hi guys. me again. been doing good. but something someone posted made me worry. just learning said that dr. harley recommends dissolving the marriage if a child results from an affair and the married couple have no children together. we have no children together. we are 25-me and 27 and have been married almost 5 years. we aren't planning any children until i finish school which will be in 2 1/2 years or so.<P>my question is, am i the only one here who doesn't have any kids already with my husband? OC is husbands first biological child. ours will be his first planned and made with love child. (not that that makes any difference i guess, though to me it does)<P>i always feel sad that our first child won't be his first, though he says he doesn't consider OC his daughter, he was just the sperm donor.<P>please guys, need your support and advice.<P>happy_girl

one more thing. our court system sucks! or maybe our attorney does. the online court docket said the order for genetic testing was filed in october. we have been waiting for something to come in the mail and have received nothing. courts are always slow so wasn't worried. <P>today checked the court docket and they have again filed a motion for default. last time the lawyer for the b&*$# filed for default when their own online system showed we had filed a response!! i don't know if you have a lawyer are court documents only sent to him/her?? i checked the arizona bar and our lawyer has no complaints or reprimands and is a member of the bar association. is that a good sign?<P>hubby is going tomorrow to talk to him and if his office is closed for holiday is going to courts to ask for advice. i do not want this thing to go to default. then b&$%# gets whatever she wants per month. or am i going a little beserk??<P>please help. moral support and or legal advice.<P>thanks guys!<P>sad today happy_girl<P>p.s. please pray i don't nag H to death with my worries. he is worried to but i am going bananas here and don't need to drive him any further or the edge...

Happy girl,<BR> There are exceptions to every rule. Sounds like your marriage is working, stop second guessing!<BR> I have an ex wife, and my wife <BR>has always resented her. It just ate at <BR>my wife to write that check every month.<BR>In our state(Missouri) the state can deduct directly from your paycheck. This is so much better, for us. No check to write, no phone calls because the check is lost in the mail, it's already taken out before you cash your check, like social security. If my ex has any problems, she deals with the state,and my wife and I are out of the loop! If your state has this option, I recommend it, takes some stress off your marriage.<BR> When you do have a child, you will experience a joy you can't even imagine now. Who's child was born first won't matter. It won't make your child any less a miracle!<P> God bless you,<P> <P>------------------<BR><P>Gregg

thanks gregg! i tend to read to much into things sometimes. i guess i get all worked up over things sometimes when i should be calm. i am just sick of these court games. even though it will kill financially i would rather be at that point in the game where we were just having the support deducted from hubby's check. anything would be better than all this stress of being in limbo. it has been this way since april for goodness sakes!<P>thanks for your advice. i am just all stressed out and when things get me stressed i start second guessing and having doubts. it sucks. wish i wasn't such a nut.<P>happy_girl

HG:<P>I have never heard Harley say that! I can't imagine him saying something like that. <P>My husband and I have no children together either, but we have a twenty year history and share our three chidlren from previous marriages. They are all grown and gone and have been for ten years.<P>The priest I spoke with at Retrouvaille encouraged me to stay in my marriage. He is the same priest who told me that the only responsiblity we had to the OC was financial and that our marriage came first. <BR>He said, "If you think staying in your marriage and working together to restore it is difficult, divorcing would be a hundred times harder, much worse for you."<P>Happy girl, if your husband is truly and deeply in love with you, if you know in your heart he is sincere, remorseful and committed to you, then staying in your marriage is where you both belong. You must do what is best for you. You know better than anyone how strong your marriage is and what kind of man your husband is.<P>As far as the legal issues...Bystander? Are you out there?<P>Catnip =^^=

catnip, thanks for the reality check. i am just being a nut. i get a little out of my normal realm sometimes and act a bit crazy. i know my husband loves me, know he is sorry for what he has done, know he is totally committed to me and our marriage. i just sometimes can't believe it will all be alright.<P>i get the same way when i read one of those statistics that say children who are sexually abused have a higher chance of becoming a child molester. i would never do that, it makes me sick to think about it, but i read that stuff and think maybe i shouldn't have kids. i overreact i guess.<P>thanks again for your dose of reality check medicine. as always your replies help me immensely.<P>happy_girl

Ladies,<P>Calm down. My comment is not to scare you. I posted the link to his letter in a-conundrum's thread. He said, that when there are no children, the OM (he is talking about the W becoming pregnant, not the OW) is single and the affair is still going on, that he is inclined to recommend that the couple divorce.<P>It seems to me that neither of you are in this situation. First, you are not pregnant and certainly not from OM (you two don't have OM). Second, the affairs are over and your H's want to remain with you. And third, the OP is out of the picture other than alot of legal stuff that is very unfair in many cases.<P>This is another case of biological inequity. If the W becomes pregnant, then the H has to deal with the OM's child in his home all of the time. If the H's OW becomes pregnant then the OC is out of the house most of the time. <P>So don't panic. The situation he discussed is different from yours.<P>I am very very sorry if I caused you to worry. Please accept my apologies.<P>God Bless,<P>JL<P>

Hey,<P><BR> How 'bout those Vikings??!!<P><BR> God bless you, <P>------------------<BR><P>Gregg

just learning,<P>no need to apologize. i just was sad to think dr harley's advice would be for our marriage to end because we have no children! <P>thanks for the clarification. your post caught me at a bad time. i was reeling because the courts are screwing up everything again and i am afraid that they are going to award child support judgement by default because we never received order to go for genetic testing. don't know if lawyer did and they never notified us or what!?!?!?!<P>so thanks for letting me know what the post was referring to. i think catnip was just trying to help paranoid me.<P>happy_girl

Oh! There is Happy_girl,<P>Life has enough problems without something I say, causing you or anyone to feel further down. So I do really apologize.<P>I hope you can get to your lawyer's office tomorrow. They maybe liable for the cost of things if they have failed to forward information to you and your H. So be certain that all is as it should be and don't trust them to do it right.<P>God Bless,<P>JL

Dear happy-girl(future nurse; good for you!)<P><BR> The legal system moves slow, don't let it get to you.<P> This is a time when your husband and you can pull together, be a team.<P><BR> Maybe Heavenly would offer her excellent council regarding legal proceedings.<P> <BR> God bless you,<P>------------------<BR><P>Gregg

JL, please don't apologize. had i looked around i could have found the letter from dr. harley and realized he was talking to a man married to woman pregnant with OM's child. sorry i made you feel like you caused my mess! i wrote questions for my H to take to lawyer. <P>do you happen to know if court only sends documents to lawyer?? or to the person involved too?<P>thanks for writing.<P>happy_girl

thanks gregg!! we are trying to be a team. he is wonderful. i couldn't ask for a better husband, despite all the problems we have had. he is the most wonderful person i know, and i am lucky to be his wife. he is pretty lucky too. lol.<P>thanks for being there when i needed someone tonight. i get weird sometimes and i am glad you were online...<P>i hope one day your wife fully realizes what a nice person you are.<P>happy_girl<BR>

Happy girl,<BR>there was a wonderful young woman on the MB boards 2 years ago when I first came here. I still hear from her once in a great while... Anyway, they do not have children together and the OC is 3-4 years old by now (like you, they had been married several years before the A). They are doing great, although they have lots of problems with his parents, who have basically chosen the XOW and OC over them! (bad, bad, bad) <P>Keep up the good work! <BR>J

Gregg<P>How 'bout those Vikings!? It was torture to watch their last three games. It seems like it is always that way with them. The explode promise and glory in the beginning, getting us all excited and then...this. It's too much. I can't talk about it. Yeah, how 'bout them.<P>Catnip =^^=

Gregg -<P>Yeah rah-rah ! I don't think I can even watch the play offs - too painful. Randy Moss can't do it all by himself !!

thanks for sharing the story jenny. i always feel like the only one who has no kids yet with my husband. luckily my dad and stepmom don't know and his mother does but she lives in another country and has no contact with OW. his brother the blabber mouth told her.<P>if my dad did find out though i know he wouldn't want contact. though i hope he never finds out.<P>take care jenny!!<P>happy_girl

Catnip and Carriemom, <P><BR> I was just joking with that <BR>Vikings comment. Sounded like things <BR>were getting a little heated and I <BR>thought I would try a little diversion( <BR>I forget that you can't see the look on <BR>my face when I type these gems).<P> Anyway, at least you didn't have <BR>to suffer through a Chiefs season!! At <BR>least the agony is over.( Till <BR>nextyear!)<P><BR> God bless all you Norsemen,<P><BR> ( Did I spell that right? It <BR>looks like Nor-semen! Sounds like a male <BR>contraceptive. You should see my face!)<P><BR> <P>------------------<BR><P>Gregg

well, talked to the lawyer today. he has fixed the problem. we were supposedly sent a letter with the date of the paternity test but we never got it. he got the cc, but i know we never received any letter. he was supposed to go for the blood test on december 11, and since he didn't they filed for default judgement.<P>so now he goes on monday january 8. it is very scary. we talked a lot today, about the whole thing. i can't help but rehash it when the subject comes up. i hope one day i will stop that. it is very hard for my H. he never says it, just answers my endless repeated questions (kind of like you guys do with my questions here), but i can see it in his eyes. i wish i could be hypnotized to forget the whole thing, and convinced that the child support is just another bill. i wonder if that would work.<P>so, lawyer says if test is positive that we start paying immediately before court date so judge looks favorably upon hubby. and also to try to have some money saved up for a lump sum so we can try to bargain out of the arrearages, which will be all the money she received on welfare for 3 years now. he seems to think it won't be too much, but i bet it will be. he says interest is 10% a year on arrearages. and that we should get that payment as low as we can. <P>does anyone know if you can pay extra towards arrearages more than ordered by the courts? and if it is taken directly out of h's check and you send extra directly to court? i would like to pay the arrearages as soon as we can so our only obligation is the current support. we would like to buy a house someday if we can and it will be hard now as it is. my credit is not that great, i am working on paying bills on time etc and hopefully when we are able to buy a house i will have great credit and it can be maybe in my name only.<P>sorry i rambled. i bothered hubby enough today with all this. i have no one else to talk to, my friends are likely bored to hear my financial and marital problems.<P>any advice for me guys?? legal advice? do you think we can still buy a house someday if he has child support to pay?

HG:<P>Eeeew. I guess I am the wrong person (again) to post on this subject because my particular situation is so off the charts...<P>I hestitate a little to tell this because it is so incredible and could scare you but unlikely this could happen to any of you...or maybe it could.<P>First, HG, on dredging up the taboo questions: tell your husband that others do this too. I do. I am notorious for going for days and even weeks without asking a question, making a comment (snide or otherwise), hurling an insult, pointing a finger, flying into a jealous rage or asking painful questions...until...another letter comes from the courts, another threat of garnishment comes in the mail, another summons is presented. When anything, a demand for financial records, proof of employment, insurance or some other intrusive OW/OC reminder invades our life, everything comes rushing back: all the resentment, jealousy, rage, insecurities, all those nasty negative emotions make their presence known. For a few minutes I go on about how much I hate the OW and I wish she were dead and say dreadful things I never ever thought I was capable of saying. I do things I thought I was incapable of doing, i.e. slam doors, throw pillows, crush letters, notices, summons into little balls and fling them against the wall pretending it is the OW's ugly head.<P>I am getting better at this. I still react but not as intensely and I try very hard not to put my husband under the glare of the spotlight and question him like Joe Friday, partially because I know almost everything anyway by now, and also because it hurts my husband...and me. <P>I've ferreted out just about any information there is to know. My point being that it is up to your husband to put up with and endure your questions until you are satisfied with the answers. Phil McGraw says forgiveness and trust cannot be given until the betrayed spouse feels justly compensated. I believe this is true with information-depending of course, on how much information you can take. So, let your husband know this is normal, typical, he owes this information to you until you are satisfied with the answers and that when you feel you have been justly compensated and informed you will lighten up. This will happen, and he must be patient. <P>Tell him you know this is hurtful to him and you will try to keep the questions paced or at a minimum because it is not your intention to beat him up with dredging up these events, but you have a need to know. Tell him there will soon come a day when the letters, demands and threats stop and you'll be able to put these things behind you and move forward. When things are resolved and you are in a routine without outside interference, you will not be reminded or have all kinds of triggers that provoke questions that are so painful for both of you.<P>For the support/court/dna test issues; whatever state you and the OW live in determine what state laws and guidelines you fall under. No one can predict what an irrational court system hell bent on serving the needs of the OW and OC will do. Every state has their own particular brand of law, their own guidelines that they enforce. I'm just glad you got this default reversed.<P>It's anyone's guess what the judge will decide. For some unknown weird reason, the judge in our case hated us on sight and arbitrarily plucked a number out of the air and imposed an unreasonable support amount onto us that would be appropriate support for two or three children. My husband has been summoned once again to appear before the courts on January 22. They expect him to fly to NY to do this and we are requesting a telephone testimony again because we don't have the money to travel.<P>He is being threatened with jail, having his drivers license revoked and his passport revoked and any money he makes will be garnished. He is working just 20 hours a week dues to his illness and his injury, he just filed bankruptcy and we are behind on our mortgage. We've lost our business. They do not believe our plight regardless of the reams of documentation in their possession. They think we are hiding assets and that I 'cooked the books'. I am very shrewd and pretty intelligent but my talents and interests lie in artistic endeavors, English, history, politics. I hate to admit it, but I can barely balance my check book. Numbers elude me, scare me and overwhelm me. I am not putting myself down, because no one is good at everything but I am not smart enough to cook books, hide assets or manipulate numbers.<P>I just realized I crashed your thread and started talking about me, me, me. Sorry.<P>Back to you. Don't worry about what the judge will do. Just prepare. Gather all your financial records and tax returns, write out your budget. If you get the opportunity, tell the judge you want to do the right things but that resources are limited and hopefully you will only be required to pay the going percentage without extras added on. In some states, the Non-custodial doesn't have to start paying until the date the motion was filed; not for the years preceding the motion. Bystander might have some information on this for you.<P>Catnip =^^=