Hi guys,<P> This is something that's been tearing me up for 15 months<P><BR> Ever since d-day, I've had this stark, graphic, big screen surround sound image in my head, of my wife and OM having sex. I try not to think about it, but it's like it has a mind of its' own. It pops into my head at the weirdest times, with no warning. It is so vivid and realistic, its like I'm there watching. I hate it, it makes me want to vomit.<P> <BR> Will it ever go away?<P><BR> God bless you, <BR> <BR> <P>------------------<BR><P>Gregg

gregg,<P>i don't exactly have the same experience, but my problem is that out of the blue i think of the whole OW/OC fiasco and get absolutely sick to my stomach. it pops into my mind at times when i am perfectly happy. it has gotten a little better though i feel bad when it happens because i know my husband is sorry. and then i always think of more questions about them and want to talk to him about it abd it hurts him more to hear me blabber on about it.<P>i am sorry i have no real advice, just that it probably gets better. some nights if i can't get it out of my mind i just recite an our father over and over until i fall asleep, or hail mary, or just "jesus give me peace" or something to that extent.<P>take care gregg. try to erase those graphic videos from your mind. that must be hard.<P>happy_girl

hey gregg, i am going to nursing school! saw you are a nurse anesthetist. that is so cool. i have thought about that as a possible career move way on down the line, if i ever finish nursing school. actually will hopefully start full time in september of 2001 and grad in 2003. just an associates degree though, not a bachelors.<P>any advice for me??

Dear Happy girl,<P> You go girl!! I have to say, there is nothing more gratifying than getting paid to pass gas!!<P><BR> Advice;<P><BR> 1. Get a bachelors degree, most CRNA programs are masters level.<P> 2. Get good grades, score well on nursing boards, The hardest part of anesthesia school is getting in!<P> 3. Get critical care experience, preferably ICU, most schools like to see this.<P> 4. Get to know some Anesthesiologists, get some good references.<P> <BR> 5. If you don't get in your first try, DON'T GIVE UP!!<P> Good luck to you, If I can be of any further help, I'm at glt1054@webtv.net.<P><BR> God bless you, <P>------------------<BR><P>Gregg

Gregg<P>I almost hesitate to reply to this because I don't want to discourage you. However, it's been 27 months since the beginning of the nightmare, 24 months since reconciliation and 18 months since recovery and I still have the IMAX images. The good news is it is no longer every hour on the hour, every waking moment or in my dreams every night. <P>After all this time, it is down to a couple times a week, sometimes fleetingly; sometimes I get whacked hard and sometimes I wake up from a graphic dream (usually after late night pizza) but I can live with it. It does get better, it does get easier and the episodes are fewer and farther between.<P>Unfortunately for me, I can't turn on the TV or listen to the news without some trigger reminding me of the affair. There are three states, three cities, all very prominent, that are mentioned every single day. Commercials, tv shows, documentaries always have a trigger or two. The time of year brings about unpleasant memories. People's names, ages, styles...it goes on.<P>In time, one does become adept at fielding these triggers.<P>We all have such a tendency to build up in our minds the sexual experiences our spouses had with these disgusting OP's. The truth is that the sex probably wasn't nearly as great as it is with us. Great sex takes time to develope. The first few times someone is with someone new, it is often awkward and no soul shaking connection has been developed with that person-which is the main ingredient for great sex.<P>I keep thinking of that line in the Graduate where Dustin Hoffman is explaining to Mrs. Robinson's husband that as far as the sex was concerned he may as well have been shaking her hand.<P>Personally, I just go with the images. If I see them through to the end, next time they seem less intense. But that's my way of dealing with it; I can't say it would work for anyone else. I tend to wallow anyway but I am strong enough to work through it, ask for reassurance and let go of it...until it hits again.<P>Catnip =^^=

I guess I am lucky, since I really have no images in my head. I must be an odd bird. I don't get hung up on dates, anniversaries, pictures in my head, etc. <P>Perhaps a lot of it is due to the fact I do not really know what she looks like. I have never met her. Perhaps if I had then those thoughts would exist. OW is very much like a non-existant person to me, although she works every day with my H. <P>Lynton, I imagine that your familarity with OM assists in this. Since you know him, it would be much easier to "imagine" what was going on. I wish I could share my inability to visualize with you. <P>Take care... Carolyn

Takingcare:<P>I am obsessive by nature and extremely competitive...mirror, mirror on the wall, I MUST be the fairest of them all...<P>Those of us with questionable self image are especially susceptible to obsession and require reassurance that we are better, the best, le creme d' le creme, the whole enchalada, alpha-omega, the 'once in a lifetime', the best thing that ever happened to our spouse, THE soulmate, et al.<P>You are a lucky woman, takingcare, that your demons don't carry a need for self validation.<P>Catnip =^^=

Takingcare and Catnip,<P> How did you guys get so damn smart? You are both right on the money.<BR>I just wish I could turn off my mental VCR like you do, Carolyn.<P> Let me ask you both a question, because I value your opinions; I've read that to begin marrital reconciliation, the WS must be willing to answer all questions regarding the PA, in as much detail as the betrayed spouse needs to know. I guess the intent is to show complete openess and honesty, to show BS that WS trusts him with the truth, and to destroy the veil of secrecy and intimacy surrounding the affair as a jesture of commtmemnt to the BS.<P><BR> What do you guys think?<P><BR> God bless you, <P> <P>------------------<BR><P>Gregg

Gregg,<P>Sorry to butt in and answer the question that you asked Catnip and Takingcare!<P>But, both of your questions hit a nerve with me. <P>My H and I have just finished a round of "when are you going to get over the mental picture". My case seems to be the worst since the image only comes up vividly during intimate times -- not just lovemaking but cuddling in bed. I imagine my H holding and touching the OW just the way he does me. This, understandably, sends me into an immediate depression and I start crying.<P>Poor H - on the other hand - says he feels awful when intimate behaviour leaves me in tears. He feels that I will never get over the A and that our marriage will never be completely repaired, although we are doing very well.<P>Like you, Gregg, I would give anything to turn off the video in my mind, but I have not been able to get control over it.<P>Now, as to your other question about disclosure. My H and I went for counselling and we were told the same thing by our counselor. He said that for me to begin the process of recovery, it was important for me to talk, talk, talk (as the betrayed spouse) and get all of my feelings out. He also said that it was essential that my H answer my questions, no matter how difficult or embarrassing they might be. <P>Unless you get all of the questions and concerns out, you heal with a fair amount of venom left in your system. But, my counsellor stressed two very important points. He told me that no matter how many times I asked my H "Why?" -- Why did you do it? How could you do this to me? There would never be an answer that was acceptable -- so stop asking over and over. Accept that the A happened and it cannot be changed. The reasons why are not nearly as important as where we go from here.<P>His second point was that you should never go so deep into the detail that you begin hurting yourself all over again.<P>I asked a lot of questions, pretty detailed ones. But, there was a point when the questions were hurting me more than the A. My H and I discussed this openly and we agreed that it was better for me not to know every single detail. Even now I sometimes wonder about little things, particularly lies that he told me, but I know that if I go any farther it will be counterproductive to what we are trying to build.<P>This situation doesn't get easier, but I believe that we become better at handling it and at dealing with our emotions. The underlying pain is there, the pain of betrayal, but it loses that open wound feeling that cuts so deep. It becomes like a bad memory that you think of from time to time and then file away.<P>If you get any great ideas for turning off the video images, by all means let me know!<P>- Heavenly

Dear, Dear Heavenly,<P> Butt in any time. I think this is one subject that hits a lot of people hard, and one to which there are no good answers.<P> This sounds silly, but when my wife and I decided to get married, I told her that I truly wished I had remained a virgin until I met her. Lovemaking with her was so intense, so wonderful, such an extension of the love I felt for her, I wished I had saved it for her, only. She told me she felt the same. That is why the vision of her with another man is so painful.<P> I do have to say, the times when my wife met some of my needs( or half way attempted to), I didn't seem to have the visions as often. Maybe a wholehearted attempt on her part would relegate these videos to the archives, where I could sample them on occasion as a reminder to take better care of my marriage.<P> Thanks for listening.<P> God bless you, <P><P>------------------<BR><P>Gregg

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lynton:<BR><B> <P> I've read that to begin marrital reconciliation, the WS must be willing to answer all questions regarding the PA, in as much detail as the betrayed spouse needs to know. I guess the intent is to show complete openess and honesty, to show BS that WS trusts him with the truth, and to destroy the veil of secrecy and intimacy surrounding the affair as a jesture of commtmemnt to the BS.<P><BR> What do you guys think?<P> <BR></B><HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>gregg, i have always wanted to know all the details. mostly because i wanted to get the images i had in my head out of there if they weren't accurate. the truth hurts, but it is much better than what my imagination came up with. i guess maybe because my h's affair was only physical, he was never in love with OW, pure sex. but it still bothered me a lot.<P>just today i was asking all the questions i still think of. did you kiss her? did you this, did you that... the things i imagined were much worse than anything that actually occurred. i think it helped me to have him answer my questions. <P>take care.<P>happy_girl<P>

Happy girl,<P><BR> That's how I feel! The worst part for me is wondering, and then my imagination goes ape-****. My wife still doesn't understand that I would be hurt less by the truth. Not that it wouldn't hurt, but at least the wondering and enless ruminations would end.<P> I sometimes think that my wife doesn't level with me because it hurts her to see me in pain. Or maybe she wants to be free of the guilt.<P><BR> God bless you, <P>------------------<BR><P>Gregg

Gregg: <P>I threw out my opinion on this subject on Happy Girls' thread, but to reiterate a little, the images are probably here to stay, but with time they lessen considerably. They have for me. <P>I get constant reassurance, (the healing balm that makes the images fade) and my husband and I do things I know they never did. <BR>I know they never bathed together, fed each other, had private jokes, I know he never took her finger tips and kissed them or rubbed her feet or tickled her. There are millions of things that are just mine and mine alone. She never went to Carmel with him, he never bought her a diamond bracelet or a car for Christmas (ahhh, those were the days), he never made her English muffins with peanut butter and sang her songs or had pet names for her. He never wrote her a letter or sent her a card, they never sat reminising about their years together because there were no 'years'. He never cuddled with her on the sofa and listened to Prairie Home Companion or laughed themselves sick over Frazier, they had no 'song' or music together, they never saw a movie together, I could go on and on. Hell, she never met his kids or his family or went to any family get togethers. She never saw him cry.<P>The things he did with her couldn't possibly compare with what we had or he wouldn't be here...he'd be with her. I get physically sick when I think of what they did do and the result because it is something I never had nor will I ever have-a child of our own. He tells me over and over again that it wasn't good with them. Whether this is true or not, I don't really know for sure. I can only hope this is true.<P>The point is that the WS will try to protect us from the painful information. Early in our recovery, I aske dmy husband a couple very pointed questions, he answered and I cried. He said, "I can't take it. I can't stand to see your pain and know I am responsible for it. I wish you could get into my head and see that it was nothing, she was nothing." My guess is that this is the way it is for all our spouses.<P>Let's start a thread of special things we know our spouses only did with us.<P>Catnip =^^=<P>PS Hi Heavenly...where ya been?<p>[This message has been edited by catnip (edited December 30, 2000).]

great idea catnip, someone start the thread. i think it will be good therapy for us all. i will post mine tomorrow. <P>happy_girl

Dear late-night-catnip,<P><BR> What a cool idea!! Big Mamma Thornton would be proud.<P><BR> Are you sure you're not a ghost writer. You are way too eloquent!!!<P> And for that reason you should be the one to start the thread!!<P><BR> God bless you,<P><P>------------------<BR><P>Gregg

Again I am breaking in your thread Gregg!<BR>But, I wanted to say "hi" back to Catnip and tell her that I have not been around on a daily basis because I always take the days between Christmas and the New Year off from work to spend with my family. We have been out and about every day - movies, skating, shopping and just generally enjoying being a family.<P>Sometimes when I only have a few minutes, I lurk just to keep up to date on how you are all doing, but I don't have enough time to post. You always have the situation covered Catnip, so my advice is redundant!<P>I am looking forward to posting the special things about my H -- what a great idea!<P>- Heavenly