hi all. hope everyone is doing okay. haven't posted in awhile. have been having computer problems. what a pain. <P>i am having problems again with guilt. i feel like how can i think i can be forgiven for the choice we have made, when it will be an ongoing choice. we will never have contact with the OC. my H will never be in her life as the daddy. i want peace. when i think i had it, it was gone. i feel like we are bad people for the decision we have made. that all the bad things that happen to us are now because we are not good people. what can i do? i want to be the happy person at peace with herself i used to be. <P>can god forgive us for something we are choosing to do forever? i feel like if you commit adultery, repent sincerely and are forgiven, i totally understand that. if you don't do it again, you did what you were supposed to. but if our decision is a sin, which i am not sure if it is, then how can i ask for forgiveness????<P>any advice out there for me?? i would sincerely appreciate it.<P>thanks.<P>happy_girl

happygirl,<BR>I gave your post some thought, and I think the peace of God you are asking for can only come from The Source Himself, given to you in prayer and silent meditation. I do not know your religion or background, but I honestly do not believe there is only one answer to your question of what is "right" re: the OC! (Either contact or no-contact can be successfully argued, morally.) In my experience, the answer to such soul-questions and peace-seeking are found INSIDE, not out. What does God want for YOU, speak to your heart and soul?<P>May you again feel peace with your decisions; no matter what that decision is, we'll be here!<BR>Blessings,<BR>Jenny <BR>

<BR> Happy-girl,<P> I was raised Catholic, and I know that God gave His only son as a sacrifice for the sins of man.<BR> There is nothing we can do that cannot be forgiven, if we ask for forgivness.<BR> There may be a time when the OC will seek you and your husband, and by that time will be a young adult. When that happens, OC wil be mature enough to talk, listen, and understand the circumstances surrounding his/her birth.<BR> There is no sin in doing whatever it takes to make your marriage strong and secure. That is what God wants.<P> God bless you,<P>------------------<BR><P>Gregg

There is only guilt when you think you are doing something wrong. I do not think your choice is wrong. There are folks who think that every bio "parent" should stay in a childs life. I do not. Children deserve people who will be there 7 days a week, 24 hours a day. The OW should go out & create a family for this child. She knew that your H could not be that parent, yet she pursued the course you are all now on. <P>I am sure it is very difficult to know that a child is out there that might benefit from you being there. But they could also be harmed by sporadic contact. Try to think of your sacrific of removing yourself from the OC life as an opportunity for that child to bond with another father who can be there full time for her. <P>You deserve no guilt. Just like a person who gives a child up for adoption, you are acting in a manner that best benefits the child, given the limited resources you have. If this OW was really acting on the childs behalf she would offer to let you have full custody of child. You & your H could raise the child. But she isn't going to do that is she? Please do not have guilt over actions that someone else has forced. <P>Take pride that you have the courage to stand up to a society that thinks all this crazy "stay in the childs life" stuff is a good thing. You are one of the few people who are actually putting aside your own needs & concerns over what people will think of you to make a better life for that child. It is a courageous act to do what you are doing. I pray you will be blessed in life for that action.<P>Take care... Carolyn

Happy Girl,<P>Speaking from a slightly different point of view, this is similar to having put a child up for adoption. Not for you, but for your husband. My H and I have gone through that together(such a sordid past we have ) On Dec 2, it will be our first daughter's 13th birthday. Like Takingcare said, all children need parents who can be there 24/7. Yes, it is hard, and we still wonder what would have happened if we had kept the child. But, having sporadic contact would have only harmed her emotionally. Like Lynton said, maybe oc will initiate contact when oc is a young adult, and can understand the decision you and your H made. Don't feel guilty that you have both decided not to be "involved" in oc's life. I feel that is the best policy for your marriage to continue to grow, and that doesn't include the OW or OC. I know that everything would go to H*** if OM were still involved in our lives, and my H would have a hard time with him coming around. I know my H wouldn't trust any of the things that I would say, and would question everything that I do. Luckily, I don't want to have anything else to do with OM, and hope to never hear from him again. I guess the hardest part of that will be when this child is old enough to understand that "Daddy" isn't her bio-daddy. The main thing for you and your H is to have your marriage grow stronger. Don't let the guilt get you down, cause you are doing the right thing.<P>Tigger<BR>

happy_girl,<P>I read your post twice and read all the responses. I agree with them. You have NOTHING to feel guilty about. Absolutely nothing. I had a fleeting...and I DO mean fleeting, moment when I actually wondered what it would be like to have my h and in turn, myself, be a part of OC life. I actually shuddered when I thought about it. I know in my heart that it would never work for me. I'm so thankful that my H never wanted anything to do with OC. OW and OC live in another city so I'm glad we don't ever see them. My marriage would never last if H chose to be a part of OC life. I refuse to feel guilt over a situation that I had absolutely nothing to do with. I'm not taking responsibility in anyway for that OC. I certainly wasn't privy to the lies and sneaking around that my H and OW did...I certainly wasn't there when the OC was conceived and they certainly didn't ask my permission. No! Guilt is not a part of my vocabulary when it comes to this situation. I've prayed about forgiving my H and helping my marriage to be viable and loving again. I have not asked God to forgive me for not accepting this OC with open arms because I never felt in my heart and soul that He expected me to. I KNOW that HE understands. I have said a prayer to God that the OC has a long and happy life and I wish no harm to OC. But that's as far as it goes...and I sleep very well at night. My concious is clear. The funny thing about it, my H's concious seems to be clear also. He's just that way. It doesn't seem to bother him one bit. I know it sounds cold but it's true. He's accepted the fact that the child support is another bill to be paid and that he was a sperm donor. Well, if H doesn't seem bothered by it, I'm certainly not going to lose any sleep. I've tuned more into myself these days and focusing on making me a better person. Not so much on H needs anymore. It works for me. You follow what's in your heart. Whatever you decide, we're still here for you...always!<P>Comfort<P>------------------<BR>Remember the sunshine when the storm seems unending...

Happy Girl:<P>I share the sentiments of Taking Care and Comfort completely.<P>I also understand your feelings of guilt, because of who you are and your basic kindness and goodness conflicting with your feelings of sadness and betrayal and wanting to put this ugly chapter in your lives behind you.<BR> <BR>In order for your marriage to heal and to prevail, you must do what you feel is right for you and your husband. <P>This "misplaced guilt" must be eliminated as you have absolutely no reason to feel guilty. You have done nothing wrong and you have no responsibility to anyone but your husband and your marriage.<P>The OW made these decisions to have sex with a married man, allowed herself to become pregnant, made the choice to have and to keep the child without anyone else's input and selfishly decided to subject the child to a life without a father in it's life. These sins and this guilt is not yours; it is hers.<P>While it is unfortunate the OW made all these decisions, these are her choices and you carry no responsibility for her decisions.<BR> <BR>You and your husband's only responsibility is to each other and to your marriage. Perhaps someday there will come a time when you are farther along in the healing process and you are secure in your marriage where you may be able to include the OC in your life. If not, that's OK, too. <BR>I can't and won't and feel no guilt at all, although I do admit to a little sadness that there is a child out there who will never know her father, that should belong to me, to us...but then I remember that the OW made this choice when she could have given this child to a loving two-parent couple to give it the advantages of a stable home. <BR>Then I think that this child should not even be here, at least with my husband as the bio dad. Then I carry it a step further that the OW never should have had sex with my husband and allowed herself to get pregnant. <BR>It all goes back to the same issue...the beginning and how this all played out, the torture and devastation I have gone through, the horrendous pain and loss I feel and know that having the OC in our lives would be a constant open wound for me.<P>Someday the OC may come to your husband as an adopted child seeks out it's birth parent. I have been in this position myself and my reunion with my bio son was a wonderful experience. I was lucky he had such a wonderful life. I was lucky our reunion went so well and his questions were answered to his satisfaction.<P>He had questions and was curious as is the case with all adopted children. You and your husband can treat it like an adoption and years and years from now you can be there to welcome the child into your lives. By then the trauma and pain of all of this will be far, far less. I know this is true from first hand experience.<P>Let go of the guilt, pray and meditate. I am so glad you used this forum for what it was intended; to get reinforcement and feedback from others going through this struggle within. <P>You will find that your feelings about this will vascillate and tomorrow you may once again be adament about no contact and feel no guilt only to have it rear its ugly head again later at a weak moment or when someone who has no clue what it is like to go through this will puff up and sanctimoniously say you're selfish or other such rubbish. The only people here that were selfish was your spouse and the OW. You and the OC are the only victims here because neither of you had a choice. <BR>In a strange way this is a special weird little bond I have with the OC I often think about in my particular case. I have real compassion for OC and a special love for her that I would never admit to anyone. I often feel that she is really mine because I was the only one entitled to have her, but any contact would kill me and I know I just can't go there.<P>Catnip =^^=

Hi Happy girl,<BR>I read your post and I am having the exact same feelings as your are about dealing with guilt and the child. I just registered today and posted my story under "belated pain". I found this forum only a few days ago so I'm not familiar with your whole story. I'm still trying to figure out how to use the forum. Please write me back. I hope we can help each other through this. I've tried everything so far - counseling, medication, etc.... - but nothing has been able to get this out of my head. I wish I could get shock therapy and have this info erased from my brain - just kidding! <P>Eraser12

as always i am overwhelmed by everyones heartfelt response. i was feeling so down and confused about whether or not i could ever truly expect forgiveness. i know god will forgive us when we repent with a sincere heart, but i was just lost i guess<P>jenny- i know you are right. i need to pray to god for peace. it may take a long time, but i hope someday by the grace of god i will fully be at peace with this decision. i once thought i was, but i guess i was wrong. thanks.<P>gregg- i actually converted to catholicism just this past easter, after attending mass for about 5 years. a priest once told me that we only had a financial obligation, not an emotional one, but who knows if it was just his opinion. i know catnip was told the same, and i doubt it was the same priest given she is on the other side of the country. thanks for reinforcing my belief that our marriage is first. i know it could not survive a relationship with the OC/OW. thanks.<P>carolyn- your words hit me. thanks is all i can say, and i pray that you can get thru all this too.<P>tigger- i hope that if this little girl does someday look for my husband that she can understand, that the OW doesn't fill her head with who knows what. we will have to deal with that one day, i am sure of it... but we have many bridges left to cross before that one, so i hope by then we will be more mature and able to handle it. i think you and your husband did the right thing. giving a child up for adoption must be so hard, but it takes true love for the child and wanting what is best. i know your daughter will one day thank you for it. thanks for your words.<P>comfort- your words are always just that, a comfort. thanks once more for helping me. my husbands concious also seems clear. he says he is sad for the girl, but he did not want a child, she was not conceived out of love and he feels no attachment. why is it so hard for me??? i didn't do anything wrong. go figure... i am going to have to work on this, and one day will find my peace, with god's help. take care of yourself!<P>catnip- you always have a way with words. wish i could put things so eloquently. thanks for your constant support. i don't know what i would do without you all. i go thru these stages, i am great and then wham, something just knocks me down. luckily my H is one of my rocks. i love him dearly and he loves me too. we are actually doing great. it is me that gets all weirded out at times. so i come here. i always lurk, but don't always have time to post. just try to absorb the advice everyone gives eachother. this place is great. thanks again. i know i will have to reread this thread. actually print it out so i can re read it when i feel down.<P>eraser- i am sure you have got some great advice here on this thread. i hope that you will too find peace in whatever decision you guys make. welcome.<P>may god bless all of you here on this forum. i am so grateful to be blessed with such wonderful people to talk to and learn from. you are in my prayers.<P>love, <P>happy_girl<P>

Dear happy_girl<P>I agree that you have misplaced guilt. A member once posted the story of Hagar. I went to a seminar a couple of days ago and the same issue came up, and I will relate them here.<P>Children concieved in a marriage is the legitimate heir to God's kingdom and have dominion over the devil. Children conceived out of wedlock are illegitimate and the devil has every legal status to things that joined together and not made under God's umbrella. So the devil would want more children born out of wedlock and through fornication and adultery than through the legal marriage. Hence, you have all sorts of sexual traps and enticement in this world to tell people that it is fine to not be married, etc..<P>In Genesis, Hagar is the maidservant who conceived Ismael after Sarah, her mistress, asked her to sleep with Abraham, the master, so that Abraham can have children because Sarah has been barren. ALthough Sarah was the one who was wrong in getting her husband to sleep with the maid, God eventually allowed Hagar to be driven away so that Sarah and Abraham can be together. He also blessed Sarah with Issac. God also sent an angel to Hagar when she was driven out and said that her son will have many descendants and asked Hagar to name him Ishmael and said that the son will be a wild donkey of a man; his hand will be against everyone, and everyone's hand against him, and he will live in hostility toward all his brothers. If you know the biblical and current history and geography, you will know which nations are spawned by Ishmael because they are always warring despite being wealthy.<P>Happy_girl,<BR>In your case, you did not ask your H to go and bear a child with some OW but he was unfaithful and committed that sin and the child was born out of wedlock through no fault of yours. It will be best if you both take your marriage as sacred and heal it till it is throbbing with health and love and life.<P>A marriage would take a miracle just to be happy without adultery, and what more an OC? You owe yourself the 'breastbeating to God' and crying and sobbing out to Him to heal you, make your WHOLE again, rebuild your marriage, cleanse you of your anger, uncertainties, and ask "WHY ME. LORD, help me God".<P>God loves you<BR>take care<BR>weep

Thank you, Happy_Girl. This is also been questioning to me. I am new to this also.<P>I have always been and stil am a very loving and caring person. I was also having these guilt feelings. I did feel sorry for the OC. <P>I will not take responsibility for this or feel guilt anymore. We don't even know for sure that the OC is his, because she will not test for paternity. <P>My partner has told me since the beginning he told her not to have the child. He did not want a child. He did not want the relationship. Even though the OW knew of me, and our relationship, she made the decision to have this child. I truly believe she used the OC as a trap. Or leverage to keep him in her live. WRONG!!<P>Sometimes I do feel sad for the OC, because of her mother decision not to have a paternity test, and to have several sexual partners, she will never learn if she wanted to who is her bio-parent. She probably too embarrass because she would have to test several times.<P>I do keep remembering this was the OW decision. She knew all the circumstances from my partner on how the OC would not be recieved. (she probably just pick on one of the other guys, when my wouldn't just give in on her word that it was his) If the test was taking and show it was his child, the payment would be sent as a monthly bill, with no contact or any type of relationship period, and she know this. So the guilt is on the OW. Well aware of all issue, she decided to have OC anyways, so know it is her responsiblilty.<P>Keep you head up, keep your marriage first and do what is necessary to make peace in your marriage and with your family. You cannot be responsible for OW and OC, its the OW responsiblility. Try not to think about OC.<P>Keep praying, because prayer heal all.<BR>Pray everday for peace for yourself and your marriage then that peace will touch everyone around you and make your relationship some much stronger.<P>I add you and all to my prayers. Praying together is making us so much in tune with each other, open honest. Like they said it's the BEST policy.

weep, you always are right on when it comes to god and the bible. thanks for your knowledge and of course caring enough to share it. i need to study up on my bible, and i need to pray, A LOT. i know that one day god will give me peace. he may have already and i have not been ready for it. maybe it is there, and i just need to open my heart to it. who knows. thanks for your comforting words.<P>vazquezek, welcome to our forum. there are lots of great people here. thanks for taking the time to share your own experience with me. all this helps me put things in perspective. <P>there are FINALLY some people on my side of the country!! vazquezek and i think eraser?? you are both in california? i am in arizona!<BR>do you speak spanish vazquez? if so, bienvenidos a nuestro foro!!<P>happy_girl