Just a week or so ago, I was so hopeful. But it has all fallen apart. I found out that he was not being totally honest about the relationship with the ow. He was around enough to know that her birth control pills were dissappearing daily, so that's why he didn't use a rubber. It was also more than just a couple of time. I know about as much of the truth now, as I care to know. I have had enough. Catnip and all others on this board, I wish you luck and love. For me, I can't deal with any of this anymore, especially in the face of the fact that he is still not being totally honest, when he knows what the cost will be. It is over. I am giving up. Thanks for all the support you have given me, for so long. But now it is time I face facts. It's just not worth the cost to me, to continue, if he's not going to be totally honest. And I am so rundown now, it's all I can do to make it through a day of work, before I have to come home and cry myself to sleep. I just can't do this anymore.

I am sorry to hear that you are calling it quits. I know that it is hard to live with someone who won't be completely honest with you. I just pray that you can find the peace that you need, and don't hesitate to come post here if you need to vent some more.<P>Tigger

Dear ktgirl,<P>Every one of us on this board knows how hard it is to live with what we are facing - betrayed spouses and out-of-wedlock children as reminders. It is a hurt that gets better only to have something trigger a relapse and you're back in the depths of despair. So, if you have really thought this through and there is no other solution, I fully understand.<P>But, I do want to share one simple thing with you. My H wrote the book on avoiding conflicts. He runs from the truth at every turn, especially if it will hurt our relationship. Is it possible that your H was not completely honest because he thought this was the reception his honesty would get?<P>To me, it doesn't matter if he slept with the tramp in my life one time or one hundred times. In either case he broke our sacred marriage vows. Checking birth control pills seems to me to be something that I would do if I was a man trying to be careful. I don't think a man "in love" cares whether the love of his life gets pregnant or not.<P>Your post reminded me of myself. I kept asking my H to tell me everything. "I can handle it", I said. "I just want to know the truth". Well, the truth is that I don't think he ever told me the whole truth and now I know that I never wanted to hear it and I couldn't handle it if I did.<P>What I wanted to find was a reason for the horrible thing that he did to me. I wanted to make sense out of nonsense and there is no way to do that. There is no excuse that your H or mine can give that will be good enough to excuse their behaviour. <P>What DID change is me. I no longer want to know. I no longer want to be a prisoner to the constant hurt and anger that is kept ever present when you keep churning the details of his transgressions. It happened and I cannot change it. And, if it happens again, then there will be a whole different ending. But, I have chosen to forgive him and go on with our life. I refuse to dwell on the past night and day.<P>These days I am a much happier person. These days I can look at my H and see the man I married not the man who "did me wrong". I have chosen to love him again like I have never been hurt. And believe me, it is scary! But, at the end of the day we have to live in our moment -- not crying about the past or worrying about the future. Otherwise, we waste it all.<P>I hate to see good marriages go bad over the stupidity or immaturity of the moment of one of the partners. So I am asking you to search your heart one more time, look in his eyes and trust your heart to read what you find there. If the love is there, if the regret is there then work on forgiveness. <P>If the love is not there, and it is truly time to move on then I pray that God will give you strength to guide you into your future. And, as tigger said, we will always be here to help you over the rough spots, to cry with you, or laugh with you. We are here for you.<P>- Heavenly

Ktgirl,<BR>I am so sorry to hear about your heartache<BR> . Please take the time to make sure in YOUR HEART that this is what you firmly believe to be the right thing to do. Take your time and think it through. We are here for you either way. I wish you peace ktgirl. You will be in my prayers.

Ktgirl,<BR>I'm sorry, but I don't know your whole story or how long you have been dealing with your H's A. I know that I kept going through all of my W's lies and was trying to trust her again, only to be deceived again and again. Well, tomorrow I am sending my Plan B letter to her. Some Christmas present, huh? I know how you feel, but have you ever done a Plan B? The way I look at it, it can't hurt and it is nice to not have to have the day to day "in your face" kind of crap that your WS might bring up. I may change my mind later, but I am looking forward to Plan B just because I can't bear to be hurt anymore, and if I don't have to talk to my W, then I won't find out about whether or not she has talked to OM. Think about it if you haven't already and I'll keep posting with updates on my plan B progress. No one here will blame you though if you decide to call it quits, you have been strong not to have thrown your H out when you found out about the A in the first place.<BR>God Bless you,<BR>Floored

Oh, ktgirl. I could sit here and spout all kinds of rhetoric about lying wayward spouses and get on a militant bandwagon about lies and betrayal, but I would be doing you an immense disservice as a friend and as a fellow member of this particular site. The truth is, we are all here because it is all about saving marriages and following the principles taught here.<P>Heavenly said it best, ktgirl. Please read and then reread her eloquent and compassionate post to you. Everyone here cares a great deal about you and what you are going through. <BR>We all know how you feel, we all know the drill, we have all experienced the pain of discovering more lies after we believed we knew it all.<P>The lies come from fear, ktgirl. They come from the fear of retribution. He lied because he is afraid of the consequences and your reaction. And, I believe, in his misguided thinking, he believed he was sparing you and protecting you from further hurt.<P>Before you react, consider what the others have said, the advice and counsel you have received from them and take time to examine your heart. Take time to cool off and look at things clearly before you make such a life altering decision. Don't be hasty.<P>In the meantime, you'll be in my prayers. I am so glad you came here to work through this. What do you say?<P>Catnip =^^=<P>

Geeze KTGirl my heart is so sad for you.I'm kind of at an impass myself. Only you can know what is in your own mind. My H "did" her infrequently, never in a bed, on the steps in her house so they could "watch out" and in her car! in sleazy bar parking lots.<BR>OH! He said she never came in our car cuz she said "she just couldn't do that" What a true friend to consider me...eh?<P>Does your H LOVE you? Do you love him? Is he meeting your healing needs? Ask yourself that honey,before you move on.<P>Bless you kt....<P>------------------<BR>Imagine....

Tigger,<BR> I have been without peace for so long, I am scared I won't be able to deal with it when I do find it again. Thanks for the warm wishes. Hopefully, I will be able to put my life back together.

Heavenly,<BR> Thank you for explaining all that to me. At this point, I don't think that I will get a chance to look in his eyes. We aren't speaking. <BR> I know before I made it seem like I was angry about him being with her more than he said he did. It's not that. The point is he lied. I agree with you, it doesn't matter if it was once or a million times. I can see that he might have thought it would hurt me more to tell the truth, and yes it is in his favor that he was trying to prevent the baby by checking her pills, but there were two really good ways to do that, abstinence, and a condom. I am lucky that I didn't pick up some nasty std from the whole thing. If he knew he didn't want a child with this woman, he shouldn't have been having unprotected sex with her. Period. <BR> Another sore point with us is he said at the time we argued, which brought this whole thing about, that he had no one to talk to about his feelings about the affair, as everyone kept telling him what he did was stupid, and dismissing it at that. He says he needs to get it off his chest, and can't cause no one wants to listen. I have tried to get him to go to counseling, he refused. I have even tried to get him to come here and talk to another H maybe who is going through the same thing, as I know there are a few of them around, who are going through it, and will allow him to vent,and move on from there. His answer? He hates computers, and he can think of much better things to do with his time than to sit in front of one. I am desperate. I know he loves me. I know I love him. But I need him to help me here. He has to make some effort, I can't do it all on my own. And I am tired of having him shoot down everything I suggest. Any suggestions? Cause I really don't want to have to end my marriage. I do love him. And we can make it, if he helps. But I am tired of beating my head against a brick wall.

Leelee,<BR> I don't know what else to do. I know in my heart, that I don't want to end my marriage, but I can't do this alone, and I can't live with lies anymore. I don't know what to do.

Floored,<BR> I have been dealing with this for quite some time now. We seperated almost two years ago, because I suspected an affair, which he then denied. I cut off all contact with him, and went on with my life. We went almost eight months with no contact, and he suddenly began showing up at my job with gifts and things like that. Bringing lunch, which he had never done. We began talking, and after a month or so, I was convinced that he was serious about making up to me what pain he had caused. So we began dating again, each other, and working on the marriage. Shortly after, OW hits him with the news of the pregnancy. Of course he had confessed the affair by then, but said it was "only a couple of times". Yeah right. There is no contact with the OW, the affair has been over for a long time. She came to show him the baby, which he refused to look at. He goes for DNA testing on the 19th. I just want honesty. I need to be able to trust him totally, which I cannot if he won't be honest. How do you write a plan B letter, telling someone that? I thought plan B's were mostly to deal with continued contact with the OM/OW. But I can be mistaken, so if I am wrong on that, I will be glad for suggestions on how to go about this plan B thing. All I know is I can't go on with things the way they are. And I am so totally worn out by this, maybe I just don't have the strength to see the answer right before my face. If someone can, please enlighten me.

Catnip,<BR> I know everything that everyone is saying is true and good. I just don't know what else to do. I am just tired right now. I am so tired, I don't think I can handle any more of this, especially since he won't cooperate with me by being honest, or by coming here or somewhere to talk about the affair and get it off his chest. I can't be the one to listen, cause I think what he did is stupid. But I know there are other men here who have cheated, that won't be as judgemental as I or his Mother would be. I know he needs to vent about it, but I can't be the one. Not strong enough. It's gonna take a miracle to save this marriage, especially since we aren't even speaking at this time. Maybe it's just too late.

ktgirl,<P>There is no way that your H should use you to vent about his A! I agree with you 100% on that. <P>What would be much more constructive would be for both of you to vent about the feelings that each of you were experiencing at the time his A began and the feelings that you are experiencing now. Maybe if you can understand the frame of mind that he was in that led him to make such a bad decision, then you two could work on improving the environment.<P>Sometimes it is so hard to discuss these issues face to face because anger, disappointment, betrayal -- so many other powerful emotions come into play. Perhaps it would be a good idea for you to write him a letter saying simply what you told us. You love him and you know he loves you. You are willing to work on the marriage but you can't do it alone -- he has to help you. And let him know that you are considering ending it -- not because you want to but because you cannot go on being tortured.<P>It is amazing how the written word sometimes has so much more power than the spoken word. Try to hang on ktgirl. There is love there and like Catnip said we are all about trying to save our marriages. I know in my case, my H and I hit bottom before we could start up. But, hitting the bottom frightened us both so much, it really made us think about what we were throwing away.<P>Floored wrote a Plan B letter that you can look at. His situation is different from yours but the spirit of the letter is essentially the same -- I am sorry that we have reached this point, I know the roles that each of us have played to get to this point, this is what it will take to get us back on track, and I hope that you can rise to the occasion and help us get there.<P>After your breakup, he came looking for you. It is over with the OW. He does not want to be in the OC's life. My dear, your stage is set for a very happy ending and I am hoping that you will find the strength to exhaust every possibility before you throw the towel in.<P>Let us all be your strength. Write to us five times a day if you have to -- just keep strong. Do something nice for yourself and try to shift your mind a little bit from this constant melodrama. <P>My prayers are with you at this difficult time.<P>- Heavenly

Heavenly,<BR> I have been considering writing him a letter. I did look at floored letter, which is an excellent one. I was considering a similar letter to H, although I don't have to worry about OW, at this point she is null and void. I had even considered setting him up an email, and posting a plea on here that men who have cheated and are dealing with the same type of situation try to connect with him and let him get the affair off his chest. I do know that is something that he needs, I have been able to do that here, getting my feelings vented. He does deserve the same chance to vent, but he has been unable to find that person who will or can listen without prejudice. I don't even know if he would go for that knowing his feeling about computers, but I thought it was a good idea. I mean he could talk one on one with someone who has been there, and will understand better than anyone else, and maybe help advise him. And he wouldn't have to do it on the board, he could use a Instant Messenger to talk to the person, and get direct feedback. I would simply sign in the computer, and let him take over from there, without standing over his shoulder. I do understand that he needs closure also, and it will be hard to get for him considering what is going on in our lives. But while I do see things his way, his vision doesn't seem to extend to me. I don't know, what do you think about my idea? I am desperate here, and trying to think of anything that might possible give me the happy marriage I need, and the loving husband I had back.

ktgirl, my heart goes out to you. i am sorry you are having so much pain. i know you love your husband. i think we don't always get all the truth. and sometimes i think it is better. like heavenly said, whether it was once or 5 times, the outcome is the same. we now have to deal with the present. i know my husband has never really told me every single detail. but it is probably for the best. i know more than i really cared to know anyway.<P>search your heart. but i am behind you with whatever decision you make. your H has to realize you can't be the only one trying. it can only be for so long and then you will no longer want to try. he may then decide to and it could be to late. i don't know what else to say except my prayers for you.<P>happy_girl

Happy Girl,<BR> H and I had a long tearful discussion tonight. It is over. We tell the kids tomorrow, that we are filing for divorce. He says he still loves me, and will always love me, but he can't deal with seeing the pain that he has caused me anymore. He says it is in my eyes. He is afraid to talk to me for fear of saying something wrong. He thinks that it will never work out, and that he will never be able to make me happy again. I told him that I feel he is making another mistake, but he insists that this is for the best. So it's out of my hands. Again, thank you all for your support. It has truly been appreciated.

ktgirl,<P> I am so sorry, so sorry. This is the end result I think we're all afraid of. I know it sounds ludicrous to say don't give up hope at this point, but untill the ink is dry on the decree, a lot of things can happen.<BR> I know how it feels to be lied to, and have become an expert on the variations of lying; minimizing, half truths, lies of omission, white lies, lapses of memory. I think the lies hurt more than the A itself, because they are an ongoing ongoing reminder of the disregard your spouse has for you.<BR> I hope you still have some love for your husband, maybe being away from him will salvage what love is left. If there is, then there is always some hope.<P> God bless you, <P>------------------<BR><P>Gregg

Gregg,<BR> I do still love my husband. I don't see the situation as being a desolate as he does. But I can't do it by myself. And at this point I am too tired to fight this. If that's what he wants, that is what he gets. I had read everyone's earlier replies telling me to search my heart, which I did, and decided that there was something to hold onto. His searching, however, told him otherwise. So I have to live with what he decides.<BR>

ktgirl,<P>Lynton is so right -- until the ink is dry, there is always a chance. It may be for the best that the two of you separate now so that he can have another taste of life without you and the love of your marriage. Perhaps that will be the jolt that he needs to get his act together and want to try again. I hope so.<P>Meanwhile, I still think that you should continue to let him know that you are ready, willing and able to work it out if he is willing to invest some energy on his end. And, in about a week, after he has had some time to let his latest bad decision sink in, you should still send him a letter. Perhaps your words will be received in a different and better light after he has had a cooling down period and done some soul searching of his own.<P>I continue to pray for you and your family. Don't lose hope completely, amazing things can still happen.<P>- Heavenly

Heavenly,<BR> I wish I could believe that. But he made it pretty clear. And we have been seperated all this time, we were working our way back financially to get another home together. We did spend a lot of time together. He says he isn't ready for marriage, so I don't have any reason to hope. He also says that he can't change to make me happy, so it will never work. As long as his mind is set, it never will. So I am just allowing him to have what he wants, the divorce, and not having to see the pain in my eyes anymore. Like this will remove the pain. Strange way of thinking he has.