I hadn't heard from WS/W all day, but knew she was going to the doctor today. About 8pm I got a message from her that said she was in the hospital. She had gone for her checkup and the doctor scheduled her for emergency procedure to sew up her cervix to prevent premature labor. We have a little boy that was born at 28 wks, so we both had decided not to have anymore children ourselves due to the 50:50 chance of having another premie. Anyway, I called as soon as I got the message to see how she was doing. She said that she was fine and I asked if her brother was there with her or if she wanted me to come. She said that OM had gone to the checkup with her and was there with her now. I immediately choked up and could not talk. I finally told her that I would talk to her later and we hung up. I was not expecting that at all. I have called friends and family for prayer support, but your prayers would also be appreciated for myself as well as my W. She will be on strict bedrest for the rest of the pregnancy, she's about 20 wks. right now. If it weren't for God's grace, I think that I probably would have lovebusted my marriage out the door. How can I find the strength to keep pulling myself off the floor every time she does something like this to me?

Floored,<P> Hang in there, man! Let me tell you what it was like when my ife delivered Angel.<BR> Throughout my wifes' pregnancy, my wife hinted that OM wanted to be in the delivery room when Angel was born. I told her if he was there, I couldn't, it would be too hard. I couldn't sit in the waiting room while another man was with my wife while she dlivered his child.<BR> D day arrives, I take my wife to the hospital.( The same hospital in which I work (I'm a gas-passer). She asks me if it's OK if she calls OM to tell him she's in labor. I say OK.<BR> We're transfered to a labor room, I'm holding her hand, trying to help her through contractions, and the OM walks in!!! And he stays!!! And my wife doesn't tell him to leave!!!!! He stays in the room as all my wifes' friends and family file in and out! It was unbelievable, I felt like I was in a nightmare!! I wanted to grab the SOB by his throat and throw him out, but I didn't, for my wife.<BR> Thanks to my father in law, he wasn't in the room for the delivery( he detained him in the waitiing room ).<BR> <P> My wife told me that night that she found herself wishing he would leave, that when the time came for delivery, she found she wanted me to be with her. I was so afraid that if OM was with her during delivery, they would bond,and our marriage would be over.<P> This is what I endured for my wife, and I have to believe this is about as gut-wrenching as it gets. But I still love her, and my hope is that she will come to me one day and say it is over with OM, I want to be your wife.<P> God bless you, my friend, <P>------------------<BR><P>Gregg

You will definately be in our prayers!! I don't know what else to say, other than that.<P><BR>Tigger

Dear floored, <P><BR> I just re-read my post, and it reads like I'm trying to play a game of one-up-manship. I was just trying to let you know there are people who have been where you are and survived. You are in my prayers. You can get through this. Your wife is not really sane right now, she is incapable of logical thought.<P> K is the pragmatist here, his advice is golden. I just want you to know there are other folks knee-deep in doo-doo also, and you are not alone. (That kind of sounded like an X-Files promo, didn't it?) <BR> <BR> <P> God bless you,<P>------------------<BR><P>Gregg

Geeze Floored,<BR>Where was a guy like you 26 1/2 yrs ago?<P>I will ask God to bless you with peace .<BR> Debi<P>PS Well thanks for starting my day off crying............ <P>------------------<BR>Imagine....

A prayer for the your wife and for God's will... may whatever happens bring your wife back where she belongs... You're INcredible, floored! Your kids are so lucky!<P>God bless and angels' wings,<BR>Jenny

Dear Floored,<P>I pray that your W will wake up and realize how she is hurting the one that loves her so deeply. I am glad that Lynton posted his story so that you know there are other stories just like yours. Sometimes it is so much support for me to know that all of you are out there going through the same anxieties and doubts that I suffer through.<P>Continue to have faith for the sake of your marriage. What you are going through must be unbearable for you, so I pray that there will not only be light at the end of the tunnel for you soon, but that the light will be the awakening of your W to be able to take up her sacred vows once more.<P>May God bless you.<BR>- Heavenly

Floored:<P>This is quite a blow. I know it has sent you reeling. I am so sorry you have to endure such torment and heartache. <P>At this stage, according to K, you can't expect anything from your wife as long as she has the OM showing up and playing the caretaker. <P>I wonder how OM really feels about all this...I wonder if he would just as soon be a thousand miles away and not part of this situation anymore. According to what I have seen, the OM usually ends up terminating the relationship and eventually the wife goes back to the husband. I wonder if it just has to run it's course. Perhaps this is a waiting game.<P>I have a tough time with situations like yours and Lynton's because I guess I can't imagine any woman would want to be with the OM when you men, the husbands, are so eager to repair and restore your marriages and so willing to take the child as your own. The OM's are temporary 'fixes' and will certainly disappoint some day...soon. <P>I am trying so hard to understand the dynamics involved here. I wish there was something I could offer or something I could say. All I have are my prayers for you.<P>Catnip =^^=

floored, it looks like you got a whole bunch of good advice. i only offer my support and prayers for you and your family. i can't even imagine what you must be feeling. i hope your wife realizes what she has before she it is too late.<P>happy_girl

Thanks all. A new development since last night. My brother inlaw called me and said that he had talked to my W and he had asked her where she was going to live. She had been staying with him, but it is upstairs and she can't go upstairs or do anything to stress her out. Anyway, she said that she guessed she would go home, my home, our home. At first I was excited, but then I started second guessing her intentions. I don't know if I should take care of her, or throw her to the wolves. Wouldn't this make her hit rock bottom, especially being bedridden all day everyday? Knowing that I could keep a better eye on her made me anxious, but demanding that she not talk to OM would probably be a LB. I need some help deciding what to do. After last night I wanted to go straight to Plan B, but I've only been plan A'ing for 3 1/2 months. I guess I should let her come to the point of asking me and then I could tell her I would think about it. Suggestions needed please.<BR>Floored

Floored<P>I dont know what to say!!! You asked for suggestions..I would stick with plan A, even if she sees it as "safe" and "comfortable" to come home, that is a start. If she sees the love you still have for her, even after all she has done; maybe that will bring the turnaround that you are looking for...At least she didnt say that she was going to stay with OM...that would be tragic! I am keeping you and your WS/W in my prayers...for her to be ok, and for your marriage...I am praying for God's will to be done...Take care and God bless you! I am so sorry for your pain!<P>aloneandsad (Missy)

floored:<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>I don't know if I should take care of her, or throw her to the wolves. Wouldn't this make her hit rock bottom, especially being bedridden all day everyday?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>It would likely help her hit rock-bottom. The issue with that is that if YOU and YOUR BEHAVIORS are linked with her hitting rock bottom (in her mind---it doesn't matter what THE TRUTH is, it matters what her perception of the events are), your marriage will be very difficult to recover.<P>So, if you have the stamina, I would recommend that you do Plan A. But you have an advantage here: your wife has moved out, and she wants to move back. You should sit down (perhaps with Jenn's help) and get a plan of action for the forseeable future. If you allow her to move back home, what "negotiation" can you do to make your Plan A time easier to deal with?? In the case with my wife, she would not stop her affair. But I was able to negotiate some points, such as:<P><UL TYPE=SQUARE><BR><LI>Visits to the OM would no longer include taking our children<BR><LI>The OM would stop calling our house<BR><LI>She would not inititate calls to the OM while I was home<BR><LI>She would attempt to limit chat time while I was home<BR></UL><P>Now, none of those seem like huge consessions, but the bottom line was that these behaviors by my wife really upset me, and by asking her (respectfully) to eliminate them, I could stay in Plan A for a longer period of time. I also tried to negotiate away the affair completely, as well as negotiate out the trips to visit the OM. Those negotiations were unsuccessful, and as per the POJA, I'd drop the subject.<P>How far along is she now? What type of timeframe will you have to support her to a pregnancy? Can you do a Plan A throughout the pregnancy, and last for an additional month or so afterwards?<P>If the answer is "yes", or a qualified "yes" (depending on negotiation of appropriate terms with your wife), then Plan A is for you. If it's not going to be possible for you to deal with this without lovebusting---then you will need to institute a LOVING transition to Plan B. Plan B is mainly for YOU to protect YOUR LOVE for your spouse. It's not a punishment for her behavior (although she WILL perceive it as such)---and if you transition to Plan B, definitely get Jenn Harley's advice. In fact, I'd get her input no matter what you do---she may be able to assess whether you'll last in Plan A for the time or not.<P>I think the most harmful thing you can do in this situation is to let your wife move back, and then Plan B her before the baby is born. This will stress her, and put her and the child at risk, etc. Try to avoid that at all costs.

floored, your prayers have been answered all things happen for a reason. Good luck and hopefully soon we will be hearing happy news. Hang in there bye for now flowerseed<P>------------------<BR>Carol Ann

Dear floored,<P>I hope that this turn of events signals something new and positive. You certainly deserve a break.<P>I was disturbed by something in your latest post, however, and want to bring it up. But again, please remember that I have not been in your shoes. When I discovered my wife's affair, it ended. My request for ‘no contact’ was honored, in part because OM dropped her completely to save his own family, and in part because my wife worked very hard to restore complete honesty to our relationship. So I have never really been in your own situation. I did, however, experience many of the emotions and interactions you describe during the long slow months after discovery. But my advice might be biased, and might not apply to your situation.<P>Enough apologies from me, however.<P>You wrote: "demanding that she not talk to OM would probably be a LB."<P>I have a lot of trouble with this statement. Many people on these boards state that they cannot criticize the relationship of their spouse with the OP, or insist that it end, for fear that they would commit a 'lovebuster'. I firmly believe that this is a half-truth, and as such is as dangerous as many outright lies. I will try to lay out why I think this, so that you can see if any of my ideas are useful to you.<P>(1) What truth is contained in this idea? The OM is obviously very important to your wife. And so is her relationship with him. You might tell her "OM is a lying jerk, and your relationship is built on fantasy and delusion. I demand that you stop!" And you would be saying something that is probably true (though I don't know them), but in a way that you should never do. Why? Because you would be making a judgment about OM. You should not do this because each person is entitled to their own opinions, and criticizing your wife's opinions like this would be disrespectful. This aspect is the lovebuster — you are not respecting your wife's opinions, and you are also making demands about what she must do.<P>(2) MORE IMPORTANTLY, you should not make statements like this because the implication behind those words is that the reason she should end the affair is because OM is a lying jerk. And that isn't so. (Maybe he really is a wonderful guy, in some objective way; everyone has good points after all). She should end the affair because it HURTS YOU. And because YOU ARE HER HUSBAND.<P>(3) What else is wrong with this standard marriage-builder idea about love-busting? YOU HAVE DROPPED OUT OF THE PICTURE. You should have a voice in this too. It is your life. I have been reading your posts, and the pain you are experiencing is palpable and overwhelming. If you don't express this pain, you will eventually explode. But the key is how you choose to express it. You must put yourself back into the picture. (For more ideas about this, see <A HREF="http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum28/HTML/002262.html)." TARGET=_blank>http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum28/HTML/002262.html).</A> <P>- Your words matter. Why not tell your wife what you tell us, the truth about you? <P>"I would love to have you back home. But I can't go on with the pain of having you talk to or interact with OM. Every phone call to him that you make hurts me, every lie or deception you make hurts. When I heard that he went to the doctor’s with you, I felt sick. And I can't go on. I still love you, but that feeling is draining away in my pain. I want to rebuild a marriage with you. I would love to raise this child. But I can't continue anymore like this. I will not share you. You are too precious to me to share with OM."<P>Remember, IT IS NOT a 'lovebuster' to tell the truth about yourself. She might argue with you. She might shout that you are making demands on her, or twist your words in a thousand ways. But you can keep coming back to the bottom line. "I know that I am asking you to give up something you love. But I can't go on much longer. I am losing my love for you, and my respect for you, and I don't want to lose either one. Ultimately it is your choice. But if you won't choose, I am going to choose by myself, even though I don't want to do so, because the pain is too much."<P>- This emphasis on you matters. In the speeches I wrote above, you express your own feelings. She might attack you, she might say you aren't being fair, but you can easily defend yourself by telling her that these are your feelings, and if she wants to be married to you, you must feel that they are respected. At the same time, do everything you can to respect her feelings. EXCEPT WITH REGARD TO THE OM. YOU ARE ALLOWED TO INSIST THAT OM NOT BE PART OF YOUR MARRIAGE. EVERYTHING ELSE IS NEGOTIABLE, AND IN EVERYTHING ELSE YOU SHOULD BE EXTREMELY THOUGHTFUL AND SENSITIVE.<P>- The truth. I only wrote words like this because it seems to me that they express what you have been telling us. YOU CAN'T SAY THIS IF YOU DON'T MEAN IT.<P>- Actions. You need to define a bottom line. Maybe the first step is to be honest with her about your feelings for a few weeks, instead of hiding them for fear of ‘lovebusting’. Just be careful. "OM is a jerk" is not a feeling, nor is "you are throwing your life away." (I know you wouldn’t say these things, but I am making up examples). Those are ideas and can be debated. What you need to do is find yourself. Your innermost feelings and beliefs. And express them. <P>Soon it might be necessary to say that you will go to 'plan B' because you hurt too much, and she is continuing the affair. Or eventually, divorce. You cannot change her. You can only state your own feelings and positions, and then follow through. That means you need to be ready, in your mind and heart, to choose some step like this if she continues to ignore you. And to choose it for yourself, and to do so in a way that minimizes hurting her.<P>(4) Also, think about this question - Is it really a 'lovebuster' to tell your wife that you don't want her around OM? Perhaps she won't like it, but consider this:<P>- If you accept (even by silence) her relationship with OM, she might decide that she is not worth fighting for. Many people enter into affairs because of depression or problems with self-esteem, and affairs can create those problems if they don't already exist. I think that your wife probably feels worse if she interprets your tolerance as meaning that she is not worth fighting over, that she is not really good enough for anyone.<P>At this point, I thought of Gregg's description of having OM present in the hospital room during his wife's labor. He felt that his tolerance was a supreme example of love, and I respect his intentions. However, I would guess that his wife might have felt that he didn't care enough to insist that either she or OM treat him with respect. And I would guess (I could be wrong) that his forbearance actually decreased his wife's love for him, because it decreased her respect for her husband and for herself.<P>This last incident might sound unrelated, but many months after the affair ended, OM had his lawyer send a nasty letter to us. I wrote back to him, telling him not to treat my wife that way. She told me that she liked my letter very much, that she liked the way I stuck up for her. I was surprised at first, and also pleased. We betrayed spouses feel so inadequate and unloved and disrespected that sometimes it is hard to believe that our spouses want to see us fight for them. (NOT VIOLENTLY, OF COURSE, BUT IN A DIGNIFIED AND YET ASSERTIVE WAY). We are so busy wanting to be chosen, that we forget that our betrayers are very disturbed by choices, and like to see action and a respectful firmness.<BR> <BR>(5) Finally, I am very suspicious of long-term ‘Plan A’ arrangements. There have been other threads about this topic (http://www.marriagebuilders.com/forum/Forum37/HTML/005551.html). At some point you have to ask if you are being flexible in a crisis, or if you are enabling a destructive and cruel pattern of behavior, much like the spouse of an alcoholic sometimes does. The lies and betrayals in an affair are so devastating that it takes years to recover. If your wife won’t end it, and will not treat you with respect, you will reach a point at which you must stop, for your sake and for hers.<P>The standard marriage builder line is that this point comes when you are in danger of losing your love for your wife. And that loss is a factor. But I believe that there is another consideration. The damage caused by an ‘in-your-face’ affair, by the tacit collusion on your part, and by each deliberate act of cruelty on your wife’s part, is enormous. You might be able to endure this for two years, but at the end your wife might need to be committed to a mental hospital. (And so might you. I almost cracked up just going through withdrawal). I know that this result would be caused by her actions, but you can’t continue to be part of the situation for long without incurring responsibility yourself.<P>So when do you separate? I can’t say. I would have gone through two years of hell, without OM (fortunately, that wasn’t necessary). What I would have done with OM in the picture, I can’t say. Maybe two months. That is your call. But you have to think about things besides the level of love you still feel for her. Her current situation is mentally and morally damaging. My own theory is that the classic ‘fog’ people describe is simply caused by the slow breakdown of the mind as someone tries to adjust reality to fit with the emotions they have experienced in an affair. Facts must be created and denied to justify those feelings, and the enormous cost of their actions. And if this goes on too long, the internal damage is terrible.<P>So there you go. I have written an enormous letter, just to tell you that you should let your wife know, daily, how much her actions hurt you. And I laid out my reasons, so that you can pick and choose ideas as they seem applicable.<P>I have been thinking about your situation for weeks, perhaps because I understand a little of your pain. <P>May God give you the wisdom to choose the right course, and the courage to follow it.<P>StillTrying<P><BR>

Dear floored,<P>As I read K's letter, I thought that his advice was actually very similar (though much more concise). He had good suggestions about things you could ask for that might be based on your feelings, and that might help you to cope with this crisis.<P>Good luck,<P>StillTrying

Stilltrying,<P> Man, I wish I had your insight! <BR>I had told my wife on numerous occasions that if OM was with her in the delivery room, I wouldn't be. I was kind of taken by surprise, because I didn't think my wife would really allow this freak show to happen.<BR> I do think my wife has lost respect for me, I have no other explanation for some of the things I've had to endure. How important is regaining respect in plan A. I feel like a doormat. I have told my wife over and over that I am ready, so ready to work on our marriage, but that we can't even begin until he ends it with OM.<BR> I think sometimes I have done too good a job of protecting her, and I think floored may be thinking the same thing. My wife has not had to endure the scrutiny of friends and family. I asked this question a month ago; am I shooting myself in the foot?? <BR> The thing that really jumps out at me is that floored and I are essentially in the same boat, only I am 14 months downstream, and see no end in sight. What can he do to avoid being in my shoes??<P> God bless you,<P>------------------<BR><P>Gregg

Lynton,<BR>I was thinking the same thing. I talked with my W yesterday and I told her that I was so hurt by OM being there with her. She said that she didn't think he was going to be, but that she was very glad he was so that he could help her during that difficult time. All I see ahead for me is pain, and I think that this last episode has really made me lose a lot of hope, and I fear, love. My biggest fear is that all of this crap is taking away valuable attention and love from my kids. I am all they have right now and I feel like I am the only one who cares. I think that my W lied to me about not being in love with OM, because of her insistance on talking with him and having him there with her at doctor's appointments. I have an appointment with Jenn on Monday night and I hope that we can get a good plan going so that I don't quit too soon. When I talked with my W, she said that she knew I was hurt, but didn't know what to do about it. She told me that OM is a good man and I don't know anything about him. I prefer to keep it that way too. I am taking the kids to see her today and I think I will write her a letter with all of StillTrying's suggestions because they fit so well. W hasn't asked to come back and I'm not going to suggest it for a couple of weeks. I thought K's suggestions were crazy, yesterday, but sleeping on it and thinking about the alternative makes them very possible. I had a devotional a couple of days ago from crosswalk.com that said our lives are sometimes like a feast and famine type analogy. I know that I am in a Ethiopian type famine right now, so it helps to think about the feast ahead!! I just hope my W is able to be there with me.<BR>Floored

Floored and Lynton,<P>My heart aches for you guys every time I read what your WS/W is doing to you and your families. I'm not going to say much, just what I said in my last paragraph from "For the men":<P>We WS/W who are either pregnant, or have a child from OM need to realize who really and truly loves us in this situation. Who can be more selfless than a BH who is willing to raise the OM child as his own, and love this child as his own. We need to open our eyes, and stop holding on to something/someone who has already shown who he is by being the "sperm donor" to a married woman. I don't care how sweet or caring he may seem when you are in the "thick of things", but their true nature will eventually come out.<P>I really wish there was something that I could say to help you guys out in your situations. My H and I were very lucky that the OM showed his true self on D-day. I think that came out when he realized that there was no way he could "keep me". Who knows, and now, who cares. My main goal is to rebuild this marriage, and keep my family intact. Hopefully, your Ws will realize what they have in such wonderful men that they are MARRIED to. You are in my prayers.<P><BR>Tigger