Hi to everybody. Please forgive me if it takes a while to get all of your names straight. My concentration abilities right now are just about at ground zero. To carrie: I am sure God will be blessing you one thousand times over for making me aware of this place. Please know that I am so very grateful to you. How I wish that I had known about his when the nightmare was going on. <P>Last night after talking to you all, I found the courage for the first time to talk to someone outside of family and legal counsel about the situation. I called a husband and wife who have been friends with us for about a year and explained the situation. Because we are between churches right now and because the church we were attending is between pastors, we really had no one to go to for counseling. The friends have reccommended one of their pastors and are setting us up with a meeting. (We need this now not so much to deal with the affair itself, which we have worked out long ago, but to deal with the issues of child support and visitation, and the issue of ow coming back into our lives as a result. My husband is so guilt-ridden that he is a bit paranoid about my responses to everything. What a change from before when I was the one paranoid about everything he said! he is always afraid that this whole situation will get to be too much for me and that I'll end up leaving him. And then I get mad because if I haven't left yet after all we have been through, it's pretty easy to see that I'm never going to. He is also afraid of what our children will hate him.) The friends are also foster parents who have strong ties with the children and youth protective services in the ow's county, and are going to do some investigating for us as to whether she is unfit, which I strongly suspect could be true. <P>Anyway, this is the first time I have had the nerve to tell anybody outside of our family and our lawyer. I have always been afraid that once somebody found out, they would<BR>1. Forever think my husband is a slimeball, and forget what a wonderful person he is.<BR>2. Secretly pity me for staying with him.<BR>3. Not want to be friends with us anymore.<P>They were so kind and caring, though. It WAS hard starting the whole subject, but the whole Jesse jackson scandal gave me a good opening. At least he's good for that! But during the first few minutes, it was so hard that I couldn't talk without my voice shaking. I am so glad that I did it and got through it. <P>I guess maybe this sounds like an awful lot of fuss over something relatively inconsequential, but it was really a big step for me, and you all gave me the courage to do it just by being there. All this time-for almost four years-I felt as if I was the only person on earth in this situation. The isolation was just horrible.<P>In response to somebody's question: I am 28 years old.<P>A question: How do you keep ow from asking for more cs when your h gets a better job. Everytime my h has gotten a different job, the ow has found out and asked for a review of cs. So every time he tries to make more money so that the cs doesn't affect us as much, he ends up being stuck paying more as a result.<P>My other problem: When the ow orignially agreed to drop cs in return for us dropping custody proceedings we were finally, after 8 years of marriage, able to have me quit working and stay at home to raise our children. And now that she has sued again, I will have to go back to work. So my kids will have to be shipped off to a babysitter so that the ow can suck us dry. And to answer the question of why we paid her legal fees: It was part of the agreement we made in which she would forever drop cs if we would drop custody proceedings. We agreed to pay just to have the whole thing over with. And now the judge will not hold her to her agreement. Apparantly she has no right to sign off on cs because the oc has a right to collect it. This is the same judge tht we made the agreement in front of to begin with! And they try to tell us that they are not biased on the side of the ow. By the way, I know that ow is supposed to stand for"other woman" but when I write it I am thinking "offensive whore." Anybody else?<P>Also: I just found out that if I had sued the ow at the time of the affair or right after it for interfering in a marriage, I may have been able to win enough to offset all of the child support payments my h will be required to make. My case is too old now (four years) but others for whom the situation is just beginning should really look into this. Especially if you have proof that the ow has called and/or written to your h. But make sure there's no proof that he pursued her. How i wished somebody had told me this in the beginning!

cdcollins,<P>I'm pretty sure that this would be a longshot, but could you not only sue for visitation, but primary custody? Is she a fit mother? Is there a reason for social services to be involved?<P>I'm not often fond of aggrevating these types of situations, but she just seems to be acting opportunistically. I'd suggest that you go on the offensive, and make her sorry. And if you would be willing to raise the child, you might really end up doing some good.

Dear K,<BR>Yes I am willing to raise the child, and would be delighted to do, especially if it meant we could be more of a "normal" family than we are now. our lawyer says we will start with visitation and work our way up to custody. We are pretty sure that in time we can prove her unfit. After all she has already told us that previous boyfriends have hit the oc and that the child is having a problem with holding and hiding bowel movements. In some cases, this is known as encopresis, whcih is almost always the result of child abuse, sometimes sexual. She is scummy, comes from a scummy family, and everybody knows it. In fact the first time she had sex with my h it was in her then-boyfriends truck. Motherhood can not have changed her that much. I have made a career out of working with abused, neglected, and delinquent children, so I am able to prove I am well equipped to handle anything that may come up, whereas she is not. Also in our favor, we have been providing volunteer respite care on occasion to specialized foster children, and were recently featured (for something quite different) in Guideposts magazine. so we are very hopeful that in time we could win custody. And not that this should factor in , but would n't it be a splendid feeling to sue her for cs if we do?

cdcollins,<P>First of all congratulations on opening up to some friends. I know what a little relief that must be after four long years of being isolated. I don't know how you did it for so long. I wish you would have had this place to go to then, it wouldn't have helped. But you are here now and that is what is important.<P>I too am 28, sounds like you have been married for a while, I am glad that your marriage is doing so great.<P>As far as the increase in child support I can't believe that your state doesn't have a cap on it. Our state only allows the request every three years. Unless she can prove a huge increase with proof. From what I understand courts don't like to hear from the same people over and over. Can your lawyer do anything about the constant requests for increases? Unless the courts and states stop it I don't know what can be done. <P>I totally understand your anger with the fact that you might have to go back to work. That is where I was, but we just moved and my husband got a different job. So we are ok for another year, than I will have to work. If she goes back to get the increase than we won't be able to pay our bills again. Right now we break even, but if she was able to go to court we wouldn't have enough with the increase on child support. My thinking is that my child should not have to suffer because of this. <P>I am so sorry that you are in this position. My prayers are with you.<P>babstr.

Hi cd,<P>I am so glad you are finding some relief and support, this place is wonderful and I am so glad you have friends to turn to. I hope the counseling works out, we are so blessed with our pastor/counselor. I am also so blessed with my parents, they are the only ones who know the whole story besides our pastor and everyone here. My Dad had a good talk with my H in the beginning, he was so great, he totally stayed in control but reamed him up one side and down the other, then they just kept talking, he listened to my H carefully and told him that it was totally up to him to do everything in his power to make it up to me and our kids, to fix it somehow and to not worry about them (my parents). But he did tell him that if ever came close to happening again that the "troops" would be called in and he would not be responsible for what might happen. Now ever since, they treat my H so well, my Dad and him talk all the time and have a great relationship, better than he ever had with his own Dad. My parents listen to me anytime I have to talk but they are just totally supportive of my decisions and pray a lot, they never pass judgement. I don't know how they do it, I think I might want to kill anyone who hurt either of my daughters so much. I just appreciate them so much. I truly think they want to believe in my H, as I want to.<P>I have a few friends that know of him having the one night stand, but do not know of the possible result. They have also been great and say they really respect my giving him a chance again. They never bring it up either unless I need to talk a little. I would hate it if someone was asking me everyday how things are going.<P>As you know I can't answer any of the questions having to do with cs (or visitation/custody) since it is not an issue now, it scares me to death to read yours and others posts about the problems with this. I fear I am not strong enough to deal with that, I almost can not deal with the betrayal itself and then all of the unknown.<P>Take care and have a great weekend!<P>Carrie

Hi, cd<P>Welcome to the group. I'm so sorry that the common connection that brought us all here is the incredible ordeal we all are going through. Until I found this forum, I felt so alone in my pain and believed that no one could possible understand what I was feeling, but that is not true. Here, if nowhere else, you will find support, compassion, and wisdom.<BR>You will not agree with all posts, nor will all advice apply to your individual situation, but you will gain a perspective and understanding of the OW/OC issue as part of the overall A issue, which I have found to be tremendously helpful.<P>Congratulations on taking some proactive moves. It is so much easier to curl up and just let things happen when we are so overwhelmed emotionally. Even after 2+ years, I still have a tough time asserting myself and handling the business of life, even though I had been a professional career woman for 27 years when I first learned of my H's A.<P>We are also still dealing with support issue and are trying to modify the original support order which was much inflated due to some legal shenanigans by OW and her attorney. Our attorney at the time was inexperienced, niave, and intimidated by the judge and permitted it to happen. Please be VERY wary as you and your H proceed through the legalities of all this. The entire legal system is not at all sympathetic to you nor does it care about your own children. Frankly, the same is true of attorneys, even though most seem very cordial and sympathetic at first. Do not expect ANY consideration for your and your children's position in all of this unless you DEMAND IT and demand it you must.<P>You seem to be a strong young woman who is on the right track, and no, you are not making a fuss over something "inconsequential." What you did in reaching out was very significant. I regret that I did not do more f that two years ago. If I had, our situation would not still be as unresolved as it is. <P>love, <BR>anniem <P>

I think it would be terrific for you to gain custody for this child. But don't do it for the revenge factor. In the end, you're going to be much better off forgiving this poor tortured woman, and letting her live her life. It's important for you to hold true to your core values, and it doesn't seem like you're a mean, petty, spiteful, vindictive woman. Don't let dealing with one reduce you to her level.<P>God bless.

cd, oh I like your meaning for ow I could never really stand refering to these back stabbing slimballs as women. Its sounds like you really know what you want I wish you well It makes me feel bad for oc child just hearing you describe what this so called mother is like. Hope things start going your way. with love flowerseed<P>------------------<BR>`Look ahead or you will find yourself behind.