I have mentioned before how I stopped working to be home with our children right before we got hit with cs again - out of the blue because we had made an agreement with ow tto drop visitation in exchange for her dropping child support. Before this, we had JUST enough money to pay the bills. Now we can't even come close to making it. I can't get a job in my field, which is teaching until the start of next year's school year, and only then if I am lucky enough to get one. Substitute teaching will not make enough that we can afford child care for our children, and although I am teaching adult computer classes at night, that still hardly brings in any money. Any other job I can get in our seriously rural area, again, would not be enough to pay for daycare and make it worthwhile. We are considering filing for bankrupcy. And thinking about applying for food stamps. We are way under state limits for them. i am so angry and embarrassed about being forced into these things by the ow, who is having VERY expensive daycare paid for by my husband in the court order. What he has to pay for her one child is much more than we paid for all three of our children to be babysat last year when I was working full time. Any ideas or anyone who can tell me about their own similar circumstances would be appreciated. I am just sickened at the fact that the state is so concerned about the oc being provided for, when our children are probably going to be eating food bought by food stamps soon. Why should I have the humiliation factor of bankrupcy while she has her expenses paid for and doesn't even have to pay taxes on the money she gets from my h's paycheck? And does anybody know how our present financial situation is going to affect our visitation/custody claim? Should we wait to work on bankrupcy until after the court hearings are over? (Bystander, maybe you know the answer to this?) If we didn't have this money taken out right now we would be managing quite well. things would be tight, but definitely do-able.

<BR>cdcollins,<P>CS is not dischargeable under bankruptcy law, so that bill will have to be paid regardless. It turns out that if your H is going to pay CS, he has every right to assert visitation. Some states reduce CS for more visitation, so you might be able to get more visitation to reduce CS. I am unaware of a court ever disallowing visitation because of financial difficulty per se. In any event, if you're going to go bankrupt there isn't much you can do about it anyway.<P>As for the unfairness of it, I agree completely.<P>Bystander

Dear bystander,<BR>Thanks. I already knew tht the child support is not dischargable. I just wondered if they could use our financial problems against us in considering visitation. One of our arguments is going to be that here we can provide the child with full-time parenting, and I don't want that to be dismissed just because the cs is making things so hard for us. Before we got rehit with cs, we managed quite nicely on my h's salary.

cdcollins,<P>First of all I totally understand. I too quit my job to stay home with our daughter. I knew we would either have a home or we would barely make it. But we both had decided that it was important for me to be with her. <P>Of course we made this decision together with my husband knowing all along that there was a OC. He just blocked it out that it was a reality. So last year he was given papers. So here we were barely making it and now the courts wanted $600 a month. Either we paid them, or we didn't pay our rent, nice choice. So we have had to do major over haul. Yes, right now I am back to breaking even after moving away. But once the OW goes back for her increase we will be back at the same place. <P>If this country doesn't punish people for living in dumps, and not taking care of their children, then they will not punish you for claiming bankruptcy. You have to do what you have to do to take care of your family. Your children need you and love, if that is what you have to do to meet your financial needs then do it. Who cares what other think. I am so sorry that you are having to have to pay for this mistake. You and your children should not have to pay for this. I hope that something works out. I know a lot of people would think you should scrape and suffer rather than do bankruptcy, but I truly feel that your family and children would rather have their mommy at home with them. It sounds as if you would have to work multiple jobs, and you working like that would be hard on everyone. I know when I was being faced with having to find a job at night so that we wouldn't have to pay chidcare, I knew that might break me. I could work, but I can't work for that reason. I told my husband he would have to find a way to make up the difference. Either work a second job, or as we did he found a different job, totally different field, he left the military, and now works for a corporate company. I am sending you hopes and prayers for an answer.<P>babstr.

Dear Babster:<BR>I'm so happy you wrote. I enjoy hearing from you so much because we are so similar in age and because you share my feelings on so often. Too bad that you do not live next door. I know that I shouldn't care what everybody thinks of us if we declare bankrupcy, but I just hate so bad to screw other people that we owe money to just because we have to pay through the nose to this ow. I think we will probably end up filing bankrupcy, because right now my other alternative is to take a crappy night job making crappy money and living a crappy life. And I just will not do it. I was working a night job as a dipatcher for a security company when this A first started, and I even though I know my H will not cheat again, I cannot be away at night and retain any sort of peace of mind. Right now my emotional state is all screwed up anyway. We were watching MAD TV on Saturday night and they did a reall horrid music video spoof of Jesse jackson apologizing to his wife. It was so much of a knife twist in the wound that it hit me wrong and I laughed hysterically for literally hours. I know that I am all keyed up about the visitation hearing that's coming up. Even though I can go the route of visitation/custody I keep praying and praying that ow's boyfriend will pull through at the last moment and marry her and adopt oc. How unrealistic is that? My h was the only one ever dopey enough to do her without protection. I also was watching "Strangers On A Train" and spent several hours enthusiastically planning how we all could "eliminate" each other's ow. (I am just kidding about that, in case any one gets the idea that I'm serious.) And then there is "Look Who's Talking", the untimate "feel sorry for the poor baby of the mother who slept with a married man and now doesn't have a daddy" movie. I know I'm rambling, but this subject just seems to be hitting me left and right lately. Anyway, maybe it would be best for us in the end to be rid of these money worries. I am so very weary of it all. Anyway, Babster, thank you for the reassurance. I guess I really needed somebody to tell me it is OK to make this decision. It's not at all something I would ever do under other circumstances. We are just backed up against the wall here. I am so tired of living in fear because of her.

Dear CD (hi Babstr)<P>Yesterday, I went to bankruptcy court and filed chapter 7 on our corporation. Last month my husband filed and next week I have to file because I am the majority shareholder and the debt automatically filters down to me. I know what you mean about leaving the vendors holding the (empty) bag. Here we owe them money I can never repay because of our 'special' circumstances and the extraordinary amounts of money this has cost us already.<P>While I don't care what outsiders think, I do care what my creditors think. Not because of credit ratings but because most of these people we know pretty well in our industry and they are hardworking people who did business with us in good faith and will not get paid. This is extremely upsetting to both of us. But, we were forced to close the doors and there was nothing we could do about it. The bank took control of the assets. That's it.<P>That's the bad news. The good news is that we have a clean slate. We are working with the NY court to have the support reduced and arrears adjusted accordingly. We sent them reams of documentation and copies of everything to prove that what we told them last year was true. They didn't believe us a year ago, but they are beginning to believe us now.<P>We are making huge changes in our lives. We're simplifying and going back to basics and getting rid of the 'fluff' in our lives...all the unnecessary stuff that begins to own you after a while. We even got a divorce so OW couldn't attach herself to our house or tax refunds as it was my money that bought the house.<P>If we were not taking drastic steps to 'downsize', my husband would have to take a second job to satisfy the courts appetite for unrealistic income shares. He did it, it is his responsibility to fix it. Even if it means he works 60 hours a week. <P>You have small children who need their Mom. One of the biggest things I regret the most in my life was working when my son was a baby and a toddler. The babysitter raised him, found his first tooth, heard his first word and saw him take his first steps. If I had it to do over again knowing then what I know now, I would have stayed at home and done with less to be there for him. He turned out fine, but I know he would have been better if I would have been there. More secure and self assured and maybe more well-rounded!<P>Apparantly I have once again succumbed to rambling. But if the OW's achilles heel is you and your husband getting either huge visitation or custody, joint or otherwise, if you can stand to be around the kid and treat it well and give it love and nuture it, then I would certainly go for it. Personally, I couldn't be in the same room with it, but I know there are many here who can and would and they have wonderful huge loving giving hearts.<P>Drastic siituations call for drastic action. Do what you must to secure your own and let the rest fall away.<P>Catnip =^^=

Dear Catnip<BR>I, like everyone else here, am always grateful to read your wonderful responses. Thank you so much for your reply. I do feel just terrible about screwing other people financially, but I'm trying to think of it as ow that ishurting them instead of me. Because really it is her actions and decisions that are behind this, not mine. I don't think she will ever have a clue about how many people she is hurting by this. It's like the domino-effect, you know?<P>Can you tell me if filing for bankrupcy means that the whole world has to know, or is it mostly just your creditors who find out? I really would prefer not to tell some of our family and friends. It would involve such a long explanation, and some of them don't know about our situation to begin with. And I feel like I would have to give the whole story so that we didn't just look like scummy losers sticking the other guy with the bill. Please write again.<BR>Thanks, -cd

It's weird, cd, but I have developed an "I don't give a poop" attitude that serves me well. There's a lot of freedom in that. I no longer care what other people think. In fact, I am sure they have hidden 'skeletons' that are just as ominous as mine but they are not so obvious or blatant.<P>I have no idea of when or where my financial obits will be published and I careth not. I never read them myself so I have probably missed the bankruptcy announcement of the Prom Queen and High School Quarterback at my high school.<P>We all have our day in the sun, our successes, our tragedies and our embarrassments. I try not to let the later effect me too much. One thing I have noticed is that most people have a short memory and unless you are in the public eye and famous, most people forget in a few months that you ever had any trouble at all. And, blessedly, most people are so self absorbed, no one really spends a lot of time thinking about my drama in the scheme of things. Simply a hiccup, a blip, on the big screen of life.<P>Try to ignore the fallout as best you can and remember that a year from now, no one will remember your fiscal downturn. In the meantime, keep your chin up and be proud of the strength you have displayed in all other areas of your life.<P>Catnip =^^=

<BR>catnip, cd,<P>Years ago bankruptcy reflected poorly on the moral character of the person. Its certainly true that we've "defined down" deviance to an extent, so I don't think it carries the stigma it once did. But in your cases, its not something that's your fault. The behavior that led to the bankruptcy was committed by your spouse, and you suffered the economic damage. You shouldn't let it bother you. JMO.<P>Bystander