Catnip, <P>I remember that you said that OW would be served papers in October notifying her that you are suing her. How is that progressing? I haven't noticed any updates.<P>Hope you are ok. <P>Love, <BR>anniem<p>[This message has been edited by anniem (edited November 03, 2000).]

anniem:<P>Funny you should ask today of all days. <P>The lawsuit has been dormant due to lack of funds, HOWEVER, I just spoke to the attorney this morning and told him that I would have something for him next week. He said he would like to have OW served this month for sure, before the holidays.<P>So, even though we have been delayed a month, we are still proceeding with the suit. Our attorney is still dedicated, determined and eager to make impact. He seems to think if a certain candidate is elected we would have a much better chance of resurrecting dormant laws that could help turn the tide of the current regime. Vote Tuesday.<P>At any rate, we are still committed and focused and only temporarily delayed in our aggressive campaign to set a precedence. This WILL happen. Pray for God's will.<P>And, pray for me. I am having a hell of a time. I am in the midst of my two year anniversary of all the events that changed my life forever. I cannot explain why this is harder this year than last, but it is. In part, I think, because last year we were distracted by the telephone testimonies and all the fallout. We were bound together by a common cause. <P>While we still have a myriad of issues, things are better between us and we are making our way back to each other and this is where I hit the wall. I find I am now the one who has pulled back a bit. As deeply as I loved him, I don't feel that for him anymore. I mean, I do love him, it just isn't quite like it was. I don't know if that part of me will ever be recovered.<P>When we first got back together, I felt it, probably deeper than ever because of how close we came to loosing it. Now HE is the one fighting and Plan A'ing me. I heard that this happens on the forum, I just didn't realize how true. The tragedy is that I am complacent about it. I look at him still and wonder, "how could you?"<P>Maybe this lawsuit will help me take back what is rightfully mine and help restore some of what has been lost.<P>Thanks for your interest, anniem. I will keep you apprised of any new developements as they happen. <P>Catnip =^^=

catnip:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>...and this is where I hit the wall. I find I am now the one who has pulled back a bit. As deeply as I loved him, I don't feel that for him anymore. I mean, I do love him, it just isn't quite like it was.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>In the recovery process, this often happens. As Steve told me many times, I should expect to lead throughout almost all of recovery, but not to be surprised if it's my wife who drags me for the last 10%. You'll often tire and burn out after this lengthy process---but with luck, your spouse who is now in love with YOU will realize this for what it is, and lovingly help you back to the marriage.<P>You will make it. Promise!

Oh, thanks, K, for telling me this. I hope you are right. I know you understand what I am saying about this. The anger and resentment I feel is different from the initial angry feelings, because I was so desperate to save the marriage then.<P>Now my attitude is almost cavalier...like, now you can go if you want to. <BR>As a result, my husband is 'anxious' to please me, care for me, fuss over me and acts a little insecure like I did. <BR>While I once thought this would be a good thing to see, it isn't because I have changed. <BR>I look at him and our marriage so differently now and I am certainly less in love with him...I just don't feel it deep in my bones, deep in my soul anymore...because I am so deeply disappointed. I gave him the best of me, my heart, my soul, my all, without reservation, for all those years. <P>I met ALL his needs all the time and he still betrayed me. The ONLY thing that keeps me trying, keeps me loving and connected is that he is truly mentally ill...I cling to that as an excuse for what happened. I cling to it.<P>I also thought I would love being Plan A'd by him. While it is pleasant and it is nice, it just reminds me of what he was like for all those years before he did what he did. And it leaves me thinking, "My God, this is exactly what he was like for nearly two decades before this happened when we were so close and so involved and so in love, yet he was capable of doing this to me and to us. What is to prevent this from happeneing again?" <P>It snuck up on me, K, because I never ever thought this could ever happen to us. He took so much pride in our fidelity and was so completely grateful for our exclusivity. Then at the first sign of trouble he didn't fight for me, didn't make the effort to fix whatever was wrong and immediately set out to find a replacement. <BR>So now I am afraid of going against any of his desires for fear I will be dismissed like a casual date instead of a devoted loving wife of two decades. I gave him everything, I raised his kids for him, sold my house for him, ran two businesses for him and this is how he repays me. <BR>I am experiencing a lot of grief, jealousy and sadness today that will probably follow through the holidays. I just noticed that sheets of tears are rolling down my face. Just when I think I am all better and revcovering well, suddenly the tears appear.<P>Thanks for reaching out and listening. I need to find a way to release this bitterness and resentment and welcome him back into my heart...do I dare?<P>Catnip =^^=

Catnip:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>and welcome him back into my heart...do I dare?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>It seems as though he's doing the right things. There's always the chance that this will happen again, but life is too short not to try. The two of you need to work together to make this happen---it can, if you both can listen and respond to each other in appropriate, loving ways.<P>I had lots of trouble around the two year mark too. It's funny, because as I went back to count, I just realized that I passed the third anniversary of "D-day" without noticing it. It does get better, and I think the two of you are making real, significant progress. Just remember that you never "let up" on trying to improve your marriage. Building the love for each other can be the most wonderful, fulfilling thing you ever do.<P>

Oh Catnip! I am so sorry for more turmoil, even if it is just your own heart questioning what is going on. I guess I fear that I will do all this & then look back two years from now & say "why did I stay"? But I am glad you opened up with this. It must be very hard to do. Sometimes we get so used to being strong that we just don't know what to do when those questions inside us come up. Thank goodness we have each other to sound these things out. <P>I will keep you in my heart. God knows if anyone deserves happiness it is you. <P>Carolyn

Catnip,<P>I would think that if your attorney was pursuing a personal injury avenue, he might take your case on contingiency!?<P>I really hope I'm in your shoes one day, where my wife is actively plan A'ing me.<BR> <BR>It seems that if you realy want to hold on to someone, all you really have to do is LET GO!<P>Why is that?<P>God bless you,<P>------------------<BR><P>Lynton

Catnip, You just described where I seem to be at perfectly. I have been feeling the same way. God I hope K is right. I want you to know I admire you for taking a stand and doing what you are doing . It gives me great satisfaction to know at least one of these ow are not getting away with this.Take care I hope your feeling better today. with love, flowerseed

Dear Catnip,<P>It is almost impossible to get out of such heartbreaking sorrow. All the hopes, exclusivity and oneness vanished into thin air the moment the WS had an affair. On our own, it would be totally impossible. But with the support of others and the case histories of how couples who have beaten the odds to make it, we have much better chances at rebuilding or coping.<P>I know where you are at. I know I face the struggle to overcome my principles, identity, value, dignity, and common sense every day just so that I stay in the marriage for my baby's sake. My family worry all the time and words of wisdom from them help me stay the course. I really feel like giving up. My WS feels like giving up on life - he wanted a pure life, not one humiliated with having shared a bed with the witch. <P>I have been advised that no one is perfect, people will make mistakes, and he is back. I am so tempted to walk out of the marriage many times but I think that if I can win this battle against my own very strong will and wait a while longer to see how really repentant WS is, I may be rewarded.<P>Trust is the most fragile and it will take time. Love is the most enduring and I think you can love (or like) other aspects of him while disliking some things about your H. I don't love my WS and he knows it because that is the price he has to pay. For us, the baby is the common ground. What is your common ground? When you cooperate on that, things may slowly develop in other areas. At least he is in Plan A.<P>When you have given so much in a relationship and shared so much, it is only natural to feel resentment and anger. One good thing is that, in heaven, there are no marriages and no H and W relationship. So I guess make the best of that blundering human relationship on earth. Give your best because life on earth is but a wink compared to eternity; suffer us a little here gladly so that we will be redeemed in heaven.<P>Love<BR>weep<P>HOW ARE YOU ANNIE? Take care.

Thank you all for your responses. I reread my post about how I cling to the idea of my husband's mental illness to justify his behavior and it made me feel ashamed. Ashamed that I would prefer that mental torture onto him than to endure an afair through a mid-life crisis or for any other reason. I wonder if anyone understands what I am saying.<P>Lynton...it is contingent after the initial retainer of $1500...I was having a tough time scaring up any extra $. The attorney is willing to take this case on principle and to set a precedent...unbelievable in this day. For this, I am so lucky.<P>Weep...I hope you are wrong about there are no marriages in heaven because, on most days, I want to spend 'eternity' with my husband...<P>Taking Care & Flowerseed...What a difference a day makes...twenty-four little hours. The crazy mindset came from dwelling on the calendar and reliving and wallowing in the past. I cried a lot yesterday, felt bad, posted e-mails to Popeye (my very good friend), had another MB buddy from my neighborhood (Vincent) stop by for coffee and conversation and then my husband came home from work about 10 PM and we talked and laughed and cuddled up...today, it is beautiful here. The sun is out and we are going to get the leaves up off the lawn and put away the patio furniture. I made squash soup and we'll put a fire in the fireplace tonight and watch a movie....ahhhh, it don't get much better than this. Bliss.<P>Thank you, TC & Flowerseed, Lynton, K, Weep and anniem for reaching out to me when I was feeling so poopy. Like I said, these bad feelings are less crushing than before and episodes are fewer and farther between. I am getting better and so will you. Really, thanks you wonderful people.<P>Catnip =^^=

Catnip,<P>I read your post and totally understand how you feel. Especially the part about not feeling the same way about your husband anymore. I still love my H, but I'm not so sure I'm in love with him anylonger. It breaks my heart to admit this. I've told him that. He doesn't want to give up. He says he'll do anything and everything to make things right between us again. I know he means it. He's been a good H thus far...since the A. I initially found out about the A 4 yrs ago, however, we just found out about the OC in August, so it's like reliving this nightmare again. The past 4 years have been very emotional. It's taken all this time to learn to try to trust him again. I thought I was almost there until OW decided that after 4 years she now wants cs and paternity acknowledged. It's so hard. I, too, look at my H and still think to myself..."why couldn't you have just weathered the storm we were having a little longer? why were you so damn weak? Were you looking for someone new just in case things didn't work out between us?" Hell, I was weathering the same storm and I never once looked for shelter in the another man's bed. Even with all the things we were going through back then, I was still in love with my H. I can't honestly say that now. I know I love him, but something's changed. It's different. I don't feel inclined to put him first or his needs before mine anymore. Maybe I never should have, but I did. My children and my husband...then it was me...always last. That has changed. It's a slow process, but I come first before him (my needs) and I don't feel guilty about it. Some days I look at my H and feel very happy and in love. But most days, I look at him and still see him as a liar and a betrayer. I hope one day I'll be able to look at him again and just see my H...no label..not title. I know it can happen again but it takes time. Realizing this, I will be patient. I know without a doubt that our marriage could never survive another betrayal like this...NEVER. So, I'm going to continue to try and put our lives back together..one day at a time, literally. I understand in my heart how you feel. You're in my thoughts. <P>Sending out love and good thoughts to all of you others as well. <P>Comfort<P>------------------<BR>Remember the sunshine when the storm seems unending...

Dear Catnip,<P>Pre-A, we were at a bible study session and the pastors said that there are no marriages in heaven. There were discourses on what will happen if a man or woman had two spouses in their lifetime legitimately, ie, widowhood and remarriage, or divorce and remarriage.<P>My H and I were very petrified because we wanted to be together for eternity. Now I am glad, post-A, that heaven is not like earth.<P>If you want, double-check. I will triple-check this, too.<P>God bless<BR>weep

Comfort:<P>At the time, I was reeling from the discovery of the OC on the heels of the affair. In retrospect, I see now that this is far more preferrable than learning of the OC some years from now. It must feel like you have been doubly betrayed. I understand how difficult it must be to have done so much recovery to have this revelation dropped on you so many years.<P>Your husband must have been scared out of his mind...and just think of the agony he put himself through for nearly a half a decade keeping a secret like this. One wonders if he realizes how much better he would have felt, how much quicker your recovery would have been and how much closer you two would have been by now if he only would have trusted you and the marriage enough to tell you the truth back then. It must have been like living with nitroglycerin. <P>Why is it that when I look at pictures of my pre-affair husband it squeezes my heart? I look at the photo of how happy he was for all those years and think, "My God, this was taken when he was just mine and mine alone. This was before he knocked up that whore and saddled us with this horror. How could the man in this photo do all the things he did?" I don't like looking at photos of him pre-affair...it just breaks my heart. <P>Then I think, "Oh yeah, he started drinking the year before he met her and started hating me and got so screwed up...he's bipolar." <BR>Then my husband will look at me and choke back tears and his pain and tell me how deeply he regrets what he has done, that how he wishes this never would have happened, how he took such pride in his ethics, integrity, honoring his vows, cherished me and our exclusivity. He then tells me if my pain is so horrible and so debilatating for me, just think how awful it must be for him to know that he did it, he caused it and that no one looks at him with the respect he once commanded...that everyone thinks he is crazy and unbalanced and no on trusts him.<P>He said "How would you like to be me and know how deeply I hurt the one person in my life that IS my life...that all these problems are dragging you down and it's my fault."<P>His sincere remorse is the healing balm, Comfort. It is times like this when he reaches out to me and acknowledges what he did that makes me feel some of what was lost.<P>This weekend we have been so intensely close and connected, just like before...lot's of laughing, communicating, lots of private jokes and hugs, kisses, sex, just hanging out together, kisses in the basement while doing laundry, in the garage he cops a feel and it is so like we always were. I love it. This is what I missed when he was gone. This is what he never had with the OW. And I would never have this with anyone else. We all hang on for different reasons.<P>The little pleasures keep us together as well as battling the demons together. I don't know if he would do all this for me if the tables were turned, however, I would like to think so. He SAYS he would, but I know he isn't strong enough, well enough or mature enough to do for me what I have done for him. I could be wrong...<P>I don't know what kind of rapport you have with your husband, Comfort. I hope you two take time to have some fun together. I know laughter and down time is extremely healing and makes couples feel more connected when they have private, special jokes.<P>I'll pray for you and your husband and for your recovery. Perhaps you and I will wake up some morning and the feelings we are missing will have returned. God bless.<P>Catnip =^^=

Weep,<P>I guess it is how we all interpret the Scriptures and what faith we were raised in. <P>Everyone has their own POV on how it's gonna be in the hereafter. <P>I see the problem of who belongs with whom with multiple marriages! If that is the case, I should worry. This is my third marriage and my longest marriage (20 years). <BR>My first marriage lasted nine months when I was 18, my second lasted five years to a serial cheater who thought I was beautiful and admitted that is why he married me but preferred to go out with his friends and see other women on the side...lots and lots of other women. We were never ever simpatico. He was always distant and withdrawn and just liked to look at me. <BR>But THIS husband of twenty years is truly the love of my life...my once in a lifetime who I was so grateful for, so much in love, who loved me for me and enjoyed my company. He loved me because he thinks I have a cool personality, he thinks I am funny and smart and likes that I have lots of outside interests. He is proud of me and likes to introduce me to collegues and in business. He says I am so charming that I make him look good. He likes the compliments he gets about me validating his good taste. He likes that I am curmudgeon-y and dry, he likes my enthusiasm in the bedroom and how I make him feel like he is the most incredible lover in the world. He likes that I am not *****y by nature and that I never attack, but counterattack when provoked. <BR>So this husband appreciates me for me and all the many facets as I do him. He is the one person I would like to spend eternity with because he makes everything fun and exciting. Because he stirs my soul. Because he is so much more than anyone I've ever known.<P>If we were to get a choice on judgment day, and I do hope we do, I know who I will choose and I hope he will choose me, too. I'd hate to think heaven is some boring cloud where we sit and pluck harps forever...bored out of our minds. <BR>I would like to think heaven is similar to earth only without sin and crime, sickness and death, where everyone works and plays and worships and goes on as they do today without Satan's influence. <BR>God made such a beautiful earth, I can't see Him completely destroying it, only cleansing it...the tares and wheat thing.<P>Who put a nickel in me? Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.<P>Catnip =^^=

Catnip,<P> I understand the difficuly in coming up with 1500 bucks. Sometimes I can't come up with 15 bucks.<BR> Re-reading your post reminded me of some conversations I've had with my wife. Regarding emotions and feelings; they are just that, nothing more, nothing less. They are not a compass for choosing your lifes' direction, they are not permanent, dependable, or even consistant. Feelings and emotions are the spice,(sometimes the tobasco) of life. They can change instantly, they can lead you to great joy, and to great misery. Emotions are not grounded in reason and logic. That is what breaks my heart about watching my wife try to make a life altering decision based on her emotions. It's impossible, because the best decision today may be the worst tomorrow.<BR> Feel the way you feel, you are working through a devestating experience, you are exactly where you should be. But don't despair, it' not permanent. ONLY YOUR COMMITMENT IS PERMANENT. That is what makes a marriage work. That is why you are still with your husband. The feelings will return, I promise. I've been through the same thing with my wife. Over the past year my emotions have run the gamut, from euphoria to hommicide, but my commitment has never changed. <P> I'm not the smartest guy that ever lived, but I suspect that one day, maybe in the near future, you will look at your husband, and see him for what he is; human, flawed, remorseful, and trying desperately not to lose the best thing that ever happened to him*********** YOU!!!<BR> <P> God bless you,<P><BR><P>------------------<BR><P>Gregg

Catnip, What kind of law suit are you persuing? I sought an attourneys advise this summer on "alienation of affection" and here in NY the law is no longer on the books. I guess there's so much adultry in the world that all of us BS's would tie up the court systems forever.<BR>D/2000

Dear Catnip,<P>I have not written in a long time but I have been lurking -- I suffered some severe setbacks after the invasion of the OWs and I have not felt able to contribute much to the posts that I have been reading. But, your recent replies to anniem called to me.<P>Today I was cleaning out some old boxes in the garage and I found a letter that my H had written to the OW (before he ended the A). She had obviously written to him because she was angry that he had been late picking her up to go out for the evening and his letter was a reply to her. <P>My H was trying to explain why he was late and was telling her that he would take her to "their place" for dinner. He was also planning their vacation in San Diego and Reno and telling her that any time spent with her was "good time".<P>He even said that he wanted to make over her bedroom, which to him meant out with the "old" and "in with the new". He wanted to know from her what size "our" bedroom set should be. Then I read it -- the words that broke my heart all over again into a million pieces. My H wrote to the OW:<P>"If we had a comfortable, secure, new found relationship, would you feel ok with me spending most (almost all) of my time with you? I would like to live with someone, wake up with some one, fall asleep with someone. I have plans for my own place but I wasn't ready to push you into a relationship that you were not ready for."<P>I felt that this could not be the man that I married, that I took care of body and soul for twenty years. Every night he falls asleep with me in his arms and yet he spoke to this OW as if I did not even exist.<P>For the rest of the day I would look at him from time to time and I was thinking pretty much what the rest of you have been saying in this thread. I love my H but we lost something so special with the A. And, I know that things can never be the same. I feel cheated and angry and sad, as if part of me died. It is exactly like a death because it happened -- I didn't get a vote, I didn't get a choice, and I cannot change it.<P>And I don't know how to cope with it some days. Some days I don't know if I can go on with any of the pretending that everything is fine and that life is back to normal.<P>We all know that these feelings come in waves but there also seem to be triggers everywhere that pop up and pull me off my road to recovery and into the depths of despair once again. Sometimes dealing with this emotional rollercoaster is just as bad as dealing with the A.<P>So, what is the alternative? Give up and let go of the man that I committed my life to? Continue to patch things up as best I can and keep going until the next breakdown happens? The choices for us - the BSs - they all seem so bleak.<P>These days what I want more than anything is for young people who are starry-eyed and in love to know what they are getting into before they marry. I wish there was a way to explain to young married couples that the complete destruction of their relationships and families will not be worth the cheap thrill of sex with a stranger. I wish I could explain to those who still have a chance for happiness what my H's sex with a stranger cost me and my family.<P>I am now another person -- not one that I particularly like -- but one that I was forced to become by the man who I thought loved me more than life and a woman that I didn't even know. <P>None of it is fair...<P>- Heavenly

Heavenly:<P>Thank you for coming out of retirement long enough to post the most poignant and heartbreaking post I have read on this forum. You so eloquently described my heart, and my heartbreak.<P>While in the midst of our two year anniversary of the affair, I find myself reliving the events and questioning the motives for his return home. I imagine them together and wonder what it was like and how it was. <P>I remember her words telling me of his reaction to 'the news' of her pregnancy. She said "He was overjoyed...he was absolutely overjoyed. He told me that his brother Dan could be the godfather and how all the older guys at the club were divorcing their wives and marrying younger women and having new families again."<P>I told my husband what she said and he admitted saying it. He said he was so stunned he didn't know what to say and he was afraid she would call and tell me if he didn't act happy about it. He told me that it all seemed to him to be a nightmare and nothing made sense, nothing seemed real.<P>So, Heavenly, when you look at your husband, and I look at mine and assess the destruction and try to ignore the triggers that pop up constantly, we are the ones who are haunted and tortured by their actions while they are so happy to be home and feel so blessed and so lucky that we stood by them...but at what cost to us?<P>Please don't go away again.<P>Catnip =^^=<p>[This message has been edited by catnip (edited November 05, 2000).]

Discovery 2000,<P>I am not filing an Alienation of Affection suit as they are off the books in most states for probably the very reason you cited. In fact, the OW lives on Long Island but I am suing her in Texas because that's where one of the weekends occurred.<P>The attorney in Texas is suing her for Personal Injury...mine.<P>Catnip =^^=

Lynton:<P>Thank you, Gregg, for your insightful and sensitive post. I hope you are right and that one day I will again feel what I once did.<P>You're right about another thing, too....emotions are just that and no life altering decisions should ever be made based on mercurial emotions that rise and fall whenever there is an anniversary of a soul slashing event, a full moon or chaos and confusion.<P>I truly appreciate your kindness in reaching out to me when I've been feeling so blue and giving me sound advice to consider before I make any changes while in this mindset.<P>Thanks, Gregg.<P>Catnip =^^=