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I just had an hour and a half discussion with my WS W and I am very confused. She makes it sound like she hasn't loved me in 7 yrs. (been married 8 yrs.), doesn't love OM, in habit of lying to me for very long time, and on and on. I am still feeling the effects of the A and pregnancy, and she tells me that she hasn't been the person I thought she was since soon after we were married. She said she knew what I expected her to be and so she was that person, without me asking her to do it. She says that she wrote me off about 5 years ago and doesn't care to try and rekindle any type of flame, in fact she says there isn't even a glowing ember. I tried not to LB, but I did let a few well deserved LB's fly. How do you know if there are more issues than just our marriage? I think that I am on target when the talking begins, and then I end up not even knowing which direction the target is. I want my marriage to work, but she doesn't see the point in even trying. I encouraged her to go see a shrink, just to see if it would help, but she doesn't want to. She is willing to give up the kids, house and all stuff, without making a stupid appointment with a psychiatrist. What is wrong with this woman? I am willing to keep trying to make it work, but it is so difficult to stay focused when your W is laughing in your face.<BR>Floored<p>[This message has been edited by floored (edited December 04, 2000).]
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oh my goodness floored, you are experiencing a similar situation to myself...I guess we cannot make our WS feel what we want them to feel and do what we know they should do, even if we know it is for the best. I am so sorry for your pain..I have no advice to give you, because I too am experiencing a similar situation. H gave up children to be with OW and live with her, now on occasion, he expresses to his mom, my mil that he is unhappy and that he feels he has nowhere to turn..I have let him know that I am here for him if he wants to talk and it doesnt have to be as H and W, it can be as friends, but ow makes threats that he will never see oc again and he will have no place to live if he so much as even looks at me the wrong way..maybe as a h should look at his w? she is afraid..so she controlls him by fear, and he allows this, even at the cost of not seeing his children! I wish you luck and pray for you and your w. <BR>aloneandsad (missy)
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Aloneandsad,<BR>It is so heart wrenching to sit back and see the person you pledged your love to for the rest of your life, just throw everything away. My wife makes me doubt that I ever even really knew who she was because she says she faked our relationship so long, just for the kids. I feel as though my life is just a blur right now and have trouble trying to continue to work on my marriage when she knocks the wind out of me like that. Could it be true that she never loved me? I doubt it, we have two beautiful children. I don't know what to do, I feel like going to the lawyers office today and just ending it, but I know the pain will still be there, so what to do. I'm sorry for your pain too, and I will pray for you also.<BR>Floored
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floored, It seems that people that act this why have no conscience. I have seen it in male and female. They are so self centered that they dont seem to see the pain they inflick. Possibly they were hurt emotionaly at at a very young age and to protect themselves have learned to block out feelings that people with a normal conscience would have . Have you talked to her about her childhood , if anything bad has happened to her when she was growing up? I dont know if it would do any good or not but I know a lot of us carry around baggage from bad things happening to us when we were growing up.Sometimes it helps if you can break that wall that seems to be there. I wish you the best of luck bye for now with love flowerseed
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Flowerseed,<BR>My W did have a bad childhood, emotional abuse, divorce, and later on 2 abortions. I think that she chooses not to work on her past because she knows how much it would hurt. What she doesn't get is that she is choosing not to work on herself or on our marriage. She started counciling last year to try and work on herself, then thought she was ok, then had an affair, got pregnant and so here we are. I just feel like I am fighting a whole host of people instead of just my wife.
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Floored,<P>You're wasting precious time and energy right now trying to make sense out of how your wife feels, and fighting about her current feelings. You should stop this immediately!<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I tried not to LB, but I did let a few well deserved LB's fly.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>There are no such things as deserved lovebusters. If you were disrespectful, judgemental, dishonest, or used anger inappropriately---then you owe your wife an apology. You promised to love and cherish her, for better or worse. No where in your marriage vows does it say "depending on how you treat me". Your primary goal here must be elimination of lovebusters!!! If you need to, by all means avoid situations in which you feel that you will lovebust. That usually includes "heart-to-heart" talks with a wayward spouse who hasn't returned to the marriage.<P>Your wife gave you some valuable insight and information, and you need to act on it:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>and she tells me that she hasn't been the person I thought she was since soon after we were married<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>This is valuable, if you know WHY she felt you misrepresented yourself. If you became selfish, if you didn't spend time with her, if you lovebusted, if you didn't meet her needs---all these things are behaviors you can be working on today.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>She says that she wrote me off about 5 years ago and doesn't care to try and rekindle any type of flame...I want my marriage to work, but she doesn't see the point in even trying...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>The assessment here is that your wife isn't in love with you, and probably hasn't been for some time. And that's due in a large part to your past behaviors. Again, you need to fix these. And she's indicating to you if you really want the marriage to work, you better expect to do ALL the work. She's sitting on the fence. She 'says' she doesn't want to work on it, but until she's actively filing for divorce, she's probably unsure. You need to give her reasons to want the marriage. Lovebusting does not help---no matter how "righteous" it may seem. You can ***** and whine about how insensitive your wife is and how unfair this whole situation is AFTER you're divorced----but if you want to stay married, I'd avoid it at all costs.<P>Floored, my wife suffered from "givers snap", and your wife appears to feel the same...<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>She said she knew what I expected her to be and so she was that person, without me asking her to do it...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>She thinks she's been the perfect wife to you, and she's spent tons of time giving to you and not getting anything in return. What's particularly tough about this attitude is that she's probably not done a whole lot better in giving you what YOU NEED than you did for her. But you're in NO POSITION to argue this now. Your wife doesn't love you---she's in deep withdrawal from the marriage, and she doesn't see many reasons to have hope.<P>If you want the marriage, you need to give her reasons. And you need to stuff your taker in a box and put a big rock on the lid---you will not get your needs substantially met until after your wife gets back to the "in love" state of intimacy with you, and I'm betting that will be at least 6 months of hard work.<P>Floored: I really implore you to give the Harley's a call (888-639-1639) and set up an appointment. You need to have a consistant, coherent plan to deal with this, and a coach who's on YOUR SIDE who can help you forsee these pitfalls and deal constructively with the negative aspects of handling a spouse who's in withdrawal. Don't waste time with the lawyers yet...<P>And the great news is:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>[she] doesn't love OM<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Get working with Steve or Jenn Harley. They will make a difference in your ability to deal with things in a positive manner.
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Thanks K,<BR>It never hurts to get kicked in the pants so that you get back on track. I will apologize and avoid these heart to heart chats. I don't know why I think that I can persuade her to work on the marriage, but when a discussion is presented, I usually screw it up. Thanks for the advice. I have talked with Jenn once, but money is a little tight right now. Do you think it would be advantageous to council by myself or my wife and I both?<BR>Floored
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floored, I think the emotional abuse has to be the hardest to overcome. I have been threw every kind there is and the mental was the worse. Walls can go up real easy to protect ourselves when weve been hurt. They are alot harder to remove. Every time you do something to make your wife feel she has to put that wall back up its going to be harder to reach her. Kinda like the three pigs you start with straw and that comes down so you go with sticks learn to push them feelings deeper than you still get hurt so you go to bricks when you get to that point its very hard to get inside. It is possible but you have to show your wife by your actions and your words. It took me along time to care about my husband again he cheated on me and now there is oc. But I am talking about that before this even came out things were not good. I think I know what your wife means about just playing the role for the kids sake. Me and my husband got to the point where we did not comunicate anymore I didnt feel like I was important to him anymore and Iam sure he felt the same way or he wouldnt have been out trying to find someone to make him feel like he mattered. I didnt go out and cheat on my husband. But I can say I was ready to end it with him and I told him so and I meant it I didnt love him anymore. That was when he decided that me and his family was the most important things in his life . He has totally turned himself around and I can say Iam starting to let them bricks be torn down.It has been 2 years now .It took along time I have just begone to believe in him again. I think all any of us really want out of life is to have someone that wants us and to be needed. I dont know if any of this makes sense to you but I though I would give it a whirl bye for now with love flowerseed
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floored:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I don't know why I think that I can persuade her to work on the marriage, but when a discussion is presented, I usually screw it up.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>You're trying to persuade her because it's a logical thing to do. Unfortunately, logic won't work in this case. And I personally made this mistake about 50 times before I figured it out, so don't lose too much sleep over it.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I have talked with Jenn once, but money is a little tight right now. Do you think it would be advantageous to council by myself or my wife and I both?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>.<P>I think it would be most advantageous for your wife to end the affair, return home, and begin dedicated counseling with you. But I'm guessing that this proposal will get you somemore laughter in the face. If you can handle that "laughter", and you haven't presented that option before, then you should do so. Just expect the laughter, and don't react to it.<P>You talked with Jenn once. Did it help? Do you have a clear picture of your gameplan? I certainly understand the issues of money being tight, but the counseling is a hell of a lot cheaper than a divorce. I used Steve extensively as a coach while I was going through this because:<P>1. I didn't have anyone else I wanted to share this with.<P>2. He always had clear and consistant advice, and he was always spot-on with his advice on what to expect during certain situations, and how best to handle them (not that I always followed his advice---but I was better off when I did ![[Linked Image from marriagebuilders.com]](http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/images/icons/smile.gif) )<P>3. There was no forum at the time.<P>I worry about trying to advise someone through a situation as tough as yours because I'm not trained as a marriage counselor. I know the material pretty well, and I've been through a pretty severe personal test of it. But when you're on this forum, you get lots of "voices" giving you conflicting advice. I'm a firm believer of going to the source, and letting them provide the first-hand guidance on getting me through the rough spots.<P>That's why I recommend that you turn to Jenn when things seem really bad.
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K,<BR>I have asked my wife to come back, but she said she didn't want to come back just for the kids and then 6 mos. later, leave again. If W is telling the truth, there is no more Affair, just him checking on her to see how she and OC are doing. I don't think I can persuade her to not talk to him anymore. What I suspect is that OM is in love with my W and that is why he has chosen to leave his W of less than a year and continue to contact my W. Do you have any suggestions on how to persuade my W to come back and work on the marriage, despite her fears of leaving again and hurting the kids? Do you think all of this is relationship oriented or how much does her past abortions and childhood play into the scenario?
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floored:<P>It really doesn't matter what has happened to make your wife behave like this (past, abortions, childhood trauma): short of getting her a forced lobotomy under duress, you can't do anything about it.<P>All you can do is change YOUR behaviors. And that's why I'd suggest that you work for a while at making your marriage a safe place for your wife to return to, if she wants. It's very gentle persuasion: you need to lead by example, and you can't resort to pressure (it'll have the opposite effect).<P>If you can get her back into a safe environment where she feels loved, she'll be more willing to address her problems. But at this point, you have no leverage at all to try to get her "on board" with the program.
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floored, I dont know if that came out right I didnt mean you should tell your wife you dont love her anymore. What I meant was instead of me going out and finding someone else I choose to tell H I was all done trying. I just felt nothing was ever going to change. I dont know but your wife might possibly feel the same way . This was before I even knew about affair he opened up after I had finally gave up. I hope I didnt make you feel worse bye for now folwerseed
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Floored,<P>I just wanted you to know that I have been following your posts and I am sending my silent support and prayers. Like K said, I feel that you are at a very critical stage in your marriage and, as an amateur, I don't want to offer advice that may hurt the situation.<P>K and flowerseed have been giving you some excellent insight and advice. I just wanted you to know that there are probably many out here like me who are watching and praying for you but don't have the expertise to jump in.<P>Good luck. I hope that you can hang on a while longer and that your wife will see what she is throwing away in such a good H.<P>- Heavenly
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Thank you all for your responses. I didn't exactly expect the reaction I got, but it turned out to be better than I thought. I think I am going to make an appointment with Steve or Jenn for next week to get a good game plan. I was pleased with Jenn's session last time, but in my case I wonder if I should talk to Steve. Any suggestions on that?
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floored:<P>If you were comfortable with Jenn, I'd probably stick with her. She and Steve come from the same point of view, so the advice you'll get will probably be pretty consistant.
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Floored,<BR>I have been reading this all along too. I also pray for all of us here. Through God's help, I hope we can all get on with our lives as he intends for us.<BR>I wish we could all meet in person and, hug and cry, and move on,because I think we deserve better than this. <BR>I don't know ,but in my case I think after holidays I'm preparing to move on.<P>My Husabnd is willing to let go of what he says he wants(myself and our son)to have what he said he doesn't want(relationship w/OC if it's his).<BR>I think life is too short.<BR>I know my limitations. So does our son.<BR>Since he chooses "occasional" visit, and we all know that will change,I've decided to move ahead as PAINFUL as that is bcuz I couldn't deal with that the rest of my days.<BR>I'll be ok.<BR>My priest/psychiatrist says I'm just at the beginning and I'll change my mind a lot of times,"rollercoaster" he said.<P>I tell you his choosing baby over us deadened anything I may have felt. <BR>I haven't dealt w/Affair bcuz "baby" is all I can think of.<P>He calls from work 2-3x's a day.I don't answer. He cries!!! tells me he's sorry! Never says what I need to hear to take step one. Pay and don't see baby if his. It's unbearable what he wants us to accept.<P>So sorry for venting so long.<BR>Peace to your heart and serenity to your mind.<BR> Debi<P>------------------<BR>Imagine....
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