I've been gone only since Friday and I come back to...THIS?<P>A few months ago, I asked Dr. Harley to provide a site for those of us dealing with the heartbreak and the difficult issues surrounding a pregnancy or OC resulting from our WS's affair. <P>The request was made (and granted by Dr. Harley) because it was noticed that so many 'newbies' dealing with these special circumstances were coming to General Questions daily and I was concerned they would get lost through the cracks if there wasn't a site provided specifically focused on this special dilemma/circumstance.<P>The only criteria for posting on this particular site was that the BETRAYED spouse or the WAYWARD spouse could come here for guidance, advice, information, support, comfort and solace. <P>This site is not FOR OP's. This site (in a small way) is ABOUT OP's. We have made an exception in the case of Duranie because of her sincerity and willingness to accept responsibility; her attitude is unique.<P>Because of our acceptance of Duranie, it has given other OP's the indication that they are welcome as well, when in fact, as far as I am concerned, they are not. But that is my point of view. <P>I am not comfortable with or interested in OP's posting, venting and whining and muelling about how "he done me wrong" under any circumstances.<P>This site was specifically designed and created to serve the Betrayed's and Wayward's and to address their OC issues, sans OP's.<P>I submit to the OP's (except Duranie) to create their own forum via e.groups as Happy Girl suggested as I believe you have a right to have a place where you can go as well...and I believe, it ain't here.<P>I apologize for a less than articulate post as I am once again out the door. More later.<P>Catnip =^^= <p>[This message has been edited by catnip (edited October 17, 2000).]

Thank you Catnip.<P>Although I haven't posted much lately, I am now considering myself on "oldie", being here since the early part of the summer, and lurking prior to that for two months. I have tried to use this site to gain insite into how I can possibly make a marriage work, given that my H and I cannot completely follow the Harley principles (no breaking off contact since a child is involved). I have on occasion vented rage at my H for his continued involvement in life of OW and now her child. But I try very dilligently to use this forum to figure out how to try and keep my marriage together. I am not sure why an OW or OM would be posting here, given that objective. I would have to presume they have other objective.<P>But I have learned from the postings by these folks. My only fear is that some newcomer might not find the knowledge that I sought when I started posting. They may be put off by these other posts. That would be sad.<P>I am extremely thankful for what I have gained from this site. I have learned from everything I have read. There is no telling what a sad mess I would be without the information passed on here. <P>Thanks to all who have shared their sad stories for the benefit of others.<P>Carolyn

Thanks, Carolyn. <P>I was thinking this site's guidelines could be along the lines of say, Alcoholic's Anonymous, in the sense that their only requirement is a desire to stop drinking...in other words, the people who attend AA are alcoholics with a specific problem and their meetings are CLOSED to people who do not adhere to their principles. Gawkers and thrillseekers with hidden agendas are quickly ferreted out so as not to disrupt their purpose or to dissuade newcomers. <BR>It should be the same type of priciple here for us. <BR>I don't want newbies, fresh from 'discovery' coming here for solace and support to find a hostile environment thick with disgruntled OP's using this forum to flame a former lover's spouse or brag about their ability to produce a child or whine that life's not fair.<P>Just my opinion.<P>Catnip =^^=<p>[This message has been edited by catnip (edited October 17, 2000).]

Catnip-<BR>That is EXACTLY why I volunteered to leave the site(although I really don't want to .<BR>I figured that because of the groups "acceptance" of me then maybe that is why the "rest" feel welcomed here as well. If I left maybe they would follow? My offer still stands if it will help the REAL members here.<BR>BTW, I hope all is well with you! Take care!

Dear Catnip,<P>Thank goodness you are back! I was working overtime. It was a mess alright. <P>Welcome back.<BR>weep

Catnip:<P>Don't apologize. You articulated beautifully, as always! I couldn't agree with you more! Amen!! So glad you're back!<P>Weep: You DID work very hard to keep things together and I appreciate your efforts and your support. Thanks!<P>I was thinking last night that if this was a traditional type of support group, where we would all be face-to-face, exchanging, sharing and being open and feeling very vulnerable, I know that I wouldn't want the OW (mine or anyone else's ) sitting in or contributing to those sessions!! Why would anyone want that? The whole reason for being in a traditional type setting of a support group would be to get emotional support and guidance from people in the same boat...not from the people who caused you the pain in the first place! Again, Catnip, you're correct. It's the same principal in AA and other support group/self help environments...and it should be the same here. <P>I didn't want to leave...I know that day will come when it's time. But it isn't right now.<P>Comfort<P>------------------<BR>Remember the sunshine when the storm seems unending...

one other thing...can someone please tell me what OP stands for?

Other person or it can be original post

Catnip,<P>Is there any way we could expand this message board? <BR>I've thought about it, and in some ways I do see value in reading different perspectives on the gut-wrenching subject. However, I feel supported in knowing that this space is dedicated to wives that are going throught this and need support.<BR>I'd like to see dialogue with the OW concerning issues with OC/MS, but perhaps that should be a whole other heading on the Forum menu. After all, it is a whole new perspective on this age-old topic, (Wayward spouses and their illegitimate childern).<P>Just a thought.<BR>

Hey...don't you have another handle here as well?<P>You suggestion is a provocative one.<BR>Perhaps someone (you or someone else) could ask Dr. Harley to provide a site particularly for the OW with an OC resulting with an affair with a MM. That way, those on this site who wish to ask questions of them on their site could and those who do not wish to deal with them wouldn't have to. <BR>I don't know if we'd be opening a HUGE can of worms doing that or not...I personally am not crazy about having a lot of dialogue with OW's...they belong on Glory. B or Affairs of Secrecy or other forums. I don't know if they really have a place here other to antagonize newbies or fragile MB members dealing with this severe kind of heartache.<P>I guess it's best left up to the experts...the Harley's to determine if OW input would have any value here. It is the Harley's forum and they may or may not think this is something that would enhance or hurt us. <BR>I know we have OW's coming to MB occasionally and even have our own resident OW here on this particular site, however, I would hate to see it infiltrated with herds of OW's with an axe to grind. This would do more damage than good and change the purpose of this site.<P>I guess it's a horse a piece and I have given my opinion for what it is worth. Let some of the others post their thoughts and if there is a strong consenus that they want or need OW input, then someone can call on Harley to provide a site for that purpose.<P>Catnip =^^=

Taj gave me Proverbs 4-6. <P>"For the lips of an adulteress drip honey, and her speech is smoother than oil; but in the end she is BITTER AS GALL, SHARP as a DOUBLE EDGED SWORD. Her feet go down to death; her steps lead straight to the grave. SHE GIVES NO THOUGHT TO THE WAY OF LIFE; HER PATHS ARE CROOKED, BUT SHE KNOWS IT NOT." 5:3-6<P>In a nutshell, if you are a wronged and suffering and tormented wife, you would not get the help you need in healing from OWS.<P>You don't need to share your husbands because that would be the OWs wish, and if they were to tell you the truth, you will be shocked to know that they think you are in the WAY - they want your husband all to themselves. GO to TOW board, or other similar boards and you will get perspectives alright. Perspectives that will make you think that 'how could your H be with such things?' Their paths really are crooked and to them the wives have crossed their paths - the wives are the WRONG ones! They picture themselves as rescuers of the MM from a horrid wife. <P>I would definitely not post on MB site if there is a forum that specifically support OW and molly coddle their affairs. I can imagine the headings:<P>Call the Wife!<BR>mmm MM, mmm MM<BR>How dare she!<BR>This site is for OWs only!<BR>OWs on MB - Marriage Busters!<P><BR>It will be a crazy world if that happens, I will go off the Harleys, I will think some aliens kidnapped them and scrambled their brains. <P>Yours truly<BR>weep<P>P.S. Duranie, I know you are fully repentant and I am speaking of the other 99.99% of OWs.<P>

I feel I should say I am sorry, because I lead the OW of my H here. I thought maybe it would be useful for her to see what I was going through. OW might gain something from it. But instead OW used it as another way to get people to feel sorry for her. She is good at it, she even had me feeling bad for her. OW used it to jab me in a public forum, and I let her, because, I didn't want to be the reason for the oc did not to have a daddy. OW played on that guilt, and once again edged her way into OUR marriage. However, I did learn her true colors, by her coming here. She was not out to help, or just in this for her c benifit, she had a piticular interest..My H. No matter what OW says. It took all of this for me to see that. But, I am sorry that it came at the expense of so many others. Set backs in their recovery, or leaving. For that I am truly sorry.

Noodles:<P>Don't worry about it...we all learned something very, very valuable from this experience.<P>I didn't feel sorry for your OW...i thought she was ridiculous and pathetic.<P>Poof! She is insignificant and no longer an issue.<P>Stay strong, Noodles. We love you; you're just confused from all the pain and weirdness in your life. Don't get sucked into the guilt and lies of something you had no part in...no misplaced guilt allowed here...<P>Love <P>Catnip =^^=

Weep....whew. You said it best. I feel like I've been to the mountain. Thanks<P>Catnip =^^=

Catnip-<BR>Thank you. That means alot to me. Hopefully I don't stay this confused for long. <P>God Bless<BR>N dles<P>[This message has been edited by noodles (edited October 19, 2000).]<p>[This message has been edited by noodles (edited October 19, 2000).]

noodles, dont feel guilty about oc not having father envolved. That is the choice ow made when she got preg from someone she had no business being with. In the beginning I felt like that to. Iam so glad now that we choose not to have nothing more to do with her other than what she can take money wise. I think most of these ding bats think that there kids should be looked at as in a divorce. One day it my be now or it my be 20 years but the ow will get what they deserve one day. I was working outside today I get doing one thing and go to another cant stick to one thing foe very long I act like a child with ADD . See ya later Flowerseed

Weep: Well said! My opinion: I am not at all interested in what OW would have to say. (Duranie the exception, of course). IMO, they have nothing to offer to me. Anything they'd have to teach, I'm not interested learning. <P>Catnip: you're right...it's been a valuable lesson. <P>Noodles: you hang in there. We're here to support you and help you through this...without help from OW! <P>Comfort<P>------------------<BR>Remember the sunshine when the storm seems unending...

flowerseed-<BR>I agree with you, that it is the responsibility, of the ow, but I can't help but seeing the oc as an innocent victim, with no choice , much the same as me, no choice at if I want to deal with this or not? Does that make sense, you really think it is best to let it go? I am so sick of wrestling with this question. <P>Comfort41<BR>These words of yours hit me like a brick...<P>"Strong: One side?..what you mean is you were hoping to bring us around to YOUR side and possibly justify what you did. You were hoping for WAY too much. From my point of view, as a cheated on wife, there is only one side...MINE. I didn't ask for the lies, I wasn't part of it and I didn't ask for that OC to be born. The OC was born out of lies, betrayal and deception. No amount of "justification" is going to make that right."<P>Thank you for saying what I have WANTED to say to her for so long. Thanks..God Bless each and everyone of you. I mean it..you don't know how much you have helped me.!!!!<BR><p>[This message has been edited by noodles (edited October 19, 2000).]

I want to say that although I am not dealing with the issues that this site deals with, instead I deal with step children issues and infidelity - I check frequently to see how you all are doing.<P>I have to say that I agree with Taj and Catnip - and I would like to offer this Bible story that becomes the basis for my opinion:<P>Abraham and Sarah were married. God promised them a son. Sarah gave her maidservent to Abraham so he could have a son. Abraham had a son, Ishmael from Haggai, the maidservent. <P>Finally, Sarah had a son; Isaac. There was discord because of Haggai and her son. It wasn't Haggai's fault, and in fact was more Sarah's fault than Haggai's that there was this problem. Abraham was just as wrong. Regardless, God said it was better for Haggai and her son Ishmael to go out into the wilderness, and leave Abraham. It was better, because God believes in marriage.<P>This leaves the OC without a human father. This is what GOD decided was best, and this is the basis for my belief - that OC and OP (especially in the case of OW) should be sent away from WS and BS.<P>ALSO: This site is a "marriage builder" tadah.... Marriage! This is a marriagebuilder site, and specifically to deal with OC issues! That is so self explanatory, that I am appalled that it has gotten to the point that catnip brought up this thread.<P>Marriage is paramount. It is the most important relationship to preserve. It is what brings stability to the children of the marriage, and step children. It is the primary relationship, and this site is for that purpose. <P>That is my opinion, and my belief.<BR>TNT