Here's what I'm giving him tommorrow. He said she called from a phone booth bcuz he won't answer her calls (has caller I.D.) I know he told me but it infuriated me! She called to say she was going to FLA. w/her H and kids... like my H cares! my H told her to GO it would be best for her and kids as he wants no more contact w/her and doesn't now or ever loved her. Wants life w/me. He said she won't call she got message. Here's what I wrote am I wrong?<BR>12/11/00<BR>Bobby,<BR>No, I can't take your word for it. She can "trick" you again and call you Then what??? then you'll say no more calls?? What's going on? I don't want you to have ANY contact! Change your cell number. She can and will call any time she wants. Her word means nothing to me. So will her mom. NO!! I don't take your word. I need you to prove things to me to build trust and help me heal. GET A restraining order OR change your cell # Thurs when you go with Michael. I am dead serious....... Without "either/ or" I am at a standstill on what to do. And I'm NOT sorry for what I need!!! SHE Has access TO MY HUSBAND any time she wants! NO CONTACT. I also think by you not being in this house it gives her HOPE!!!! And I sense your being doubtful about being here.... Let's just cool it then till you make up your mind.<BR> I apologize for NOTHING! STOP THE CONTACT WITH PROOF! HER AND HER MOM HAVE BEEN IN THIS MARRIAGE TOO LONG!!!!!!! How dare her mom ask "why you're being so mean to *******"<BR>She left that phone booth and went home and told her mom and that is why she called you. POOR BABY!!! What about ME??? How do you want me to continue to take this? It has to stop and you REALLY have to do things for me to trust you. You have to decide if you want to live with me or not. We are NOT divorced or seperated. You don't account your time to me and I think if you are serious you will be in OUR home and OUR bed without hesitation. And you will do anything to help me out.<BR> Love, Your Wife,<BR> Debi<P>What should I do? Give him this or not?<P>------------------<BR>Imagine....<p>[This message has been edited by gemini1 (edited December 11, 2000).]

I wish I had time to respond at length but I have to leave in a few minutes.<P>Gemini, the letter is too combative and too demanding. Revamp the letter leaving out the parts where it seems like yelling. A different approach may work better for you.<P>Just a quick suggestion of tone could be something like:<P>"Bobby:<P>Mary said she would never call you again but we both know this is not true. I do not trust nor do I believe her.<P>If we decide to start over, we will need to respect each others' boundaries. We can do this by entering into a Policy of Joint Agreement and work together to do what we need to make the other feel secure. One of the things I would like to see changed is your cell phone number so Mary can't threaten any chance we have for reconciliation."<P>Anyway, Gemini, something disarming may draw him closer rather than pushing him away with a hard line stance. Be careful with your tone and how you express yourself. Think about the content and whether or not any of these points you make worth even bringing up. Choose your issues carefully. Just my opinion.<P>Good luck with your letter.<P>Catnip =^^=<P>PS How much of this is really a non-issue now? She leaving the state with her husband. This, I would think, is reason to rejoice. I hope you will reexamine your motives about why you want to write this letter. Maybe a session with the Harleys could help you figure out an approach that would be more effective instead of writing a letter that may or may not be a benefit to you and your marriage. Just somthing to consider.<P><p>[This message has been edited by catnip (edited December 11, 2000).]

Again you help me see things in a different light,Catnip. OOps b right back<P>------------------<BR>Imagine....

gemini,<P>I'm sorry I couldn't reply sooner and I totally agree with catnip! I think the letter as is makes a great vent but a big lovebuster if sent to H. You are entitled to your anger and your venting, but make a nicer letter to your H as it sounds like you've got something worth saving. If XOW is moving out of state with her H (and I'm assuming her H has agreed to raise the OC?! They aren't seeking ch-support?!), that's just the GREATEST!! Of course the phone calls have to go. It sounds like your H is slowly coming to his senses (he's got no business being in contact with OC if it's being raised in a family! Now he sees what he's almost lost!) and you may yet save your relationship for yourselves and your son! Your H was at least honest to tell you about the call(s) and the circumstances, so unless you think he's lying, don't punish him for sharing! Your requirements are very valid(!), but talk about your feelings in as nice a way as possible, ask for the things you need, and see if he'll take those steps you need to be comfortable. Honestly, it looks promising!<P>Forgive me if this comes off telling you what to do, as I don't mean it that way. Just my thoughts at a rapid rate Please take what works and leave the rest!<P>J<BR>PS How do you feel about the possibility of the OC knowing the truth and one day calling or ? It may happen someday, or it may not (I think in this age almost anyone can be found if someone's looking, but the OC may never care to). My point is, if you can stand the idea that one day that might happen, and you think you could allow your H to just talk with this teen or adult OC AT THAT TIME if he/she contacts him out of curiousity or needing medical info., then that might be just enough salve to your H's guilt about "abandoning" this child. You could tell him: let the OC make that choice if he wants to, otherwise leave him/her to their nice life with their nice full-time parents, and we can, with groundrules, recover our nice life too!<P>If you haven't read it already, I've shared the story of my uncle fathering an OC over 30 years ago, the uncle later dying after paying a few years of support with no visitation. The OC contacted my father (her bio-uncle) at 18years old and my parents and I met with her for 3 or 4 visits, then she just faded away. She was never part of the family, but the attitude I learned from that stayed with me. (I recently learned that the same uncle fathered another OC too, but that OC never contacted any bio-family)

Thanks Jenny. And Catnip. You shed an important light on subject.<P>Ok, first of all, she's not moving. Just a Christmas visit w/their kids. I know her H said he w/raise baby but she told my H early on he did not want to pay.So if it's his I know he'd have no problem.<BR>At this point as of yesterday, my H told her "I am with my wife. I love my wife. I am moving back home(yup we both want that.It's been a month and I think we're ready to resume as H and W)I want you to go to Florida for the sake of your 3 kids and let them be with their father. I wish you could go back to him. It would be for the best. If you call me again I'm prepared to put a restraining order against you, and I am serious.Goodbye"<P>So now today he says "I'm afraid of what my mind will do in May when we read she has baby. You have to help me if after paternity test it is mine." Ok I said. Then, he said... What if I stay away and child grows up hating me? She's gonna tell who bio dad is.I know she will" At this point no one knows that. I said it would be best for C to grow up not feeling different, to have a relationship with it's 3 siblings and hopefully they will be together and provide stability. By him forcing visitation out of guilt would be wrong. Also any hope for us will be done.Period. So if he wants a fantasy life w/oc he will have a few days a month. Her kid's already resent him not to mention her H.I will be gone. Is that helping you in your decision? He says yes,I only love and want you.<P>Well guys we're moving forward, but in May I'm scared he will change his mind out of guilt. It's a chance I'm willing to take,because at least I'll have known I've given my all. PRAY... PRAY.... OMG I must be crazy... I LOVE him.<P>I didn't give him the letter... thank God for all your help.I still am overwhelmed at the supreme kindness I have been privileged to by putting questions into cyberspace and have people as wonderful as you help me out.<P>Much gratitude to all who have helped me.<BR> Debi<P>BTW I am prepared to see oc in future if it wants to meet him. It'll be hard but ok with me.<BR>------------------<BR>Imagine....<p>[This message has been edited by gemini1 (edited December 12, 2000).]

gemini1, Catnip has such a wonderful way with words I agree with her. I know when I would write a letter the first one was always full of anger and demands . Before the day was done the final letter would end up much better. I used to take all the angry ones and this may sound crazy and burn them. For some reason it would help. My neighbors probley though I was turning into an arsonist.Matter a fact anything that had bad feelings attached went up in flames. No my husband didnt suffer any burns ha ha. hang in there with love flowerseed<P>------------------<BR>Carol Ann

You are a doll Flowerseed.... heh...heh... burn,eh? ok I might try it! Thanks!<BR> Debi<P>------------------<BR>Imagine....

Gemini1,<P>I know that you don't really like hearing from OW, but please read what I have to say. I just wanted to say that in my case, about telling the OC about her bio-father, that I will only tell her what she NEEDS to know. In my case, the bio-father showed me that he was very violent AFTER he realized that I was choosing to stay with my H. OM has no idea, at least we hope, that I am pregnant. He was kicked out of the military for medical reasons, but had also gone to what is called Captain's Mast right before he got out for asualting my H.(the asualt happened on our front porch with my daughter watching in the front window. He was sick enough to tell one of my friends that the only thing keeping him from killing my H was the fact that my d was in that window !!) This child, that is due in March, will know that her "Daddy" is my H, because he "chose" her, and that if she really wants to know about her bio-father, we will answer just her questions, and not offer any possible biased extras. Not all OM, in fact most all other OM, are like this creep that I got screwed up with. I don't catagorize them all in his catagory. Our hope is that he never finds out, cause that would give him more reason to try to harrass us(even on a military order to leave us alone, he still tried to get my H to leave me!) That's kinda why I don't feel like the OW most of the time. Yes, I did screw up, and I don't try to get out of taking the blame. I just am not after any money or anything else from this "sperm donor". Maybe like Jenny posted about her uncle, this oc may contact you later down the road, but not become involved in your family. I don't think that your H should feel guilty about not having contact with OC, especially if this XOW gets back together with her H. Let them raise this child as their own. It sounds to me as if your H really does love you, and want to be with you only. Just let him know that you are there for him, now, and in May when this OC is due. Also, through all the tests and whatever else XOW may come up with to try to "stay in his life". I think that Flowerseed has a good idea about the burning. I've done that myself, and it really does help, to write out all those angry, bad feelings, and then send them up in smoke. I hope I was able to help from this point of view, and I hope that I didn't say anything to make you feel bad about me. I am recovering as well, just on a side road from the one you are on. I just hope that you and you H can get past May, and continue to grow together in love and your marriage.<P>Tigger

Hi Tigger,<BR>I was so happy to hear your side of the story. I'm sorry that violence had to enter into your life.....geeze, some people!<P>It would be cool if she wanted to stay w/her H. At this point I don't know that she will. She threw him out after blasting him w/the news and filed for dissoultion. Haven't heard much more except he begged her not to do this.<P> You and she seem miles apart in your thinking. Were you ever planning on staying with OM? She was. She told my H she fell in love with him. When he was breaking it off she went off pill.... then 3 wks after it was ended she called to tell him(middle Aug)<BR>She's called to say they heard 2 heartbeats, she's called to say sonogram told sex of baby/babies,she's called w/due date May 1, We don't know what the heck is true. We must wait and see. <P>I know now all contact is done or my H is going to prosecute her.<P>Anyway,thanks for input. I feel no anger toward you.I'd love to read anything you have to say....<P>Big Q? Did you try to get pregnant too? You don't have to answer you know. I just wondered.<P>How does your H feel about child? Your other kids? <P> Thanks for your input Tigger.<BR> Debi<p>[This message has been edited by gemini1 (edited December 12, 2000).]

I agonized over how I would react and what the impact would be on my husband when we heard the DNA results. <P>We were told via electronic court testimony that the results were 99.9%, (never received any documentation, however) discussed other issues pertaining to our finances and nothing more was said about it at the time.<P>Neither of us had a 'change of heart' nor did any of our feelings about the outcome change anything when the results were read.<P>All the official results did was simply confirm what we already knew to be true.<P>When OC was born in August '99, I found out it was born through some of my amateur spy techniques (the Nancy Drew in me) and I told my husband whatever information I was able to get from the nurse at the hospital by pretending to be a family friend. <P>I relayed the information. He said, "Oh".<P>We went on like always. We have discussed OC, but, to him, because he has never seen her or had any contact with OW since January 1999, he says OC doesn't seem real to him; that it has been relatively easy for him to detach/decompartmentalize and let them live in peace, and try to allow he and I to find peace once again.<P>Again (I am starting to sound like a broken record), the Wayward Spouse's ONLY responsibility is to the Betrayed Spouse, the marriage and to the family they had together. Anything or anyone else (let no man or woman or any other entity tear you asunder) are secondary and involvement with them come only with A POLICY OF JOINT AGREEMENT, honoring and respecting each other with RULES OF PROTECTION AND HONESTY.<P>For anything in your lives, there must first and foremost be the firm foundation on which to build. If this means no contact with OC, OW, OM, OP, ABC and XYZ, then it means NO CONTACT under any circumstances.<P>Someday, when OC shows up on our doorstep, I will welcome her into our home with a hug. I know seeing her will make me misty and tear at my heartstrings and I will be sad for reasons that are such a paradox...she and I are the two innocents in all this, she is the child that should have been mine, she will have spent her entire life without ever knowing her Dad, she will have always wondered why there was no contact, but I will be prepared to empathetically and loveingly explain to her that it had to be this way. And she will have to come to terms with it. <P>My husband may or may not be able to gauge his feelings about this, but this is the price he must pay in order to repair, restore and reconcile the marriage, rebuild our life, restore my faith and trust in him, rebuild a cohesive loving home, and allow the OC to enjoy a life within her mother's family without interference from my husband or from me, without anxiety, confusion and torn loyalties. <P>Unfortunately, my Crystal Ball is in the shop so I have no way of knowing what the future will be, but I am prepared, probably better than my husband, to welcome this girl into our home when she is grown and can handle the gentle truth. I intend to be kind. I intend to be sensitive. <P>My husband? He will probably be a little choked up and feel ashamed and guilty, meet her, talk to her a while, then she will leave and we will probably never hear from her again because she will have her own life, her own family and her curiousity will have been satisfied. That's all that many of them want anyway. I speak from experience because I once gave up a son for adoption that sought me out, got to know me, his curiosity satisfied and then simply disappeared once he figured out who he was and who I was. He is happy.<P>Don't borrow trouble or agonize over how everyone will react. What I thought would be a tsunami of wretched feelings turned out to be a hiccup of momentary discomfort.<P>We have so much more and so many other things and issues we are dealing with, we hardly have time to think about us.<P>Somewhere in the Bible it says something about 'wearing life like a loose garment'.<P>Get out your moo-moo's, Ladies.<P>Catnip =^^=<P>[This message has been edited by catnip (edited December 12, 2000).]<p>[This message has been edited by catnip (edited December 12, 2000).]

Gemini1,<P>No, I did not try to get pregnant. In fact, I think that our OM and your OW are cut from the same cloth, just one is dyed blue and one is pink!! In my case, OM had emotionally blackmailed me. My H is in the Navy and was on his 6 mo cruise with his ship, and before this, we had seen/been together about 3 mos out of that past year. That is were my H and my problems started, or at least the most current part of them. Any way, this OM and I became friends, and would "talk" about our marital problems. I had even told him, after the A started, that I couldn't see my life without my H, and I never wanted to loose him, basically, that if I had to make a choice, it would by my H, not OM. OM was the one who wanted me to get pregnant. He even tried to get me to think that someone from his past had found out about us and was blackmailing him to get me pregnant!!! If you can believe that. Of course, when I caught him in his little lie, he denied it, and tried to say that it was me printing these blackmail notes on his computer. That is when he realized that I wasn't as stupid as he thought I was, and that I was going to end it. Unfortunately, I didn't end it soon enough.<P>As for how my H feels about this child, he loves it as his own, but still has hard times dealing with it sometimes. He has gone to all but 2 of my OB appointments. Those were due to his work schedule. He chose the name, Abigail Rebakah. I don't know the exact definition, but Abigail means "father's gift". Our son and daughter, 10 and 8 respectively, just know that we will have a baby in March. They will eventually know what is necessary, but that will come in time. I think that it will be a while before we do tell them, mostly because our d is still having nightmares about OM coming into the house to kill us!!<P>As for being "in love" with OM, I thought I was for a while, but it never compared to what I feel for my H. Which I also told this man. After reading "His needs, Her needs", I understand a little more in regards to the Love Bank deposits, and it is that frame that I believed that I loved this OM. He was providing something that I had been missing for about a year. Needless to say, his account is now closed and sealed shut, never to be opened again!!! <P>My H and I still have a lot to work on, and we both realize that(he posts here as Sailorman59, although not as often as I do) For now, we want to repair as much as we can with eachother, before we open anything else with telling our kids what exactlly happened. <P>When I read posts like yours, about the XOW and what she is doing to your lives, I just want to hit them over the head with a 9 inch cast iron skillet!!!! I have realized my mistakes, and am dealing with them, without involving the OM and his family. Like I have said before, the last thing that I would want to do is take anything from him, especially if it would take away from his W and D. The only thing that would make me do that is if he found out about the child and forced my hand about visitation. Then I would demand CS, just to have something to fight back with. This may sound awful, but I hope that he and his W are divorced and he is paying her CS before/if he ever finds out about this child. That way, they will get what they need without me taking from them. I don't know if that makes cense. Basically, I don't want ANYTHING from this OM ever.<P>Ok, so I rambled again. Sorry I just hope that I shed some more helpful light on my situation, and if it helps you in yours, great. Like I said before, my OM and your OW are cut from the same cloth, so I know where a lot of your feelings are coming from, and thank you for the confirmation that you don't feel anger towards me. I only want to help others as I heal the damage I have done in my marriage.<P>Tigger<P>

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Don't borrow trouble or agonize over how everyone will react. What I thought would be a tsunami of wretched feelings turned out to be a hiccup of momentary discomfort<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>I'll follow your words Catnip.You've been there and should know a lot more than me.<P>Tigger,you are right, they are cut from the same cloth.... again I'm sorry for all of you for that lunatic's violent behavior.<BR>May your family be in the hands of God now....<P>------------------<BR>Imagine....

Gemini:<P>Follow your heart, use your head. Try not to react with emotion. I know this is a hard thing to do because I have a tough time with it myself. Someday, perhaps. I hope I will be able to follow my own advice.<P>Catnip =^^=

I will try, Catnip. I will try......<P> Debi<P>------------------<BR>Imagine....