Just so some of you know exactly where sm59 and I are coming from, here's our history. I will try to make it short.<P>We have been married for 11.5 yrs, but have had a relationship for 15. We had a child out of wedlock that we put up for adoption, due to our ages, and not being able to give that child the life it would deserve. We were married a year later, and had our son a year and 3 months after that. The first case of infidelity was about 2 years after our son was born, while I was pregnant with our daughter. I found out from letters that OW had written to H. Needless to say, that was a hard one to handle. <P>The next thing to happen was on my part about 2.5 yrs later. And I will admit that for me it was something that I did to "get back" at him. He never found out about that until our current situation came about. Around this time, we had decided that we were done having children, so he went in to get that taken care of.<P>The next 6 years were basically lived in ignorance on my part. With H being in the Navy, he and I were apart for long periods of time. He had been keeping in touch with the first OW for quite a while, even having lunch with her at one time. Then, when he went to school, away from us, it happened again. Then again, at our last duty station. When he came here before the rest of the family, it happened one more time, and they decided to have OW and me be friends so that they could still see eachother once I arrived here. About the time that this last one ended was when I got caught up in my OM. When the kids and I arrived here, it had been since Jan that we had actually lived as a family, due to schools (H's and the kids)and it is hard to jump right back in the relationship when there has been such a large period of time between being together. I was missing that, and shortly after we arrived, he left again for a month. I'm not looking to make excuses, just trying to let you know where I was emotionally. When I met OM, he was attentive to my feelings, and we talked a lot about both our marriages. Although, I didn't have anything bad to say about H at all, I just hated the fact that in the last year we had been seperated so much, due to the job. Just like in Dr. Harley's "His Needs, Her Needs", those emotional needs started to be met. Especially when the job took him away for another 5 mos straight. <P>Anyway, I got long winded, sorry. When H got back home, I felt even more guilty than I ever did during the 5 mos he was gone, but every time I would say something to OM about wanting to stop, he would hint that he would tell H about 6 yrs ago as well as what had been going on. One thing lead to another, and OM came over to force me to tell H about us. OM continued, after I came out with the truth, to taunt about what had happened and wouldn't leave when asked, and he ended up throwing the first punch. I got a neighbor to pull them apart, and when H went in to call the police, is when OM threatened H's life, to me and infront of the neighbor. He continued even after that to watch our house, and try to talk to me. When I told him, to his face that I didn't want anything else to do with him, he threatened to tell H about 6 yrs ago. I still refused, and got a harrasment charge filed against him, to add to the assault/adultry(military does prosecute for that). We changed our phone #, and told no one what it was. Around that time, H was feeling guilty about what he had done in the past 6 yrs, and came clean, so, I did the same. It has been a very long road for the two of us, that had a bomb planted right in the middle of it for when we found out that I was expecting. To be honest, God really does work in amazing ways, because we both were in the mind set to terminate the pregnancy, but the only number we could find was to a place like Crisis Pregnancy, which, of course, refused to give us any info on clinics. After I spoke with them, we called my parents. I thank God for them every single day. We told them everything, and they further helped us realize that none of this is the child's fault. The next thing to decide was what to do.<P>With our history of already going through an adoption before, it was a hard one to make. On my side, I didn't want to have H go through the next 18-20 yrs, raising OM child, especially after what OM had done. On his side, he didn't want me to have to go through the pain of carrying a baby for 9 mos and then handing it over to someone else again. We also thought of our children, and trying to explain to them why we couldn't keep the baby that I was going to have. Needless to say, I was leaving it up to my H for what the finaly decision would be, and I didn't pressure him. When he told me what he had decided, he said, "We said before that God will not give us anymore than we can handle. And I know, that with God's help, we can do this together." <P>There are still times when we both have our doubts, but we talk to eachother about them. Our reason for coming to this board is to try to get some perspective of what we are heading in to. Mostly for him, but also for me. Just because I am the one who is having the child, we are both WS, and BS. It is just a more prominant reminder of what I have done. Some of the help that we are looking for is what to expect, emotionally, and what we can do to overcome some of the situations that may come up(ie: OM trying to get custody or visitation if he finds out, especially with what OM has done). I want to apologize to anyone that I may have offended, my only excuse is that I am quite emotional, since I am still pregnant, and I feel that this may help some of you understand that SM59 was not the only one wronged in our situation. But also that we HAVE been through a lot together, and aren't going to just throw it away. In the last 4 months, we have been up and down so much, beating ourselves up for what we've done, that when certain things are said, they pour a pound of salt on that wound. We are here for help, and also to help those who ask us for it. We don't want to make anyone angry or upset. I just want to say that I am sorry if I came off the wrong way, but sometimes it happens.<P>To Bystander:<P>I want to directly apologize to you about the way that I came off. It was just that we have worked so hard to get where we are, and have discussed many different situations for keeping or adopting out this child. We are at the point where this child will be raised by both of us as our own, and we didn't want any surprizes from OM later down the road. Your information has been very helpful in every way, and I really do appreciate all your help. I am normally a very emotional person, to only have it increased right now due to the pregnancy. Again, I apologize, and would welcome any further help you may be to us and our situation.<P>I hope that maybe this will help some of you understand where we have come from, where we are now, and where we hope to be years down the road. Any insight to feelings on either the H or the wife's part of raising OC will be helpful. We are here to get support as well as to offer it, if that is what someone needs from us. I don't want to turn this into a gripe session or anything else that might be negative. I want to help and be helped, so please understand and accept my apology to any I may have offended.<P>Tigger4jdt

Tigger:<P>Thanks for the more concise history. It certainly explains and makes clear a lot of things. <P>You and your husband are working together toward the same goal. What ever your ultimate decision, I know that you will both prevail together and find a closer and more meaningful marriage now that you are armed with Harley's principles and the guidance and advice from the group.<P>It was good of you to apologize to Bystander, however, his hide is thick and he has a huge heart. <P>His pragmatic wisdom and intellect has been and is invaluable to all of us here on the forum. He means no insult and you will come to know that his advice is without emotion and strictly from a common sense approach. His facts are well studied and his advice is well thought out without allowing personalities to confuse the issue. <P>I can see where someone new to the forum could take his comments/advice personally, however, as a much respected and long time member of the forum with no axe to grind (he has no special situation as we all do), I see him as a gift or a beacon sent to us to inform, teach and to offer counsel. He is a personal friend of mine. I have met him, I know him, I deeply respect him and I know his agenda is pure. <BR>You haven't been here long enough to know and appreciate Bystander's style. Now that you know where Bystander is coming from, you will be able to accept his information openly without feeling that you are being chastised or personally attacked as that is not his style nor his intent. He is one of the most generous and kindest people I know and he can see reality without letting emotion get in the way of solid advice that could ultimately bring you peace and protection to both you and your husband.<P>I took his advice and even though I am divorcing my husband to protect myself, it is a 'faux' divorce for show only. When the dust settles, we will remarry. It never occurred to me to do this until he mentioned it and it is working well for us.<P>You and your husband have been through so much and have made terrible mistakes but it doesn't seem to me that they are irreparable. You both seem committed to changing your lives and dedicating yourselves to each other. The obstacles you face and the decisions you have to make will come to you. The solutions are at hand. You have come to the right place and everyone here is eager to help and offer whatever they can to help and guide. <P>Most importantly, employ the Harley principles into your recovery and you will both surely succeed with your willing and open hearts.<P>Catnip =^^=

<BR>Catnip,<P>Stop it or I'll start blushing! <P>Tigger,<P>Thanks for the apology, its accepted but totally unnecessary! I know that I use rather strong rhetoric at times, but the truth is, I don't mind being a lightning rod for honesty. I've been "shot at" for worse things, IMO. <P>And Tigger,<P>I wish I had West Law on my desktop, it would make searching law so much easier...but check these out. Here is your state's assumed paternity law:<BR> <A HREF="http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/vol12/hrs584/hrs_584-4.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/vol12/hrs584/hrs_584-4.htm</A> <P>From which I've extracted the conflict language here:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>If two or more presumptions arise which conflict with each other, the presumption which on the facts is founded on the weightier considerations of policy and logic controls.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I didn't know what to make of that. Does the presumption of paternity trump an OM's bid for paternity, or is this left to a case by case decision? <P>Without case law in front of me (which I'd have to check at the library), about the only signal from legislation I see is this:<BR> <A HREF="http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/vol12/hrs578/hrs_578-2.htm" TARGET=_blank>http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/hrscurrent/vol12/hrs578/hrs_578-2.htm</A> <P>Which contains the language on Hawaii's assumed paternity law, as it relates to adoption. Its a little long, so I won't repost the entire thing, but here's the part that I thought would interest you:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>He [the putative father] acknowledges his paternity of the child in writing filed with the department of health, which shall promptly inform the mother of the filing of the acknowledgment, and she does not dispute the acknowledgment within a reasonable time after being informed thereof, in a writing filed with the department of health. If another man is presumed under this section to be the child's father [meaning, assumed paternity from marriage!!!], acknowledgment may be effected only with the written consent of the presumed father or after the presumption has been rebutted. If the acknowledgment is filed and not disputed by the mother and if another man is not presumed under this section to be the child's father, the department of health shall prepare a new certificate of birth in accordance with chapter 338.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>This clause should grab your attention: "acknowledgment may be effected only with the written consent of the presumed father or after the presumption has been rebutted." I'm not a lawyer, but a plain English reading of that tells me that even if the OM knew of the child, he couldn't claim paternity against your H's wishes during an adoption proceeding. I don't know if that clause applies only to pending adoption proceedings, or if it applies in general. Case law would clarify that, I'm sure.<P>Btw, I looked and could find no law requiring you to inform the OM about the child. I caution that such a law may be in the HI statutes and I'm a crummy searcher, and this isn't legal advice anyhow, etc.<P>Bystander

Thank you all (especially bystander) for the advice and help. We are grateful for this site and the help that it provides. We would appreciate any more help that is offered and are more than willing to help anyone who would ask for it from us.