective on this. Not saying that sometimes it is not hard, because it is, but I am hoping in the long run it will work out to be the best for everyone. I did tell her about this site, because she was hurting just like all of us here, and I thought it might help. Its a very difficult situation that we all in, I am just trying to make it easier. Another thing, my husband, puts constant blame on me for him not seeing the child, I know he's wrong, but it still makes me feel bad, so I figure this is the only way.

Noodles,<BR>I commend you on wanting to do the best by all the children involved but I think you are going about it incorrectly. First and foremost you and strong cannot be friends. Regardless to the status of your marriage at the time of the affair, she disrespected you, she knew your H was married. You guys cannot be friends there is too much resentment. <BR>First and foremost you should not be telling her about what goes on in your marriage. Your marriage is none of her business and excuse me if I am wrong but a great deal of your marital problems is because of the A that occurred between OW and H. She is your H's child's mother. You deal with her with respect to the OC and that is it...PERIOD. Can you honestly say you trust her? <BR>I am trying to make sense of this situation but I cannot except to say that it is extremely unhealthy. There is no need for fighting or bickering all the time but noodles you cannot be friends with her, to me it just seems impossible, too many painful feelings involved. You can be cordial and be part of decisions made about visitation, $$$, etc. There have to be limits set so that you can heal and perhaps your marriage can heal (as long as your H is working on it with you) this is not promoting your or your marriage's healing. God bless you.